Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[Noelle610]

seaweed, we're on two naps some days and I have a "no nap" rule before 9am (morning nap) and 1pm (afternoon nap) regardless of wake-up time to keep the routine since it works.

 

[Radkat]

LO's sleep has been all over the place lately. 2 weeks ago she was waking up 6-8x/night with 3 feedings. Then last week we had 3 nights where she had some difficulty going to sleep, but was only up once to eat. I was SO hopeful that this was a transition, but alas no. The last 3 nights her wakeups have gotten earlier and more frequent, back to 2 feedings and multiple wakeups. Her schedule is so all over the place it's hard to know if she's hungry or just fussy. Last night I tried to soothe her without feeding for over 45 minutes off and on, (she would fall asleep, then be up again in 5 minutes), then I finally fed her and she slept for another 2 hours. I've brought her into bed with us every morning for the last couple of weeks (she wakes between 5 & 6am) to get a bit more sleep. She's usually up for good around 7am. Naps are still not good. Rarely more than 30 minutes unless we're in the car or stroller. 3 or 4 per day.

She's 6.5 months and has been more fussy than usual lately. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.

 

[Twister]

Radcat, that sounds exactly like my LO a couple of weeks ago. Turns out she was ready for longer awake times and to drop from 3/4 naps to just 2 naps per day(I only realised this when a few people pointed it out to me after I posted in this thread). How long is your LO awake for between naps? My LO used to be awake for between 1.5-2hours, I'd put her down when she seemed sleepy but it was real hard work getting her to nap. I now try to keep her up for 2.5-3 hours, sometimes a bit longer if she doesn't seem fussy and she goes down a lot easier now and she even self settles sometimes. I've noticed an improvement in her night sleep too, she still wakes anywhere between 2-4 times but she's a lot easier to settle and I'm now getting some 4 hour chunks of sleep as opposed to just two hours.

I'm basically just rehashing the advice I was given here, but It can be quite a rough transition as LO gets used to being awake longer and bedtime may need to be shifted forward or a while to prevent over tiredness but I think in the long run you'll notice significant improvements to your LO's sleep. My LO can start getting quite grumpy after 2 hours but I know that if I took her up that soon it would take me ages to get her to sleep and then she'd only nap for half an hour as opposed to an hour/1.5 hours. It just take a bit of time for them to adjust to their new routine.

 

[polaris]

Clara's sleep is still awful. However she has come down with an absolutely awful cold today so at least I have a reason why she woke up every single hour last night. I have a feeling tonight will be the same so I am off to bed myself now.

ETA - seaweed, so glad to hear that your LO's sleep is so much better. DS was a 5.30 a.m. riser for months - I did the same as Noelle and kept him up until 9 a.m. or as near as possible before putting him down for his first nap. It didn't work to get him to wake up later in the mornings but at least the rest of the day's routine wasn't off course. He went on waking early until he finally dropped to one nap at about 15 months.

 

[Boo44]

Ok girls - when do babies tend to transition to one nap?

We are back to one issue - early morning wakings. I know 6.30 may not sound early to many, but it is early for Jack, he has recently been sleeping past half 7! My ideal for him is 7am ...

He wakes happy and chatting and singing out. I have tried leaving him and he remains happy playing with his dummies in his cot for up to an hour!!

His first nap is around 10. He usually has an hour but will sleep much longer if I let him. I always will wake him after 90 mins as it just seems too long to me!

He then has another nap around 2.30pm or 3. This is a funny one. Again I always wake him and never let him go for more than an hour. I like him to be up by 4pm latest

Bed is 7.30. He's usually absolutely fine and not too tired at bed time.

I get that I need to probably keep him awake longer in the morning an then hopefully he'll have a good sleep for longer (ie without me waking him!) and then will last for bed time... Thing is he's always very ready for his nap by 10.30am latest as he's awake early! So that's a bit early for a one nap day...?

Any thoughts much appreciated

 

[Radkat]

Thanks, Twister. I'm hoping she'll transition into some longer naps. She did have 2 naps last week that were longer, 1 hour, that were not facilitated by the car/stroller, so I'm hoping that will continue. My OH stays with her during the day and I know he's trying to stretch her in between times a bit. Maybe this will work? And I have been moving up her bedtime a bit, a few minutes each day. But it's so hard with how light it is late now. We really need black out curtains. She's been looking at the window like, why are you putting me to bed now?

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Seaweed - so happy things are looking better sleep wise for your LO. We also did have early rising with Sofia and we did as Noelle said (isn't she the best?) and it worked out for us.

Boo - wish I could help! Sofia sleeps till 7:00 am 50% of the time and then 6-6:30 am other 50%. It doesn't seem to matter what i she just randomly pick a wake up time :/

Polaris - sorry to hear Clara has a cold. Hope she feels better soon and you get some much needed rest.

I haven't been around as Sofia has actually been sleeping through 7 pm to 7 am again for the past week. Now she does stir around 9 pm but it takes a few mins for her to go back down and I'm still awake then so it doesn't bother me...

I'm back to not sleeping myself though booooooo!!! Noelle, I sent you a pm on this...

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks ladies. I will try to keep the 9 AM rule then. Good to know that that's what you all do. Polaris, it sounds like our babies are similar in some ways, so it's always good to hear about your experiences! Munchkin used to wake up at 5:30 or earlier almost every day, but he seemed happy and well rested (and was on 5 naps a day!) so I didn't mind it as much (ok, I did mind a little for my sake and DH's ). It's unusual for him to wake up tired as he's been doing this week. Usually when he's up, he's up.

Polaris, I'm sorry to hear you are dealing with illness right now, that is so exhausting...hope you get some rest tonight and Clara is better soon hang in there!

Radkat, I agree with what Twister said. I hope the transition goes well for you and results in longer naps soon. We're about a month into it and LO still isn't consistently napping for long enough, but at least he went from 30 minutes on the dot to usually more like 45, and like yours he occasionally has longer ones. I've learned that, even so, it's better to extend his wake times -- otherwise I spend literally the entire day trying to get him to nap. We're both much happier with a routine. I'm just waiting and hoping for those longer naps one of these days.

Twister, I'm glad you are finding the longer WTs better we are, too!

Boo, I don't have experience with this, but I guess maybe you just have to try it? I found with moving to 2 naps it helped to figure out what kind of routine we would need in order for it to work, and then try that even though it seemed crazy...so I'm guessing if one nap is going to happen, you would want to keep Jack up until at least 11 (and maybe gradually move that later?) and let him sleep for up to like 2.5 hours, something like that...

Shadowy, it's so great to hear Sofia is sleeping through again! I thought of you this weekend because I could have SWORN Munchkin was teething, but I know better than to jump to that conclusion I really hope your sleep improves.

 

[seaweed eater]

Gahhhhh! Back to crying and fighting. And clutching his mouth. I know we've had a million false alarms but I really really think he is actually teething this time! That or I'm crazy!!

He seemed really uncomfortable so I gave him some Tylenol and nursed him a second time. He didn't seem hungry and didn't fall asleep, so we're back to crying, but it made me wonder -- those of you who have sleep trained, when do you relax your rules about sleep if LO seems unwell? Do you just go with your gut feeling or do you have some second-order rules about that?

 

[bananaz]

Gahhhhh! Back to crying and fighting. And clutching his mouth. I know we've had a million false alarms but I really really think he is actually teething this time! That or I'm crazy!!

He seemed really uncomfortable so I gave him some Tylenol and nursed him a second time. He didn't seem hungry and didn't fall asleep, so we're back to crying, but it made me wonder -- those of you who have sleep trained, when do you relax your rules about sleep if LO seems unwell? Do you just go with your gut feeling or do you have some second-order rules about that?

My LO was really ill for about a week during some of my gentle sleep training. I went with my gut and was a lot more responsive to her during that time (e.g. I went in immediately instead of waiting for a few minutes), however she was still nursing well during the day so I continued not offering the boob at night because I knew that she wasn't dehydrated or hungry and I didn't want to backslide into having a bunch of night feeds.

When she's teething badly I give her ibuprofen before bed and then have a dose ready in her room for the nighttime just in case, but pretty much everything else stays the same. I think that if I changed my nighttime response every time she teethed that would be really confusing for her.

Anyway, big hugs to you, I hope you both get some sleep soon

 

[stephie_corin]

I've got a terrible terrible sleeper who also fights naps and is awake for the day at 530. Seems like a common theme! We do three naps at 8, 1130,3 for about half hour/45 mins. We have awake times of 2.5-3 hours so he is awake for 10+ hours a day.

I think we need to drop to 2 naps.

I'm just wondering what awake times people have been doing for a six month old? If we stick to the 2.5-3 hours but drop to 2 naps he will only have been awake for 8.5 hours and I don't think it is enough for him to fall asleep at the end of the day.

 

[seaweed eater]

Welcome Stephie :wave: some people do 2-3-4, but that only adds up to 9, which isn't enough for my LO either. We tend to aim for 3-3.5 and it all works itself out somehow, either one of them ends up being longer naturally or we move bedtime a bit earlier for the day. (You will probably have to move bedtime earlier as you transition, anyway.)

 

[Twister]

My LO usually goes 2.5-3 hours before she gets impossibly grumpy and needs to nap, occasionally (usually after her second nap) she will go 3.5 or even 4 hours. It's all a bit trial and error to begin with, just find what works for your LO

So Jessica's sleep is improving. We're settling in nicely into a two nap routine, it's great knowing roughly when she will need a nap and I feel like I have a lot more time to do things with LO and around the house as I'm not constantly trying to get her to nap. When we put her down for bed, she goes down fine. I usually try and bf her before she goes down to top her up but she doesn't always want it depending on when her last feed was and how much she ate at dinner. She usually wakes an hour after being put down, I think this is from hunger especially if she wasn't hungry at bed time and she usually has a good feel, then she wakes again two hours later. The past couple of nights after these two wakings she has done a 4 hour stint, fed and then back to bed for another 4 hour stint. Does this sound ok? I'm not sure about the two initial wakings, it's probably normal though, right?

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks girls I desperately need to sort my feeding to sleep issues too... It's the only time he will feed, otherwise he is too distracted. My only hesitation at dropping to 2 naps is he will only have three day feeds! I'm going to work tomorrow on breaking the habit and will report back on our new 2 nap schedule. I'm praying it helps his night sleep too. I'm not sure how much longer I can walk around like a mean zombie! X

 

[Noelle610]

Hi Stephanie! Try the 2/3/4... My LO transitioned to 2 naps around that age!

Twister, what time is her last real breastfeed, dinner and then bedtime?

 

[Twister]

It varies really as she's fed very much on demand still. I usually try and time it an hour before dinner which is usually around 5/6, but sometimes she bf's right before dinner (we blw so food isn't really about filling her up yet) bedtime is anytime between 6-7 depending on when her last nap was. Sometimes her last feed will fall right before bed, so she has a good proper feed then. Sorry if that's confusing!

 

[seaweed eater]

Stephie, have you ever tried feeding him right after he wakes up? At the height of his distractibility mine would only feed when falling asleep and right after waking up. Or do you think he wouldn't be hungry, if he's used to going a very long time between feeds at the moment?

 

[NotNic]

Boo - I started eeking Finlay's nap out by 15mins every couple of days to try to get the nap to be after lunch instead. When i got it up to around 11.30 I found offering him a short nap (in the car etc.) worked best and we could get him to sleep after 1pm for a proper nap (at least 90mins) His need for 1 nap is a bit hit and miss though. Sometimes he really does need 2 otherwise he is falling asleep at dinner. He definitely seems sleepier the past week.

 

[Noelle610]

Twister, I think in your shoes I'd continue feeding on demand. You could re-evaluate when she's 9 months or so and has more solids. They're purely supplementary at this time.

Boo, sorry I missed your post! How is his sleep at night otherwise? I'm always hesitant to recommend one nap before a year, but of course there are babies that transition early and do really well with it.

 

[mrsbeano]

Ok girls - when do babies tend to transition to one nap?

We are back to one issue - early morning wakings. I know 6.30 may not sound early to many, but it is early for Jack, he has recently been sleeping past half 7! My ideal for him is 7am ...

He wakes happy and chatting and singing out. I have tried leaving him and he remains happy playing with his dummies in his cot for up to an hour!!

His first nap is around 10. He usually has an hour but will sleep much longer if I let him. I always will wake him after 90 mins as it just seems too long to me!

He then has another nap around 2.30pm or 3. This is a funny one. Again I always wake him and never let him go for more than an hour. I like him to be up by 4pm latest

Bed is 7.30. He's usually absolutely fine and not too tired at bed time.

I get that I need to probably keep him awake longer in the morning an then hopefully he'll have a good sleep for longer (ie without me waking him!) and then will last for bed time... Thing is he's always very ready for his nap by 10.30am latest as he's awake early! So that's a bit early for a one nap day...?

Any thoughts much appreciated

You could try only offering a cat nap of 15 minutes in the morning and then a long lunchtime nap. I believe that the one who can't be named suggests 15 minutes at 9am and then sleeping from 12-2 and in bed at 7-7. A mum friend follows this religiously and it works for her LO who is the same age as Quinn (well 2 days older).

I can't imagine Quinn coping on that amount of sleep! He does 3 hrs awake, 90 mins sleep in the morning and afternoon.

I've so got a bit lost on this thread haha. I don't recognise everyone anymore... that's what happens when you're back at work I suppose!