Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[Noelle610]

aliss, that's great news!

Oh and the BnB curse? It's real. About a week ago I was telling Boo that Charlotte goes to bed like such a champ - self soothes, no crying, happy to be in bed. The next night she fought going to sleep for 45 minutes! Throwing her paci and blankey out of the crib, screaming for me and laughing when I came in to soothe her. They *know*.

 

[kettle28]

Have to tell you that I'm up to page 98 on your thread!! Been keeping me company yesterday and last night through night wakings!!

Would love to catch up all the way to current pages, but it may take a night or two! Already picked up some fab tips though through your experiences - thank you x

 

[Noelle610]

Have to tell you that I'm up to page 98 on your thread!! Been keeping me company yesterday and last night through night wakings!!

Would love to catch up all the way to current pages, but it may take a night or two! Already picked up some fab tips though through your experiences - thank you x

Hey there!

I sometimes can't believe this thread is still going! It's bittersweet for me. I'm so glad we can all share in this experience, but of course I wish all of our babies slept like dreams!

Hope you can find some support and advice here. Welcome

 

[Aimee4311]

Night 6 of not nursing to sleep- and I nursed to sleep! Impatience on my part... We had friends over and I wanted to get back out to them...ten minutes into our routine and she was almost asleep without nursing when Josiah came in to use our bathroom to pee so that woke her up and got her excited because daddy came in!

About 15 minutes later she had just fallen asleep, again no nursing, when Josiah came in to ask me a question! Grrrrrr.... He tried to be quiet, but whispers like an elephant. I wanted to kill him!

So then she was awake and resisting sleep harder than ever, and I finally caved and nursed her down.

I told Josiah he is no longer allowed in the bedroom at night until either I've come out and it's confirmed that shes asleep, or it's been a couple of hours (because I may have fallen asleep with her!)

 

[stephie_corin]

Oh Aimee! How funny! On weekends when DH is home for bath time he is banned from the last fifteen minutes before bed or C will never go to sleep.

Our day has been great again. Two naps works so well. I'm also breaking the feed to sleep association in a small way. Last week he literally would not nurse unless it was nap time or bed time. Twice today he nursed at non sleep times. Admittedly one I had to pin him down on a pillow in the living room and lean over him, but whatever works! We've had about 9.75 hours awake today so I'm hoping its enough to let him sleep now. He's just nursing to sleep as I type.

Interestingly, I had two conversations today about sleep with different nationalities. The first was with a Pakistani woman who was shocked C was waking as much as he did. She said she had never heard of babies sleeping like this and I said there was a whole gang of us on the Internet! I was also talking about teething to a Filipino woman and she brushed off the multiple night wakings, said it was totally normal and that they never give pain relief in the Philippines! Obviously those two women don't represent all Pakistani and Filipino babies but it was still interesting to me.

Wishing you guys all a wonderful night sleep xxx

 

[Noelle610]

Interestingly, I had two conversations today about sleep with different nationalities. The first was with a Pakistani woman who was shocked C was waking as much as he did. She said she had never heard of babies sleeping like this and I said there was a whole gang of us on the Internet! I was also talking about teething to a Filipino woman and she brushed off the multiple night wakings, said it was totally normal and that they never give pain relief in the Philippines! Obviously those two women don't represent all Pakistani and Filipino babies but it was still interesting to me.

So interesting! I think it's odd when people have no conception of babies waking often, even if they've had good sleepers themselves. There are just so many books and forums dedicated to getting kids to sleep, it must be obvious that it's an issue. Is cosleeping the norm in the Pakistani culture? That may contribute as well.

 

[stephie_corin]

Noelle I hadn't thought if this but you are right! Bed sharing is the norm and I'm pretty sure for extended periods too. X

 

[gaiagirl]

Stephie I think a big part of a cultures perception of sleep 'issues' is how much they are viewed as problems vs normal. In western cultures it kinda seems like we believe babies "should" be sttn by a certain age and so get stressed and seek help when they aren't. We talk about it SO much more than in a culture where they bedshare and don't expect sttn and so don't really discuss it because there's nothing to discuss! Lol

 

[polaris]

Clara is better! Yay! She's still spotty but totally back to herself, it's just fantastic. I wanted to get her back into her routine so I woke her at 7, she settled perfectly for both her naps, self-settling after feeding until drowsy. I woke her from both of her naps so that she wouldn't have too much daytime sleep, so she napped at 9.30 a.m. for one hour and 1.30 a.m. for 2 hours. Bedtime at 7 p.m. and she chatted to herself for 25 minutes and then fell asleep. No crying! It was like the perfect day for sleep after the nightmare of the last week!

 

[Noelle610]

GREAT news Polaris!

 

[polaris]

Very interesting the differences in cultural expectations as regards to babies' sleep patterns. I have a book about cultural dimensions in parenting which has been sitting on the bedside table for ages, I just can't seem to get around to it. I do find all that stuff fascinating though.

Kettle - welcome! Well done reading through to page 98 already! How is your LO sleeping?

Aimee - I am totally guilty of feeding Clara to sleep (or trying to, it doesn't always work) when it's convenient for me. I would totally have done the same in your situation. I don't think it matters in the bigger scheme of things, just go back to self-settling tomorrow. Definitely a bedroom ban for your OH though!!

Stephie - that is great news that two naps is working well. What wake times are you doing now?

 

[easyrhumba]

Hi easy, what are the napping conditions like in daycare? Is it dark, quiet, etc? How do they soothe him to sleep? How often do they put him down?

Well for the longest time they could only get him to sleep in a swing and swaddled. I had to put an end to that though because I felt it was hurting the whole crib cause at home. They started putting him in a crib with him swaddled and now he is too big a strong and can bust out of them. He does not take a paci either. They say that the infants are on there own schedules and eat when they are hungry and sleep when they are tired. Im sure thats the problem right there.Although he has a bottle every 2-3 hours and has a little solids in the morning and afternoon. The sleep part though they say they just watch his signs. He used to be pretty consistant 11ish, 2-3ish and sometimes a late afternoon cat nap before I picked him up.

The room is usually quiet (minus some occasional baby crying) with lullaby music playing and they have parts of the day where they encourage naps by turning the lights on low.

I trust them and I the only thing I can do to keep my sanity is hope they are telling me the truth about what they do. Although they could very well be the problem by giving up to soon on helping him soothe

It sounds like they're doing their best. Daycare naps are hard for the best of sleepers.

Would they be open to putting him down sooner? Sometimes once they show tired signs it's too late.

Here is my update..

He took one 1 hour nap (starting at 11 and he had been up since 5) and had been asleep for an hour when I picked him up yesterday. She said he fought it horribly for almost 45 minutes each time. He never woke up when I got him home... I even changed him and put his PJs on while he was out. Around 8 he woke up for a few minutes, had a bottle and was back out. He woke up at 11 screaming uncontrollably for 30 minutes before falling back asleep. He woke up his normal 3 times in the night and then was up at 4:30 for the day!!!

I have no clue what is going on
Going to bed though between 5 and 6 though is way too weird for me.

This morning I left 40 minutes early because I knew if I drove around enough he would fall asleep and at least get a little nap in. Which he did get to sleep for about 30 minutes.

 

[Noelle610]

Hi easy, what are the napping conditions like in daycare? Is it dark, quiet, etc? How do they soothe him to sleep? How often do they put him down?

Well for the longest time they could only get him to sleep in a swing and swaddled. I had to put an end to that though because I felt it was hurting the whole crib cause at home. They started putting him in a crib with him swaddled and now he is too big a strong and can bust out of them. He does not take a paci either. They say that the infants are on there own schedules and eat when they are hungry and sleep when they are tired. Im sure thats the problem right there.Although he has a bottle every 2-3 hours and has a little solids in the morning and afternoon. The sleep part though they say they just watch his signs. He used to be pretty consistant 11ish, 2-3ish and sometimes a late afternoon cat nap before I picked him up.

The room is usually quiet (minus some occasional baby crying) with lullaby music playing and they have parts of the day where they encourage naps by turning the lights on low.

I trust them and I the only thing I can do to keep my sanity is hope they are telling me the truth about what they do. Although they could very well be the problem by giving up to soon on helping him soothe

It sounds like they're doing their best. Daycare naps are hard for the best of sleepers.

Would they be open to putting him down sooner? Sometimes once they show tired signs it's too late.

Here is my update..

He took one 1 hour nap (starting at 11 and he had been up since 5) and had been asleep for an hour when I picked him up yesterday. She said he fought it horribly for almost 45 minutes each time. He never woke up when I got him home... I even changed him and put his PJs on while he was out. Around 8 he woke up for a few minutes, had a bottle and was back out. He woke up at 11 screaming uncontrollably for 30 minutes before falling back asleep. He woke up his normal 3 times in the night and then was up at 4:30 for the day!!!

I have no clue what is going on
Going to bed though between 5 and 6 though is way too weird for me.

This morning I left 40 minutes early because I knew if I drove around enough he would fall asleep and at least get a little nap in. Which he did get to sleep for about 30 minutes.

He's around 6 months old, right?

 

[Radkat]

Notnic sorry to hear your boy is sick. And teething! I hope you get some sleep soon.

Aliss and Aimee please keep us updated on your progress! We have hourly night wakings and nursing too and I'm desperate to stop but rocking him takes a lot longer that nursing and I think has just created another sleep association. Now I have to rock and nurse sometimes to get him to sleep!

Radcat, my main reason for transitioning to two naps is because three were giving C too much awake time. He would regularly be awake 10.5-11 hours and that combined with bad night sleep made him so overtired. He has big circles under his eyes! I'm hoping two naps will reduce his total awake time.

SE, great news!! I love you are reading six stories now, that is hilarious. We do three and by the third one (Goldilocks) I'm frantically turning pages: there's a bear, and a girl, oooo porridge... As C is rapidly losing interest! What method are you using? Sorry, I joined this thread after you'd started sleep training.

Polaris, how is Clara now? I how she's feeling better. I was thinking of you last night.

I so knew there was a BnB curse!!! Literally whatever I write here in terms of progress the opposite happens the next day. So I am putting it out there. Tonight C will sleep terribly and keep me up all night.

We are persevering with our two naps but I'm adding a bit of extra time to his awake times in the hope of avoiding last nights refusal to sleep until 9pm!

Have a good day everyone.

Thanks, Stephie. I need to talk to OH about total wake time since he watches her during the day. I know the last 2 days she hasn't napped well for the first two naps and then naps 1-1.5 hours in the afternoon. She does wake early ~5-5:30, but I bring her into bed with me and she sleeps until I get up around 7ish. Sometimes I kinda have to wake her up at this time. I'll investigate total wake time and get back to you all.

 

[easyrhumba]

Yes, about 6 and a half months.

 

[Noelle610]

Yes, about 6 and a half months.

Would you consider sleep training? I think it may help, but of course it all depends on what you're comfortable with.

 

[NotNic]

Yay for a happier and healthier Clara. Fantastic news Polaris!

Aliss - it could just be my son but we always get great sleeps after vaccinations. He's wiped out and dozy after them. Hope your lo is the same.

Gaia - apologies if this sounds like a stupid or patronising question but do you put your lo down when they're actually tired or when you think they should be going to sleep? If I put Finlay down minutes before he's probably going to want a sleep, we don't get an earlier nap or bedtime. We run the risk of him playing, getting a second wind and then being overtired. Often he will sit quietly and play and then fall asleep on his own. Sometimes though he's just too hyper and we can spend 30mins at least trying to convince him to lay back down. Now I try to have quiet time away from his bedroom - maybe a story or just a cuddle, or I let him crawl around until we see sleep cues. It's no fun battling with them to sleep and I try to make bedtime less of a conflict iykwim.

As for us last night he actually slept through and even more miraculously he went to nursery today, had three naps AND one of them lasted a whole hour!! I'm pretty certain we are going to see a tooth in the next week. Looking back with each new tooth we've had a horrendous night about 2-3 days before the tooth appears.

Has anyone read French children don't throw food? It was the closest to my parenting style and is a pretty funny read. There is a section about mealtimes I think where the American mum (who lives in Paris) asks their child's dr why she hasn't heard about the feeding routine generally recommended to French women. He quips that he doesn't mention it to British or American mothers because they get too fixated on it and stress out about the schedule!! If anyone fancies a read and they're a little more on demand in style then it is helpful. I found it reassuring that what I was actually doing instinctively was getting to know my sons rhythm.

 

[kettle28]

Yay for a happier and healthier Clara. Fantastic news Polaris!

Aliss - it could just be my son but we always get great sleeps after vaccinations. He's wiped out and dozy after them. Hope your lo is the same.

Gaia - apologies if this sounds like a stupid or patronising question but do you put your lo down when they're actually tired or when you think they should be going to sleep? If I put Finlay down minutes before he's probably going to want a sleep, we don't get an earlier nap or bedtime. We run the risk of him playing, getting a second wind and then being overtired. Often he will sit quietly and play and then fall asleep on his own. Sometimes though he's just too hyper and we can spend 30mins at least trying to convince him to lay back down. Now I try to have quiet time away from his bedroom - maybe a story or just a cuddle, or I let him crawl around until we see sleep cues. It's no fun battling with them to sleep and I try to make bedtime less of a conflict iykwim.

As for us last night he actually slept through and even more miraculously he went to nursery today, had three naps AND one of them lasted a whole hour!! I'm pretty certain we are going to see a tooth in the next week. Looking back with each new tooth we've had a horrendous night about 2-3 days before the tooth appears.

Has anyone read French children don't throw food? It was the closest to my parenting style and is a pretty funny read. There is a section about mealtimes I think where the American mum (who lives in Paris) asks their child's dr why she hasn't heard about the feeding routine generally recommended to French women. He quips that he doesn't mention it to British or American mothers because they get too fixated on it and stress out about the schedule!! If anyone fancies a read and they're a little more on demand in style then it is helpful. I found it reassuring that what I was actually doing instinctively was getting to know my sons rhythm.

I'm finding it hard to read lo's sleep cues at the moment, he shows yawns at about 30m after being wake sometimes, but battle to get to sleep, at the weekend he was doing 2hrs awake time and sleeping 1hr naps, and even did a 3hr stint in the evening

What sort of signs do your lo's show/did show at 4months? Do you think I should keep an eye on the clock a bit more to extend his awake time?

 

[gaiagirl]

No, not patronizing! I sometimes use his cues. Sometimes the clock. I find he can be very unreliable, lol.

I know we have top teeth coming in but I'm starting to wonder about doing just 2 naps. I'm a bit lost on this, I need help!!!!

Typical day lately:

Up anywhere from 6:30/7:30am

1st nap at 9-9:30 (lately has been 1.5hrs sometimes only 45min)

2nd nap around 1-1:30 (usually 45 min)

3rd nap around 4 (45min)

Bedtime around 7-8 depending on his cues

That's about 3 hrs nap total and he sleeps about 10 at night so I'm not sure about dropping the last nap!?!? I don't really want bedtime before 7 because it always seems so rushed in the evening!

He's just battled bedtime so much in the last month or so...

 

[seaweed eater]

Will read and respond to others later, but I think we are going to try a much later bedtime. 8:30. He's generally fighting for so long that that's when he goes to sleep nowadays anyway, and I wonder if this would be less stressful if we just tried going with it.