Is this discrimination or fare enough?

[smokey]

A friend of OH is having her hen do soon and one of her guests is her gay best friend.
They where going to hire a stripper for a laugh but where told by the company that they wouldn't supply a stripper because one of the guests was a gay man and it was against their policy to supply entertainment for a gay audience (or words to that effect)

I find this really odd, first off doesn't that come under discrimination or is this one of those managers right to refuse service type things?
Secondly whats the difference to a male stripper dancing for a female audience and a gay one? at the end of the day as long as no one is touching and everything is above board then what difference is one gay man out of a audience of females ( I have seen females watching strippers they are mad and one guy is going to be mostly drowned out by them)
I understand maybe a individual dancer may have a personal preference to dance for only a certain sex audience but a whole company policy just seems a bit odd.

So is it discrimination? does it really make a difference a one off gay man in a audience if your not expected to physicaly interact with a audience or individual?

 

[kit10grl]

Hmm tough one.

My first instinct would be to say that it is discrimination because they are refusing to serve him based purely on his sexuality and that's illegal.

However, a stripper even though there isn't any touching, is essentially supplying a sex based service so different rules might apply.

As you mentioned in most private businesses managers have the right to refuse service for reasons they deem fit. ie a bar not selling alcohol to someone they say is too drunk, or a supermarket asking someone to leave as they suspect they are shoplifting. (Although they usually call it 'disagreeing with the customers shopping practices' so they aren't outright accusing anyone of anything)

So its possible its written as a policy that they reserve the right to provide same sex strippers to gay audiences. Again not sure if this is entirely legal or if different rules apply to the sex entertainment industry.

And I could totally understand why a male stripper would be uncomfortable with a male audience. And it would be his right to not be in a situation where he is feeling that way during his work. It could be that even if there aren't different rules for the sex industry regarding the audience discrimination, the protection of the employee might supersede the protection of the customers rights. So they might be covered that way.

Its possible that it is company policy as its something they would need to discuss while hiring strippers. A contract would need to be in place to establish what they are comfortable with and what is expected of them. If its written in the contracts that they aren't required to perform in front of same sex audiences then the business would be allowed to do this I think.

As to would it make a difference? Yes it probably would. It reminds me of a thread I read here once about male midwives and how a lot of women wouldn't want a male in place when they felt so vulnerable. I would say its the same, I dont know many men who would be comfortable being completely naked in front of other men. Particularly as you mentioned when stripper audiences tend to be quite OTT.

 

[Foogirl]

Its not discrimination as there is a very good argument that the stripper has to be comfortable in his work and if he does not want to strip in front of another man then he should not be forced to do so. As a private business they are quite within their rights to decide who they provide services too.

I think they would be totally wrong if they were to deny services to any other group e.g race, religion, disability, but their business is to provide male strippers for a female audience so I doubt it could be considered discrimination.

I wonder whether a gay stripper service would have the same exclusion when offering services?

 

[Glitter_berry]

It may not be "discrimination." ( it is) but it is pure ignorance and homophobia.

Not every gay man is attracted to every man in the world like not every woman is attracted to every man in the world.

Would they not hire a gay stripper?

Wrong wrong wrong.

 

[lhancock90]

It may not be "discrimination." ( it is) but it is pure ignorance and homophobia.

Not every gay man is attracted to every man in the world like not every woman is attracted to every man in the world.

Would they not hire a gay stripper?

Wrong wrong wrong.

Yeah i agree with this. It seems completely ridiculous. Especially as in the first post it was because he was a "gay man"

 

[mum22ttc#3]

Although I do think it is a tough one I do tend To agree with Foogirl.

I think it is probably in place to protect their strippers. Although I'm not disagreeing that it may be a little ignorant it would also be wrong to expect a stripper to strip in front of an audience in which he isn't comfortable.

I would also be interested to see if the guidelines/rules were the same if it was a gay strippers service.

 

[Glitter_berry]

I don't get it? The people aren't allowed to touch anyway.

How is it any different if they said I don't feel comfortable infront of blacks or fat chicks.

It's ignorant and discriminatory.

All their customers are doing is looking so what's it matter who is looking at you.
If you're taking your clothes off for money you aren't really in any moral position to be all high and mighty about it. ? ( I don't mean that as rude as it sounds, like you there take you're clothes off and dance go in shame. I mean I don't get why it's an issue, if it is maybe choose a different career path instead of having such vilifying views )

You couldn't refuse to serve someone in a store because they are gay. Discrimination is discrimination.

 

[xemmax]

Its not discrimination as there is a very good argument that the stripper has to be comfortable in his work and if he does not want to strip in front of another man then he should not be forced to do so. As a private business they are quite within their rights to decide who they provide services too.

I think they would be totally wrong if they were to deny services to any other group e.g race, religion, disability, but their business is to provide male strippers for a female audience so I doubt it could be considered discrimination.

I wonder whether a gay stripper service would have the same exclusion when offering services?

I was under the impression that even private business owners cannot refuse service on the grounds of the customer belonging to a particular demographic, including sexual orientation.

I think it's similar to the case of the gay couple who were refused a double room in a bed and breakfast, where it was ruled that they were the victims of discrimination.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19991266

 

[kit10grl]

I don't get it? The people aren't allowed to touch anyway.

How is it any different if they said I don't feel comfortable infront of blacks or fat chicks.

It's ignorant and discriminatory.

All their customers are doing is looking so what's it matter who is looking at you.
If you're taking your clothes off for money you aren't really in any moral position to be all high and mighty about it. ? ( I don't mean that as rude as it sounds, like you there take you're clothes off and dance go in shame. I mean I don't get why it's an issue, if it is maybe choose a different career path instead of having such vilifying views )

You couldn't refuse to serve someone in a store because they are gay. Discrimination is discrimination.

Being black or fat isn't about sexuality though, neither is being served in a store. This is a sex based service so if the audience make the stripper feel sexually uncomfortable then its his (or her ) right to refuse. I'm sure it could probably fall under sexual harassment at work laws somehow.



ETA : and all strippers have different comfort levels not all strippers who dance on a table or bar would necessarily do a lap dance for example. Just because they take their clothes off for a living doesn't mean they give up their right to be comfortable at work. Nothing to do with morals its a legal right same as any other workplace

 

[Glitter_berry]

But it's NOT RIGHT and illegal to discriminate against some one because of their sexuality.

They singled one person out. It wasn't a group of "gays" it was a hens do. It wasn't even for that guy.

So stupid someone's sexuality doesn't make them some kind of preditor to be uncomfortable around.

It's like when we were hiring a Santa for one if my DDs groups and someone had an objection because he was gay. Did I organise a new Santa. No I told them to stfu or not come to the event because their "concerns" abd reason on why we should cancel his contract were unjustifiable and ILLEGAL .

 

[kit10grl]

But it's NOT RIGHT and illegal to discriminate against some one because of their sexuality.

They singled one person out. It wasn't a group of "gays" it was a hens do. It wasn't even for that guy.

So stupid someone's sexuality doesn't make them some kind of preditor to be uncomfortable around.

It's like when we were hiring a Santa for one if my DDs groups and someone had an objection because he was gay. Did I organise a new Santa. No I told them to stfu or not come to the event because their "concerns" abd reason on why we should cancel his contract were unjustifiable and ILLEGAL .

But Santa and the kids weren't getting naked so its not quite the same thing, In that instance absolutely you did the right thing I am totally against discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation to be clear. However in a sex based industry its more complicated than that.

And when it comes down to either employee rights not to feel sexually harassed at work or a customers right to view whatever he wants too then I'm afraid the business would be more at risk for breaching the employees rights.

Im totally not saying anything is wrong with this guy wanting to go see the show but it does boil down to what the stripper wants to do. Just because someone wants to hire him doesn't mean he needs to accept a job. Woul.d be the same if a builder didn't accept a job because he didn't like the request being made of him. Totally his right to not accept the job.

And to give aother side imagine your at work and there is a guy, nice enough, normal guy. But he like to stare at your chest. And you know hes doing it. He doesn't make any comments just obviously stares. Would you be uncomfortable? Would you do anything about it? Hes not doing anything wrong just looking in a direction you don't like. But if it makes you uncomfortable in your place of work you would be within your rights to have your boss speak to him about it. You are legally granted the right of not being made sexually uncomfortable at work.

This guy doenst mind getting naked in front of women. He does mind getting naked in front of gay men. Yes its a bit homophobic but if that is how he feels then you cant change that.

 

[JASMAK]

I think it is odd. I duno. Maybe it makes the stripper feel insecure though? I haven't read all the replies.

 

[Glitter_berry]

But my point is. WHY is it making him feel uncomfortable.
He isn't doing anything different than any of the females there??

I seriously don't get it in this one instance. So I'm going to agree to disagree. Lol

 

[kit10grl]

But it's NOT RIGHT and illegal to discriminate against some one because of their sexuality.

They singled one person out. It wasn't a group of "gays" it was a hens do. It wasn't even for that guy.

So stupid someone's sexuality doesn't make them some kind of preditor to be uncomfortable around.

It's like when we were hiring a Santa for one if my DDs groups and someone had an objection because he was gay. Did I organise a new Santa. No I told them to stfu or not come to the event because their "concerns" abd reason on why we should cancel his contract were unjustifiable and ILLEGAL .

But my point is. WHY is it making him feel uncomfortable.
He isn't doing anything different than any of the females there??

I seriously don't get it in this one instance. So I'm going to agree to disagree. Lol

Why do any of us feel the things we feel? We might not agree with or understand why another person feels something they just do. And its their right to feel their feelings.

But nothing wrong in agreeing to disagree. I'm not trying to change people's minds just expressing an opinion.

 

[JASMAK]

But my point is. WHY is it making him feel uncomfortable.
He isn't doing anything different than any of the females there??

I seriously don't get it in this one instance. So I'm going to agree to disagree. Lol

well, it may not even be him...could it be the company? I think it is discrimination though, for sure. So...I wouldn't hire them. Simples. Make a human rights complaint. wonder if they have seen a stripper one yet? LOL

 

[steph.]

Hmmm tough one, but I think I'm going to agree with kit10grl. I can understand why they wouldnt supply the service. Stripping is a sexual service, even if there is no touching the dancers can get pretty close to the clients, make suggestive moves, and the audience is there to get some eye-candy and have sexually-inspired fun. If you are a straight man, you might feel uncomfortable if there is another man there cheering you on and putting dollars in your g-string.

 

[steph.]

And as for every gay man being attracted to every other man- I think everyone realises that isnt the case. Just like every straight man isnt attracted to every woman, but I would still feel uncomfortable taking my clothes off in front of any other man apart from my husband, yet I take my clothes off in front of women every week when I take my lo swimming. Its not because I think men would be attracted to me naked (actually I would be quite flattered if they were, I look like a whale atm), but I just wouldnt feel comfortable.

 

[PepsiChic]

But my point is. WHY is it making him feel uncomfortable.
He isn't doing anything different than any of the females there??

I seriously don't get it in this one instance. So I'm going to agree to disagree. Lol

If the stripper is not gay, then yes he probably does feel uncomfortable stripping and dancing in a sexual way infront of another man, regardless of wether that man in the audience is gay or not.

I dont think its "because hes gay" I think its because hes a man. Most strippers have a policy where they wont dance for the same sex.

Im not gay, I have no issues with gay people, being friends, socializing...but would i strip and give a lesbian a lap dance? no. would i strip and give another girl (straight) a lap dance? no. its completely out of my comfort zone.

I dont feel attracted to women, so I certainly wouldnt feel comfortable doing any kind of sexy dance for one. gay or not. I can only image this is how a lot of straight strippers feel.

so my point is, i dont think its anything to do with sexual orientation...its about same-sex stripping and dancing which most people wouldnt feel comfortable doing.

 

[steph.]

But my point is. WHY is it making him feel uncomfortable.
He isn't doing anything different than any of the females there??

I seriously don't get it in this one instance. So I'm going to agree to disagree. Lol

If the stripper is not gay, then yes he probably does feel uncomfortable stripping and dancing in a sexual way infront of another man, regardless of wether that man in the audience is gay or not.

I dont think its "because hes gay" I think its because hes a man. Most strippers have a policy where they wont dance for the same sex.

Im not gay, I have no issues with gay people, being friends, socializing...but would i strip and give a lesbian a lap dance? no. would i strip and give another girl (straight) a lap dance? no. its completely out of my comfort zone.

I dont feel attracted to women, so I certainly wouldnt feel comfortable doing any kind of sexy dance for one. gay or not. I can only image this is how a lot of straight strippers feel.

so my point is, i dont think its anything to do with sexual orientation...its about same-sex stripping and dancing which most people wouldnt feel comfortable doing.

This is what I had tried to say but hadn't quite managed! Completely agree

 

[Glitter_berry]

And as for every gay man being attracted to every other man- I think everyone realises that isnt the case. Just like every straight man isnt attracted to every woman, but I would still feel uncomfortable taking my clothes off in front of any other man apart from my husband, yet I take my clothes off in front of women every week when I take my lo swimming. Its not because I think men would be attracted to me naked (actually I would be quite flattered if they were, I look like a whale atm), but I just wouldnt feel comfortable.

I get that. And it's made me understand a little better.

I never looked at it as because he was a man. I just saw it from a "because he is gay" point of view.

So I can now see why he would feel a bit uncomfortable.
My husband would has no probs joining in girly conversations with my girl friends, but feels the need that some things are off limits when talking to the guys coz he will be "judged"

So thank you. I guess I was looking at it the wrong way.