Not doing " Father Christmas "

[omfgski]

...

 

[BigLegEmma]

Father Christmas is nothing to do with Christianity!

Um actually he is. The folklore of Father Christmas originates from Saint Nicholas, who was a 4th century bishop of a Christian church in modern-day Turkey, known for secretly giving gifts to those in need.

I think you'll find many Christians disagree.

 

[emyandpotato]

Father Christmas is nothing to do with Christianity!

Um actually he is. The folklore of Father Christmas originates from Saint Nicholas, who was a 4th century bishop of a Christian church in modern-day Turkey, known for secretly giving gifts to those in need.

I think you'll find many Christians disagree.

To be honest I think Christmas as we know it now is to do with whatever each family makes it to do with. For an Anglican Christian family it is perhaps a cultural and religious celebration rejoicing in Jesus' birth, as well as a celebration of family. To others, it is simply a celebration that has culminated from many factors to make a contemporary festival that focuses on family and happiness for happiness' and celebrations' sake. And indeed for others it has negative connotations and/or is seen as intrinsically negative or irrelevant. Pretty much everything has a billion and one connotations to this and that, hell even Christianity itself was focused on previous ideas in many ways. What is relevant to one Christian vis-a-vis Father Christmas is by no means relevant to another and whilst I'm pretty sure no one is denying the Christian recognition of St Nicholas, whether or not it is considered relevant or even in any way related to the contemporary idea of Santa is something that doesn't really have any right or wrong answer.

 

[MummyJo]

I know this is going to be an unpopular post and I swear it isn't meant to offend anyone.

I find it extremely hypocritical that it's believed to be so abhorrent to lie to your child about Santa/let them believe in something that isn't true but so many are happy to push their religion, beliefs and faith onto a child, with just as little 'proof'.

Yes, Santa/Father Christmas is a lie, but let's count how many people are detrimentally affected or receiving therapy because of it and then compare that to those adversely affected by religion.

I hate the consumerism of Christmas, but if allowing my children to believe in Santa is a lie, well then I guess I'm a great big liar and proudly so.
They regularly 'hear' jingles, or come up with wild stories as to how he gets into our apartment, am I going to correct them each time and explain he isn't real? As if.
In the same way that when they ask me to taste their play food I don't reply "Uh, this is plastic darling, I will pretend to taste it but do remember that it is only a toy, it shouldn't be put near your mouth, it doesn't have a taste and isn't edible".

 

[Natsku]

I know this is going to be an unpopular post and I swear it isn't meant to offend anyone.

I find it extremely hypocritical that it's believed to be so abhorrent to lie to your child about Santa/let them believe in something that isn't true but so many are happy to push their religion, beliefs and faith onto a child, with just as little 'proof'.

Yes, Santa/Father Christmas is a lie, but let's count how many people are detrimentally affected or receiving therapy because of it and then compare that to those adversely affected by religion.

I hate the consumerism of Christmas, but if allowing my children to believe in Santa is a lie, well then I guess I'm a great big liar and proudly so.
They regularly 'hear' jingles, or come up with wild stories as to how he gets into our apartment, am I going to correct them each time and explain he isn't real? As if.
In the same way that when they ask me to taste their play food I don't reply "Uh, this is plastic darling, I will pretend to taste it but do remember that it is only a toy, it shouldn't be put near your mouth, it doesn't have a taste and isn't edible".

Oh I'd agree that its hypocritical - I'm not a big fan of teaching children that anything is real that there isn't any real proof or evidence of it. But for religious people its not about proof, but faith (at least I think so) so they don't see the need for proof in order to teach it.

 

[BigLegEmma]

I know this is going to be an unpopular post and I swear it isn't meant to offend anyone.

I find it extremely hypocritical that it's believed to be so abhorrent to lie to your child about Santa/let them believe in something that isn't true but so many are happy to push their religion, beliefs and faith onto a child, with just as little 'proof'.

Yes, Santa/Father Christmas is a lie, but let's count how many people are detrimentally affected or receiving therapy because of it and then compare that to those adversely affected by religion.

I hate the consumerism of Christmas, but if allowing my children to believe in Santa is a lie, well then I guess I'm a great big liar and proudly so.
They regularly 'hear' jingles, or come up with wild stories as to how he gets into our apartment, am I going to correct them each time and explain he isn't real? As if.
In the same way that when they ask me to taste their play food I don't reply "Uh, this is plastic darling, I will pretend to taste it but do remember that it is only a toy, it shouldn't be put near your mouth, it doesn't have a taste and isn't edible".

That only applies if one doesn't have proof, I guess. Even without active spirituality in one's life, I find it hard to comprehend how people can study a little science and not see Intelligent Design at work. re: religion, the main tenets of most faiths is to love one another; terrible.

Addendum: In 18yrs of teaching primary and secondary ed, I can tell you the children who are most screwed up and/or spoiled are usually from faithless families.

 

[Kate&Lucas]

Yikes, how did we go from Father Christmas to screwed up children and religious debates?

Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the wayyyy

 

[Bex84]

That only applies if one doesn't have proof, I guess. Even without active spirituality in one's life, I find it hard to comprehend how people can study a little science and not see Intelligent Design at work. re: religion, the main tenets of most faiths is to love one another; terrible.

Addendum: In 18yrs of teaching primary and secondary ed, I can tell you the children who are most screwed up and/or spoiled are usually from faithless families.[/QUOTE]

I don't think children are screwed up being from a faithless family, all it means is you hold another belief and as pp said not sure how this links to father Christmas. At the end of the day you do what is right for your family. I hold no resentment what so ever that we believed in father Christmas growing up, we got less than some friends though didn't realise at the time as my family were not well off. If other families decide not to do father Christmas that doesent bother me, I hold different parenting beliefs from my friends but does not mean I am better or vice verser. I am sure children wont suffer from not doing father Christmas, just as they wont suffer with. Surely like with every belief it is a personal choice. I am not religious and a large percentage of my friends are not, none of us have been messed up by it, just as my Christian husband has not been messed up by growing up Christian and going to church every sunday. I buy presents for my daughter but that does not mean we buy in to the commercialisation of Christmas, we give to charity, we spend time together, we talk about helping others, I myself one of those who grew up in a faithless family have done a lot of voluntary work, both my sisters and myself have gone in to jobs where the primary concern is helping others. Faithless does not mean spoilt. I have taught a lot of children whose family do not practice or believe in religion and it makes no difference. I will bring my daughter up to be open minded and to accept others beliefs as well as having the strength to decide for herself her beliefs.

 

[Bex84]

I agree with the jingle bells lol, Happy Christmas everyone however you decide to celebrate it , and as they say good will to all men, whatever religion, belief, whatever you to decide to believe, and whatever you decide to celebrate or not

 

[Pearls18]

I know this is going to be an unpopular post and I swear it isn't meant to offend anyone.

I find it extremely hypocritical that it's believed to be so abhorrent to lie to your child about Santa/let them believe in something that isn't true but so many are happy to push their religion, beliefs and faith onto a child, with just as little 'proof'.

Yes, Santa/Father Christmas is a lie, but let's count how many people are detrimentally affected or receiving therapy because of it and then compare that to those adversely affected by religion.

I hate the consumerism of Christmas, but if allowing my children to believe in Santa is a lie, well then I guess I'm a great big liar and proudly so.
They regularly 'hear' jingles, or come up with wild stories as to how he gets into our apartment, am I going to correct them each time and explain he isn't real? As if.
In the same way that when they ask me to taste their play food I don't reply "Uh, this is plastic darling, I will pretend to taste it but do remember that it is only a toy, it shouldn't be put near your mouth, it doesn't have a taste and isn't edible".

I don't think your comparison works. The difference is when a parent is telling a child Santa is real they are "lying" because they know for a fact he isn't real, they don't believe in him, they buy presents, build up the myth and know one day they will have to tell them to truth. When a parent is passing on a religion, although they can't "prove" it they are only passing on what they believe to be true, they believe god is real despite proof but as far as they are concerned they are not lying, they are telling the child what they know to be true and that child with then go on to choose to believe it for themselves or not. Proof and religion doesn't really work, it's called faith for a reason.

I guess it is lying, there's no denying that really if you want to get into semantics, but Santa as a child was one of my happiest memories, I can't remember when I found out, I knew from a very young age but it didn't ruin anything, I loved the magic, the presents, the food, Christmas has always been such a wonderful time for me I hope to replicate that for my children, I very much doubt they will grow up to resent me for "lying" about where their gifts came from, if they do I will cross that bridge when I get it. Each to their own, I just do what I know.

 

[Nut_Shake]

This is all very interesting. I have nothing to add as I agree with a lot of the points on both sides, so am slightly confused with how to go about the whole Santa thing. But am enjoying reading all the comments. Great thread!

 

[Reedy]

i think it all depends on how things were when you grew up x I'm doing all the things my parents did when I was little and that is believing in Santa Claus x For those people out there that were devastated, heartbroken and find it hard to forgive their parents for 'lying' to them I have one question 'when you believed that santa was real, did you have a happy childhood, great Xmas's and enjoy the magic of it all? if yes then how can you be so hurt with your parents for making you incredibly happy??
I remember realizing he wasn't real and tbh not being bothered, i loved Christmas and everything about it especially the time I got to spend with my family x

and as for people not doing Santa because of it being something to do with parents sacrificing their children and drugged up reindeer I very much doubt those that do Santa will be telling our child/ren this is the reason we celebrate it. Tbh i'd never even heard of that.

 

[Natsku]

I'll be telling Maria about the drugged up reindeers for sure! Love the old Finnish Paganism - I shall be teaching her all about it. And even though I won't be doing Santa properly, I'll still take her to see Joulupukki up in Lapland.

 

[ShanandBoc]

This is all very interesting. I have nothing to add as I agree with a lot of the points on both sides, so am slightly confused with how to go about the whole Santa thing. But am enjoying reading all the comments. Great thread!

Ot but I remember you from the November Sparklers 2010. The twins are so grown up now and so gorgeous xo

 

[ShanandBoc]

I dont think just cause a child isnt brought up in a religion they are going to be more likely to be screwed up I find that comment a little rude tbh. Alot depends on the values a parent instills in their child and the example they set.

Comparing teaching your child about santa and God is ridiculous and disrespectful.

We all know santa isnt real and doesnt bring the presents. No one here can say say 100% that God doesnt exist at all.

I see plenty of evidence in the complexity and design in what I see around me everday and from personal experience amoungst other things. I teach my child what im convinced is truthful.

 

[Dragonfly]

I dont think just cause a child isnt brought up in a religion they are going to be more likely to be screwed up I find that comment a little rude tbh. Alot depends on the values a parent instills in their child and the example they set.

Comparing teaching your child about santa and God is ridiculous and disrespectful.

We all know santa isnt real and doesnt bring the presents. No one here can say say 100% that God doesnt exist at all.

I see plenty of evidence in the complexity and design in what I see around me everday and from personal experience amoungst other things. I teach my child what im convinced is truthful.

I agree. I cant find the original comment of who said that though but children without religion are not screwed up thanks . I also like your last line there. I dont even know why this has gone on to Jesus when its about Santa.

 

[Sarahkka]

That only applies if one doesn't have proof, I guess. Even without active spirituality in one's life, I find it hard to comprehend how people can study a little science and not see Intelligent Design at work. re: religion, the main tenets of most faiths is to love one another; terrible.

Addendum: In 18yrs of teaching primary and secondary ed, I can tell you the children who are most screwed up and/or spoiled are usually from faithless families.

What an incredibly uneccessary and offensive comment. I can tell you that several children from faith-based schools have stood out in my memory as being particularly unpleasant individuals to teach. However, I didn't extrapolate and immediately make sweeping generalizations that their behaviour had anything to do with whether or not their families were religious. Why even go there?

 

[Rósa]

I know this is going to be an unpopular post and I swear it isn't meant to offend anyone.

I find it extremely hypocritical that it's believed to be so abhorrent to lie to your child about Santa/let them believe in something that isn't true but so many are happy to push their religion, beliefs and faith onto a child, with just as little 'proof'.

Yes, Santa/Father Christmas is a lie, but let's count how many people are detrimentally affected or receiving therapy because of it and then compare that to those adversely affected by religion.

I hate the consumerism of Christmas, but if allowing my children to believe in Santa is a lie, well then I guess I'm a great big liar and proudly so.
They regularly 'hear' jingles, or come up with wild stories as to how he gets into our apartment, am I going to correct them each time and explain he isn't real? As if.
In the same way that when they ask me to taste their play food I don't reply "Uh, this is plastic darling, I will pretend to taste it but do remember that it is only a toy, it shouldn't be put near your mouth, it doesn't have a taste and isn't edible".

That only applies if one doesn't have proof, I guess. Even without active spirituality in one's life, I find it hard to comprehend how people can study a little science and not see Intelligent Design at work. re: religion, the main tenets of most faiths is to love one another; terrible.

Addendum: In 18yrs of teaching primary and secondary ed, I can tell you the children who are most screwed up and/or spoiled are usually from faithless families.

And yet people who are supposed to be religious eg vicars have been sexually abusing children for years...

 

[Nut_Shake]

This is all very interesting. I have nothing to add as I agree with a lot of the points on both sides, so am slightly confused with how to go about the whole Santa thing. But am enjoying reading all the comments. Great thread!

Ot but I remember you from the November Sparklers 2010. The twins are so grown up now and so gorgeous xo

Thanks! I was in December dreamers 2010, but remember some of the ladies due around the same time as me! I def remember your username xx

 

[Dragonfly]

That only applies if one doesn't have proof, I guess. Even without active spirituality in one's life, I find it hard to comprehend how people can study a little science and not see Intelligent Design at work. re: religion, the main tenets of most faiths is to love one another; terrible.

Addendum: In 18yrs of teaching primary and secondary ed, I can tell you the children who are most screwed up and/or spoiled are usually from faithless families.

What an incredibly uneccessary and offensive comment. I can tell you that several children from faith-based schools have stood out in my memory as being particularly unpleasant individuals to teach. However, I didn't extrapolate and immediately make sweeping generalizations that their behaviour had anything to do with whether or not their families were religious. Why even go there?

Thanks for pulling that comment up. I am shocked to see such a rude narrow minded comment on this forum. Well I choose to behave without God and so do my kids. Dosnt mean we are Screwed up for not having your faith. You seem to be incredibly judgmental and I am glad my child is not your pupil in school.