OT deadly shooting at elementary school

[Tasha]

Theres a debate on facebook about this - i havent joined in but i am reading it and someone just post the below, i thought it was interesting:

There are 314,947,000 people in the usa
and there are 62,262,000 people in the uk - the below happened in the UK
The Dunblane school massacre. The gunman, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton entered the school armed with four handguns, shooting and killing sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide.
The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself.
The Hungerford massacre occurred in, Berkshire, England, The gunman, 27-year-old Michael Robert Ryan, shot and killed sixteen people including his mother, and wounded fifteen others, then fatally shot himself.
plus there are lots more.
These are the stat's
Number of Murders by firearms in Britain 58 - US 290 murders
Number of Murders by crossbow in Britain 2 -US 10 murders
but when you consider the populations between the countries who says tighter gun laws will even help and that the UK is safer than the USA?

what do you think?

My thoughts are this is misleading. Yes it has happened in the UK, but no where near as often as the US IMO. The incidences mentioned happened in 1996, 1998 and 1987 respectively. Where as I can think of two mass shootings this year alone (the school and cinema) but have read there has been a third, that I obviously missed.

As for the numbers it doesnt state when (time period) but I am guessing that it is last year this is where they got the information from and equivilant is not the same as the US only having had 290 and 10 https://readersupportednews.org/new...ders-a-year-by-firearms-in-britain-8775-in-us

I think this makes it much easier to understand. The US are at number twelve in the world for gun murders (2.98 per 100k) and the UK at number sixty-five (0.04 per 100k).

ETA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

I personally think that the avaliablity/ease of access does have an impact on how often these things happen.

 

[jenniferttc1]

Oops! When I re-read that bolded part, I had meant to say that my hubby has grown up in the military. Not that he's IN it right now. That's what I get for posting while my kiddo was distracting me. Not that it makes that much of a difference, but wanted to correct myself.



Really? Its perfectly legal to have a loaded weapon in the house? That seems so dangerous to me. What's the difference between being in the vehicle or in the home?

Yes it is, I don't like it cause if there are children in the house. I make my husband keep his clip and gun separate cause of haiden. If someone breaks in, the can just grab the clip and slip it in. I know it's different in every state, but I know here, If someone breaks into your house, you can legally shoot them for protection. With the vehicle, im sure it has to do with road rage and things like that, it would be easy to just grab the loaded gun in anger, if its not loaded there is no way they can do that.

 

[staralfur]

As a PP said, why does anyone need an assault rifle? Something that can fire 100 rounds? Seems excessive and ridiculous. Start with making those inaccessible to the general public.

 

[Tiff]

As a PP said, why does anyone need an assault rifle? Something that can fire 100 rounds? Seems excessive and ridiculous. Start with making those inaccessible to the general public.

Or a glock for that matter.

I did go to a shooting range a few years ago. It was fun! But it was at a gun range, we didn't own the guns and each person had a Range Officer at our stations.

I get that for some people its a pastime and they enjoy it and I wouldn't want them to have that taken away. I do think a few stricter laws wouldn't hurt though.

 

[special_kala]

Theres a debate on facebook about this - i havent joined in but i am reading it and someone just post the below, i thought it was interesting:

There are 314,947,000 people in the usa
and there are 62,262,000 people in the uk - the below happened in the UK
The Dunblane school massacre. The gunman, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton entered the school armed with four handguns, shooting and killing sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide.
The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself.
The Hungerford massacre occurred in, Berkshire, England, The gunman, 27-year-old Michael Robert Ryan, shot and killed sixteen people including his mother, and wounded fifteen others, then fatally shot himself.
plus there are lots more.
These are the stat's
Number of Murders by firearms in Britain 58 - US 290 murders
Number of Murders by crossbow in Britain 2 -US 10 murders
but when you consider the populations between the countries who says tighter gun laws will even help and that the UK is safer than the USA?

what do you think?

My thoughts are this is misleading. Yes it has happened in the UK, but no where near as often as the US IMO. The incidences mentioned happened in 1996, 1998 and 1987 respectively. Where as I can think of two mass shootings this year alone (the school and cinema) but have read there has been a third, that I obviously missed.

As for the numbers it doesnt state when (time period) but I am guessing that it is last year this is where they got the information from and equivilant is not the same as the US only having had 290 and 10 https://readersupportednews.org/new...ders-a-year-by-firearms-in-britain-8775-in-us

I think this makes it much easier to understand. The US are at number twelve in the world for gun murders (2.98 per 100k) and the UK at number sixty-five (0.04 per 100k).

ETA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

I personally think that the avaliablity/ease of access does have an impact on how often these things happen.

I agree.

The fact guns are much harder to hey hold of here has a massive impact on the likelihood of this happening in the UK.

In Connecticut the waiting time for a gun is 2 weeks. You don't even need a licence or permit for rifles like he used.

If I for example snapped I could no way do this much damage in such a short amount of time. 2 minutes to kill 20 children

There was a attack in China the same 22 children were injured by a man with a knife, none died.

Tighter gun control would make a massive difference.

I don't understand hey anyone needs a gun tbh. Certainly a rifle like that. If you hunt then you should have to rent one and give it back.

 

[special_kala]

I don't like how the fact he had autism and aspergers is being mentioned so much in articles.I've never read anything to suggest people with those conditions are any more likely to become very violent like this but now it will be associated with this boy and people with them will be judged even more.

 

[Tiff]

I agree.

I touched on that earlier, Claire has autism and I certainly don't like it being thrown around like that either.

 

[tina3747]

Theres a debate on facebook about this - i havent joined in but i am reading it and someone just post the below, i thought it was interesting:

There are 314,947,000 people in the usa
and there are 62,262,000 people in the uk - the below happened in the UK
The Dunblane school massacre. The gunman, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton entered the school armed with four handguns, shooting and killing sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide.
The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself.
The Hungerford massacre occurred in, Berkshire, England, The gunman, 27-year-old Michael Robert Ryan, shot and killed sixteen people including his mother, and wounded fifteen others, then fatally shot himself.
plus there are lots more.
These are the stat's
Number of Murders by firearms in Britain 58 - US 290 murders
Number of Murders by crossbow in Britain 2 -US 10 murders
but when you consider the populations between the countries who says tighter gun laws will even help and that the UK is safer than the USA?

what do you think?

My thoughts are this is misleading. Yes it has happened in the UK, but no where near as often as the US IMO. The incidences mentioned happened in 1996, 1998 and 1987 respectively. Where as I can think of two mass shootings this year alone (the school and cinema) but have read there has been a third, that I obviously missed.

As for the numbers it doesnt state when (time period) but I am guessing that it is last year this is where they got the information from and equivilant is not the same as the US only having had 290 and 10 https://readersupportednews.org/new...ders-a-year-by-firearms-in-britain-8775-in-us

I think this makes it much easier to understand. The US are at number twelve in the world for gun murders (2.98 per 100k) and the UK at number sixty-five (0.04 per 100k).

ETA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

I personally think that the avaliablity/ease of access does have an impact on how often these things happen.

I agree.

The fact guns are much harder to hey hold of here has a massive impact on the likelihood of this happening in the UK.

In Connecticut the waiting time for a gun is 2 weeks. You don't even need a licence or permit for rifles like he used.

If I for example snapped I could no way do this much damage in such a short amount of time. 2 minutes to kill 20 children

There was a attack in China the same 22 children were injured by a man with a knife, none died.

Tighter gun control would make a massive difference.

I don't understand hey anyone needs a gun tbh. Certainly a rifle like that. If you hunt then you should have to rent one and give it back.

Did you see a programme a few weeks ago, can't remember what it was or which channel it was but it said that the majority of guns that are confiscated or found to be used in crimes in this country are guns that are legally bought within the US. Quite scary.
I've heard a few ladies on here saying they own a gun and keep it in the house for protection... Honestly I think I would do whatever to protect my family but owning a gun seems so drastic.

 

[special_kala]

It's a vicious circle the police have guns...so criminals have guns ....so everyday people have guns.

It just escalates

 

[special_kala]

Reading the comments on articles is scary. A lot of people seem to think more guns is the answer, teachers should carry guns, head teachers should have combat training. It's madness.

 

[tina3747]

Reading the comments on articles is scary. A lot of people seem to think more guns is the answer, teachers should carry guns, head teachers should have combat training. It's madness.

I've just read that about the teachers having guns!

What if the teacher goes in a rampage?!

 

[special_kala]

Exactly or a student gets hold of it.

The mother had 6 guns in the house. My dh said its a hobby and people collect them but surely in that case bullets should be much harder to get hold off.

 

[staralfur]

The deadliest weapon available when the second amendment was written was a musket. Times have changed and so should the laws.

Guns seem to be a part of American culture though. I live 45 minutes from the border and I don't (and will never) keep a gun in my house, neither does anyone I know. And yet just going 45 minutes south, I bet a lot of people own a gun as it seems to be pretty common.

Makes me want to watch Bowling For Columbine again. Michael Moore is urging everyone to download it (for free) because it holds truer now than ever.

 

[louandivy]

Theres a debate on facebook about this - i havent joined in but i am reading it and someone just post the below, i thought it was interesting:

There are 314,947,000 people in the usa
and there are 62,262,000 people in the uk - the below happened in the UK
The Dunblane school massacre. The gunman, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton entered the school armed with four handguns, shooting and killing sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide.
The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself.
The Hungerford massacre occurred in, Berkshire, England, The gunman, 27-year-old Michael Robert Ryan, shot and killed sixteen people including his mother, and wounded fifteen others, then fatally shot himself.
plus there are lots more.
These are the stat's
Number of Murders by firearms in Britain 58 - US 290 murders
Number of Murders by crossbow in Britain 2 -US 10 murders
but when you consider the populations between the countries who says tighter gun laws will even help and that the UK is safer than the USA?

what do you think?

My thoughts are this is misleading. Yes it has happened in the UK, but no where near as often as the US IMO. The incidences mentioned happened in 1996, 1998 and 1987 respectively. Where as I can think of two mass shootings this year alone (the school and cinema) but have read there has been a third, that I obviously missed.

As for the numbers it doesnt state when (time period) but I am guessing that it is last year this is where they got the information from and equivilant is not the same as the US only having had 290 and 10 https://readersupportednews.org/new...ders-a-year-by-firearms-in-britain-8775-in-us

I think this makes it much easier to understand. The US are at number twelve in the world for gun murders (2.98 per 100k) and the UK at number sixty-five (0.04 per 100k).

ETA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

I personally think that the avaliablity/ease of access does have an impact on how often these things happen.

I agree. Kind of like how suicide rates decreased significantly after old coal-burning gas ovens were replaced with safer ones. I think impulsivity plays a part and also, no other easily obtainable weapon can produce so many fatalities as a gun - you only have to look at the (still unbelievably tragic) incident in China that also occurred this weekend. 22 children stabbed but they will recover and get to go home to their parents, NOTHING kills so easily as guns and the idea that gun control is pointless because 'evil people will kill either way' is insane to me.

I saw this picture and really agree

https://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/guns-health-care-82880109353.jpeg

 

[Tiff]

I agree Lou.

I've been actually having this same convo with a friend who is all for more guns and is in agreeance that the teachers should have guns to defend their classrooms. It seems so strange to me!

If I were to be caught in a duel of sorts between a teacher and an attacker I'd far more rather that they duke it out with knives rather than guns. There's always the chance for students to be hit with stray bullets iykwim? And who's to say that the teacher is going to be an adequate shot?

So more gun training for teachers? I'm not exactly sure where it ends if I'm honest. So say another country has nukes and has the potential to attack. Does that mean every other country should then get nukes to defend themselves?

 

[special_kala]

The only thing that kills as quickly and easily is bombs which you can't just stop off and by the next time you go grocery shopping.

Me and my husband were talking and he was saying that knives are just as dangerous and to think how many we have in our house alone but you can outrun a man with a knife. There needs to be close contact for a knife attack. This man didn't even need to step away from the door frame I'm sure.

The 2 teachers who confronted him in the hall stood no chance against him, with a knife for example they could likely have over powered them.

Therrs a reason soldiers use guns most impact least contact.

 

[louandivy]

Its crazy! In an already-panicked situation in a crowded school, do we really need more people shooting guns under pressure?! And it just means there is yet ANOTHER place that kids could have access to a gun if they really wanted to.

I was also very uncomfortable with all the interviews with child witnesses seemingly filmed right after the attack. Seems very exploitative and the last thing those poor traumatised children needed was to be hounded by strangers questioning them about something they can't possibly understand.

 

[louandivy]

The only thing that kills as quickly and easily is bombs which you can't just stop off and by the next time you go grocery shopping.

Me and my husband were talking and he was saying that knives are just as dangerous and to think how many we have in our house alone but you can outrun a man with a knife. There needs to be close contact for a knife attack. This man didn't even need to step away from the door frame I'm sure.

The 2 teachers who confronted him in the hall stood no chance against him, with a knife for example they could likely have over powered them.

Therrs a reason soldiers use guns most impact least contact.

Exactly. Plus without sounding crude, guns are the more 'cowardly' option as literally all you have to do is stand from a safe distance and shoot. Its a very detached and removed way of killing someone. Urgh I hate that this even has to be discussed, I just cannot even imagine.

 

[special_kala]

It's definitely the cowardly option, the people who do this usually kill themselves before the police even get there. They are cowards without the option of guns most wouldn't be brave (odd word to use I know) to act on their feelings and might even give enough time for them to get help.

 

[special_kala]

It seems those who do this are seen as weak by their peers. This is how they show their strength and control I guess.

It's sad for the gunman also (although nothing compared to the pain he caused others), he should not have felt this was the way out or the way to be seen. To do this a person must be very confused and hurting themselves if only this had been seen in time and prevented but that's where the accessibility of guns let's people like him down. He snapped and the option was too readily available.