Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[Noelle610]

Radkat, signs are usually early morning wakings, nap refusals and the remaining naps being on the longer side

 

[Noelle610]

Hi easy, what are the napping conditions like in daycare? Is it dark, quiet, etc? How do they soothe him to sleep? How often do they put him down?

Well for the longest time they could only get him to sleep in a swing and swaddled. I had to put an end to that though because I felt it was hurting the whole crib cause at home. They started putting him in a crib with him swaddled and now he is too big a strong and can bust out of them. He does not take a paci either. They say that the infants are on there own schedules and eat when they are hungry and sleep when they are tired. Im sure thats the problem right there.Although he has a bottle every 2-3 hours and has a little solids in the morning and afternoon. The sleep part though they say they just watch his signs. He used to be pretty consistant 11ish, 2-3ish and sometimes a late afternoon cat nap before I picked him up.

The room is usually quiet (minus some occasional baby crying) with lullaby music playing and they have parts of the day where they encourage naps by turning the lights on low.

I trust them and I the only thing I can do to keep my sanity is hope they are telling me the truth about what they do. Although they could very well be the problem by giving up to soon on helping him soothe

It sounds like they're doing their best. Daycare naps are hard for the best of sleepers.

Would they be open to putting him down sooner? Sometimes once they show tired signs it's too late.

 

[aliss]

Thanks girls for your support.

Our last nap (3 today, not 2, due to such a bad night) has gone amazingly well. I put him down at 130 after a nursing with paci (right now, I just don't want him to fight & scream) and he woke up crying, but resettled (paci was still in his mouth though). So, he's made into a 2nd sleep cycle and that's the most I was hoping for today.

I'm not sure how much work I'm going to do tonight, I got a call and his 6 month vaccine is in the morning so that may interrupt hings.

 

[Noelle610]

It's fine to start with bedtime aliss. Maybe you can move on to night wakings later!

Good luck with the shots. We have our one year shots on Friday. I am not looking foward to it

 

[diggory77]

So 6.15 wake up time today and 4 naps in total every 2 hours or so lasting 30ish minutes. Tried to put her to bed at 6.30 so it wasn't too long after her last nap (2hours) and she fell asleep feeding immediately. Tried to put her in her cot and she immediately wakes up wailing. I think I am going to have to do something about her settling herself. Her naps are so good in the day as long as she is my arms or moving along in her pram. There seems to be less and less that I'm able to do without picking her up now. She holds on to my hands and puts them over her face so I'm touching her. But she still can't drop off.

A lovely lady suggested a 7.30 bedtime would probably be ok, but I think she'd be shattered as she was already tired by 6.30. Any suggestions? I just wish she'd sleep like she used to before this sleep regression came and pooped all over usx

 

[Noelle610]

Diggory, I'd stick with the earlier bedtime if she's falling asleep easily.

I would try putting her down awake and rubbing/patting her as she falls asleep.

 

[polaris]

Stephie, I so totally know that feeling. It's like how can the nights be so bad when everything seems great during the day? It's so exhausting though when you are on your own all day with them and then waking up all night.

 

[NotNic]

Hope today went well Boo.

 

[aliss]

I will update tomorrow but today is day 1. I have also put bumpers on the crib to prevent him from seeing me from the crib. No swaddle. I'm terrified

 

[Noelle610]

You Can Do It!!!

 

[aliss]

Thanks! I won't say a darn thing yet as I know the BnB curse.

 

[seaweed eater]

Good luck Aliss what's the BnB curse??

Will respond to everyone else later. all around!

 

[gaiagirl]

SE I don't know but I imagine its the curse of posting about your success, lol. I don't even dare text my girlfriends about a good night OR say out loud to DH "Wow, maybe he will sleep through this transition into the next cycle" anymore. Hahaaaaa.

 

[seaweed eater]

Oh, that's not a BnB curse, that's an all the time curse. I used to never want to turn the monitor back on in the middle of the night because the moment I did, LO would wake up. I had to make a rule for myself that I had to turn it on the instant I got back in bed

Well if we're in curse territory, then that seems good, and I'm glad to hear it!

 

[seaweed eater]

All right, LO is in bed, time to catch up...

Stephie, your daytime routine sounds perfect. I think it's a fine idea to give the new nap schedule a week before you work on self-settling, for your own sanity as well as his. I'm hoping Munchkin's darn tooth will be out by then and then maybe we can work on it together. I'm really sorry you've been struggling so much at bedtime. We're having some of the same over here and it's really no fun. My heart goes out to you. I hope it gets better soon.

Polaris, how was today? Is Clara doing any better?

Boo, I'm sorry I don't have anything to suggest we've always had short naps and now we're struggling with bedtime here too. Maybe it was just a couple random bad days? I hope today was better.

Notnic, I'm sorry you had a bad day and night hope F feels better really soon and that today/tonight are better. Good to enjoy the cuddles at the very least.

Aimee, I'm so happy to read about your progress long may it continue!

All methods work, it's just the parents ability to be consistent that varies.

Noelle, I used to believe this too, but I consider our method to have failed for my LO. And I know for sure that we were really consistent about it. Would you say we just didn't give it long enough? Or, I guess, what exactly do you mean by "work"? Because it did improve his sleep, but it seemed like he never adjusted to it in terms of his stress level. I just don't understand why he didn't, to be honest. It still kind of haunts me as I think about what to try next. Anyway, sorry to derail this discussion from Aliss' situation, where it started, but it's just something I've been thinking about myself. Would love to hear your thoughts or anyone else's on this thread.

Gaiagirl, you sound at peace with things. Is that accurate? I hope so!

Easy, I agree with Noelle, daycare naps are just tough. My LO usually adds on a good hour or two to his normal wake time as a result of being there. He's there for a little over 4 hours and sometimes if his morning nap ends even an hour before he goes there, he will refuse to nap at all.

Maybe a more by-the-clock daytime routine would help your LO. It sounds like you are trying to plan every day according to his needs, which is great of course but can be confusing to some babies. You know your own baby best, of course. My daycare does naps on demand for infants too, but I think they would take a more scheduled approach if I wanted them to. If his usual bedtime is around 8 and you get to daycare around 9, then maybe he'll start his naps at 10-10:30 and 2:30-3, something like that. What do you think, is there a chance that would help?

Radkat, I think Noelle covered the signs of being ready to drop a nap...regarding whether to try changing things now, honestly I think I would do it if there's a chance you'll be able to stick to it when you're away, IF you think she is ready. If it works well for her then you will have a good structure to work from while you are on vacation, vs. a not so great structure right now. But if what you're doing now seems fine and you just want to drop to 2 naps because you wonder what would happen and she's around the right age, then maybe not. I don't know, what do others think? Does that help at all?

Diggory, I agree with the advice you've been given. 6:30 bedtime, and try patting her in her bed if that works. You have some time though IMO if you can't get her to self-settle right this minute. Obviously it's a good thing to work toward, but you won't be up against the object permanence issue for another month or two at least, so it's not as urgent. Definitely keep up the new nap routine, hopefully that will help a little once it becomes more consistent.

Whew! I hope I got everyone?

I don't want to run afoul of the curse, but bedtime tonight was somewhat better. The entire routine including the addition of 6 bedtime stories was around 45 minutes. And it took a few tries to get him down, but once we started we moved strictly toward going to bed and didn't end up having to interrupt things to play some more. Will obviously do the exact same things tomorrow. Hoping it's not a fluke.

 

[stephie_corin]

Notnic sorry to hear your boy is sick. And teething! I hope you get some sleep soon.

Aliss and Aimee please keep us updated on your progress! We have hourly night wakings and nursing too and I'm desperate to stop but rocking him takes a lot longer that nursing and I think has just created another sleep association. Now I have to rock and nurse sometimes to get him to sleep!

Radcat, my main reason for transitioning to two naps is because three were giving C too much awake time. He would regularly be awake 10.5-11 hours and that combined with bad night sleep made him so overtired. He has big circles under his eyes! I'm hoping two naps will reduce his total awake time.

SE, great news!! I love you are reading six stories now, that is hilarious. We do three and by the third one (Goldilocks) I'm frantically turning pages: there's a bear, and a girl, oooo porridge... As C is rapidly losing interest! What method are you using? Sorry, I joined this thread after you'd started sleep training.

Polaris, how is Clara now? I how she's feeling better. I was thinking of you last night.

I so knew there was a BnB curse!!! Literally whatever I write here in terms of progress the opposite happens the next day. So I am putting it out there. Tonight C will sleep terribly and keep me up all night.

We are persevering with our two naps but I'm adding a bit of extra time to his awake times in the hope of avoiding last nights refusal to sleep until 9pm!

Have a good day everyone.

 

[gaiagirl]

Thanks SE, I guess I am!?! As much as you can be with a high needs sleep baby! I just don't think there's anything I can do...I'm not willing to have him cry, and when I do try to leave him to self settle he just lies there leg slamming or flailing and chatting for seriously up to 30-45min before finally getting upset. Shhhh/patting does NOT work for him...

I've tried playing around with his nap schedule and bedtime, tried being consistent. Seriously everything but CIO/CC.

Sooooo yah, now I just try and roll with it and thank my lucky stars that I don't have to work until November...

We have awful nights sometimes and good ones. This evening was particularly awful as he refused to be transferred to the crib and fought sleep for HOURS. I think the top teeth are bugging him, but honestly, who knows!?!?

 

[polaris]

Thank you everyone for asking after Clara. She is so much better, thank goodness. Yesterday was still not great and she was still quite itchy and finding it hard to get settled, but she slept normally yesterday night, only two wakings which is really good for her and she just seems so much better in herself. No new spots today and I think most of them have crusted over now. Yay! So glad we are finally getting through this nightmare!

Aliss - hope last night went well. LOL at the B&B curse!

Stephie - do you know after everything that I have read about baby sleep over the years I actually never realised that the reason for dropping a nap was to decrease total awake times as the length that baby can stay awake for increases. It is so obvious when you say it like that but I just never thought about it that way! So thank you! You have given me a new way of thinking about nap transitions. That was certainly the main reason why I worked to drop DS's final nap, he wasn't settling to sleep until maybe 10.30 at night and was only getting about 9.5 hours of nighttime sleep and 1 to 1.5 hours daytime sleep so total sleep of 10.5 to 11 hours (which is not enough total sleep for him), whereas without the nap he is sleeping 12 to 13 hours. I never thought about it in terms of maximum awake times, it makes so much sense.

Seaweed - I also used to believe that all sleep training methods worked if you could be consistent. However I know that I was totally consistent with CC for 10 days with Clara and I don't really feel that it worked for her although I agree that it does depend on what you mean by "worked". It definitely did improve her sleep but she never consistently settled without crying and her sleep was still not great after it. Maybe I should have stuck with it for longer but honestly I felt it was long enough.

Sorry to those I have missed, wishing everybody good naps today and good nights tonight!

 

[aliss]

BnB curse = if you post that your baby is sleeping better, your baby will be guaranteed to get worse that night.

Last night went very well. I didn't say it (the curse!!!) but he actually went 6:15pm-9pm STRAIGHT without a disturbance in his own crib without a swaddle. We had wakeups at 9 (straight nursing), 11 (disturbed and a good 25+ minutes to settle PUPD, this is usually his difficult time the past few weeks anyways), (my memory gets hazy here, I didn't write down) about 2,3 (again a bit rough about 15 minutes of PUPD) and then almost 5, then slept till 5:55am (so, nearly 12 hours).

Now, if only my toddler could make it until amost 6 and I'd be set

This is a much needed improvement. so about 5 nursings total, which I am FINE with, right now, I'm just trying to get him to his own bed.

So last night was his FIRST NIGHT!!! in his own bed all night since he was born (srs lol, not even the 1st day he was born). And I have to say, he did very well.

I used high bumpers to prevent him from seeing us (he has to be in our room, due to space issues).

And he's in a great mood!! it's a shame today is vaccination day FML

 

[Noelle610]

All methods work, it's just the parents ability to be consistent that varies.

Noelle, I used to believe this too, but I consider our method to have failed for my LO. And I know for sure that we were really consistent about it. Would you say we just didn't give it long enough? Or, I guess, what exactly do you mean by "work"? Because it did improve his sleep, but it seemed like he never adjusted to it in terms of his stress level. I just don't understand why he didn't, to be honest. It still kind of haunts me as I think about what to try next. Anyway, sorry to derail this discussion from Aliss' situation, where it started, but it's just something I've been thinking about myself. Would love to hear your thoughts or anyone else's on this thread.

First,

I was making a very general statement, which isn't a good idea!

In truth, sleep training works this way for the vast majority of babies. But! There are actually a number (I believe the "experts" think it's 10% or so) that don't respond to sleep training. So please don't feel you've done anything wrong.

I also believe that some babies respond to certain methods, but not others regardless of a parent's consistency. Pick up/put down is a good example. It works like a charm for easier babies, but is often extremely stimulating for higher needs kids.

While you want your LO to get sleep that's solid and restorative, you want them to enjoy going to bed too. You want to create positive sleep associations and minimize distress. Sounds like you did the right thing by stopping.

Take a break and re-evaluate. I think we can help you pick a method - when you're ready - that may work for you.