Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[seaweed eater]

I'm feeling so tired and lost tonight. I don't know how to balance compassion for all LO is going through right now with the feeling that things are truly out of control and will not fix themselves. I really don't know what to do. I think we may try some sleep training again starting Friday but I'm so scared of that.

 

[bananaz]

I'm feeling so tired and lost tonight. I don't know how to balance compassion for all LO is going through right now with the feeling that things are truly out of control and will not fix themselves. I really don't know what to do. I think we may try some sleep training again starting Friday but I'm so scared of that.

Oh god, I know how you feel about being out of control, it's really the worst. What's your biggest sleep issue with him right now?

 

[stephie_corin]

Hi everyone

Polaris, that's great news! I'm glad poor Clara is almost back to herself. We are doing 2.75 in the morning, 3.25 in the middle of the day and 3.75 in the evening (give or take but that's roughly what I'm aiming for!) I know the morning waketime is pretty long but he seems to be waking uber early again so I've made a decision not to let him take his first nap until at least 8am, no matter when he wakes for the day. I'm hoping it might help correct the early wakings and at the very least not throw the routine for the rest of the day.

Gaiagirl/Noelle- you're right, so much of our sleep problems are perception. I read your comment last night Gaia, as well as Noelle's post on high needs babies and to borrow SEs words to Gaia, I'm feeling at peace with things. So I can't socialise like other mums as my son will only nurse at home in a quiet room and will only nap in his special chair -ha! While I plan to do everything I can to fix his night sleep I'm going to try and obsess about it less and just enjoy my little boy. I spoke to DH last night on the phone (he has been away and we've been bed sharing this week) and he was happy for us to bring C into our bed. I'm not sure if I will end up regretting it in the long run but I feel more rested and its easier to soothe C with a cuddle than having to pick him up and rock him back to sleep from his cot.

Gaia, re naps C is a few weeks older than your LO and I've just taken the plunge for 2 naps. He seems to be coping really well during the day and I am quietly optimistic it will help his night sleep. He does get a bit fussy due to the longer awake times but nothing terrible.

Radcat, that sounds so much like Cs schedule before we switched to two naps! You said you were going on vacation I think? I know it's not ideal to change up naps right before vacation but two naps makes the day easier (for me anyway!) but your LO might nap in his stroller so this could be irrelevant to you!

Notnic, what's the approach to feeding in the book? I haven't read it. It sounds interesting, one of my girlfriends has read it so I'll see if I can borrow her copy.

ER that sounds tough!

Kettle, welcome hon I would definitely keep an eye on the clock. From memory you should be aiming for 1.75 wake times at that age (obviously you don't need to be militant but I found clock watching really helpful.) I still do now as LO is very distractible and would stay up all day if I let him!

SE, I think you should go for the later bedtime! What have you got to lose? You obviously can't stop Munchkin napping in the car so I would just roll with it.

Last night was a big improvement on the last two. Following the lead of the Filipino woman I spoke to yesterday I gave no pain relief and his sleep was just the same, no worse, so I think it was they right decision for us. He settled quicker - only one hour of trying to ease him into bed out of my arms rather than the 3 it took previously!

Have a great day everyone!!

 

[stephie_corin]

I'm feeling so tired and lost tonight. I don't know how to balance compassion for all LO is going through right now with the feeling that things are truly out of control and will not fix themselves. I really don't know what to do. I think we may try some sleep training again starting Friday but I'm so scared of that.

Ah SE we cross posted. I'm so sorry you are feeling this way!!! I've felt like this many times and it seems like these sleep issues will never get better. Big hugs to you.

If you need to sleep train, then don't feel scared or guilty. You'll be doing what is right for you guys as a family.

 

[stephie_corin]

Bananaz, how are your early wakings? X

 

[seaweed eater]

Thank you

Really the only issue is bedtime. He hasn't been waking up too excessively, and naps have been pretty good. But he fights bedtime for hours. He's not sleeping enough at night, there's no predictability to it (he's been falling asleep anytime from 7:45 to 9:30), and DH and I are spending our entire evening trying to put him to bed.

I'm sure it's to do with crawling, but I'm really panicking about the fact that our bedtime routine is essentially gone. That's been the one constant, and obviously it's the one thing absolutely everyone says you need. And we basically don't have one anymore.

 

[bananaz]

Bananaz, how are your early wakings? X

Eh, it's hit or miss. Most mornings she's up around 5:30. After the 4-4:30 mornings I can deal with that, though

I'm glad you're seeing improvement! I hate the "trying to put them down" dance. I can't imagine having to do it for 3 hours though, ughhh. Hopefully things keep getting better for you

 

[seaweed eater]

Ah so much cross posting! Thank you dear Stephie LO is just one of those babies who really fight it. He cries so much. I hate that, and it makes my own sleep much worse. And I'm scared that it won't work again.

 

[seaweed eater]

Oh my goodness, HAPPY BIRTHDAY Charlotte and Elsie!!!!!

 

[stephie_corin]

SE, how well established is your LO on solids? Could you give him some fruit just before the car trip in the hope something sugary would keep him awake? Can you cut down his day sleep any further? X

 

[bananaz]

Thank you

Really the only issue is bedtime. He hasn't been waking up too excessively, and naps have been pretty good. But he fights bedtime for hours. He's not sleeping enough at night, there's no predictability to it (he's been falling asleep anytime from 7:45 to 9:30), and DH and I are spending our entire evening trying to put him to bed.

I'm sure it's to do with crawling, but I'm really panicking about the fact that our bedtime routine is essentially gone. That's been the one constant, and obviously it's the one thing absolutely everyone says you need. And we basically don't have one anymore.

Hm, that's so strange When is his last nap? Have you tried keeping a record of what you do during the hours leading up to bedtime to see if there's any pattern? It may not give you any amazing insights but at least you'd feel like you're being proactive about fixing the problem. That always helped me regain some sense of control, lol

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks. I think it helps a little to really try to stimulate him during his last WT, since he usually naps in the car from 5:20-5:25 or so which obviously isn't ideal (but he's been doing it for months with no issue). But that's not really foolproof. We gave him lots of time to practice crawling and walking around (with assistance of course ) today and he still wouldn't sleep until 9:05. But today may have been weird since he had a randomly long and late afternoon nap (2:45-4:30), and for a little while before he finally went to sleep it seemed like his mouth might be hurting. That's what I mean, it's just so difficult to tell...I can always find a way to explain it, but as an overall pattern it's just out of hand.

Usually his last real nap ends around 3 or 3:30 and then he has that quick 5 minute nap in the car. That second real nap isn't super consistent, though, since it's at daycare. But it very rarely ends later than 4.

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks Bananaz 530 is still tough! Every time he wakes before 530 I'm like 'come on!!! Would half an hour more kill you?!?' But when they are up, they are up!!

Happy birthday to your girl!

 

[stephie_corin]

How long has he been fighting bed time? If today is much worse that usual could you blame the long nap? I reckon you should tell daycare to wake him after an hour or hour and a half maximum. Will they do that?

It's hard when you think they are in pain. Huge big hugs xxx

ETA sorry just saw the overall pattern is really bad. I think some of the others will have some good ideas, don't lose hope xxx

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks Stephie I definitely plan to tell them not to let him nap so long, especially after 3:30. He has never taken a nap even approaching this length so it never occurred to me to warn them but yeah, it's the overall pattern that has me worried.

Another thing is that he's not behaving the same way every time. Makes it hard to know what's going on. Sometimes he just seems cheerful and uninterested in going to sleep (like instead of nursing he'll just babble at me and touch my face). Sometimes he falls asleep easily for me or DH but won't settle in his bed. Sometimes he seems angry. Sometimes he seems more overtired, where he's worn out but having trouble. Often several of the above in the same night.

I also worry that we have contributed to it by interrupting the routine to let him have more quiet playtime if he doesn't seem ready to sleep. I don't think that's the root of the problem, because he was acting undertired in order for us to want to do that, but now it happens every night. I worry that we have taught him that he gets to play more if he fights. He's definitely the kind of baby who would much rather play than sleep even if he's tired.

Sorry it's me me me tonight ladies one of those nights.

 

[gaiagirl]

SE I have literally been having that EXACT problem lately. It's sooooo aggravating. It's been up and down with a few easy nights peppered in but overall it's a major pattern for him. Last two night he hasn't gone to sleep until 9:30.

I have wondered about: teeth (he's currently getting the top two), over tired, under tired, days getting longer/light, not needing third nap.

Know youre not alone!!!!!!!!

Stephie - does your LO take long naps?

Happy Birthday to the one year olds!!!!!

 

[polaris]

Seaweed I'm sorry sorry you are in that horrible place of not knowing what to do for the best to help your LO to sleep. It sounds a bit like a vicious cycle of him not being able to settle to sleep until too late and not getting enough night-time sleep overall, which then contributes to his overall sleep disorganization. I still blame the car-nap but I've no idea what you can do about it. Would he stay asleep for longer and take a proper cat-nap at 5ish and then make it through better to a later bedtime? I know it's not ideal but if he's not falling asleep until later anyway at least he might be better rested after maybe a 30 minute cat-nap? But maybe that would be counter-productive and he wouldn't sleep until even later.

Regardless of that, I would definitely move bedtime temporarily later as you suggest so that you can hopefully reinstate the bedtime routine and have him get used to falling asleep at the end of it again. And then just be totally consistent with bedtime meaning bedtime and not bringing him out of the room.

Well, as for me, I forgot about the B&B curse! LOL. Clara slept really awful last night. Woke a couple of times in the evening which was OK but then woke up at 2 a.m. and then just wouldn't go back to sleep for 2+ hours and then woke again screaming at 6 a.m. at which point I fed her to sleep in the bed. I didn't have the heart to wake her at 7 in accordance with my plan so she's still asleep now. I've no idea what was going on with her that she wouldn't sleep - maybe teeth? maybe just that her routine has been so disrupted for the past week? I'm going to get her up now (8 a.m.) and try and get the day back on track.

 

[mrssunshine78]

This morning was worse than before, 352 she woke, IMO this isn't even morning, she went back to sleep about 520 for 20 minutes, but that was only because she was feeding. Does anyone else feel like they're not being a very good mammy with being so tired? I feel like some days I just don't have the energy to entertain her

 

[stephie_corin]

Gaia, he's a cat napper and always has been. I sit with him and when he wakes after half an hour I pick him up and rock him back to sleep and he does another half hour on me. Not ideal I know but it's working for now. I'm hoping when he gets in the swing of things he might start taking longer naps.

Polaris, what a shame! Her sleep has been so disrupted lately it could just be that. God I hate teething. It's so unfair, it seems like literally months of disrupted sleep! I hope if it is teething they pop through soon

Sunshine, yes I feel like this all the time! That is soooo early. You poor thing, I feel for you.

 

[NotNic]

Kettle - I don't think I'm alone in saying 4 months is dire! At 4mths so much is going on - growth spurts, feeding becoming more regulated, adapting to longer sleep cycles, teething etc. It can throw the best sleepers out and I know because Finlay STTN for the 6 weeks leading up to this. Looking back I'd say a good bedtime routine is essential. Work out a bath, feed, bed system that suits you and stick with it so they learn they are winding down for bedtime. Try and respond to night wakings the same way and then be ridiculously over the top when it is proper wake up time. I'm all dramatic about it being morning, pulling the blind up and chatting animatedly. My theory is that when its night time mummy isn't fun and not worth waking up for! When its morning then I'm reinforcing that the day has begun.
Not every baby does give sleep cues so its tough. For some of them the hours awake thing (if you look about 20pages back Twister reposted a chart) is a better guide, so putting them down for a nap a set amount of hours after waking. For us it sort of works, but really what I did was ignore set bedtimes for a few days. I watched his behaviour and realised that his eyes go pink when he's tired. He rubs his face not just his eyes, and can get a bit starey eyed. If we're edging to overtired he starts making a quiet grizzle noise, almost under his breath. We also use a dummy / paci and if we give him one when he's about to need a sleep he sort of sighs and relaxes his shoulders.

Gaia - looking at your routine I'd say that you might want to try pushing that first nap back to start later to get closer to a 3hr gap. We never had a third nap to drop (no-one told either of us that babies needed 3 naps!!) but at nursery he has started to have a third because he's too tired, and his morning nap isn't long enough because of other distractions. If you got him to be more tired before that nap you might start seeing longer naps and the third being optional, or could be replaced with a quiet time. We started to have longer naps at that age and bedtime has always been after 7.30pm for us.