Jehovah's Witnesses

[jaye944]

I'm so glad to hear your testimony Gills also that you have found a great familly in Christ who has helped you.

Remember religion isn't important, its your relationship with Christ that is, and I hope you have found that.

And NO it's not a cheesy phrase at all.

I had a terrible childhood with an abusive father and it was the church who (to coin a cheesy phrase) saved me. (CofE) They were a fantastic support system who were there for me regardless of my belief. I think too many people are religion haters due to be coerced into it by family etc.

 

[blahblahblah]

I have some colleagues and neighbours that are JW's, and in day to day life they are perfectly pleasant, and do not try to convert anyone. A girl I work with is happy to talk about her beliefs and explain her reasons for holding them, but she understands that whilst interested, other people believe differently and accepts that without argument. If someone stops me in the street I politely tell them that I am not interested.

But when I am disturbed in my own home with an attempt to convert me, I find that incredibly rude and offensive. Depending on the level of inconvenience they have caused (such as waking LO, or interrupting our family dinner), I may exercise my right to tell them exactly what I think! This isn't just on religious grounds, I also tell energy suppliers on my doorstep where they can stick their incredible deals!

 

[jaye944]

TBH I've never had any JW who was anything other than pleasnt to me.

Just double glazing salesmen

So as "people" go I have no problem with anyone or JW's

I always spek to people like that who cold call to me, very politley say Im not interested, that I'm a saved Christian have a good day and God bless you.

Works everytime,, pity they dont try and chat or convert me, they never want to after I tell them that. Maybe its the non-believers that they can hook. I'd be more that happy to discuss my beliefs with them.

I'm starting to feel alittle bit left out now ROFLMAO

However the ones who have come to my door have been pushy, arrogant and rude. That on its own is enough to turn someone off. If they are supposed to be the spokespeople (per se) then having them act like that while trying to show people "The Way" seems counterproductive. I've always maintained that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.... if that makes sense?

 

[jaye944]

I knew a couple, again, just as you say, perfectly pleasnt people.
But thats not the issue.

And like you I DONT like any form of cold callers, EXECEPT the occasional Christian that comes around. and they ONLY ever leave a tract and let me know when there servvies are.

They never start with... "DO you know the world is going to end and where you are going to be" that some JW's think.

I have some colleagues and neighbours that are JW's, and in day to day life they are perfectly pleasant, and do not try to convert anyone. A girl I work with is happy to talk about her beliefs and explain her reasons for holding them, but she understands that whilst interested, other people believe differently and accepts that without argument. If someone stops me in the street I politely tell them that I am not interested.

But when I am disturbed in my own home with an attempt to convert me, I find that incredibly rude and offensive. Depending on the level of inconvenience they have caused (such as waking LO, or interrupting our family dinner), I may exercise my right to tell them exactly what I think! This isn't just on religious grounds, I also tell energy suppliers on my doorstep where they can stick their incredible deals!

 

[jaye944]

just an open question

Can any JW's answer me, if only 144,000 will be in heaven, there will be an awfull lot of JW's who will be disapointed

So will the rest be second class citizens on earth then?

Will there be a class revolt.... will the earth bound ones become jealous of there heaven bound ones, will they be allowed to go there on holidays? Will famillies be split up..

hahahaha, sorry, only just thought of that.

There was also a time when poeple thought the Earth was flat ?

 

[morri]

Well, they are strange aren't they? I think if they do this(walking from door to door etc, they are also allowed to be ridiculed by comedians.

 

[Tasha]

jaye944 I am not a JW but I do think what ever the defintion is, that it could be seen as offensive to keep refering to their religion as a cult, to me then all religion's including Christainity, Catholic, Muslim, I could go on but you get my point would be a cult as all of their beliefs/practises could be considered strange. I don't know, I just think it is not a very nice way to refer to something what ever the dictionary says.

I wish I had faith.

 

[Tasha]

just an open question

Can any JW's answer me, if only 144,000 will be in heaven, there will be an awfull lot of JW's who will be disapointed

So will the rest be second class citizens on earth then?

Will there be a class revolt.... will the earth bound ones become jealous of there heaven bound ones, will they be allowed to go there on holidays? Will famillies be split up..

hahahaha, sorry, only just thought of that.

There was also a time when poeple thought the Earth was flat ?

Again not a JW, but my MIL is, we no longer speak (for different reasons ) but I think I remember her saying earth will be sort of a paradise and everything here will be perfect, don't quote me on that though cos it was days after my daughter died.

 

[Tasha]

I do think that people should be aware that these are people's beliefs, I have none (like I said I wish I did), and to refer to them/their religion as strange, a cult, brain washing or what ever is insulting IMO. It is okay to have different beliefs to someone but to use those words is not okay, religion and beliefs are highly emotive so we should be aware of others feelings.

 

[Thedon]

Steps to deal with JW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIew0zc2o7A

 

[madasa]

At the end of the day a question was asked and I asnwered it to the best of my ability.

Somethings only appear to be open to interpretation. That depends on what you know, what you seek and where you look for it.

I'm sad that you feel that there is no point in applying the bible to your life, as a Christian I do. I dont know "exactly" from my own understanding or of others what is right, but... I do know from my manual what I am told is right.

And that IS what the bible to me and other Christians and actually it isnt confusing at all.

The Bible isnt a copy Cosmo, or a Johnathon Archer novel you can just read cover to cover and say thats it... if you dont have understanding of it, then you are not either reading it or seeking understaning from it.

and I dont know what church service you go to, cos no pastor has ever told me I'm a bad person, but that "we are ALL sinners".

And it has NOTHING at all to do with being good, as I have already said we are ALL bad. sin is sin, bad is bad, there are no degreee's. By leaning on our own understanding of what is GOOD, we are liable to fail becuase EVERYONE has a different standard, but GOD doesnt, he has one standard that we aim for.

I can say that something is def. wrong, from my teachings, wether I then decide to do it is another thing all together.

Let me ask you for instance.

Have you, ever, stolen, taken anything, without someones persons knowledge no matter how old you where or how small?

Have you ever told a lie, white lie, small little porky?

Have you ever used the name of God as a swear word ?

Have you ever, looked at another person and lusted, thought they where attractive, wondered what they where like in bed, or had sex with somone who was not your husband/wife?

If so, just like me, by your own admission , you are a thief, a lier, a blasphmeous adulteror/fornicator. So you have already broken 4 of God's laws. your are not a "good person"

But we all fall short of these things, but your penalty for these and other things you've done HAS already been paid for in advance.

I am not trying to put myself on any higher plane than you, but the trick is knowing that "you" (global you/us/we) have done wrong, will continue to do wrong, but there is a get out of jail card and that is called "Jesus".

sorry for going on abit but this is one of my passion's

This doesn't say anything about going to heaven and could easily refer to eternal life on earth after resurrection as to eternal life in heaven as an angel or spirit or what have you. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, just pointing this out as one example among many thousands which is wide open to interpretation, and one reason I see no point in trying to apply what the Bible says to my own life. It's just too bally confusing.... I don't need a book - or even a man behind a pulpit or in a smart suit at my front door with a briefcase - to tell me how to be a good person

I don't think I have perfect understanding of the Bible but I neither need nor want one. There are so many contradictory passages in it. I can't see how ANY religion or even "cult" can be looked down on for explaining these contradictions by interpreting some of the passages as fiction.

As for you telling me "I am not a good person" - according to the Bible I am not a good person, that is true. But since I don't take the teachings of the Bible as a guide for my own life, the idea does not bother me in the slightest. It's not my standard of measure.

 

[madasa]

I see the threads gone a bit way laid but I had a Jehovahs Witness knock my door this morning - I never check first - I just open the door.
He was lovely. He told me who he was and asked if I would like a leaflet and very briefly what it was about. I accepted his leaflet and he walked away.

I do believe they are mostly just wanting to show people that they are around and let people know the joy they have with their religion. He was in no way pushy.
I for one wouldn't have a clue where to go to find out about any local JW - I didn't even know we had a congregation locally. (not sure if congregation is the right word lol)

It's a shame if there are slightly more pushy ones out there but I do believe that them sharing their word is a good thing. If it wasn't for religion I wouldn't be where I am now.

I had a terrible childhood with an abusive father and it was the church who (to coin a cheesy phrase) saved me. (CofE) They were a fantastic support system who were there for me regardless of my belief. I think too many people are religion haters due to be coerced into it by family etc.

Or because so many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion over the centuries, that has something to do with it for many people. I know lots of people who are very open to the idea of there being a God and quite ready to welcome God into their lives.... but not via organised religion.

 

[Blah11]

I agree, a cult isn't a nice way to refer to something like a religion. It's not the actual word, it's the connatations with the word. For example, its perfectly fine to call someone with a learning disability 'mentally ********' cos thats what ******** means in the dictionary but you wouldnt b/c a lot of people find it offensive. Its the same sorta thing.

 

[madasa]

We dont have proof for a lot of things but we believe them anyway, that my dear is called "faith"

And THAT, "my dear", is blatantly patronising, but that's ok <pats head condescendingly>>

(I'll condense this)
Pre-Jesus, the only way that man could attone for his sins, was through the ritual killing of usually lambs by a priest. The priest would offer this as a sacrifice for the person concerned. Jesus, was the sacrifice not for one or two but for the whole world, past , present and future. He was the lamb.Now thats a lot of sheeps. BTW, It is a Parents responsibility to sacrifice for there children... and get there money's worth. I expect your Mother and father sacrified a lot... I think asking them they would say they got there money's worth.

Why? God is all powerful. God created the heavens and the Earth. But he can't forgive a man his sins until he's slaughtered an animal (which has done nothing to deserve it either I might.) *I* don't require that animals are slaughtered in my name before I forgive someone if they have "trespassed against me", and I am NOT all-powerful.

WOOT! Why have I concerned myself with "being a good person" when the consequence for my actions has already been dealt? In fact, given that the world's only perfect man suffered and died most awfully to pay that price for me, I want the poor chap to get his money's worth. Sin City, here I come...

God, gave us freedom of choice, to choose to do right to do wrong, God made us in HIS IMAGE, i.e. likeness. Now I'm sure you dont know just as I dont know, what the purpose of that was, maybe some where down the road there was a use for that ol tree, BUT Adam never got a chance as his mate said here you go love, Ive made a nice apple pie, want a slice ! And they where both done for ever after.

There's the rub, isn't it? The Tree. Free Will. This complex brain. The abominably high drive to have sex, especially in adolescence. It's all there.... but if you use it, you're a sinner. Why are we given these things, but not meant to use them? Why are we being tested to destruction? If I left a steak on my counter and my dog indulged, I'd shrug and go "you know what? that was probably a silly place to put the steak." I wouldn't need my son to be tortured and murdered in the most gruesome fashion first either. Yet as parents, we teach our children by example. If we are to view god as a "Father", what example is he setting us?

Let me ask you, would you rather serve a God blindly with no choice or, willingly cos you wanted to.

OR let me re-phrase that, would your OWN Father want you to love him, BECAUSE you had no choice, or that you really honestly wanted to?

I'd rather my future child, run to me, hug me and say "Daddy I love you", rather than "You said that I have to tell you I love you and hug you"

Thats why where not robots and thats why we do wrong.

This comparison of God to an earthly Father is not a great one. Firstly, no earthly father in his right mind would send his son to suffer for any price. My father never demanded I worship him, sing his praises, kill animals before he'd give me a hug and "forgive" me for being naughty or label me a sinner if I used his name as a swear word. Had I HAD such a father, I probably would not have loved him, whether he'd demanded it or not. I might have displayed Stockholm Syndrome though. WHY we "love" is a whole nother topic and a complex one. You might say I loved my dad because he was the polar opposite of such a character... for a start he was a gentle person, with a good sense of humour.

Fraid you'll have to point that particular verse out to me.

But I'll tell you this being tempted is not a sin.

Jesus himself was tempted by the enemy in the wilderness. The sin comes if we succumb to that temptation.

I am sure there are others as well:

Matthew 18:5-7
5"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!"

1 Cor 10:28-33
28But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake[a]&#8212; 29the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? 30If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?
31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God&#8212; 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

Can't resist pointing out that Jesus said we should forgive those who sin against us "seventy times and seven" - yet Adam & Eve were condemned on the first offence.... and untold generations of their children (who hadn't even done anything yet) right along with them.... Nice parental example there.

It's been lovely chatting, but I'm saying no more here. I've made my point and gone OT more than enough!

 

[gills8752]

I see the threads gone a bit way laid but I had a Jehovahs Witness knock my door this morning - I never check first - I just open the door.
He was lovely. He told me who he was and asked if I would like a leaflet and very briefly what it was about. I accepted his leaflet and he walked away.

I do believe they are mostly just wanting to show people that they are around and let people know the joy they have with their religion. He was in no way pushy.
I for one wouldn't have a clue where to go to find out about any local JW - I didn't even know we had a congregation locally. (not sure if congregation is the right word lol)

It's a shame if there are slightly more pushy ones out there but I do believe that them sharing their word is a good thing. If it wasn't for religion I wouldn't be where I am now.

I had a terrible childhood with an abusive father and it was the church who (to coin a cheesy phrase) saved me. (CofE) They were a fantastic support system who were there for me regardless of my belief. I think too many people are religion haters due to be coerced into it by family etc.

Or because so many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion over the centuries, that has something to do with it for many people. I know lots of people who are very open to the idea of there being a God and quite ready to welcome God into their lives.... but not via organised religion.

Yeah, that too.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I see the threads gone a bit way laid but I had a Jehovahs Witness knock my door this morning - I never check first - I just open the door.
He was lovely. He told me who he was and asked if I would like a leaflet and very briefly what it was about. I accepted his leaflet and he walked away.

I do believe they are mostly just wanting to show people that they are around and let people know the joy they have with their religion. He was in no way pushy.
I for one wouldn't have a clue where to go to find out about any local JW - I didn't even know we had a congregation locally. (not sure if congregation is the right word lol)

It's a shame if there are slightly more pushy ones out there but I do believe that them sharing their word is a good thing. If it wasn't for religion I wouldn't be where I am now.

I had a terrible childhood with an abusive father and it was the church who (to coin a cheesy phrase) saved me. (CofE) They were a fantastic support system who were there for me regardless of my belief. I think too many people are religion haters due to be coerced into it by family etc.

Or because so many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion over the centuries, that has something to do with it for many people. I know lots of people who are very open to the idea of there being a God and quite ready to welcome God into their lives.... but not via organised religion.

Yeah, that too.

True, hence why JW's refuse to go to war, or vote due to injustices with human governments and their involvement in war.

Jesus said that true christains would be no part of this world and its affairs, becuase its in opposition to the bible.

Do not murder is one of the ten commandments remember Unfortunately organised religion that kill in the name of thier religion or God are not in agreement with the bible, and that inturn puts people off religion all together.

Sad really, but i totally understand where you are coming from, but its nothing to do with God or the bible and its teachings

 

[Tessa]

Steps to deal with JW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIew0zc2o7A

Love this!!!!

 

[sossypops]

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I can understand how having someone knock at your door can be annoying! But please believe me when I say we aren't doing it to be annoying! In any group of people there are some who don't have good people skills. So i apologise for the times any of you have met with pushy JW's. Most of us are not like that. We have training for the door to door work and it's very much based on respecting the people we call on. We understand that people have different beliefs and hearing about them and respecting them is what makes our work so interesting.

If you really don't wish for JW's to call, rather than getting angry, please just tell them you wish to be a 'do not call'. You will be put on a list and that will be respected. Or if you are just busy or don't feel like talking, please just be firm.

Most of us are normal people hehehe and we do have senses of humour....for example....that video posted about how to get rid of us is very funny!

 

[xolily]

i haven't read the whole thread but i was at OH takeaway one night talking to his nephew outside (asian) and the JW had been walking up and down the street handing out leaflets talking about God etc.. but when they got to us they started talking about curries!? i thought that was quite rude as they probably assumed cus he was asian he wasn't a christian (he's not, but that's not always the case!) xx

 

[RainbowDrop_x]

I have nothing against them doing what they do. Every one has their own religions/beliefs and I completely respect that.

I just wish they wouldn't ram THEIR beliefs down my throat. I don't have a problem with them informing me of how they do things. I just wish they would take the hint and not spend hours on my doorstep