Is it wrong for people who work with children to smoke?

[Tasha]

I have worked in various nurseries, all accepting from three months old, and I would say 95% of the people I worked with smoked on their breaks. It use to really bother me as it would linger on their clothes, hands (even after washing) etc.

I know someone who is a children's nurse looking after vvery sick children (think menigitis, bone marrow transplants and the like) and many of their collegues as well as those who are working on PICU or NICU go and smoke on their lunch break, and in their uniform.

My son lectures people if they light up near him, it isnt something I taught him to do but since he learnt about smoking and its dangers, he will ask them if they know it is a drug and tell them what it does to their body. Twice now that happened when we have been standing in a bus shelter and someone came and stood next to him and lit up.

 

[steph.]

I have worked in various nurseries, all accepting from three months old, and I would say 95% of the people I worked with smoked on their breaks. It use to really bother me as it would linger on their clothes, hands (even after washing) etc.

I know someone who is a children's nurse looking after vvery sick children (think menigitis, bone marrow transplants and the like) and many of their collegues as well as those who are working on PICU or NICU go and smoke on their lunch break, and in their uniform.

My son lectures people if they light up near him, it isnt something I taught him to do but since he learnt about smoking and its dangers, he will ask them if they know it is a drug and tell them what it does to their body. Twice now that happened when we have been standing in a bus shelter and someone came and stood next to him and lit up.

Good for him standing up for himself! I hate having to breathe in other people's smoke anyway, but the people that light up near babies, children and pregnant women really get under my skin! I would have loved to see the people's faces when he told them that

 

[holly2234]

I dont think its wrong. They are still people in their own right and have lives outside of work.

However, i dont like it and dont smoke either. But if a health professional etc comes near me that smells of smoke (never happened yet) then i would send them away if i was unhappy and find another one. We have the right to choose, so if you are not happy, make that choice.

I didnt like the midwife i had when Erin was born (not smoke related). She just had an attitude problem so i told the midwife in charge and got a different one.

 

[PepsiChic]

I dont think its wrong. They are still people in their own right and have lives outside of work.

However, i dont like it and dont smoke either. But if a health professional etc comes near me that smells of smoke (never happened yet) then i would send them away if i was unhappy and find another one. We have the right to choose, so if you are not happy, make that choice.

I didnt like the midwife i had when Erin was born (not smoke related). She just had an attitude problem so i told the midwife in charge and got a different one.

And thats great in the UK with the NHS and all...but here if you have Insurance or Medicaid you can only go to certain doctors/hospitals/dentists etc

So we DONT always have a choice.

 

[summer rain]

With the midwife shortage in the UK you'd be hard pressed to get them to find you another midwife here either; when I had my youngest it was in a small unit but there were only two midwives on duty both of which were attending to me in rotation. One of them was a right cow but there was no way I could say I only wanted the other one checking in on me xx

 

[elt1013]

Interesting debate...As long as people aren't smoking around your children, then it is really none of your business what they do on their own time. It is the parents responsibilty to stay away from people who smoke and places that are smoked in if they wish. Despite what some may like to believe, there is NO scientific proof that thirdhand smoke causes any illnesses and/or death! And actually, the scientific proof shows that the levels of carcinogens and chemicals left from third hand smoke are so miniscule that they are likely no more harmful than the low levels of arsenic, lead, mercury, nitrous acid, carbon monoxide, asbestos and the thousands of other chemicals and harmful things we encounter in everyday life (that means in our food, houses, cars, the air, dirt from the floor our children crawl in, etc). These "studies" always conveniently fail to mention these important facts though. Bottom line: People always want to be "the one" to discover the next big health scare that is going to kill us all!

 

[elephant29]

I dont think it is wrong. I appreciate some people may not like it or agree with it but this doesnt make it wrong.

Almost all of the jobs mentioned where people smoke on their breaks such as Dr's, nurses etc are all very demanding and tough jobs. If someone is a smoker they will be hard pushed to get through a 12 hour shift of hard hard graft without being able to go out for the odd smoke for fear that people think they are wrong because they work with children.

I work with kids and I do go and smoke on my break (when not on mat leave). Our job is hard and it can be physically and emotionally draining with verbal abuse as well as physical taking place often. Being able to go out and take 5 minutes, outside not beside anyone, means I can cope a little better with what the night throws at me. Might not be right but it isnt wrong either.

 

[steph.]

I dont think it is wrong. I appreciate some people may not like it or agree with it but this doesnt make it wrong.

Almost all of the jobs mentioned where people smoke on their breaks such as Dr's, nurses etc are all very demanding and tough jobs. If someone is a smoker they will be hard pushed to get through a 12 hour shift of hard hard graft without being able to go out for the odd smoke for fear that people think they are wrong because they work with children.

I work with kids and I do go and smoke on my break (when not on mat leave). Our job is hard and it can be physically and emotionally draining with verbal abuse as well as physical taking place often. Being able to go out and take 5 minutes, outside not beside anyone, means I can cope a little better with what the night throws at me. Might not be right but it isnt wrong either.

I agree from personal experience that the jobs or nurses and doctors can be really tough. Before i had lo i was an ER dr and had some 12hr shifts where i didnt get a break, feared for my personal safety, was physically and emotionally exhausted so i totally get that sometimes you need a time out. I'm not a smoker but i can understand those who are might need to go out and smoke. HOWEVER when you are working with little babies in NICU for example who are so so fragile i dont think its fair to expose them to the smoke that will cling to your uniform/hands/hair. The risk to them is probably minimal but if it were my child no risk would be small enough.

 

[KittyVentura]

Yes wrong. Unless they wash and change clothes after their last smoke before work and do not have anther til they are home again. However given that smoking is addictive and most I know that smoke struggle to even go a few hrs in between I imagine this would be unlikely so therefore I've voted yes. Smoke. And the harmful toxins cling to your clothes and you still breathe them out for a long while after smoking so if smoking in a break etc, no matter how many times you wash your hands, you are still risking bringing those toxins around children. Xx

 

[LoraLoo]

Interesting debate...As long as people aren't smoking around your children, then it is really none of your business what they do on their own time. It is the parents responsibilty to stay away from people who smoke and places that are smoked in if they wish. Despite what some may like to believe, there is NO scientific proof that thirdhand smoke causes any illnesses and/or death! And actually, the scientific proof shows that the levels of carcinogens and chemicals left from third hand smoke are so miniscule that they are likely no more harmful than the low levels of arsenic, lead, mercury, nitrous acid, carbon monoxide, asbestos and the thousands of other chemicals and harmful things we encounter in everyday life (that means in our food, houses, cars, the air, dirt from the floor our children crawl in, etc). These "studies" always conveniently fail to mention these important facts though. Bottom line: People always want to be "the one" to discover the next big health scare that is going to kill us all!

I don't get your argument. If there was Carbon Monoxide leaking into your babys room you would say thats ok because its only in low levels and not something you could have prevented? No, my guess you'd have your baby out their in a flash because it would harm your baby, same with the other examples you gave.

 

[Liesje]

Interesting debate...As long as people aren't smoking around your children, then it is really none of your business what they do on their own time. It is the parents responsibilty to stay away from people who smoke and places that are smoked in if they wish. Despite what some may like to believe, there is NO scientific proof that thirdhand smoke causes any illnesses and/or death! And actually, the scientific proof shows that the levels of carcinogens and chemicals left from third hand smoke are so miniscule that they are likely no more harmful than the low levels of arsenic, lead, mercury, nitrous acid, carbon monoxide, asbestos and the thousands of other chemicals and harmful things we encounter in everyday life (that means in our food, houses, cars, the air, dirt from the floor our children crawl in, etc). These "studies" always conveniently fail to mention these important facts though. Bottom line: People always want to be "the one" to discover the next big health scare that is going to kill us all!

I don't get your argument. If there was Carbon Monoxide leaking into your babys room you would say thats ok because its only in low levels and not something you could have prevented? No, my guess you'd have your baby out their in a flash because it would harm your baby, same with the other examples you gave.

Since you asked... My house does have low levels of carbon monoxide leaking in during rush hour... We live in the city and have very sensitive carbon monoxide detectors which provide a reading. I told my doctor how many ppm we get during the day and she said it was fine, in fact it's usually present no matter where you are. Again, not suggesting these things are good for us, but if we go searching for toxins and people to hate and blame, they're always easy to find.

 

[elt1013]

Interesting debate...As long as people aren't smoking around your children, then it is really none of your business what they do on their own time. It is the parents responsibilty to stay away from people who smoke and places that are smoked in if they wish. Despite what some may like to believe, there is NO scientific proof that thirdhand smoke causes any illnesses and/or death! And actually, the scientific proof shows that the levels of carcinogens and chemicals left from third hand smoke are so miniscule that they are likely no more harmful than the low levels of arsenic, lead, mercury, nitrous acid, carbon monoxide, asbestos and the thousands of other chemicals and harmful things we encounter in everyday life (that means in our food, houses, cars, the air, dirt from the floor our children crawl in, etc). These "studies" always conveniently fail to mention these important facts though. Bottom line: People always want to be "the one" to discover the next big health scare that is going to kill us all!

I don't get your argument. If there was Carbon Monoxide leaking into your babys room you would say thats ok because its only in low levels and not something you could have prevented? No, my guess you'd have your baby out their in a flash because it would harm your baby, same with the other examples you gave.

My point is that there are low levels of carbon monoxide among many other things in all of our houses (as Liesje said) all of the time! So, no I wouldn't get my baby out in a flash. Where would you suggest I take the baby where there are no toxins present? Shall I take the baby outside where there are exhaust fumes and radiation in the air, and arsenic and lead in the dirt (again, among 1000's of other toxins all around us). I am not trying to be rude and am just stating facts. You may want to do some research on this and while you are at it...look at the products we use in everyday life also. (shampoo, soap, cleaners, cups, plates, baby bottles, baby binkies, food, clothing, blankets, mattresses, cell phones, motor vehicles, gasoline, carpet, appliances, etc.)

 

[freckleonear]

My point is that there are low levels of carbon monoxide among many other things in all of our houses (as Liesje said) all of the time! So, no I wouldn't get my baby out in a flash. Where would you suggest I take the baby where there are no toxins present? Shall I take the baby outside where there are exhaust fumes and radiation in the air, and arsenic and lead in the dirt (again, among 1000's of other toxins all around us). I am not trying to be rude and am just stating facts. You may want to do some research on this and while you are at it...look at the products we use in everyday life also. (shampoo, soap, cleaners, cups, plates, baby bottles, baby binkies, food, clothing, blankets, mattresses, cell phones, motor vehicles, gasoline, carpet, appliances, etc.)

I guess it depends on your attitude to these things. My first degree was in medical biosciences and I learnt enough about toxins to scare me for life. Therefore I already avoid toiletries, cleaning products, plastics, processed foods, memory foam, etc. as much as possible. I don't just give up trying to protect my children because there are already so many harmful chemicals and toxins out there. I protect them from whatever I can, one thing at a time, depending on how dangerous the substance is and how practical it is to avoid it. Third hand smoke is both dangerous and avoidable in my opinion, unlike trying to make the entire world stop using motor vehicles.

 

[LoraLoo]

My point is that there are low levels of carbon monoxide among many other things in all of our houses (as Liesje said) all of the time! So, no I wouldn't get my baby out in a flash. Where would you suggest I take the baby where there are no toxins present? Shall I take the baby outside where there are exhaust fumes and radiation in the air, and arsenic and lead in the dirt (again, among 1000's of other toxins all around us). I am not trying to be rude and am just stating facts. You may want to do some research on this and while you are at it...look at the products we use in everyday life also. (shampoo, soap, cleaners, cups, plates, baby bottles, baby binkies, food, clothing, blankets, mattresses, cell phones, motor vehicles, gasoline, carpet, appliances, etc.)

I guess it depends on your attitude to these things. My first degree was in medical biosciences and I learnt enough about toxins to scare me for life. Therefore I already avoid toiletries, cleaning products, plastics, processed foods, memory foam, etc. as much as possible. I don't just give up trying to protect my children because there are already so many harmful chemicals and toxins out there. I protect them from whatever I can, one thing at a time, depending on how dangerous the substance is and how practical it is to avoid it. Third hand smoke is both dangerous and avoidable in my opinion, unlike trying to make the entire world stop using motor vehicles.

Wont bother replying to above posts as you have put it better than i could

 

[elt1013]

My point is that these things exist and no matter how many precausions we take to avoid them, there are still going to be toxins in the world. I also do the best I can to protect mine, but I do not agree that third hand smoke is completely avoidable. If it was then would this topic even be an issue? You can do your best to keep smokers away from your kids, but there are many many people who smoke and also work with children (doctors, nurses, teachers, bus drivers, school cafeteria workers, childcare workers) and probably more than you are even aware of as I am sure most of them do not offer up this information. People are going to smoke and your children are going to come into contact with them at some point, because it is unavoidable.

 

[Liesje]

My point is that these things exist and no matter how many precausions we take to avoid them, there are still going to be toxins in the world. I also do the best I can to protect mine, but I do not agree that third hand smoke is completely avoidable. If it was then would this topic even be an issue? You can do your best to keep smokers away from your kids, but there are many many people who smoke and also work with children (doctors, nurses, teachers, bus drivers, school cafeteria workers, childcare workers) and probably more than you are even aware of as I am sure most of them do not offer up this information. People are going to smoke and your children are going to come into contact with them at some point, because it is unavoidable.

I think exposing our kids to this in small doses is for the greater good for future generations lol
My dad's family is from a line of chain smoking miners, my mom's family a line of chain smoking doctors and surgeons, everyone is freakishly immune to any type of cancer and extremely fertile (6 out of 7 of her sisters accidentally had babies in their late 40's, early 50's )
I know none of this is scientific evidence, but I'd rather live a short, comfortable, relaxed life than a long, torturous one living in fear of shampoo, no matter how valid it is.
If it's the difference between purchasing glass or plastic, I choose glass but I draw the line at sniffing my kid's pediatrician. I have enough problems trying to detect airborne antibiotic resistant bacteria, not a trace toxin which may increase the chance of thinking about possibly contributing to an increased risk to illnesses linked to whatever it is I should be worried about this week.

 

[elt1013]

My point is that these things exist and no matter how many precausions we take to avoid them, there are still going to be toxins in the world. I also do the best I can to protect mine, but I do not agree that third hand smoke is completely avoidable. If it was then would this topic even be an issue? You can do your best to keep smokers away from your kids, but there are many many people who smoke and also work with children (doctors, nurses, teachers, bus drivers, school cafeteria workers, childcare workers) and probably more than you are even aware of as I am sure most of them do not offer up this information. People are going to smoke and your children are going to come into contact with them at some point, because it is unavoidable.

I think exposing our kids to this in small doses is for the greater good for future generations lol
My dad's family is from a line of chain smoking miners, my mom's family a line of chain smoking doctors and surgeons, everyone is freakishly immune to any type of cancer and extremely fertile (6 out of 7 of her sisters accidentally had babies in their late 40's, early 50's )
I know none of this is scientific evidence, but I'd rather live a short, comfortable, relaxed life than a long, torturous one living in fear of shampoo, no matter how valid it is.
If it's the difference between purchasing glass or plastic, I choose glass but I draw the line at sniffing my kid's pediatrician. I have enough problems trying to detect airborne antibiotic resistant bacteria, not a trace toxin which may increase the chance of thinking about possibly contributing to an increased risk to illnesses linked to whatever it is I should be worried about this week.

I completely agree...I would rather live comfortably and as worry free as possible than be in constant concern about every little thing that my family may come in contact with, not to mention the possibility of causing my kids unneccesary worry about these things aswell. In my experience (and I am not saying this is everyone), the kids I know with parents who keep them away from everything possibly harmful are the ones that tend to be most sickly. We need these things to exist to come in contact with, like you said, in small doses to build somewhat of an immunity. And I also agree about the bacteria comment...we have created the "superbugs" issue for ourselves because of the overuse of antibiotics for every little sniffle our kids get, which are far more dangerous and deadly than third hand smoke.

 

[omfgski]

.

 

[elt1013]

My point is that these things exist and no matter how many precausions we take to avoid them, there are still going to be toxins in the world. I also do the best I can to protect mine, but I do not agree that third hand smoke is completely avoidable. If it was then would this topic even be an issue? You can do your best to keep smokers away from your kids, but there are many many people who smoke and also work with children (doctors, nurses, teachers, bus drivers, school cafeteria workers, childcare workers) and probably more than you are even aware of as I am sure most of them do not offer up this information. People are going to smoke and your children are going to come into contact with them at some point, because it is unavoidable.

I think exposing our kids to this in small doses is for the greater good for future generations lol
My dad's family is from a line of chain smoking miners, my mom's family a line of chain smoking doctors and surgeons, everyone is freakishly immune to any type of cancer and extremely fertile (6 out of 7 of her sisters accidentally had babies in their late 40's, early 50's )
I know none of this is scientific evidence, but I'd rather live a short, comfortable, relaxed life than a long, torturous one living in fear of shampoo, no matter how valid it is.
If it's the difference between purchasing glass or plastic, I choose glass but I draw the line at sniffing my kid's pediatrician. I have enough problems trying to detect airborne antibiotic resistant bacteria, not a trace toxin which may increase the chance of thinking about possibly contributing to an increased risk to illnesses linked to whatever it is I should be worried about this week.

To be fair, with some of these smokers who work with children, you don't have to sniff them to know that they smoke. The inspiration for this thread was a midwife I had who absolutely stank of smoke and you could smell her just by breathing in.

I think it is wrong for someone who works with children to smoke, especially on shift. My friend was in labour and her midwife left for a ten minute break and when she came back, stank so strongly of smoke that her OH requested a different midwife. It's not right imo for someone to do that on shift and to expect to come back in and deliver a newborn with that smell and potential toxins stuck to her.

Nursery workers who smoke concern me too. I worked at a nursery where the smokers were allowed to go out on their break and smoke and then come back in and breathe all over and touch the children. They were allowed to do this in uniform. Slightly differently, the preschool where a family member works, they are allowed to smoke on their lunch break but not in uniform and have to go right off the school property.

I don't think it's right that someone else's life decision (i.e. choice to smoke) could potentially impact on my child's health. I agree that at some point our children will have to come into contact with smokers but it certainly shouldn't be on the hospital ward when they are brand new to the world or when they are being cared for in a childcare setting.

It is probably the best thing to request a midwife or doctor who doesn't smoke or doesn't take smoke breaks if you don't agree with it, or are concerned about it. I suppose that would be your right to ask or request when looking for a doctor, hospital, school or daycare. I don't know that they would be willing to fully accomidate this request, since people are allowed breaks to do with what they wish while at work, but you sure could ask.

I know alot of places are now restriciting smoking to only in their vehicles which is only going to backfire aswell, because nothing is worse than sitting in a small, confined area and pretty much bogging it out, and then going back into work. Atleast an outside designated smoking area away from people would give it somewhere else to go but all over their clothing and hair.

There are alot of things people do that I don't necessarily agree with either but I would never think that I should be able to tell them what they can do on their own time. If I didn't like what was going on where my kid was, I would let the place know and take them somewhere else. Just my opinion...

 

[Sarahkka]

My point is that these things exist and no matter how many precausions we take to avoid them, there are still going to be toxins in the world. I also do the best I can to protect mine, but I do not agree that third hand smoke is completely avoidable. If it was then would this topic even be an issue? You can do your best to keep smokers away from your kids, but there are many many people who smoke and also work with children (doctors, nurses, teachers, bus drivers, school cafeteria workers, childcare workers) and probably more than you are even aware of as I am sure most of them do not offer up this information. People are going to smoke and your children are going to come into contact with them at some point, because it is unavoidable.

I think exposing our kids to this in small doses is for the greater good for future generations lol
My dad's family is from a line of chain smoking miners, my mom's family a line of chain smoking doctors and surgeons, everyone is freakishly immune to any type of cancer and extremely fertile (6 out of 7 of her sisters accidentally had babies in their late 40's, early 50's )
I know none of this is scientific evidence, but I'd rather live a short, comfortable, relaxed life than a long, torturous one living in fear of shampoo, no matter how valid it is.
If it's the difference between purchasing glass or plastic, I choose glass but I draw the line at sniffing my kid's pediatrician. I have enough problems trying to detect airborne antibiotic resistant bacteria, not a trace toxin which may increase the chance of thinking about possibly contributing to an increased risk to illnesses linked to whatever it is I should be worried about this week.

I completely agree...I would rather live comfortably and as worry free as possible than be in constant concern about every little thing that my family may come in contact with, not to mention the possibility of causing my kids unneccesary worry about these things aswell. In my experience (and I am not saying this is everyone), the kids I know with parents who keep them away from everything possibly harmful are the ones that tend to be most sickly. We need these things to exist to come in contact with, like you said, in small doses to build somewhat of an immunity. And I also agree about the bacteria comment...we have created the "superbugs" issue for ourselves because of the overuse of antibiotics for every little sniffle our kids get, which are far more dangerous and deadly than third hand smoke.

Bacteria and virus exposure, and their subsequent effect on immunity, are completely different health issues from the effects of bioaccumulation: micro-doses of particles that build up over time in tissue until they do reach toxic levels. You don't "build an immunity" from toxic chemicals. Most of them (depending on which class of chemicals we are talking about) are bioaccumulative, so it makes sense to limit our exposure to them as much as possible. Thirdhand smoke is a proven source of these and a source that is much easier to control than the amount of traffic exhaust our kids are exposed to. I am like freckleonear in that I do educate myself on multiple sources of exposure, evaluate the risk, and adjust my behaviour accordingly as much as is possible.
As for the idea that overprotecting your kids from exposure can result in a weaker immune system, well, yes, if you are talking bacteria and viruses. I agree that science is now strongly suggesting that our kids are not encountering enough microbes in their daily lives and that the result has been a significant increase in allergies and asthma, but the question of how much of a contributing factor household toxins are in this situation has not been determined. I definitely don't think that scrubbing your house down with organochloride-based chemicals to achieve sterile living conditions is at all a good idea, personally. In fact, I like to let my kids live in a little filth!