Pathetic... Doesn't want to work because...

[Yorkshiredad]

I can only echo on what has been said by Donna Laura and Teal...

And in some cases the relationship between a child and father is less important, TO THE FATHER! Not every man wants to be part of the childs life therefore there is no relationship that would class as important...

I completely agree, the point I was making (Badly, it would appear) is that people automatically assume that a mother's bond is stronger in every scenario just because they carried the child and gave birth to it.

 

[Donna35]

From on and offline it seems to be much more uncommon for a mother to abandon her children. There's also a degree of taboo for being a single mother but a single father is praised.

I agree with Laura and Donna about the bond being stronger. From my own experience my baby's father has got on with his life as if it never happened. I felt a connection to my child while I was pregnant, which is something men, obviously, won't experience. Not to mention that a father has no rights to the baby at all until he/she is born.

I am not a stay at home mum but I don't feel that worker has any detriment to my bond with my son.

This is exactly my point, every case is individual, and it's when people assume a mother's bond is always stronger that it pisses me off (I'm not suggesting the OP insinuated this, I think this whole thing has just gotten out of hand)

Fathers should have rights to the baby from the moment of conception though, it gives reckless and/or selfish mothers too much opportunity to "play god"

The bolded bit - I read something in another thread today where a poster said she had been taught by a law professor that 'With all "rights" come "obligations"' Yes the FOB has a right to the child BUT what about his obligations to the child?? I am in no way having a go at you here but you are so defensive towards this man's 'right' to see the child - what about the child's right to being supported financially by their father?? It is all too easy for men to shirk this responsibility but yet whine on about their right to have the child so many nights a week - again I don't mean you but this father in particular, and also to an extent my own FOB. He has access to our son, again more than a court would order but to further their relationship I allowed it but doesn't support him financially, never has, never worked blah blah so I can entirely see where the OP is coming from.

 

[CaptainMummy]

Have just looked at this thread, when I wrote it, I said nothing negative about the bond between my LO and her dad. He does love her to pieces and I know he takes good care of her. Basically, it was just a rant because he has always been lazy and never bothered getting a job. He constantly says things like "I wish I could do this/that or get her this/that" etc... but its never going to happen if he just sits and moans all day and doesnt bother to look for work.

Personally, and from what Ive heard millions of other people say, is that a child needs its mother. When I told my dad about our agreement, he was totally shocked and said that at her age, she needed me more than what she was getting (4 nights a week) or course thats not to say that it is different in some circumstances, but I know that anybody I asked would say the same, that a child needs its mother first and foremost. This does not make me selfish at all. If I was selfish, do you really think I would have just allowed him to have my LO 3 nights a week? That was very hard for me, and I certainly dont think its selfish at all.

 

[Laura2919]

Did I ever say that men can automatically go about their lives happily. No. And yes a bond IS different! We carry that child for 9 or so months, a mothers bond is different to a fathers bond. I personally don't care if you think different. I know dads that are away from their children and they hate that fact but even they agree that taking a child away from its mother for longer than a few nights a week wouldn't be beneficial to their child/ren!!!

Don't put words into my mouth. I haven't said dads happily go about their lives with only seeing their children often but like I said sometimes when a relationship breaks down there are things we don't like that have to be done!

Oh and read again! Not once did I say a fathers relationship with a child is less important I said it is DIFFERENT.

My apologies if I offended you, I was just trying to state that it pisses me off that "society" assumes a child is better of with it's mother being the primary parent when that isn't always the case.

However, answer me this, if a child has 2 parents that are both equally capable of caring for it, both can provide a roof over it's head and food in it's mouth, which parent should be the primary parent (Ie; have him/her 5 out of 7 days)?

The mother! Because we carried that child and we raised that child. Its been that way for years. Unless proved otherwise the child belongs with the mother. Maybe thats just because of the way its been for years and years. As the OP said a child needs its mother.

FOB pays his maintenance money calls a couple of times a week so should he be entitled to tell me where my children go to school, what they eat, where they go and who they see? No. Because he makes no effort to be a father to those girls. Men should NOT be given the right from conception because we do all the hard work and the reap the benefits. How very unfair of you to suggest such a thing!

 

[Laura2919]

I can only echo on what has been said by Donna Laura and Teal...

And in some cases the relationship between a child and father is less important, TO THE FATHER! Not every man wants to be part of the childs life therefore there is no relationship that would class as important...

I completely agree, the point I was making (Badly, it would appear) is that people automatically assume that a mother's bond is stronger in every scenario just because they carried the child and gave birth to it.

It probably is stronger because you will NEVER understand the just how precious carrying a life is, you'll never understand exactly what happens to a woman's body when they conceive a child, you will never understand just what it feels like when that tiny little life moves for the first time inside a woman nor will you ever understand that to carry a life inside a body for 9 or so months is the best gift you can ever be given.
You might think you understand but you never will. Thats where our bonds are different.

I look at my girls and I know I carried them, they grew inside me, they have his personality and some of his traits but it was me that enabled them to have the life they do because without my body they wouldn't be here everything you feel for your LO your ex partner probably feels double!

 

[Yorkshiredad]

Have just looked at this thread, when I wrote it, I said nothing negative about the bond between my LO and her dad. He does love her to pieces and I know he takes good care of her. Basically, it was just a rant because he has always been lazy and never bothered getting a job. He constantly says things like "I wish I could do this/that or get her this/that" etc... but its never going to happen if he just sits and moans all day and doesnt bother to look for work.

Personally, and from what Ive heard millions of other people say, is that a child needs its mother. When I told my dad about our agreement, he was totally shocked and said that at her age, she needed me more than what she was getting (4 nights a week) or course thats not to say that it is different in some circumstances, but I know that anybody I asked would say the same, that a child needs its mother first and foremost. This does not make me selfish at all. If I was selfish, do you really think I would have just allowed him to have my LO 3 nights a week? That was very hard for me, and I certainly dont think its selfish at all.

I agree with the getting a job part of your original post, I work an average 60 hour week on the weeks I don't have the little man and about half that when I do have him (I work from home and at night when he's here) so there's never an excuse not to work.

None of what I've said was aimed directly at anyone, it was more of a generalization, but I stand by my original point of a child needs a parent and not necessarily it's mother, it all depends on the circumstances.

I just hate how the mother has far more of a say in the upbringing of a child than the father, even in situations where both parents are equally able to care for said child.

 

[Yorkshiredad]

The mother! Because we carried that child and we raised that child. Its been that way for years. Unless proved otherwise the child belongs with the mother. Maybe thats just because of the way its been for years and years. As the OP said a child needs its mother.

FOB pays his maintenance money calls a couple of times a week so should he be entitled to tell me where my children go to school, what they eat, where they go and who they see? No. Because he makes no effort to be a father to those girls. Men should NOT be given the right from conception because we do all the hard work and the reap the benefits. How very unfair of you to suggest such a thing!

No offence meant to you, but this is exactly what vexes me so much. In your situation I fully accept that you should be the primary parent, if a man or woman isn't there for their kids then they should have no rights over them, but when both parents are equally capable of caring for a child and when they both devote themselves entirely to them it shouldn't be automatically assumed that the mother should be the primary parent.

I have nothing but respect for women carrying their children for 9 months, I can't even imagine how hard, both mentally and physically, this is. But that does not give a woman the right to choose if and when a father can see his children (Again, not aiming this at anyone, merely generalizing assuming both parents are equal)

 

[Laura2919]

The mother! Because we carried that child and we raised that child. Its been that way for years. Unless proved otherwise the child belongs with the mother. Maybe thats just because of the way its been for years and years. As the OP said a child needs its mother.

FOB pays his maintenance money calls a couple of times a week so should he be entitled to tell me where my children go to school, what they eat, where they go and who they see? No. Because he makes no effort to be a father to those girls. Men should NOT be given the right from conception because we do all the hard work and the reap the benefits. How very unfair of you to suggest such a thing!

No offence meant to you, but this is exactly what vexes me so much. In your situation I fully accept that you should be the primary parent, if a man or woman isn't there for their kids then they should have no rights over them, but when both parents are equally capable of caring for a child and when they both devote themselves entirely to them it shouldn't be automatically assumed that the mother should be the primary parent.

I have nothing but respect for women carrying their children for 9 months, I can't even imagine how hard, both mentally and physically, this is. But that does not give a woman the right to choose if and when a father can see his children (Again, not aiming this at anyone, merely generalizing assuming both parents are equal)

But it isn't about choosing when the dad sees his children a court will decide that and even then you'll be given every other weekend but surely you can't think it is beneficial for a child to spend half a week at one home and half a week at another! What about friends, family, things that are happening. It's not something that would work for many families.

I have a friend who has her son one week and then her ex husband takes him the next week. He lives two completely seperate lives, do you think that is fair? She's forever posting status's saying she misses him and can't wait for him to be back. I wouldn't want to live like that! I'm not saying that I deserve more in life than FOB.

 

[Yorkshiredad]

But it isn't about choosing when the dad sees his children but surely you can't think it is beneficial for a child to spend half a week at one home and half a week at another! What about friends, family, things that are happening. It's not something that would work for many families.

I have a friend who has her son one week and then her ex husband takes him the next week. He lives two completely seperate lives, do you think that is fair? She's forever posting status's saying she misses him and can't wait for him to be back. I wouldn't want to live like that! I'm not saying that I deserve more in life than FOB.

It depends on each person's individual situation. It wouldn't work for everyone but that's not to say it wouldn't work for anyone. It depends on so many factors though, like how old the child is, who the primary parent was before the split, the employment situation, etc. but if all of them allow for a 50/50 split of childcare then why not take advantage of that?

Like someone said before, when a relationship ends we have to do things that we might not be happy with, and spending time apart from our children is one of those.

 

[Laura2919]

But it isn't about choosing when the dad sees his children but surely you can't think it is beneficial for a child to spend half a week at one home and half a week at another! What about friends, family, things that are happening. It's not something that would work for many families.

I have a friend who has her son one week and then her ex husband takes him the next week. He lives two completely seperate lives, do you think that is fair? She's forever posting status's saying she misses him and can't wait for him to be back. I wouldn't want to live like that! I'm not saying that I deserve more in life than FOB.

It depends on each person's individual situation. It wouldn't work for everyone but that's not to say it wouldn't work for anyone. It depends on so many factors though, like how old the child is, who the primary parent was before the split, the employment situation, etc. but if all of them allow for a 50/50 split of childcare then why not take advantage of that?

Like someone said before, when a relationship ends we have to do things that we might not be happy with, and spending time apart from our children is one of those.

It was me who said that and it is true but we spend time away from our children, or at least the ones who have FOB's in their lives. Like me. My children go to FOB's every other weekend Friday evening to Sunday night, they spend time with FOB's family and his current girlfriend I can't stand the thought that they are around someone else who will act like their mum but like I said you have to do things you don't like. I let them go and pray to God she loves them like she loves FOB because then I know at least they will be happy.

Parenting is usually left to the mother simply because we carried them. As much as you don't agree thats the biggest reason, our bonds are different to that of a father and child.

FOB used to have the girls one day and night in the week, I took that away because with them starting school and his work schedule it would be better if they spent it with me. He couldn't care less but thats just him. He is far too wrapped up in his lifestyle than he is about his kids.

Maybe my situation influences this decision but I still stick by my point that it has always been the mother who gets the children and that is how it should stay.

 

[Yorkshiredad]

It was me who said that and it is true but we spend time away from our children, or at least the ones who have FOB's in their lives. Like me. My children go to FOB's every other weekend Friday evening to Sunday night, they spend time with FOB's family and his current girlfriend I can't stand the thought that they are around someone else who will act like their mum but like I said you have to do things you don't like. I let them go and pray to God she loves them like she loves FOB because then I know at least they will be happy.

Parenting is usually left to the mother simply because we carried them. As much as you don't agree thats the biggest reason, our bonds are different to that of a father and child.

FOB used to have the girls one day and night in the week, I took that away because with them starting school and his work schedule it would be better if they spent it with me. He couldn't care less but thats just him. He is far too wrapped up in his lifestyle than he is about his kids.

Maybe my situation influences this decision but I still stick by my point that it has always been the mother who gets the children and that is how it should stay.

In your situation it probably is for the best, but I hope if your situation was different you would be less inclined to make such a sweeping, and small minded, generalization.

 

[Laura2919]

It was me who said that and it is true but we spend time away from our children, or at least the ones who have FOB's in their lives. Like me. My children go to FOB's every other weekend Friday evening to Sunday night, they spend time with FOB's family and his current girlfriend I can't stand the thought that they are around someone else who will act like their mum but like I said you have to do things you don't like. I let them go and pray to God she loves them like she loves FOB because then I know at least they will be happy.

Parenting is usually left to the mother simply because we carried them. As much as you don't agree thats the biggest reason, our bonds are different to that of a father and child.

FOB used to have the girls one day and night in the week, I took that away because with them starting school and his work schedule it would be better if they spent it with me. He couldn't care less but thats just him. He is far too wrapped up in his lifestyle than he is about his kids.

Maybe my situation influences this decision but I still stick by my point that it has always been the mother who gets the children and that is how it should stay.

In your situation it probably is for the best, but I hope if your situation was different you would be less inclined to make such a sweeping, and small minded, generalization.

Must be me and half this country then being that any court in the land would rule in favour of the mother too unless she was unfit. Just face it, children reside with their mother because thats life! Unfortunately as much as you don't like it its gonna take a lot more than your one man band to change it!

 

[Donna35]

It was me who said that and it is true but we spend time away from our children, or at least the ones who have FOB's in their lives. Like me. My children go to FOB's every other weekend Friday evening to Sunday night, they spend time with FOB's family and his current girlfriend I can't stand the thought that they are around someone else who will act like their mum but like I said you have to do things you don't like. I let them go and pray to God she loves them like she loves FOB because then I know at least they will be happy.

Parenting is usually left to the mother simply because we carried them. As much as you don't agree thats the biggest reason, our bonds are different to that of a father and child.

FOB used to have the girls one day and night in the week, I took that away because with them starting school and his work schedule it would be better if they spent it with me. He couldn't care less but thats just him. He is far too wrapped up in his lifestyle than he is about his kids.

Maybe my situation influences this decision but I still stick by my point that it has always been the mother who gets the children and that is how it should stay.

In your situation it probably is for the best, but I hope if your situation was different you would be less inclined to make such a sweeping, and small minded, generalization.

I can't see that she's generalizing here though - the way the law stands, and has done for many many years is that, except in extremely exceptional circumstances, custody is ALWAYS given to the mother. Laura is stating a fact, not generalizing.

I want to say though fair play to you for working and wanting to play a full part in your child's life - if only all men were the same but unfortunately they're not.

 

[teal]

As above really, courts would agree that the child stays with the mother. (apart from exceptional circumstances).

It's not a sweeping generalisation, as I said previously it's much more common for fathers to walk away than a mother. Pesonally I think some of that could be because of the bond we have with our children before they are even born.

I do think it's great you're wanting to be so involved in your childs life but unfortunately for a lot of lovely ladies on here our babies fathers just don't give a toss.

 

[Yorkshiredad]

Must be me and half this country then being that any court in the land would rule in favour of the mother too unless she was unfit. Just face it, children reside with their mother because thats life! Unfortunately as much as you don't like it its gonna take a lot more than your one man band to change it!

I can't see that she's generalizing here though - the way the law stands, and has done for many many years is that, except in extremely exceptional circumstances, custody is ALWAYS given to the mother. Laura is stating a fact, not generalizing.

I want to say though fair play to you for working and wanting to play a full part in your child's life - if only all men were the same but unfortunately they're not.

Any this is exactly what's wrong with this country.

I'm going to leave my argument here by saying that this wasn't aimed at any of you, I imagine you're all doing the best for your kids, but there's something wrong with the "system" if a woman has to be a violent crackhead for a father to be classed as a more appropriate parent.

 

[Donna35]

Must be me and half this country then being that any court in the land would rule in favour of the mother too unless she was unfit. Just face it, children reside with their mother because thats life! Unfortunately as much as you don't like it its gonna take a lot more than your one man band to change it!

I can't see that she's generalizing here though - the way the law stands, and has done for many many years is that, except in extremely exceptional circumstances, custody is ALWAYS given to the mother. Laura is stating a fact, not generalizing.

I want to say though fair play to you for working and wanting to play a full part in your child's life - if only all men were the same but unfortunately they're not.

Any this is exactly what's wrong with this country.

I'm going to leave my argument here by saying that this wasn't aimed at any of you, I imagine you're all doing the best for your kids, but there's something wrong with the "system" if a woman has to be a violent crackhead for a father to be classed as a more appropriate parent.

For the majority of children, the reason the mother has the children is quite simply that the father has not tried to get them or wanted them and in some cases doesn't give a tiny rats arse about them. Then you have the fathers who do try but the courts find it is better that the child be with the mother for whatever reason. But more and more fathers ARE being given custody of the kids whether joint or full. It entirely is based on the circumstances and not just 'the way the system works'. Yes it WAS how the system primarily worked as the mother has always been the primary caregiver and rightly so in that case.

And still now in most cases the child will remain with the mother - as it is usually found that it's in the CHILD's best interests.

 

[Laura2919]

Do you really want to know why the children reside with their mothers because most dads up and leave without even wondering what will happen, it is not as common for a mother to do that.

Because some men up and leave it makes it harder for all the good men like yourself to want to challenge that. Unfortunately that is the law, that is the way it works. Somethings we don't like as already said.

 

[Laura--x]

Just caught up with this! I have to say i agree with the mother/daughter bond..

I was with my babys dad for 4 years, split up when she was 6 months old because he just changed and got lazy, never bothered with the baby unless he had nothing else to do, ect ect. So since lo was 6 months i have been a single parent.

Shes now 3, and stays at her dads wednesday nights and saturday nights, 4pm-4pm. She LOVES going to her dads, usually asks to go when shes with me. I know she has loads of fun down there because he lives at home with all his family and younger children, so its one big playground there for her.

As soon as LO gets poorly,or tired, or falls over, ect ect, she wants me. Im the person she wants for comfort, fob says when shes there if she gets ill ect she asks for me. Im the person that can truely make her feel ok, give her cuddles when shes poorly, kisses her knee better when she falls over. Of course, her dad does all that too, but its me she always wants them off.

The relationship between mother/child and father/child is completely different, as the others have said. Growing up, whenever ive had problems/been ill/wanted a cuddle ect ect, ive just automatically gone to my mum. I was very close to my dad growing up too, and was pretty much a complete daddys girl, but my relationship with my mum was much more deep, whereas my dads was more playing/doing things together ect my mums was more intense.

Im chatting completely random rubbish now. Basically the bond IS different. In answer to the OP, the dad is just taking the pee imo. I wil never for the life of my understand why fathers think that not working is ok, IMO the main role for the father is to be supporting his family/child. And no, i get no money off fob either!

 

[MommaAlexis]

Personally I think the bond is stronger when they are newborns, etc. I can't say for definite when it would stop, it would depend on the mom/baby/dad in the situation. Because they were inside this person, hearing them breath, heart beating, talking, crying, laughing for nine months. They may recognize your voice at first, but they already KNOW mommy will protect them. and it's a terrible thing when their mother doesn't. After a while of having you take care of them after they're born they would trust you too! But de facto, they think mommy is the one that protects them and you're that voice they heard and the voice mommy (hopefully!) was happy when she talked to. This is my opinion, I think it's fairly logical and not the whole "I carried her, so she stays with me" I think, quite frankly until she's old enough and knows you enough to trust you 100%, the main guardian should be the mother even if both are fantastic parents and do the exact same things. If she isn't fit, and the dad is, so be it. That little bit of extra stress on the child is better in the long run. But in cases where you WILL eventually get equal rights, why cause your kid the extra stress? Just be patient, you'll know when she's ready to leave mommy for longer periods of time. I'm not talking about the parents bond with the child, but the child's bond with the parents. Two different things. I've seen dads who work waaaay harder for their babies but when they're crying the only one who can make them stop is mom. I've seen my good friend SUPER upset over this too, but in new borns, it's totally normal and logical. Mom's already proved she'll protect them, you just gotta wait until they know you will to. By feeding them, singing to them, snuggling, you'll get there. Whether it takes a month, a year or ten years.

 

[dustbunny]

I have to agree that the mother/baby bond is stronger than that of the father. It's nature, us ladies have gone through implantation, the pregnancy rollercoaster, the birth either vaginally or C-Section which is major abdominal surgery. We have had to watch what we eat and drink, watch our bodies pile on weight rapidly often leading to stretch marks and change in general. When the baby is born it requires skin to skin and its mothers milk. Also as a PP said it is stereotypically/traditionally that the mother quits her work and stays home to look after the children.

A PP said about splitting time 1 week at the mothers and 1 week at the dads, to be honest I find that a bit selfish if the parents live in different areas. As the PP said the child will end up never really settling in either area but as long as both parents get equal time it seems thats OK.

Also you are talking to women who for the majority have been let down by their FOB's and men in general. We have been left to sort out situations and deal with things on our own. There are so many threads, countless, on how FOB only stay involved to piss the mothers off and cause trouble.

And as for all Dads should have rights... from a personal point of view... even though I left FOB I did so in the hope he would grow up and sort his life out... but no. He has his mother fighting his battles for him. He hasn't sent anything since LO was born, not even a card or teddy for her. He hasn't bought anything nor sent any maintenance. This baby was planned so he has no excuse about getting used to the idea etc. He demanded I keep him up to date so he didnt have to bother getting involved, he demanded to be told when she was born and demanded ti be included in decisions... all of which he then turned his back on because I didn't tell him to phone me back or whatever... it is always my fault. He shows all the traits of a callow idiot and isn't justified in having equal rights when he has F'd off for months at a time.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh but I have had 3 hours sleep a night for3 weeks, am typing this one handed as I look after LO, have sore nipples from breastfeeding 24/7 and a splitting headache from worrying about the stupid threats/emotional blackmail FOBs mother has put on me.