OT deadly shooting at elementary school

[smelly07]

i wrote the below in another thread in general about this:

its incredibly sad - but i think that if a person was set on doing something they would find the means to get hold of what they need to do so - pre-meditated anyway.

when i was in school in a small town in england all the children age 7-11 including me - were all playing out in a school field on a summers day and a man came to the school fence (the fence only being about 5ft high he could of jumped over) aiming a gun at us - all i remember is the teachers and passers by shouting to lay down - so we all laid flat on the ground and were told to keep our heads down - i remember looking up at him shouting and waving the gun around in an absolute rage apart from that i cant remember much else and no one thankfully was hurt but it happened here in this country- no one can ever be sure who will be capable of such a thing - schools need to tighten up security- its very scary - especially now the media is used so much more who knows what ideas it put's in to other mentally unstable peoples heads.

RIP to all the children and teachers x


and also

I dont really want to say 'normal' but cant think of anything else right now - but no 'normal' 'mentally well' 'wired correctly' human being would do such a thing - more needs to be done on both sides of this coin and i also feel for the brother how awful this is another example of how media can ruin lives.

 

[jenniferttc1]

I've read a few more articles, one was very well organized and detailed. It's confusing, cause they are now saying they don't know if nancy lanza ever worked at the school cause she's not in the database, but teachers somehow remember her. I just hope all the facts and maybe a reason why comes along soon.

 

[staralfur]

Ah I guess the Facebook was correct but the twitter was not. Some poor 16 year old was getting threats/messages on twitter because his name is Ryan Lanza.

 

[Andypanda6570]

Now they are saying Adam Lanza had an altercation at the school the day before the shooting? And they are saying they retrieved info from his house that may be a motive for the shooting. We all have to wait on this , it is just nuts. The father of one of the victims just spoke, it was heartbreaking.. This is so sad

 

[Unbridled]

I have to say, it really irks me that certain news sites are using Asperger's and possible mental illness to--well, not really excuse his actions, but at least explain them. There are millions of people on the autism spectrum and millions more who have been diagnosed with some form of mental illness (depression, bipolar disorder, etc). Yet those people have never and will never hurt a soul in their lives. Adam Lanza, however, gunned down almost thirty people in cold blood. That isn't someone who is, as one news site stated, "afraid of people." That isn't someone who's ill. That's someone who is EVIL. Plain and simple. I'm an atheist, so I don't believe in hell. But I do believe in souls and I do believe in the continuation of the spirit after death. For Adam Lanza, I hope he comes back as something particularly foul. A cockroach, maybe. Or a slug. Something easily smashed under the boot heels of the people whose loved ones he stole away.

 

[xSin]

I have to say, it really irks me that certain news sites are using Asperger's and possible mental illness to--well, not really excuse his actions, but at least explain them. There are millions of people on the autism spectrum and millions more who have been diagnosed with some form of mental illness (depression, bipolar disorder, etc). Yet those people have never and will never hurt a soul in their lives. Adam Lanza, however, gunned down almost thirty people in cold blood. That isn't someone who is, as one news site stated, "afraid of people." That isn't someone who's ill. That's someone who is EVIL. Plain and simple. I'm an atheist, so I don't believe in hell. But I do believe in souls and I do believe in the continuation of the spirit after death. For Adam Lanza, I hope he comes back as something particularly foul. A cockroach, maybe. Or a slug. Something easily smashed under the boot heels of the people whose loved ones he stole away.

YES!!! It's damaging to those who do live with the condition, especially when there's no clear evidence as to whether or not he actually had such a condition! I notice a few sites also have thrown in the almost obligatory "goth" reference as well. :\

 

[Andypanda6570]

Anyone who has half a brain has to know Asperger's would not cause him to do this. I don't know much about Autism , but even I know it wouldn't cause him to do this. Asperger's kids who get upset about something react in the moment not later .They don't go and plan a murder or plot something. There is no evidence of anyone with Asperger's being more prone to commit acts of violence. They should have clarified that if he indeed has Asperbergers , this is why i hate the media

 

[Andypanda6570]

Anyone who has half a brain has to know Asperger's would not cause him to do this. I don't know much about Autism , but even I know it wouldn't cause him to do this. Asperger's kids who get upset about something react in the moment not later .They don't go and plan a murder or plot something. There is no evidence of anyone with Asperger's being more prone to commit acts of violence. They should have clarified that if he indeed has Asperbergers , this is why i hate the media

I shouldn't have said Half a brain, i didn't mean it like that, i just meant if a person looked into it they would see it is not true. Sorry for my wording..

 

[mommy0629]

My first question when I heard the report that the guns were registered to his mother is -Why would this woman have these guns in the first place? Was her son that mentally unstable that she was afraid of him herself? I think the media needs to be really carefull about talking about him having aspergers, obviously that alone did not drive him to do this and it sickens me that they would just come off with that before having the full story. Surely if this person was seriously mentally ill there must be some record of some sort of counseling or something. If not, then idk how his mother (God rest her soul) could not get help for her son and then on top of it have guns in her house.

There's a lot of talk in the media about gun control, I believe in the second amendment but I do agree that the laws aren't strict enough, NO ONE has any need for a semi-automatic weapon aside from the miliary or possibly law enforcement. The average American has no need what so ever for any gun aside from a hunting rifle or a simple handgun, anything beyond that is rediculous. Having said that though, no matter how strict the laws, people will find a way. Drugs are illegal but they're still out there all over the place.

I feel like the biggest issue here is that EVERY school in this country needs security at all times, armed security. If there were an armed police officer on duty at this school, how would this have been different? There are armed guards at big banks and government buildings, you can't get into our court house here without signing in with a valid reason for being there, emptying your pockets and opening your purse, going through a metal detector and getting patted down by and armed police officer. That's since 911 and I dont' even live in a big city, not even close. How can we go to such great lengths to protect those places and not our precious children?? Sounds crazy and rediculous, but it's the world we live in.

For me, both of my children will be homeschooled till the day they graduate. I just don't feel safe sending my kids off to a school this day in age and it's not just this either. You hear on the news all the time about teachers molesting their students and severe bullying leading to suicide etc. This world is full of evil and it's never going to stop and it's just going to keep getting worse and worse. All we can do is do our best to protect our children from it.

 

[Tiff]

Anyone who has half a brain has to know Asperger's would not cause him to do this. I don't know much about Autism , but even I know it wouldn't cause him to do this. Asperger's kids who get upset about something react in the moment not later .They don't go and plan a murder or plot something. There is no evidence of anyone with Asperger's being more prone to commit acts of violence. They should have clarified that if he indeed has Asperbergers , this is why i hate the media

My daughter has autism. You are right, they live in the "now" and most children on the spectrum have difficulty with motor planning - in the sense that it is very hard for them to plan things on their own. Claire has to have a visual schedule just to help her get dressed in the morning.

I don't know if I've ever heard of Autism playing a role in any murder. I might have a look-see though as I could be wrong.

I feel so sick for those poor families.

I do wonder though about the whole gun issue. I will be the first to admit that I don't know exactly what the gun laws state down in the US, someone did tell me that laws vary from state to state. I'd love to have someone explain it to me though!

 

[mommy0629]

Anyone who has half a brain has to know Asperger's would not cause him to do this. I don't know much about Autism , but even I know it wouldn't cause him to do this. Asperger's kids who get upset about something react in the moment not later .They don't go and plan a murder or plot something. There is no evidence of anyone with Asperger's being more prone to commit acts of violence. They should have clarified that if he indeed has Asperbergers , this is why i hate the media

My daughter has autism. You are right, they live in the "now" and most children on the spectrum have difficulty with motor planning - in the sense that it is very hard for them to plan things on their own. Claire has to have a visual schedule just to help her get dressed in the morning.

I don't know if I've ever heard of Autism playing a role in any murder. I might have a look-see though as I could be wrong.

I feel so sick for those poor families.

I do wonder though about the whole gun issue. I will be the first to admit that I don't know exactly what the gun laws state down in the US, someone did tell me that laws vary from state to state. I'd love to have someone explain it to me though!

This is the second amendment to our Constitution:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

And these are the restrictions (people who are NOT allowed to own a gun):

Under the Brady Act, you cannot have a gun for personal or business if you:

1. Were convicted of a crime punishable by being in prison for more than one year;
2. Are a fugitive from justice;
3. Are addicted to, or illegally use, any controlled substance;
4. Have been ruled mentally defective by a court, or are committed to a mental institution;
5. Are an illegal alien living in the United States unlawfully;
6. Received a dishonorable discharge from the U.S. Armed Forces;
7. Renounced your U.S. citizenship, if you are a U.S. citizen;
8. Are subject to a court restraining order that involves your 'intimate partner,' your partner's child, or children; or
9. Were convicted of domestic violence in any court of a misdemeanor.

You have to register to buy/own a firearm and pass these restrictions. The gun used in this tragity was owned/legally registered to the murder's mother. Obviously this monster who did this did NOT legally have posession of a gun, he stole them from someone who did. No matter how strict a law is there will always be people who break it.

 

[Tiff]

Absolutely!

But I wonder as well about storage laws etc. Up here, your gun has to be in a locked box. The bullets are to be in another locked box stored elsewhere as well as the firing mechanism (I forget the term, my hubby explained it to me as he's in the military) is to be locked somewhere else as well.

Also, only the person who has legally obtained the gun is to know the combinations to get into said boxes.

I don't know the particulars of how his mother stored her guns, other than she was a gun enthusiast and taught her kids how to shoot as well. I'm not saying she's to blame of course, the owness on this is on the individual who did the crime (regardless of the means to do it). Like what happened in China as well, when intent to harm is there people will find a way.

 

[mayb_baby]

This has made me so sad the past few days, tearing me up when I read about those poor people, victims/families and witnesses
Cant imagine how they are feeling right now

However in most of these teen/young adult gunmen massacre stories it seems to be a young adult/teen stealing parents/grandparents firearms, just rings out to me that the gun law in the constitution is outdated. I personally think it should be abolished, I mean so many countries have a lot less gun crime where the gun laws are far stricter.
I think the US needs to tighten its gun laws, this has happened too many times in the US

 

[jenniferttc1]

Absolutely!

But I wonder as well about storage laws etc. Up here, your gun has to be in a locked box. The bullets are to be in another locked box stored elsewhere as well as the firing mechanism (I forget the term, my hubby explained it to me as he's in the military) is to be locked somewhere else as well.

Also, only the person who has legally obtained the gun is to know the combinations to get into said boxes.

I don't know the particulars of how his mother stored her guns, other than she was a gun enthusiast and taught her kids how to shoot as well. I'm not saying she's to blame of course, the owness on this is on the individual who did the crime (regardless of the means to do it). Like what happened in China as well, when intent to harm is there people will find a way.

In texas, those rules only apply to in the vehicle. You can have your gun loaded and sitting on your dresser at home and its legal. If you have a CHL you can have the gun ready all the time in your jeans and your vehicle. The laws should be stricter to get your hands on one. But it seems that the people that kill, usually have the gun illegally.

 

[Tiff]

Oops! When I re-read that bolded part, I had meant to say that my hubby has grown up in the military. Not that he's IN it right now. That's what I get for posting while my kiddo was distracting me. Not that it makes that much of a difference, but wanted to correct myself.



Really? Its perfectly legal to have a loaded weapon in the house? That seems so dangerous to me. What's the difference between being in the vehicle or in the home?

 

[smelly07]

Theres a debate on facebook about this - i havent joined in but i am reading it and someone just post the below, i thought it was interesting:

There are 314,947,000 people in the usa
and there are 62,262,000 people in the uk - the below happened in the UK
The Dunblane school massacre. The gunman, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton entered the school armed with four handguns, shooting and killing sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide.
The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself.
The Hungerford massacre occurred in, Berkshire, England, The gunman, 27-year-old Michael Robert Ryan, shot and killed sixteen people including his mother, and wounded fifteen others, then fatally shot himself.
plus there are lots more.
These are the stat's
Number of Murders by firearms in Britain 58 - US 290 murders
Number of Murders by crossbow in Britain 2 -US 10 murders
but when you consider the populations between the countries who says tighter gun laws will even help and that the UK is safer than the USA?

what do you think?

 

[Andypanda6570]

Oops! When I re-read that bolded part, I had meant to say that my hubby has grown up in the military. Not that he's IN it right now. That's what I get for posting while my kiddo was distracting me. Not that it makes that much of a difference, but wanted to correct myself.



Really? Its perfectly legal to have a loaded weapon in the house? That seems so dangerous to me. What's the difference between being in the vehicle or in the home?

Every state is different. My dad is a retired Marine and has a lot of guns, stored safely, but he lives alone, he lives in Florida and he can carry a loaded firearm wherever he goes . I am in New York where you can't carry , only with a special license, which is mostly for former law enforcement . here is the laws for New York :
Gun laws in New York regulate the sale, possession, and use of firearms and ammunition in the state of New York in the United States.
New York is one of the strictest states in the nation with regards to the purchase, possession and carrying of handguns.[1] Most of New York State gun laws are covered in two sections of New York Penal law: article 265 - Firearms and Other Dangerous Weapons; and article 400 - Licensing and Other Provisions Relating to Firearms. These sections include the banning of possession of a handgun, exemptions to the handgun ban, including to those who have a license to carry, possess, hunt with and target shoot, repair, and dispose of firearms.
New York maintains a state level prohibition against the features listed in the now defunct Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[2][3][4] Magazines made after 1994 with a capacity in excess of 10 rounds are banned, as are rifles with two or more of the restricted features (pistol grip, bayonet lug, collapsible or folding stock, flash suppressor, and threaded barrel).[5][6][7]
New York is a "May-Issue" state, in that the individual licensing official has wide latitude and discretion in the issuance of Pistol Licenses, and additionally, has the option of placing a variety of restrictions on the manner and purpose for which the handgun can be carried. This discretion given to local authorities creates a state-wide patchwork of local handgun licensing policies. This diversity creates a climate in which the level of restriction a New York State resident will be required to abide by will vary extremely widely depending on the attitude of the issuing authority. Even those New York State residents who are the beneficiaries of pro-gun local policies (such as 'unrestricted carry' licenses), must still obtain a New York State Pistol License, apply for a purchase document for each handgun purchased, and possess only those handguns that are specifically registered to them.[6][7]
Of all the states that do issue carry pistol licenses, New York State has arguably the strictest handgun licensing policies in the nation.[1] New York City, which is effectively a "No-Issue" jurisdiction for carry pistol licenses,[8] has even stricter laws, including those regulating handguns exclusively kept at home.[9]

 

[Andypanda6570]

When my dad comes to visit here he doesn't bring any guns and he cannot carry, it is against the law. Most owners of guns follow the law perfectly. Even a New York City Police Officer when off duty can only carry his gun in New York, not any other state

 

[Tiff]

I guess I just fail to understand the need to carry a gun on you in the first place. Maybe because its so different up here, but I couldn't imagine wandering around with a loaded weapon on the streets.

Is it really that bad or dangerous down there that there is a legitimate need for it? I'm not trying to slam anyone's culture or anything, just in case that is how this is coming across. Just trying to understand it all.

 

[mayb_baby]

I guess I just fail to understand the need to carry a gun on you in the first place. Maybe because its so different up here, but I couldn't imagine wandering around with a loaded weapon on the streets.

Is it really that bad or dangerous down there that there is a legitimate need for it? I'm not trying to slam anyone's culture or anything, just in case that is how this is coming across. Just trying to understand it all.

I don't see the need either for me the law are there to protect us we don't need to take matters into our own hands but again as you say this is probably also to do with where you are from and what you have been brought up with.