Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[gaiagirl]

Amy if you're OK holding then go with it! If not, try transferring her to her bed or yours maybe when she's in a deep sleep. Or my fave, nurse lying down and roll/sneak away!

 

[minties]

8 month sleep regression is hitting HARD. Ugh.

 

[bababas]

hi ladies. and thank you for all the help before.

there is one thing that has been happening though. sometimes... he wakes up again 1 hour after i put him down to sleep. any idea what it is. i noticed it happens when he is awake less than 2.5 hrs before bedtime. should i try to keep him up longer? my sleep book says he should be up 3.5hrs at that age before bed time. he has been up 3 hours the other days coz of short naps, then i have two kids to put down. those days he doesnt wake up 1 hour after i put him to sleep. he only looks for boob though and continues sleeping then.

im usually off to the pool then. OH has no success holding him to sleep with the pacifier, which usually he can do for naps. but never for his sleep time.

 

[AmyS]

SE, Gaia - I love holding her for naps! But I think it makes daycare naps harder on her.

 

[seaweed eater]

Sorry Minties, what's going on?

Amy - that makes sense. I'm sure she will do great with naps if you start working on those!

Bababas, what book says 3.5 hours? That seems really long to me for 4 months. But if he sleeps better when he's awake longer than 2.5, then keep him awake longer than 2.5! We're all about going with what works

 

[stephie_corin]

SE, you have a TOP tooth?!?! I'm so glad thing are getting better! And I completely identify with what you say about waking more rested when you wake up on your own. What's an adult sleep cycle? 90 minutes? I remember being advised by a lecturer at uni to take 90 minute naps - no shorter and no longer or you'd wake mid sleep cycle and feel rubbish!

Amy, fantastic news things are going ok still! I'm always interested in other people's definitions of 'ok'! Have daycare said she is struggling with naps now or is this your mummy instincts? SE said to me once that daycare naps are done completely differently to at home naps for her Munchkin and it seems to work ok - she might have something to add further. I agree with SE and Gaia - if you like the cuddles AND daycare naps are going ok, I'd stick with it. I love snuggling for naps and seeing that big grin when C wakes up.

Gaia, are you back at work when F is 1? Me too! Are you putting him in daycare? Have you thought about how you will do naps etc when you are at work? It's a scary prospect - I'm glad we will be doing it at the same time and can bounce ideas off each other!

Minties, so sorry! Hope all is ok! Could this be coinciding with the stopping swaddling?

Bababas, I agree! Go with what works! Although you said then you have two to put down? Polaris also has this issue. Can you play around with your oldest's routine and have them go down earlier or later?

Our night was better than the night before (phew!) but he is still waking every 45 minutes at the start of the night and has been all week. I'm sure sure sure he is teething, but - as he is the slowest teether in the world - I can't give pain meds every night. This sounds daft but can I do anything to help his teeth come through or is it just a waiting game? I'm sure the answer is 'no' but I really feel for him. We got a two hour stretch last night... I so badly wish his sleep would improve but I think until some of these teeth pop through it's not going to happen.

Or should I try to shake up our day routine?!?

 

[gaiagirl]

Stephie - I am going to start working slooowly after 12 months. A day or two with Dad (he will do a few Saturdays and take a weekday off) then my mom will do one day for awhile. Ill probably find a part time 2/3 day daycare spot for January hopefully! Im nervous for sure, but hope the slow transition helps! Honestly the thought of him being tired and distressed and me not being there makes me sick. I am so avoiding thinking about it right now.

It does help teeth come through do gently push on the gum but its not comfortable for them so not sure it's worth it!? Also a cold washcloth in freezer...I soak it in Clove tea first.

 

[polaris]

Good morning everyone!

Wow it is still sooo hot here! 27 degrees in Clara's room last night. It is so hard for her to get settled in that heat although I don't think she's waking more often than usual, it's definitely making bedtime harder. Thomas is finding it hard to settle to sleep too. We are really not used to this weather - I think the last time we had a summer like this was 1995! No AC here - but I am thinking about buying a fan for Clara's room, not even sure if that would help much but worth a try.

Expatttc - welcome to the thread, I'm glad you found us. I agree with the others that it depends what you are comfortable with to a large extent. For example, a gradual withdrawal approach might be helpful if you want to try to encourage self-settling but continue to provide the reassurance of your presence. This is where you put them down in the cot awake but sit by the side of the bed to comfort them but preferably without picking them up. I think this would be likely to still involve crying but at least you are there with them if you are not comfortable leaving her to cry on her own. Or there is the crying in arms method where you just stop whatever you have been doing to get them to sleep e.g. rocking/feeding but just sit and hold them until they fall asleep but don't rock or feed or jiggle etc. even if they cry. Some babies do better with greater physical contact whereas for others this is too stimulating and they will do better falling asleep in their own space.

Gaia - I think you might have to just accept the later bedtimes if you don't want to get him up earlier in the mornings. I do know how hard it is not to have time to oneself. Thomas is up until 9ish now because I have gone back to letting him nap, and while I would love to have him in bed by 7.30, it has helped to just accept that this is not possible at the moment due to my choice to let him nap during the day (which does give me a break during the day and also a much happier child!). It's still OK to have a bit of a moan though!

Kissesandhugs - I think I would be tempted to try night weaning too. Although honestly your LO's sleep sounds pretty good (it's all relative to what we are used to!!) I wouldn't cut out boob before bed though, just don't make it the last thing in the routine. It's normal to keep the bedtime feed for a good while longer.

SE - so glad that you had a better night and that the tooth is finally (almost?) through!

Amy - I wouldn't worry too much about naps if you enjoy holding her for naps - unless you think it is actually causing problems for daycare?

Sorry have to go, will finish post later

 

[bababas]

i everybody. i definitely have to make him be awake longer before his bedtime. he was kind of having awake eyes after his 2am feed. and woke up 6am! i made him cuddle a bit til 6.30, but the minute i moved he woke up

this sleeping book i was talking about is an icelandic book from a sleeping nurse here in iceland.

another thing.... in iceland the sun does not set right now... during sumer time. so this could be another weird factor. FOR ME at least. i am not used to it! everytime i go to the loo in the night, and i see the sun i feel like, ey it is daytime! and i have a difficult time going back to sleep.

 

[kettle28]

Hello!!

Abandoned all routine!! Awake times now are until he gets grizzly, then he'll either play a couple of minutes, have a dummy and drop off (no tears at all!) or fed to sleep, or if we're out and about he'll snooze in car/pram only if he's tired!

Bedtime used to be hours of tears, leading to car ride as he'd be so wound up, yesterday he was awake 4hrs after his last nap, was grizzly for last hour but when ready, popped him in cot, dummy and 2mins later, snoring his head off!!

Laughed out loud when someone (can't remember who sorry!) suggested on here that he was sleeping too much in day, give him longer awake times!! But persevered through grizzles for first couple of days and now he's used to longer awake and going down like a dream compared to just a week ago!!
Thankyou!!!! Xx

 

[Noelle610]

Bababas, ditch that book - sounds like a recipe for an overtired child. If you're looking for some good sleep reading, I'd suggest one of these books by an "expert". All different perspectives, but all research-based and current:

"Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" - Marc Weissbluth

"Goodnight, Sleep Tight" - Kim West (Sleep Lady)

"Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems" - Richards Ferber

"Sleeping Through the Night" - Jodi Mindell

 

[bababas]

Hello!!

Abandoned all routine!! Awake times now are until he gets grizzly, then he'll either play a couple of minutes, have a dummy and drop off (no tears at all!) or fed to sleep, or if we're out and about he'll snooze in car/pram only if he's tired!

Bedtime used to be hours of tears, leading to car ride as he'd be so wound up, yesterday he was awake 4hrs after his last nap, was grizzly for last hour but when ready, popped him in cot, dummy and 2mins later, snoring his head off!!

Laughed out loud when someone (can't remember who sorry!) suggested on here that he was sleeping too much in day, give him longer awake times!! But persevered through grizzles for first couple of days and now he's used to longer awake and going down like a dream compared to just a week ago!!
Thankyou!!!! Xx

good news that this is working for you

 

[bababas]

Bababas, ditch that book - sounds like a recipe for an overtired child. If you're looking for some good sleep reading, I'd suggest one of these books by an "expert". All different perspectives, but all research-based and current:

"Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" - Marc Weissbluth

"Goodnight, Sleep Tight" - Kim West (Sleep Lady)

"Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems" - Richards Ferber

"Sleeping Through the Night" - Jodi Mindell

tanx for the book tips. i will look them up on amazon.

 

[kissesandhugs]

Yes, I realize my sleep situation is better than most but it's taken almost a year to get here, I think I've done my time lol and that's just the "average" night..meaning 4 out of 7 nights a week he's up 2-3x...other nights it's back to the dreaded 1/2-hourly waking...and at least once a week he's up at 2/3 and up until 6 am when I wake up for work at 7.. And I'm done waking up in the middle of the night...and done with nursing in the middle of the night.

Still can't bring myself to do CC, I just didn't even try last night. Why is it sooo hard to do it now where as before it was hard but do-able

 

[bababas]

i took the example of sleep for a 4 month old and a 6-7 month old from the book. now this actually worked well with ds1. with ds2 i just hardly keep up. like time flies and he is almost 5 months now

the white in the graph represents sleep, and green is sleep time.

t means hours.

oh and this is an icelandic book. the day in iceland ends late. people wake up lik 8am to go to work, since it only takes 10 mins to go to work, hence the late bed time. we woke up 7 to go to work when we had to drive ds1 to playschool.

 

[polaris]

Kissesandhugs - I think it is harder in some ways with an older baby because they are so aware of what they want and can really communicate their unhappiness at you trying to change the routine. When I night-weaned my older boy I didn't do CC, I just stopped feeding him at night and tried to comfort him in whatever other ways possible when he woke. He was really angry and just wanted boob but it actually worked like a dream and he got the message really quickly, for us it actually only took one night with a lot of crying and after that he slept through! Not saying it would happen that quickly for you obviously but I think it's definitely worth trying to night wean at this age. I am waiting until Clara is over a year and then I will be working towards night-weaning if her sleep hasn't improved.

Kettle - that's fab that things have improved so much for you! You sound way more relaxed about everything!

Minties, sorry that you need this thread again now, sleep regressions suck!

Stephie it has got bad when we are celebrating a two hour stretch. Clara is actually consistently doing 1.5 to 2 hours in the evenings now (usually 2 hours) and to me this is an improvement! Amazing how one's perceptions of good/bad sleep change.

 

[Noelle610]

i took the example of sleep for a 4 month old and a 6-7 month old from the book. now this actually worked well with ds1. with ds2 i just hardly keep up. like time flies and he is almost 5 months now

the white in the graph represents sleep, and green is sleep time.

t means hours.

oh and this is an icelandic book. the day in iceland ends late. people wake up lik 8am to go to work, since it only takes 10 mins to go to work, hence the late bed time. we woke up 7 to go to work when we had to drive ds1 to playschool.

It's interesting, I was just talking to someone about this.

Studies have shown that the circadian rhythms of people around the world are shockingly similar. For example, the vast majority of people do best (sleeping most soundly and most restoratively) with a 10pm bedtime regardless of where they live. I'm not sure how the changees in culture, how long it's light out, etc. influence these factors. Weissbluth would aruge that they don't, but I'm not convinced.

Anyway, one of my personal pet-peeves is people saying "all babies are different" in regards to sleep and encouraging moms to "ignore the experts". Sorry, but the current advice of how much a baby should sleep and when they should sleep is based on years and years of research on circadian rhythms and biology. They're not just random guidelines and MOST babies do best if they sleep as recommended.

 

[bababas]

hi polaris. yes i also find it interesting. i noticed the icelandic babies here have a very late bedtime, 10pm-11pm.

they are shocked to know my sons would always wanna sleep 9pm since birth. (except when they changed to 2 naps they went around 7pm)

now my friend from italy and her son, is 4 months. no matter what she does he only wants to go down 11pm. and she said it is a real hassle!

do you think it is some kind of inner clock... maybe they inherited the earlier bed time from me lol. icelanders my age go very late to bed. i am an early bird. then again it is really difficult to go to bed in the sumer time with the sun shining outside. i just cant get used to it, even after 12 years living here.

 

[Noelle610]

hi polaris. yes i also find it interesting. i noticed the icelandic babies here have a very late bedtime, 10pm-11pm.

they are shocked to know my sons would always wanna sleep 9pm since birth. (except when they changed to 2 naps they went around 7pm)

now my friend from italy and her son, is 4 months. no matter what she does he only wants to go down 11pm. and she said it is a real hassle!

do you think it is some kind of inner clock... maybe they inherited the earlier bed time from me lol. icelanders my age go very late to bed. i am an early bird. then again it is really difficult to go to bed in the sumer time with the sun shining outside. i just cant get used to it, even after 12 years living here.

Yes, I do think that plays a part! Staralfur was telling me that circadian rhythms are genetic, so it makes sense. I'm an early to bed/early to rise kind of girl and so is my LO. I would have a hard time adjusting to that schedule also! Right there with you. Just not natural for girls like us, I think.

 

[bababas]

forgot one update. the two hour wake times also made him nap longer. he has been napping now 1.5 hrs always since the 2 hr wake times. usually it was more like 30 mins grumpy kind of thing. and i didnt really know what was going on. but could extend it with BF. but now it seems more in a nice schedule. no wakings in the naps.