Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[stephie_corin]

Wow it looks like bad nights all round!

SE I'd stick with it another few days at least and if its still not working maybe give something else a try. One thing I've read is to nurse them to sleep, or close to bed time so they are sleepy, then reawaken gently and place the baby in their cot? Not sure if you have tried it. Apparently you can gradually extend the period between feeding and placing in their cot. I'm not one to advise though as I feed to sleep every night then hold him until the limp limbs take over!!!

Gaia, wonder week 26 sux!!! We are also struggling with naps, lots of tears!

Polaris, I'm so sorry your night was so bad. I get disheartened too when I can't get Culver to sleep, even after trying every trick in our book. Sleep is such a fundamental part of life and it feels horrid when you can't get your LO to sleep even though they are exhausted.

Not much advice from me, just lots of sympathy!!! X

 

[Twister]

to everyone who needs them.

Last night was 'ok' after the 11pm wake up she woke at just before 2am, then not until 5am. She was a bit difficult to settle during all these wake ups but I got two blocks of almost 3 hours sleep, so better than usual. Except she would. Not. Settle at the 5 am wake up. I really think its because its so light at that time now so today I'm going to Asda and I'm buying some dark towels to put on her window to see if that helps. I brought her into my bed but she still wouldn't settle, I started getting frustrated so i put her back in her cot, but she just cried so I gave up. She's currently having her first nap, tried to keep her awake as long as possible so I really hope it's a long one so we can try and set up for a better night tonight.

 

[Twister]

Gahh, so much for a long nap. She only slept 40 minutes. This is really getting me down now

 

[stephie_corin]

Sorry Twister!!! Maybe her next nap will be good! We had a catnap first nap, I pushed him 3 hours and hello... Looks like a long nap! He's been down for almost an hour.

If he sleeps well at this nap what's the maximum I could push him until tonight? Is 5 hours way too long or should I give him a catnap in the afternoon? I don't know if over tiredness will make his night sleep even worse or if he will zonk out from tiredness.

 

[stephie_corin]

Oh I spoke too soon. AWAKE!

 

[Twister]

Jessica was up for 3.5 hours before I put her down, maybe I kept her up too long, it's difficult to find a good balance.

I personally would try and sneak in a cat nap a couple of hours after he's woken up, that way he will still have a few hours to get tired before bedtime but won't be over tired.

Eta: an hour is good! Imo a decent nap is anything from an hour onwards

 

[Noelle610]

Seaweed, can you tell me a bit more about the sleep training you're doing? What's the method? I want to encourage you to stick with it, but I'm wondering if you can tweak the approach to minimize crying.

Gaia, WW 26, ugh! Don't loose heart, that was a bad one for us and none of them have been too horrible since. More whining that sleep deprivation!

Polaris, I felt that way when I started this thread. I know it's hard to have perspective when you feel this way.

Stephanie, I'm wondering if you might try the rule of "no naps" before 9am and 1pm to see if you could move to two. It's hard when they're waking that early.

 

[Noelle610]

Jessica was up for 3.5 hours before I put her down, maybe I kept her up too long, it's difficult to find a good balance.

In the transition to one nap I'm really struggling to find the magic moment too, so I'm right there with you!

I'm kind of conflicted about the one nap thing right now. My daycare provider really wants to move her quickly, but it doesn't seem to be working. She gives the girls "quiet time" for 30 minutes in the morning. The other two babies just chill, but Charlie sleeps and then she wakes her up. Her second nap is now shorter than when she was doing two naps and she's super overtired at bedtime. It sucks. I want to ask her to go back to two naps, but I don't want to be demanding since the other girls seem ready and she really likes them on the same schedule. On Tuesday I was home with my girl and she took a 2 hour morning nap and 90 minute afternoon nap... That doesn't sound like a kid who is ready for one nap, IMO. Ugh.

 

[mellyboo]

I did 2 naps yesterday, I've really been trying but kind of struggling randomly with it..

she wanted to go to bed at 530 :S I ended up taking her to my parents house just up the road and she played there for a bit it took her mind off things i came back home for 7pm i put her down to bed she fell asleep as soon as she was layed down in the crib... woke up at 150am and 430am woke up for the day at 730 so all in all she had a good day..

just struggling with keeping her awake for the 2 naps.

 

[Noelle610]

I did 2 naps yesterday, I've really been trying but kind of struggling randomly with it..

she wanted to go to bed at 530 :S I ended up taking her to my parents house just up the road and she played there for a bit it took her mind off things i came back home for 7pm i put her down to bed she fell asleep as soon as she was layed down in the crib... woke up at 150am and 430am woke up for the day at 730 so all in all she had a good day..

just struggling with keeping her awake for the 2 naps.

It's a hard transition, as is the 2-1. You're kind of damned if you do, because you have to guide them through the fussiness, and damned if you don't, because if they get too much daytime sleep it will start to interfere with night sleep when theyr'e ready to transition.

 

[mellyboo]

I did 2 naps yesterday, I've really been trying but kind of struggling randomly with it..

she wanted to go to bed at 530 :S I ended up taking her to my parents house just up the road and she played there for a bit it took her mind off things i came back home for 7pm i put her down to bed she fell asleep as soon as she was layed down in the crib... woke up at 150am and 430am woke up for the day at 730 so all in all she had a good day..

just struggling with keeping her awake for the 2 naps.

It's a hard transition, as is the 2-1. You're kind of damned if you do, because you have to guide them through the fussiness, and damned if you don't, because if they get too much daytime sleep it will start to interfere with night sleep when theyr'e ready to transition.

I totally agree and I think its for the best she has 2 naps because she does sleep better we just need to keep her occupied to cut the fussing down last night she was just cry cry cry because she was tired.. but then she was laughing one minute.. i'm not sure she knew how to deal with her self we need to find idea's on how to keep her occupied to cut the fussing part until she is used to it LOL!..

Parenthood.... the fun! ahha

 

[Noelle610]

I did 2 naps yesterday, I've really been trying but kind of struggling randomly with it..

she wanted to go to bed at 530 :S I ended up taking her to my parents house just up the road and she played there for a bit it took her mind off things i came back home for 7pm i put her down to bed she fell asleep as soon as she was layed down in the crib... woke up at 150am and 430am woke up for the day at 730 so all in all she had a good day..

just struggling with keeping her awake for the 2 naps.

It's a hard transition, as is the 2-1. You're kind of damned if you do, because you have to guide them through the fussiness, and damned if you don't, because if they get too much daytime sleep it will start to interfere with night sleep when theyr'e ready to transition.

I totally agree and I think its for the best she has 2 naps because she does sleep better we just need to keep her occupied to cut the fussing down last night she was just cry cry cry because she was tired.. but then she was laughing one minute.. i'm not sure she knew how to deal with her self we need to find idea's on how to keep her occupied to cut the fussing part until she is used to it LOL!..

Parenthood.... the fun! ahha

So fun, right?

Going outside really helps.

 

[seaweed eater]

Yikes, I'm so sorry about all the bad nights

Polaris, I feel just the same way about crying. It's ok in the short term if it really improves things in the long term, but not if it's going to keep happening on a regular basis. My heart goes out to you, hon. Does it help at all to make that separation in your mind between now when she has a cold and later once she's better? Definitely just do what you need to do to survive for now. You can focus on getting back into a routine once she is well.

Noelle, I think you are right that it sounds like she's not ready for one nap. I understand your DCP's concerns but she is working for you, so if what she's doing isn't working for C, then I think you are entitled to ask for a change. What do you think about the "quiet time" thing? I can understand how that could be seen as a way of transitioning to one nap, but it seems like it could also be neither here nor there, since C doesn't get a proper first nap but she also doesn't get the extended WT. I would find that a little annoying TBH.

Melly, I hear you, it sucks to have to keep them awake like that for so long! It sounds like it worked well for you in the end though. I hope she is used to it soon.

Stephie, I agree, almost an hour is good how was the rest of your day? My LO goes 5 hours sometimes at daycare but I wouldn't extend it that long myself.

Twister, how did bedtime end up going? 3.5 seems to be about right for us, often.

Thanks everyone for your support, last night ended up being fine once he was finally asleep but that one waking was so crazy! And to top it off he fell asleep with both his feet sticking out of the crib fortunately I was able to move him without waking him up. Do you guys use bumpers in your LOs' cribs?

He woke up twice and then up for the day at 6:45. After going to sleep around 10.

Thanks, Noelle, I'd be interested to know what you think of what we have been doing. First I feed him (and I really encourage him to eat, so that I know he's not hungry) and put him down awake. If he self-settles, great. If not, the kitchen is closed. The first time we wait about a minute just to make sure he's not calming down. Then one of us goes in (usually DH) and picks him up, walks around or rocks a bit to try to calm him down, then puts him back down awake. This does end up looking different for DH vs. me because DH is actually able to calm him this way whereas I am not. So usually, when I go in, I just stay for a minute or so, and LO cries the whole time, whereas DH sometimes stays for up to five minutes if LO is actually calming down. Do you think that could be too confusing? I mean, both of us are just trying to do what will be the most effective at calming LO -- I would stay in for longer, too, if he would settle for me without nursing. Anyway, so one way or the other we put him down, he starts crying immediately, and we leave him for 3 minutes to see if he'll fall asleep. Repeat.

We do this for all NWs too unless it's been less than two hours since he's eaten, in which case we don't feed first and go straight to the other stuff. There may have been once or twice when he woke up really early and I nursed him again to try to get him to sleep some more. But otherwise the rule is that he gets to nurse once so he's not hungry, then we comfort in other ways.

I know there are some kids who actually cry less with straight CIO because they find the checks/comforting stimulating. I'm just not willing to try CIO though.

He's been having more separation anxiety during the day so I don't know whether that factors in or how we would work around it.

Stephie, thanks for the suggestion about nursing earlier and earlier before putting down. For a couple months I was letting him nurse to sleep and then waking him when I put him into the crib, and we got stuck there -- he wouldn't let me change it without protesting. So I figured if we were going to have crying anyway, we might as well try something that would give us a little more flexibility.

 

[Noelle610]

I think you're doing great seaweed! I think I would keep sending daddy in. Sounds like your presence is stimulating, but dad's isn't. I also think I'd encourage longer times between feeds at 7 months old. I'd say two night feeds max, but of course that's up to you.

I can't do CIO either. I'm not against it and have even encouraged other moms to do it, but I'm right there with you.

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks I feel the same way about CIO. I think it's fine for anyone who is comfortable with it. But it's not for me, at least not right now.

I agree that it's much more effective for DH to help him. DH gives up more easily than I do though, so that's why it ends up being me sometimes.

Two feeds is definitely our target. That's sustainable for me, and it's how many he has on a good night when all is well. I just want him to be doing a little better with the other comforting techniques before I start using stricter cutoffs.

 

[Twister]

So just done bedtime. Decided to switch it up a bit, instead of feeding her in her room I fed her downstairs in the living room, she fell asleep but woke as I moved to take her upstairs which was exactly what I wanted. She said goodnight to daddy, I took her upstairs and put her in her sleeping bag and gave her some teething powder and gel. Turned her over, dummy, stroked her head. Took about 10 minutes and she fell asleep with minimal fuss. We'll see how long she stays asleep for.

I'm wondering if there's a link between waking up and being fed to sleep, as when I feed to sleep for naps I've noticed she doesn't tend to sleep as long as opposed to when I manage to settle her in her cot. Earlier I settled her in her cot for nap 2 and she slept for almost an hour (woke screaming, I think her teeth have been bothering her today). So I'm going to try and stop feeding to sleep most of the time (unless its in the middle of the night or she's inconsolable for some reason) and see if I notice any changes.

 

[mellyboo]

I did 2 naps yesterday, I've really been trying but kind of struggling randomly with it..

she wanted to go to bed at 530 :S I ended up taking her to my parents house just up the road and she played there for a bit it took her mind off things i came back home for 7pm i put her down to bed she fell asleep as soon as she was layed down in the crib... woke up at 150am and 430am woke up for the day at 730 so all in all she had a good day..

just struggling with keeping her awake for the 2 naps.

It's a hard transition, as is the 2-1. You're kind of damned if you do, because you have to guide them through the fussiness, and damned if you don't, because if they get too much daytime sleep it will start to interfere with night sleep when theyr'e ready to transition.

I totally agree and I think its for the best she has 2 naps because she does sleep better we just need to keep her occupied to cut the fussing down last night she was just cry cry cry because she was tired.. but then she was laughing one minute.. i'm not sure she knew how to deal with her self we need to find idea's on how to keep her occupied to cut the fussing part until she is used to it LOL!..

Parenthood.... the fun! ahha

So fun, right?

Going outside really helps.

I agree its getting warm outside right now, we took a HUGE walk yesterday I usually just walk up to my parents half the time good exercise hehe!

 

[seaweed eater]

Twister I definitely started noticing that Munchkin would sleep for longer if not fed to sleep. I hope it's a helpful and easy change for you!

 

[Noelle610]

So just don't bedtime. Decided to switch it up a bit, instead of feeding her in her room I fed her downstairs in the living room, she fell asleep but woke as I moved to take her upstairs which was exactly what I wanted. She said goodnight to daddy, I took her upstairs and put her in her sleeping bag and gave her some teething powder and gel. Turned her over, dummy, stroked her head. Took about 10 minutes and she fell asleep with minimal fuss. We'll see how long she stays asleep for.

I'm wondering if there's a link between waking up and being fed to sleep, as when I feed to sleep for naps I've noticed she doesn't tend to sleep as long as opposed to when I manage to settle her in her cot. Earlier I settled her in her cot for nap 2 and she slept for almost an hour (woke screaming, I think her teeth have been bothering her today). So I'm going to try and stop feeding to sleep most of the time (unless its in the middle of the night or she's inconsolable for some reason) and see if I notice any changes.

I think there is a connection. The example Ferber uses is this - If you fall asleep downstairs and your partner carries you upstairs and you awake in your bed, it's a bit disorienting. It's an object permanence thing.

 

[polaris]

I don't understand how she can sleep so well during the day and so badly at night! She very rarely wakes early from a nap now and they are usually a good two hours, whereas at bedtime she's awake after 45 minutes without fail and then often every hour after that. Why???

Seaweed, yes I definitely need to separate out her totally rubbish sleep at the moment from her normal just fairly rubbish sleep, given that she does have a bad cold and is really quite miserable with it. It's just hard because I'm not feeling 100% myself and now Thomas and OH have come down with it too. I'm also annoyed because OH will get to stay in bed and recover whereas I just had to keep going throughout despite feeling awful and being up all night with Clara. It just feels like so long since I had a break. Like even a morning or afternoon to myself with neither of the kids.

I think the sleep training you are doing sounds great. I wish I could get OH more involved with the whole process, he tends to just leave everything to me. Also, re bumpers, we have the mesh airflow bumpers. They work pretty well for preventing legs and arms getting trapped but they don't stop her bumping her head off the cot bars (might soften the blow a little bit I guess).

Noelle, I don't think it sounds like she is really ready for one nap. I also think she's very young to be forcing a transition if she's not ready. I'm sure it would be more convenient for the childminder to have them all on the same schedule but I think she needs to respect Charlotte's needs too. Babies need age appropriate naps to regulate stress hormones and arousal levels throughout the day and a well-rested baby will have much better learning ability, attention span, and emotional regulation. Hey, I don't need to tell you this. But I would be talking to the childminder again about it in your situation.

Twister, once Clara's cold is better I am going to really work on breaking the association between feeding and sleep. I've done this before but it keeps creeping back in. Clara doesn't nurse to sleep but she definitely depends on nursing to relax her and get her ready to settle to sleep. Having said that, she doesn't tend to sleep any longer even when I resettle her in other ways when she wakes during the night. I just have a baby who nothing really works for though!