Jehovah's Witnesses

[ShanandBoc]

I don't get it - every religion in the world thinks their religion is the right one and everyone else is being idolatrous - if you question this they ALL say they have faith that their religion is the correct one. How does anyone know what is right? x

surely if you wholeheartedly believe in your religion and follow it because you believe what it states is gods will, come judgement day he wont penalize you if you were following the "wrong" religion? he would embrace you for living your life as you believed he wanted you too live it? well, thats i would like to think anyway

Even if that person believed that it was gods will that he strap explosives to himself and blow up ad many non believers ad possible?

Such a tolerant and forgiving god would not have condemned us all to suffering and death because if the sin of two people.... Ok I'm speculating, but am I the only person who thinks that's illogical in the extreme?

no not those people because god doesnt condone violence etc etc so those people obviously are the exception to the rule? when you get into it theres obviously an arguement to every reason you can give to why its true.

no but it all came down to the temptation? adam and eve had a choice not to give in to the temptation but they couldnt. and he warned them not to but they did anyway.

but im not sure if this is entirely right, my knowledge of the bible is fairly basic so correct me if im wrong but doesnt the world have to become such a terrible place to live in again before Jesus can come again? and then when judgement day happens people will be judged on the things they have done in there life, and will be given the choice to follow and accept god and be given eternal life?

i spent alot of time studying scriptures with mormon missionairies so im sorry if that is actually from the book of mormon and not the bible lol. its all very confusing.

God doesn't condone violence when people are doing it no. When he does it it's perfectly alright. Obviously not one for teaching by setting a good example, but you know I do try to be tolerant of other parenting methods...

Ive posted about this earlier that God has never used violence for the sake of violence, but to remove wickedness x

 

[stuffymuffy]

I don't get it - every religion in the world thinks their religion is the right one and everyone else is being idolatrous - if you question this they ALL say they have faith that their religion is the correct one. How does anyone know what is right? x

surely if you wholeheartedly believe in your religion and follow it because you believe what it states is gods will, come judgement day he wont penalize you if you were following the "wrong" religion? he would embrace you for living your life as you believed he wanted you too live it? well, thats i would like to think anyway

Even if that person believed that it was gods will that he strap explosives to himself and blow up ad many non believers ad possible?


Such a tolerant and forgiving god would not have condemned us all to suffering and death because if the sin of two people.... Ok I'm speculating, but am I the only person who thinks that's illogical in the extreme?

once again it depends on whats in the persons heart. If thats all they knew and they thought they were doing the right thing, then they havent come to a knowledge about the truth about God. But then again, this person could just be pure evil ( and im sure some of them are) so only God knows for sure.

The suffering and death wont last forever tho, he will more than make it up to us in paradise......we will be able to enjoy the real life then.

Adam and Eves blatant disobideince even tho they had everything they wanted and more raised some serious questions.... would and can humans remain faithful even when tempted, even under trial? It challenged Gods right to rule, and this couldnt be resolved just by wiping out Adam and eve and starting again, remember thousdands of angels would have been watching, as well as the instigator, Satan. How would that have made God look, like he thought they were right?

By following the bible and Gods laws closely now, as imperfect humans with many trials and temptations, millions are proving satan a liar

Time was needed to prove once and for all, the outcome if humans were left to rule themselves. He has allowed time for us to reach our full potentials in alot of ways. But have we really progressed, does human rule fail? Are we capable of looking after the earth without his guidance? The answer is very clear. x

If his right to rule was challenged, does he rule now?

If humans evolved to a point where they could govern themselves, would Armageddon not come? Where would god stand then? From your explanation, it sounds to me like he needs us to fail to prove his supremacy. I had not considered it that way before.

Curious: what are you doing right now? Dining with sinners and tax collectors? Or making bad associations which spoil useful habits?

well no right now he doesnt rule, the bible says that the God of this system is Satan.

In revelation the bible speaks of a time that Satan was cast down to the earth and was misleading the entire inhabited earth. This was the beginning of the last days spoken of in Matthew 24. It desribes not only world events….great earthquakes, great wars, pestilences, the good news would be preached on a global scale and also the attitudes and the traits and morals of the majority of humankind would take a dive. This is described at 2 timothy chapter 3 where it says that critical times hard to deal with would be here, men would be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self – assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient, disloyal, unthankful,having no natural affection, slanderes, without slef control, fierce, without love of goodnessheadsrtong, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of Gods.

The first great war was world war 1, humankinds first ever world war in 1914. This marked the beginning of the last days. Three times as many people have died in wars in the 20th century as in all wars from the first century AD to 1899. The last century has been a period of almost unbroken war with armed conflicts going on somewhere in the world.

The bible teaches us that this is because of Satans rule and influence over the earth after he was cast from heaven Read Revelation 12:9 – “ And the great dragon was cast out, , that old serpent, called the devil, and satan, which decieveth the whole world, he was cast out into the earth and his angels (demons) were cast out with him”

And Revelation 12:12 – “ therefore rejoice ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhibitors of the earth and sea! For the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath a short period of time” (The last days)

1 John 5: 19 – “ And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness”

1 Peter 5:8 – “ Be sober, be vigilant, because your advesary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour”

2 Cor 4:4 – “ In whom the god of this world (speaking of Satan) hath blinded the minds of them that believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

John 12:31 – “ Now is the judgement of this world, now shall the prince (ruler) of this world be cast out”

Didnt quite understand the curious part at the end of your post.....? If you mean by speaking to people on here that im going against the fact that bad associations spoil useful habits?

Its a warning that excessive association with those who practice bad things can rub off on you, thats human nature, not that you cant speak to people who dont believe etc. I have friends that arent witnesses and family of course.....i dont get involved with them partying, drinking etc but to cut them off because of my beliefs wouldnt be setting a good example would it?

Thank you!! Your post gas clarified a couple of things that niggled me fir tears! Lol! The only bit bugging me now is: for Satan to "win" and prove that man doesn't need Gods rule, why would he gave a temper tantrum and stir up a tonne of trouble which only proves the opposite?

Well he has succeeded in leading many astray from the bible and God hasnt he, his influence is everywhere around us. In the end God will win, not Satan. Remeber Satan was one of his angles that rebelled as were demons so God is much more powerful.

Satan has ultimately proved the opposite yes, that seperated from God, humans are in misery.

Couldn't have said it better

 

[madasa]

Some people seem to be giving ShanandBoc a bit of a hard time; She has been asked dozens of questions, all of which she has answered fully, and politely. I for one am finding it very interesting, despite not being religious.

Can I ask, regarding Adam and Eve; does their existance mean that JW's dont believe we evolved from ape's, but only Adam and Eve? And if so, was there a world before humans were around? Dinosoars etc? Why was there such a long time before humans were on the planet?

Sorry if Im being stupid

Since Christian and JW's believe the same about creation I believe I can answer is, but I apologize if it's not right with JW's teachings. Man was created in God's image, we were never Apes and JW's do not believe in the theory of evolution, in fact by the end of Darwin's life he renounced the theory as well
Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created him."
There was a world before humans were created:
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty..."
Humans were created on the last day so there was a 7 day gap between the creation of the earth and all of it's entirety and when humans were created.

Spot on, thank you x

And also 7 days doesnt necessarily mean 7 x 24 hour days either, as someone refering to day can be a period of time etc...like when grandpa says 'back in my day' lol

Yes exactly, thanks for clarifying

I se to recall the phrase; a day with god is a thousand years.... That's why Adam lived such a long time after bring banished from Eden, despite being told that if he ate the fruit from the tree "on that day you will surely die"

Have I got that right?

 

[ShanandBoc]

Some people seem to be giving ShanandBoc a bit of a hard time; She has been asked dozens of questions, all of which she has answered fully, and politely. I for one am finding it very interesting, despite not being religious.

Can I ask, regarding Adam and Eve; does their existance mean that JW's dont believe we evolved from ape's, but only Adam and Eve? And if so, was there a world before humans were around? Dinosoars etc? Why was there such a long time before humans were on the planet?

Sorry if Im being stupid

Since Christian and JW's believe the same about creation I believe I can answer is, but I apologize if it's not right with JW's teachings. Man was created in God's image, we were never Apes and JW's do not believe in the theory of evolution, in fact by the end of Darwin's life he renounced the theory as well
Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created him."
There was a world before humans were created:
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty..."
Humans were created on the last day so there was a 7 day gap between the creation of the earth and all of it's entirety and when humans were created.

Spot on, thank you x

And also 7 days doesnt necessarily mean 7 x 24 hour days either, as someone refering to day can be a period of time etc...like when grandpa says 'back in my day' lol

Yes exactly, thanks for clarifying

I se to recall the phrase; a day with god is a thousand years.... That's why Adam lived such a long time after bring banished from Eden, despite being told that if he ate the fruit from the tree "on that day you will surely die"

Have I got that right?

yep right hun, Adam lived to around 900 years old.

 

[andbabymakes3]

I have to say ladies, one of the more interesting debates I have read.

My only problem is, how can any religion argue with evolution?

 

[madasa]

I don't get it - every religion in the world thinks their religion is the right one and everyone else is being idolatrous - if you question this they ALL say they have faith that their religion is the correct one. How does anyone know what is right? x

surely if you wholeheartedly believe in your religion and follow it because you believe what it states is gods will, come judgement day he wont penalize you if you were following the "wrong" religion? he would embrace you for living your life as you believed he wanted you too live it? well, thats i would like to think anyway

Even if that person believed that it was gods will that he strap explosives to himself and blow up ad many non believers ad possible?


Such a tolerant and forgiving god would not have condemned us all to suffering and death because if the sin of two people.... Ok I'm speculating, but am I the only person who thinks that's illogical in the extreme?

once again it depends on whats in the persons heart. If thats all they knew and they thought they were doing the right thing, then they havent come to a knowledge about the truth about God. But then again, this person could just be pure evil ( and im sure some of them are) so only God knows for sure.

The suffering and death wont last forever tho, he will more than make it up to us in paradise......we will be able to enjoy the real life then.

Adam and Eves blatant disobideince even tho they had everything they wanted and more raised some serious questions.... would and can humans remain faithful even when tempted, even under trial? It challenged Gods right to rule, and this couldnt be resolved just by wiping out Adam and eve and starting again, remember thousdands of angels would have been watching, as well as the instigator, Satan. How would that have made God look, like he thought they were right?

By following the bible and Gods laws closely now, as imperfect humans with many trials and temptations, millions are proving satan a liar

Time was needed to prove once and for all, the outcome if humans were left to rule themselves. He has allowed time for us to reach our full potentials in alot of ways. But have we really progressed, does human rule fail? Are we capable of looking after the earth without his guidance? The answer is very clear. x

If his right to rule was challenged, does he rule now?

If humans evolved to a point where they could govern themselves, would Armageddon not come? Where would god stand then? From your explanation, it sounds to me like he needs us to fail to prove his supremacy. I had not considered it that way before.

Curious: what are you doing right now? Dining with sinners and tax collectors? Or making bad associations which spoil useful habits?

well no right now he doesnt rule, the bible says that the God of this system is Satan.

In revelation the bible speaks of a time that Satan was cast down to the earth and was misleading the entire inhabited earth. This was the beginning of the last days spoken of in Matthew 24. It desribes not only world events….great earthquakes, great wars, pestilences, the good news would be preached on a global scale and also the attitudes and the traits and morals of the majority of humankind would take a dive. This is described at 2 timothy chapter 3 where it says that critical times hard to deal with would be here, men would be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self – assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient, disloyal, unthankful,having no natural affection, slanderes, without slef control, fierce, without love of goodnessheadsrtong, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of Gods.

The first great war was world war 1, humankinds first ever world war in 1914. This marked the beginning of the last days. Three times as many people have died in wars in the 20th century as in all wars from the first century AD to 1899. The last century has been a period of almost unbroken war with armed conflicts going on somewhere in the world.

The bible teaches us that this is because of Satans rule and influence over the earth after he was cast from heaven Read Revelation 12:9 – “ And the great dragon was cast out, , that old serpent, called the devil, and satan, which decieveth the whole world, he was cast out into the earth and his angels (demons) were cast out with him”

And Revelation 12:12 – “ therefore rejoice ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhibitors of the earth and sea! For the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath a short period of time” (The last days)

1 John 5: 19 – “ And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness”

1 Peter 5:8 – “ Be sober, be vigilant, because your advesary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour”

2 Cor 4:4 – “ In whom the god of this world (speaking of Satan) hath blinded the minds of them that believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

John 12:31 – “ Now is the judgement of this world, now shall the prince (ruler) of this world be cast out”

Didnt quite understand the curious part at the end of your post.....? If you mean by speaking to people on here that im going against the fact that bad associations spoil useful habits?

Its a warning that excessive association with those who practice bad things can rub off on you, thats human nature, not that you cant speak to people who dont believe etc. I have friends that arent witnesses and family of course.....i dont get involved with them partying, drinking etc but to cut them off because of my beliefs wouldnt be setting a good example would it?

Thank you!! Your post gas clarified a couple of things that niggled me fir tears! Lol! The only bit bugging me now is: for Satan to "win" and prove that man doesn't need Gods rule, why would he gave a temper tantrum and stir up a tonne of trouble which only proves the opposite?

Well he has succeeded in leading many astray from the bible and God hasnt he, his influence is everywhere around us. In the end God will win, not Satan. Remeber Satan was one of his angles that rebelled as were demons so God is much more powerful.

Satan has ultimately proved the opposite yes, that seperated from God, humans are in misery.

I got the impression from the bible that Saran was brighter (more cunning) than that. Thus remains an inconsistency for me. Essentially we're being tested to destruction so God can prove to his angels that ge really is the king of the castle... This seems a bit kind if petty for a supreme being and creator of the whole universe.... This isn't directed at you by the way, I'm justvtyping my train of thought

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

does that revelations 20:12 not freak anyone else out lol.

I just want to know "what is god" "where does he live"

Also, if god created Adam and eve who had 2 sons....How did the population continue? Did Cain or Abel sleep with Eve?

Sorry, I am so confused.

 

[madasa]

Why do we suffer pain during childbirth. If the new system does come will we still have that pain?

If everyone lives forever will be need doctors,nurses and MW,s etc
xx

Pain in childbirth came after the fall of man, when Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 3:16 " To the woman he said, I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children."
I'm not sure what you mean by the new system though?
And there will be no pain and suffering when Christ comes back so, no there will be no need for medical professionals

This depends on the translation actually. Some reckon it reads "in SOREOW you will bring forth children...". Some women report low pain it even pain free births, and tribal women/women in developing countries seem to have less pain. Childbirth Without Fear by Grant Dickley-Read covers this

Back to topic!

The quote I listed was from an NIV Bible, but I know that the other translations are similar if not identical. What do you mean by "in soreow you will bring forth children? I'm just curious
And I'll have to look up that book thanks, it sounds interesting.


EDIT: I looked up the book and read an exerpt, it is simply discussing ways of having a relaxed, less painful childbirth. It doesn't discuss the Bibilical aspect of how child birth became painful. But I'll still be getting it, seems like an interesting read

Sorry I should have been clearer . It should read "in sorrow you will...". Which doesn't necessarily mean pain . The wird sorrow itself could be open to interpretation I guess... Hardship? The best thing to do wod be read the surrounding verses, but I have no bible to hand.

Childbirth Without Fear was written in the 40s, the style of writing makes it hardgoing at times but there's a lot of good useful stuff in thee

 

[ShanandBoc]

I don't get it - every religion in the world thinks their religion is the right one and everyone else is being idolatrous - if you question this they ALL say they have faith that their religion is the correct one. How does anyone know what is right? x

surely if you wholeheartedly believe in your religion and follow it because you believe what it states is gods will, come judgement day he wont penalize you if you were following the "wrong" religion? he would embrace you for living your life as you believed he wanted you too live it? well, thats i would like to think anyway

Even if that person believed that it was gods will that he strap explosives to himself and blow up ad many non believers ad possible?


Such a tolerant and forgiving god would not have condemned us all to suffering and death because if the sin of two people.... Ok I'm speculating, but am I the only person who thinks that's illogical in the extreme?

once again it depends on whats in the persons heart. If thats all they knew and they thought they were doing the right thing, then they havent come to a knowledge about the truth about God. But then again, this person could just be pure evil ( and im sure some of them are) so only God knows for sure.

The suffering and death wont last forever tho, he will more than make it up to us in paradise......we will be able to enjoy the real life then.

Adam and Eves blatant disobideince even tho they had everything they wanted and more raised some serious questions.... would and can humans remain faithful even when tempted, even under trial? It challenged Gods right to rule, and this couldnt be resolved just by wiping out Adam and eve and starting again, remember thousdands of angels would have been watching, as well as the instigator, Satan. How would that have made God look, like he thought they were right?

By following the bible and Gods laws closely now, as imperfect humans with many trials and temptations, millions are proving satan a liar

Time was needed to prove once and for all, the outcome if humans were left to rule themselves. He has allowed time for us to reach our full potentials in alot of ways. But have we really progressed, does human rule fail? Are we capable of looking after the earth without his guidance? The answer is very clear. x

If his right to rule was challenged, does he rule now?

If humans evolved to a point where they could govern themselves, would Armageddon not come? Where would god stand then? From your explanation, it sounds to me like he needs us to fail to prove his supremacy. I had not considered it that way before.

Curious: what are you doing right now? Dining with sinners and tax collectors? Or making bad associations which spoil useful habits?

well no right now he doesnt rule, the bible says that the God of this system is Satan.

In revelation the bible speaks of a time that Satan was cast down to the earth and was misleading the entire inhabited earth. This was the beginning of the last days spoken of in Matthew 24. It desribes not only world events….great earthquakes, great wars, pestilences, the good news would be preached on a global scale and also the attitudes and the traits and morals of the majority of humankind would take a dive. This is described at 2 timothy chapter 3 where it says that critical times hard to deal with would be here, men would be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self – assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient, disloyal, unthankful,having no natural affection, slanderes, without slef control, fierce, without love of goodnessheadsrtong, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of Gods.

The first great war was world war 1, humankinds first ever world war in 1914. This marked the beginning of the last days. Three times as many people have died in wars in the 20th century as in all wars from the first century AD to 1899. The last century has been a period of almost unbroken war with armed conflicts going on somewhere in the world.

The bible teaches us that this is because of Satans rule and influence over the earth after he was cast from heaven Read Revelation 12:9 – “ And the great dragon was cast out, , that old serpent, called the devil, and satan, which decieveth the whole world, he was cast out into the earth and his angels (demons) were cast out with him”

And Revelation 12:12 – “ therefore rejoice ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhibitors of the earth and sea! For the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath a short period of time” (The last days)

1 John 5: 19 – “ And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness”

1 Peter 5:8 – “ Be sober, be vigilant, because your advesary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour”

2 Cor 4:4 – “ In whom the god of this world (speaking of Satan) hath blinded the minds of them that believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

John 12:31 – “ Now is the judgement of this world, now shall the prince (ruler) of this world be cast out”

Didnt quite understand the curious part at the end of your post.....? If you mean by speaking to people on here that im going against the fact that bad associations spoil useful habits?

Its a warning that excessive association with those who practice bad things can rub off on you, thats human nature, not that you cant speak to people who dont believe etc. I have friends that arent witnesses and family of course.....i dont get involved with them partying, drinking etc but to cut them off because of my beliefs wouldnt be setting a good example would it?

Thank you!! Your post gas clarified a couple of things that niggled me fir tears! Lol! The only bit bugging me now is: for Satan to "win" and prove that man doesn't need Gods rule, why would he gave a temper tantrum and stir up a tonne of trouble which only proves the opposite?

Well he has succeeded in leading many astray from the bible and God hasnt he, his influence is everywhere around us. In the end God will win, not Satan. Remeber Satan was one of his angles that rebelled as were demons so God is much more powerful.

Satan has ultimately proved the opposite yes, that seperated from God, humans are in misery.

I got the impression from the bible that Saran was brighter (more cunning) than that. Thus remains an inconsistency for me. Essentially we're being tested to destruction so God can prove to his angels that ge really is the king of the castle... This seems a bit kind if petty for a supreme being and creator of the whole universe.... This isn't directed at you by the way, I'm justvtyping my train of thought

Hey hun, well satan is clearly very cunning isnt he, never said he wasnt in the many ways he has schemed to turn the majority of humans against God

Its not so God can prove it just to his angles but to all of human kind forever as well. For all eternity we will know how humans failed without Gods rule, and will know how things turn out if we are to disobey our creator, thus bringing peace between ourselves and God and harmony and peace in paradise.

 

[ShanandBoc]

does that revelations 20:12 not freak anyone else out lol.

I just want to know "what is god" "where does he live"

Also, if god created Adam and eve who had 2 sons....How did the population continue? Did Cain or Abel sleep with Eve?

Sorry, I am so confused.

God is an invisible spirit being and lives obviously in heaven

In regards to how the population continued....

Gen. 5:3, 4: “Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth. And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters.” (One of Adam’s sons was Cain, and one of Adam’s daughters must have become Cain’s wife. At that time in human history when humans still had outstanding physical health and vitality, as indicated by the length of their lives, the likelihood of passing on defects as a result of marrying a close relative was not great. After some 2,500 years of human history, however, when mankind’s physical condition had greatly deteriorated, Jehovah gave to Israel laws forbidding incest.)

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

thank you x

 

[stuffymuffy]

Why do we suffer pain during childbirth. If the new system does come will we still have that pain?

If everyone lives forever will be need doctors,nurses and MW,s etc
xx

Pain in childbirth came after the fall of man, when Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 3:16 " To the woman he said, I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children."
I'm not sure what you mean by the new system though?
And there will be no pain and suffering when Christ comes back so, no there will be no need for medical professionals

This depends on the translation actually. Some reckon it reads "in SOREOW you will bring forth children...". Some women report low pain it even pain free births, and tribal women/women in developing countries seem to have less pain. Childbirth Without Fear by Grant Dickley-Read covers this

Back to topic!

The quote I listed was from an NIV Bible, but I know that the other translations are similar if not identical. What do you mean by "in soreow you will bring forth children? I'm just curious
And I'll have to look up that book thanks, it sounds interesting.


EDIT: I looked up the book and read an exerpt, it is simply discussing ways of having a relaxed, less painful childbirth. It doesn't discuss the Bibilical aspect of how child birth became painful. But I'll still be getting it, seems like an interesting read

Sorry I should have been clearer . It should read "in sorrow you will...". Which doesn't necessarily mean pain . The wird sorrow itself could be open to interpretation I guess... Hardship? The best thing to do wod be read the surrounding verses, but I have no bible to hand.

Childbirth Without Fear was written in the 40s, the style of writing makes it hardgoing at times but there's a lot of good useful stuff in thee

Well thank you, it seems like an interesting read I hope it is! Thanks for the clarification And I understand what you mean now, however in no translations of the Bible does it phrase the verse that way. The surrounding verses discuss the repercussions of man due to sin. The verse simply states that due to Eve's sin, childbirth will now be painful.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I have to say ladies, one of the more interesting debates I have read.

My only problem is, how can any religion argue with evolution?

The creator of the evolution theory Charles darwin, actually rennounced it before his death. Evolution defies logic, and science actually agrees with the order of creation as stated in Genesis.

 

[stuffymuffy]

I have to say ladies, one of the more interesting debates I have read.

My only problem is, how can any religion argue with evolution?

The creator of the evolution theory Charles darwin, actually rennounced it before his death. Evolution defies logic, and science actually agrees with the order of creation as stated in Genesis.

Was just about to say this, Charles Darwin in fact renounced his theory before his death.

Man has always had a issue with things that can not be proven nor tested in a sense. But there comes a point when science ends and faith has to step in

 

[madasa]

I have to say ladies, one of the more interesting debates I have read.

My only problem is, how can any religion argue with evolution?

The creator of the evolution theory Charles darwin, actually rennounced it before his death. Evolution defies logic, and science actually agrees with the order of creation as stated in Genesis.

Did he renounce it for it's own sake, or did he regret the amount if trouble his theory caused?

Would love to see the source for this to show oh!

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

I have to say ladies, one of the more interesting debates I have read.

My only problem is, how can any religion argue with evolution?

The creator of the evolution theory Charles darwin, actually rennounced it before his death. Evolution defies logic, and science actually agrees with the order of creation as stated in Genesis.

Did he renounce it for it's own sake, or did he regret the amount if trouble his theory caused?

Would love to see the source for this to show oh!

me too

 

[ShanandBoc]

Im off ill check this thread out later, got to drop my DH off at College. Anyone who wishes feel free to private message me too with any questions.....thanks for a great discussion, and all so respectfully as well despite differing opinions xo

 

[madasa]

Why do we suffer pain during childbirth. If the new system does come will we still have that pain?

If everyone lives forever will be need doctors,nurses and MW,s etc
xx

Pain in childbirth came after the fall of man, when Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 3:16 " To the woman he said, I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children."
I'm not sure what you mean by the new system though?
And there will be no pain and suffering when Christ comes back so, no there will be no need for medical professionals

This depends on the translation actually. Some reckon it reads "in SOREOW you will bring forth children...". Some women report low pain it even pain free births, and tribal women/women in developing countries seem to have less pain. Childbirth Without Fear by Grant Dickley-Read covers this

Back to topic!

The quote I listed was from an NIV Bible, but I know that the other translations are similar if not identical. What do you mean by "in soreow you will bring forth children? I'm just curious
And I'll have to look up that book thanks, it sounds interesting.


EDIT: I looked up the book and read an exerpt, it is simply discussing ways of having a relaxed, less painful childbirth. It doesn't discuss the Bibilical aspect of how child birth became painful. But I'll still be getting it, seems like an interesting read

Sorry I should have been clearer . It should read "in sorrow you will...". Which doesn't necessarily mean pain . The wird sorrow itself could be open to interpretation I guess... Hardship? The best thing to do wod be read the surrounding verses, but I have no bible to hand.

Childbirth Without Fear was written in the 40s, the style of writing makes it hardgoing at times but there's a lot of good useful stuff in thee

Well thank you, it seems like an interesting read I hope it is! Thanks for the clarification And I understand what you mean now, however in no translations of the Bible does it phrase the verse that way. The surrounding verses discuss the repercussions of man due to sin. The verse simply states that due to Eve's sin, childbirth will now be painful.

I wish i Had the sources to share, but im on my phone so i dint gave my bookmarks!! I will see if i can find the articles that duscussed this translation.

Do you have an explanation for the women who have low pain/pain free/orgasmic/pleasurable birth?

Women who experience the maternal feral ejection reflex have their babies "freefall" thru the birth canal, the pelvic flior "melts away" and the baby shoots out with little discomfort for the mother and little or no tearing or straining. Doesn't sound like the biblical promise of horrid birth!

Interestingly, pain relief used to be denied birthing women because of the belief: that it was our payment for Eve's Original Sin. Do you agree with that? If the translation you quoted is correct then it seems gid absolutely intends women to suffer during childbirth, which would make the use of drugs during labour ungodly.... No?

 

[Gonnabeamomma]

Do jws believe in the old testament (adam and eve) and not the new (jesus)-why is that? x

Jehovah's Witnesses believe in and practice all of the scriptures from both the old and the new testament... the believe the entire Bible is God's Word. They also don't just read a single scripture and apply it for understanding... they thoroughly research and take in the whole context in which the scripture was written so that they can get as clear an understanding as possible.
Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons and other religions serve God as they believe God wants to be served. I admire JWs who go from door to door and meet people who are rude, obnoxious, pull knives and guns, slam doors, spit, swear etc. and yet the JWs still return because they believe in the love of God being a powerful force in changing the lives of the people they meet everyday. Just because I swear at them doesn't mean they think less of me as a human being... that's pretty cool, I think. And I believe it is their deep faith and love for their god that makes them different from every body else. Maybe that's why we resent them coming to our door. They don't seem to have much but they're happy. Whereas I bust my butt working to provide, would kill for some 'me time' have chosen to forgo organized religion in my life and I can't seem to hit the same level of happiness they do. Sometimes, it pisses me off to see what inner peace they achieve by serving their God when I work so hard and don't even come close to what they seem to have.
That said, I respect them but I have a really tough time when they come to my door ... I think it is impossible to love someone who would as soon kill you or spit at you as listen to the message you've come to preach.
It's also really sickening to see them grocery shopping or just walking or at the beach and they are as pleasant as if you hadn't shouted at them or shut the door in their face. It's like I almost want to egg them on so that they would stamp their foot or lose their sunny disposition... but they're happy as clams all the time... must be tiring!

 

[Eabha'sMum]

God is an invisible spirit being and lives obviously in heaven

In regards to how the population continued....

Gen. 5:3, 4: “Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth. And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters.” (One of Adam’s sons was Cain, and one of Adam’s daughters must have become Cain’s wife. At that time in human history when humans still had outstanding physical health and vitality, as indicated by the length of their lives, the likelihood of passing on defects as a result of marrying a close relative was not great. After some 2,500 years of human history, however, when mankind’s physical condition had greatly deteriorated, Jehovah gave to Israel laws forbidding incest.)

so there has been a some sort of evolution, or really de-evolution of the human nature? a progression... easily equated to actual evolution?