parents who dont vaccinate your babies??

[pinklightbulb]

Then a newborn (or anyone compromised) will be at risk anyway, as vaccinated children can and do still shed/spread illness Not all vaccines take. And nobody ever really bothers following up to check. Even if they did, vaccination isn't a guarantee. My brother is deaf as a result of Mum being vaccinated 3x against rubella and it never taking.

Can you link to some evidence of vaccine shedding? From my reading, it seems to be extremely uncommon. Certainly nothing like the risk from 'wild' infection.

No, but it's still a risk. Vaccinated kids do get these illnesses, but often in a milder form. That doesn't mean they're passing it on to someone compromised in a milder form, through The immuno-compromised person will still get the full weight of the illness. A vaccine not taking is also well known to happen. Has anyone ever checked to see if their LO truly is covered? If not, how do they know?

ETA: I've been told by my doctor that I should not vaccinate Eamon when Liam was newborn due to risk of shedding. I don't know how common it is, just that obviously it can happen.

 

[StranjeGirl]

I think people that choose not to vaccinate should also take time to consider that if they do not vaccinate their own children, they are putting other peoples lives (eg newborn babies) at risk too. Illnesses such as mumps and measles etc are on the rise because fewer people are vaccinating.

If say a child who isnt vaccinated is around a child who is.. then wheres the risk ? Wouldnt the child who is vaccinated be protected be against the unvaccinated child?

Oh, THIS. So, so, so much this. I have never understood why my un-vaxed child is putting a vaxxed one at risk. How?? Lol. It makes No Sense.

It's because if EVERYONE did this (not vaccinate) we would have a problem. So I personally feel that an non-vaccinated child is benefiting from everyone else getting vaccinated. If there is a reason such as a family history of not responding well to the vaccine, or even a family history of autism for that matter (even though there isn't a ton of evidence to support it, I get the fear if your child is already at risk for autism) then I get not vaccinating, but if there are no unusual reasons like that then I feel that people not getting their children vaccinated are simply getting the benefits of other people getting vaccinated. I know it's a really scary decision and I freaked out and questioned myself every time dd needed to get shots(and I will for all her shots), but in the end I felt it was the right thing to do for her and society. So basically I do see why people get upset at those who choose not to vaccinate (unless it is an unusual circumstance like mentioned above) because it is scary for most all of us and many of us choose to do it for the overall health of all children, not just ours.

 

[Larkspur]

I should have clerified better.. i wasnt talking about newborns.. i meant older children.. like toddlers, preschoolers etc...

The first dose of MMR is not even administered until they are toddlers, so all kids are at risk until they are 15-18 months old. And the second dose is not until four years old, meaning about six percent of kids don't develop close to full resistance until then.

 

[ukgirl23]

What abiut children who have egg allergies? Egg whites are the main ingrediant of vaccines it is the protein... so if a child is allergic to egg can they no have the vaccine? Also if a child grows up and makes a personal choice to have his or her vaccines is it toomlate? Can vaccines be given at anyage like when we go on holiday?

 

[pinklightbulb]

I think people that choose not to vaccinate should also take time to consider that if they do not vaccinate their own children, they are putting other peoples lives (eg newborn babies) at risk too. Illnesses such as mumps and measles etc are on the rise because fewer people are vaccinating.

If say a child who isnt vaccinated is around a child who is.. then wheres the risk ? Wouldnt the child who is vaccinated be protected be against the unvaccinated child?

Oh, THIS. So, so, so much this. I have never understood why my un-vaxed child is putting a vaxxed one at risk. How?? Lol. It makes No Sense.

It's because if EVERYONE did this (not vaccinate) we would have a problem. So I personally feel that an non-vaccinated child is benefiting from everyone else getting vaccinated. If there is a reason such as a family history of not responding well to the vaccine, or even a family history of autism for that matter (even though there isn't a ton of evidence to support it, I get the fear if your child is already at risk for autism) then I get not vaccinating, but if there are no unusual reasons like that then I feel that people not getting their children vaccinated are simply getting the benefits of other people getting vaccinated. I know it's a really scary decision and I freaked out and questioned myself every time dd needed to get shots(and I will for all her shots), but in the end I felt it was the right thing to do for her and society. So basically I do see why people get upset at those who choose not to vaccinate (unless it is an unusual circumstance like mentioned above) because it is scary for most all of us and many of us choose to do it for the overall health of all children, not just ours.

As it happens, my family has a history of vaccines not taking (hence my profoundly deaf brother after Mum contracted rubella in pregnancy) and also autism (my OH's oldest son has it).

I chose not to vaccinate for various reasons. It isn't anyone else's problem. I will warn other mothers before playdates . I don't send Eamon in blind and then tell the other mum he isn't done. I state this upfront and if she chooses not to continue with the playdate I accept that. I know my choice will not always be looked upon nicely.

And as for it being a scary decision, why should it be if it's as safe as everyone says it is? It shouldn't be at all, if that's the case.

 

[ChimChims]

Did they even have the chix pox vaccine when we were kids? I don't think they did, or at least I thought it was newer than that. When my sister got chicken pox my mom put the rest of us in her bed to sleep for one night at a time so we all had it at once and got over with it. I looked the worst - had more pox than everyone - but my sister seemed to suffer the most. Looking back, it was kind of funny how marked up we all were. Those blisters leave scars, for sure. I got my daughter the vaccine for it, and she still got a teensy case of it - the tiniest little bumps ever - and was over it quickly. If it wasn't the pox, I don't know what else it was. She also had Roseolla (is that the right one?) so badly that they thought she had the measles, but the blood test showed that it wasn't.

 

[StranjeGirl]

Then a newborn (or anyone compromised) will be at risk anyway, as vaccinated children can and do still shed/spread illness Not all vaccines take. And nobody ever really bothers following up to check. Even if they did, vaccination isn't a guarantee. My brother is deaf as a result of Mum being vaccinated 3x against rubella and it never taking.

Sorry about your brother Maybe in your case due to family history it would be better not to vaccinate, but for the most part the risk of a newborn etc getting something will be greatly reduced with the more who are vaccinated. Yes some don't take, and some spread anyway, but a LOT less than if no children were vaccinated.

 

[Larkspur]

I just want to add, I don't see why it's considered 'unreasonable' or none of my business to care whether other kids are unvaccinated as long as *mine* is.

I see it as a public health issue. The larger the number of unvaccinated people, the higher the total risk to society from diseases. Even if that's not *my* kid, other children who cannot or are not vaccinated for one reason or another are put at greater risk.

I mean, my child is well-fed and warm and has everything he needs. So am I not meant to care about child poverty because *my* kid is fine?

 

[staralfur]

I think we're all aware that vaccines carry risks. No one here is saying they're 100% safe all the time. There's a chance my baby may have an adverse reaction to any vaccine and I am well aware of that, so yes, it's scary not knowing if she'll be in the small percentage of babies who suffer a severe reaction.

(insert bitchy flower smiley)

ETA: Still not as scary as my baby getting meningitis when I could have prevented it. In a perfect world we wouldn't have to make such decisions but unfortunately we do.

 

[ukgirl23]

Do any of you have school age children? Passing a kid at the park on the slide who has an illness isnt likel to get your kid sick unless they cough or sneeze at them. But kids in schools ... omg.. their illnesses spread like wild fire. My son is four and they all touch their mouths and pick their noses and touch the toys then put their fingers back in their mouths lol its a germ fest... that is why we call the first six months of school the illness phase because it takes a good six months for them to build up an immunity to the new germs. This is how illness is spread easily in children and why children are made to wash hands.

Is not vaccinating the same typically as saying to your child... dont bother washing your hands after having a poo because you need o build up an immune system to ecoli? OR that toilet bugs in the long term wont do them much harm but washing their hands in soaps and chemicals which kill bacteria is worse because of the ingredients...

I am not trying to offend anyone its a genuine curiosity x

 

[pinklightbulb]

I just want to add, I don't see why it's considered 'unreasonable' or none of my business to care whether other kids are unvaccinated as long as *mine* is.

I see it as a public health issue. The larger the number of unvaccinated people, the higher the total risk to society from diseases. Even if that's not *my* kid, other children who cannot or are not vaccinated for one reason or another are put at greater risk.

I mean, my child is well-fed and warm and has everything he needs. So am I not meant to care about child poverty because *my* kid is fine?

Well, my sons certainly don't live in poverty (lol, I know you aren't saying that but I found it an odd thing to say).

What if I were to say I feel sorry for FF babies as they didn't get the antibodies my sons or any BF baby did? Maybe I do, but it isn't my place to say that, or judge the mother for her reasons to FF (and I FF now to be clear). It wouldn't be nice of me at all to state that to any FF mum.

So why say you worry for my non-vaxxed sons just because you feel your child is more protected than them? Do you know this? Does any BF mum truly know her child has a better immune system than an FF child? No. Without proof, there is no argument, to me.

You can feel how you like. But coming down like a shower of shit on mothers who didn't make the same choice doesn't seem fair at all to me. Maybe they don't see vaccination as being safe, or can't do it, or have other reasons. Same as a mum who FF. Lots of reasons apply and one size doesn't fit all as to why.

Choices are just that. Vaccination is not mandatory. I will never understand the mentality that it should be.

 

[L.A Mommy]

I think people that choose not to vaccinate should also take time to consider that if they do not vaccinate their own children, they are putting other peoples lives (eg newborn babies) at risk too. Illnesses such as mumps and measles etc are on the rise because fewer people are vaccinating.

If say a child who isnt vaccinated is around a child who is.. then wheres the risk ? Wouldnt the child who is vaccinated be protected be against the unvaccinated child?

Oh, THIS. So, so, so much this. I have never understood why my un-vaxed child is putting a vaxxed one at risk. How?? Lol. It makes No Sense.

Exactly!!

 

[Randianne]

Did they even have the chix pox vaccine when we were kids? I don't think they did, or at least I thought it was newer than that. When my sister got chicken pox my mom put the rest of us in her bed to sleep for one night at a time so we all had it at once and got over with it. I looked the worst - had more pox than everyone - but my sister seemed to suffer the most. Looking back, it was kind of funny how marked up we all were. Those blisters leave scars, for sure. I got my daughter the vaccine for it, and she still got a teensy case of it - the tiniest little bumps ever - and was over it quickly. If it wasn't the pox, I don't know what else it was. She also had Roseolla (is that the right one?) so badly that they thought she had the measles, but the blood test showed that it wasn't.

No. Our moms has chicken pox parties to make sure we got it. It wasn't considered some horribly scary disease. It can have severe complications, but they're rare. I understand vaccinating against diseases that routinely have serious consequences. However, vaccinating against every childhood disease is overdoing it. It's not good for kids to never get sick. I don't want my child to have a weak immune system later in life because it was never given an opportunity to strengthen.

Is anyone else considering have titers drawn before getting the second round of vaccines during the school age years? It's not routinely done, but if it means she doesn't have to have additional doses I'm all for it. I had it done instead of getting the chicken pox vaccine (my workplace was requiring it) and it showed that I was already immune.

 

[staralfur]

Is anyone else considering have titers drawn before getting the second round of vaccines during the school age years? It's not routinely done, but if it means she doesn't have to have additional doses I'm all for it. I had it done instead of getting the chicken pox vaccine (my workplace was requiring it) and it showed that I was already immune.

Interesting idea. Have you mentioned it to your LO's doctor as a possibility? I'm not sure how well-received that would be, but if it was an option I'd be interested!

 

[Randianne]

Is anyone else considering have titers drawn before getting the second round of vaccines during the school age years? It's not routinely done, but if it means she doesn't have to have additional doses I'm all for it. I had it done instead of getting the chicken pox vaccine (my workplace was requiring it) and it showed that I was already immune.

Interesting idea. Have you mentioned it to your LO's doctor as a possibility? I'm not sure how well-received that would be, but if it was an option I'd be interested!

She looked at me like I had two heads, but she said she would do it. I will have to pay up front for the tests because insurance won't cover it (she made sure to mention that -- I hate that medical conversations so often include money). It won't be an issue for the schools because my state lets you opt out for personal reasons.

I'll have to see when the time comes. Some of the research I've read suggests the boosters of some vaccines are usually unnecessary. That's a few years down the road though, so who knows what research will be out by then.

 

[Larkspur]

What if I were to say I feel sorry for FF babies as they didn't get the antibodies my sons or any BF baby did? Maybe I do, but it isn't my place to say that, or judge the mother for her reasons to FF (and I FF now to be clear). It wouldn't be nice of me at all to state that to any FF mum.

So why say you worry for my non-vaxxed sons just because you feel your child is more protected than them? Do you know this? Does any BF mum truly know her child has a better immune system than an FF child? No. Without proof, there is no argument, to me.

You can feel how you like. But coming down like a shower of shit on mothers who didn't make the same choice doesn't seem fair at all to me. Maybe they don't see vaccination as being safe, or can't do it, or have other reasons. Same as a mum who FF. Lots of reasons apply and one size doesn't fit all as to why.

Choices are just that. Vaccination is not mandatory. I will never understand the mentality that it should be.

Well, the difference I see for a start is that FF is a solely individual choice. It has the potential to affect one person - the FF child. So that really is an individual choice for mothers. Obviously the vaccination issue is different as it has the possibility to affect others.

Those others include the children of parents who choose not to vax, sure. But not just them - there are plenty of other children who cannot be vaxxed for one reason or another who may also be affected. Am I not allowed to think it's unfair on them to be exposed to increased risk from a growing unvaxxed population?

Also, I have never come down like a shower of shit on anyone. I try very hard to be civil in these debates, and stick to evidence-based discussion, so it's kinda unfair to put that on me.

 

[Randianne]

What if I were to say I feel sorry for FF babies as they didn't get the antibodies my sons or any BF baby did? Maybe I do, but it isn't my place to say that, or judge the mother for her reasons to FF (and I FF now to be clear). It wouldn't be nice of me at all to state that to any FF mum.

So why say you worry for my non-vaxxed sons just because you feel your child is more protected than them? Do you know this? Does any BF mum truly know her child has a better immune system than an FF child? No. Without proof, there is no argument, to me.

You can feel how you like. But coming down like a shower of shit on mothers who didn't make the same choice doesn't seem fair at all to me. Maybe they don't see vaccination as being safe, or can't do it, or have other reasons. Same as a mum who FF. Lots of reasons apply and one size doesn't fit all as to why.

Choices are just that. Vaccination is not mandatory. I will never understand the mentality that it should be.

Well, the difference I see for a start is that FF is a solely individual choice. It has the potential to affect one person - the FF child. So that really is an individual choice for mothers. Obviously the vaccination issue is different as it has the possibility to affect others.

Those others include the children of parents who choose not to vax, sure. But not just them - there are plenty of other children who cannot be vaxxed for one reason or another who may also be affected. Am I not allowed to think it's unfair on them to be exposed to increased risk from a growing unvaxxed population?

Also, I have never come down like a shower of shit on anyone. I try very hard to be civil in these debates, and stick to evidence-based discussion, so it's kinda unfair to put that on me.

I think it goes both ways. The parents who don't vaccinate firmly believe that vaccines are harmful. Would you harm your own child if you think doing so might help other children? That's an insanely difficult choice. We're all programmed to protect our own children. It's not that they aren't considering other children, it's that they're not willing to poison their own. I totally understand that.

My biggest fear is that they're going to come out and say that a previously 'safe' vaccine is harmful. Gardasil is a good example. The CDC says on their web site that Gardasil had increased reporting of blood clots. Yet somehow the 2011 study says there is no link? The conflicting information is confusing at best, and it's made a lot of people skeptical. I know my child will never, ever get it. If other moms feel half as strongly about all vaccines as I do about Gardasil, I don't see how their conscience would allow them to give them to their children.

 

[cat lover]

there was a case of whooping cough at my daughters nursery a while back. a problem for my vaccinsted daughter? no. a problem for my not yet vaccinated 3 week old who i had the issue of not daring take with me to drop off and collect? could have been. vaccinating wont adversely affect others. not vaccinating may

 

[overcomer79]

Then a newborn (or anyone compromised) will be at risk anyway, as vaccinated children can and do still shed/spread illness Not all vaccines take. And nobody ever really bothers following up to check. Even if they did, vaccination isn't a guarantee. My brother is deaf as a result of Mum being vaccinated 3x against rubella and it never taking.

Can you link to some evidence of vaccine shedding? From my reading, it seems to be extremely uncommon. Certainly nothing like the risk from 'wild' infection.

No, but it's still a risk. Vaccinated kids do get these illnesses, but often in a milder form. That doesn't mean they're passing it on to someone compromised in a milder form, through The immuno-compromised person will still get the full weight of the illness. A vaccine not taking is also well known to happen. Has anyone ever checked to see if their LO truly is covered? If not, how do they know?

ETA: I've been told by my doctor that I should not vaccinate Eamon when Liam was newborn due to risk of shedding. I don't know how common it is, just that obviously it can happen.

this is an interesting point. A few days before my daughter was born, my husband got a new job. He didn't have his immunization records so they had to do an immunization screening. He was bragging to the nurse about having a daughter born in a few days and she went off saying that if his immunities were low that she would have to talk to a dr b/c of this. We called the pediatrician and and would haven't gotten him involved as it meant his job. The pediatrician did say there was minimal risk associated with this but didn't feel like he shouldn't become unemployed due to this and should take vax if he needed to. He was upset over the nurse but fortunately his immunities were good.

I was also told that when my daughter gets the MMR shot, that we would have to delay seeing my ill dad for a few weeks (that's if he makes it until she is a year) due to mmr being live virus. I think the only two he said was a concern was the pox and mmr. But that is an interesting point and I have heard that before.

 

[overcomer79]

What abiut children who have egg allergies? Egg whites are the main ingrediant of vaccines it is the protein... so if a child is allergic to egg can they no have the vaccine? Also if a child grows up and makes a personal choice to have his or her vaccines is it toomlate? Can vaccines be given at anyage like when we go on holiday?

It isn't too late to get vaccines. When I entered college, I was one shy of my MMR shot so I got the last boost when I was 18. And as I said before, my husband had to show immunities or he would have been vaccinated in July.