Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[expatttc]

Hi ladies,

Thanks to Polaris for bringing me over to this thread
I'm exhausted! Sound familiar! Trust me, normally I am optimistic and a happy camper, and positive, but this has been two months - TWO MONTHS of my little one (now six months old) not sleeping more than 1.5 - 2 hours at a stretch through the night, waking to feed, and be picked up. I'm knackered.

The background:

-Breastfed, started solids just as she turned 6 months, just on 2 small meals of fruit/veg purees per day
-Feeds to sleep (I know, this needs to stop...the No Cry Sleep Solution is what we have tried to manage this, but it's NOT working)
-Now wakes crying, used to wake talking
-Takes 3 naps per day, about 45 minutes to 1 hour each
-Goes down around 7 at night after an hour long routine of cuddle/dancing, bath with Mommy or Daddy, massage with Daddy, book with Daddy, feed and cuddle with Mommy, asleep in arms then into crib
-Crib is in our room, can't be moved due to security and noise
-Longest stretch of sleep is 3 hours, which happens about every 3-4 nights.
-DH tends to sleep through the night so it is me doing the waking and soothing
-No teeth yet but they are imminent -- though I have thought this for the past two months...
-Working on crawling, but she's been on the edge of milestones (working on sitting, then sitting, on rolling over, then rolling, etc. for the past two months)...
-Not up for crying it out...

That's it, that's all, my extended happiness from across oceans awaits those who can help......

 

[stephie_corin]

Ok, I'm back!

Amy, I am loving cloth. I wish we made the switch sooner. It's fun and the diapers are so cute! It's tough squeezing C's big belly into them sometimes don't feel bad you can't soothe Chloe to sleep! I think that's a great sign that she's learning independent sleep!

Gaia, I'm so sorry you're evening was so horrible!!! Late naps are annoying. I hope today is going better for you! Try and stay cool in your 'heat wave' joking ...
I'm sure it's very hot! Do they build houses with AC in Canada? It's not common in Australia, even though summers can get really hot. In Dubai, every building has AC! We live in it year round (which probably isn't a good thing!). I see naps today were good with a nice early bedtime! Yay!

Bababas, that sounds like things are improving slightly! I'm pleased for you!

SE, it sounds like things are getting a little bit better? At least naps are improving! I've got my fingers crossed for you tonight! When C was waking early I found I had to respond quickly and get him back to sleep by any means as soon as possible or he was up for the day. I'm glad you got an extra 45 minutes! Oh I just saw your second post - wow, no nap! How was your night? I understand why you would be freaking out but honestly, you are right... Munchkin is strong and resilient. I think these babies are tougher than we give them credit for!

Polaris, I have faith she'll do a long stretch again soon! The heat makes it so hard to sleep. And I imagine you guys also don't routinely build houses with AC - you're probably really well equipped for the long cold winters!

 

[stephie_corin]

Hi ladies,

Thanks to Polaris for bringing me over to this thread
I'm exhausted! Sound familiar! Trust me, normally I am optimistic and a happy camper, and positive, but this has been two months - TWO MONTHS of my little one (now six months old) not sleeping more than 1.5 - 2 hours at a stretch through the night, waking to feed, and be picked up. I'm knackered.

The background:

-Breastfed, started solids just as she turned 6 months, just on 2 small meals of fruit/veg purees per day
-Feeds to sleep (I know, this needs to stop...the No Cry Sleep Solution is what we have tried to manage this, but it's NOT working)
-Now wakes crying, used to wake talking
-Takes 3 naps per day, about 45 minutes to 1 hour each
-Goes down around 7 at night after an hour long routine of cuddle/dancing, bath with Mommy or Daddy, massage with Daddy, book with Daddy, feed and cuddle with Mommy, asleep in arms then into crib
-Crib is in our room, can't be moved due to security and noise
-Longest stretch of sleep is 3 hours, which happens about every 3-4 nights.
-DH tends to sleep through the night so it is me doing the waking and soothing
-No teeth yet but they are imminent -- though I have thought this for the past two months...
-Working on crawling, but she's been on the edge of milestones (working on sitting, then sitting, on rolling over, then rolling, etc. for the past two months)...
-Not up for crying it out...

That's it, that's all, my extended happiness from across oceans awaits those who can help......

Hi and welcome

We are going through the same thing but We are up to 4.5 months here. Our situations are very similar and I deal with all night wakings at the moment. Chronic sleep deprivation is tough!

I think you will get lots of good tips here from all the sleep deprived mammas. However, I just want to preface my reply by telling you sometimes babies are just bad sleepers - I've tried many thing and we have a pretty perfect day time routine, however night wakings remain frequent. Sleep training isn't a good fit with us, so we are just waiting it out. You'll see some of the mammas are also WIO and others have tried different forms of sleep training, so we can give you lots of support and advice between us

Are you familiar with 'wake times'? It's basically an approach to day sleep where you put LO down for a nap based on an approximate time since last wake up. I think most of us are practicing variations of this approach. It's helpful but you do need to watch the clock. I would be tempted, if I were you, to increase wake times and drop to 2 naps. When I first switched I did 2.5, 3.25 and 3.5 hours between wake up and naps. You want to aim for 9-10 hours awake time and put LO down roughly 12 hours before natural wake time. You might struggle with short naps for a while but stick with it and naps should start to lengthen.

There are other sleep training techniques other than cry it out if you are interested in trying these. The basic premise is that you break the sleep associations in the hope baby learns to self settle.

- do you want to experiment with sleep training?
- can you lie down with LO for naps to catch up on sleep?
- it looks like you're an expat - me too. I know how tough it is being away from your support network. Do you have anyone to help?

Let us know the general approach you'd like to take and I'm sure you will get some helpful advice!

Best of luck x

 

[gaiagirl]

Lol, nope same story. Slept from 6:45-7:30. Then back in there I went for 30min and got him back to sleep only for him to wake up 10 min after I left. Then I tried for another 40min as he was happily crawling around and wanting to play.

So out he came to the den, we hung out and he fell asleep on me at 9:30 and then of course slept like a rock. It's not 8am and I am about to wake him up.

☀😜💗What a crazy kid!

I wouldn't care THAT much except I want some time to myself!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[stephie_corin]

Shame, Gaia! You're obviously way too much fun and F can't stand to be away from you! It sounds mean but could you wake him earlier (7?) then maybe he would conk out at 830 PM and you'd get an hour or two?

 

[kissesandhugs]

Okay I'm finally joining this thread. LO's sleep used to be terrible, would take forever for him to nurse to sleep, then he was up every hour if not more. Now he goes down somewhat easy and he's only up 2-4 times a night which is alright but I am desperate for him to self settle. I wish I could just lay him down and have him fall asleep without a fight and sttn!!!! Can I have help PLEASE?! I've tried CC a few times but something ALWAYS comes up. Teething, sick.

Now it's really hot in our apartment so we sleep in the living room since we only have an AC in there and the air doesn't reach the bedroom. What do I do in a situation like this? He has a pack and play but it's in the living room with us which makes it terribly hard bc he'll stand up and just stare and cry. Advice? please?

eta: He's coming up on a year old and I didn't plan on nursing past 1, at this point I'll never be done nursing. No special reason just personal preference.

 

[gaiagirl]

Lol Stephie that requires me waking up on my own by choice! Hahahahahah yah I know I should...

It's also soooo hard to wake him when he's so peacefully sleeping! I'm conflicted about that!

Kissesandhugs - No real advice because that sounds pretty good to me, lol. No but really, I can't offer much as I believe self settling to be a milestone that some reach as late as 2/3 years. If you are going to stop nursing soon though, you might want to try and gently move towards not nursing to sleep (not sure if you are?) so that you aren't left without that tool!

 

[kissesandhugs]

Lol Stephie that requires me waking up on my own by choice! Hahahahahah yah I know I should...

It's also soooo hard to wake him when he's so peacefully sleeping! I'm conflicted about that!

Kissesandhugs - No real advice because that sounds pretty good to me, lol. No but really, I can't offer much as I believe self settling to be a milestone that some reach as late as 2/3 years. If you are going to stop nursing soon though, you might want to try and gently move towards not nursing to sleep (not sure if you are?) so that you aren't left without that tool!

I have been trying to NOT nurse to sleep but it is impossible bc he constantly roots around. It's been getting better but I have to practically hold him down and rock and sing for a verrrry long time until he finally falls asleep. During the night though, forget about it he will ONLY nurse back to sleep. He can go on cows milk soon so I'm not sure if I should give him a sippy to fall asleep with? Just seems like switching to another bad habit?

 

[daneuse27]

Hey kissesandhugs, I've had a similar issue with my daughter. I wanted to stop nursing close to the 1 year mark, and she was still nursing to sleep so I had to put a stop to that before I could even think about weaning.

Do you use white noise, a dark room, or a very strict bedtime routine? Ive been doing this, and I find night times to be the easiest. I put her in bed awake, give her a dummy, and she often falls asleep before my eyes in the crib (this has only been going on for a few days.) For naps, is a little harder, as its daylight so I usually cuddle with her and give her the dummy and then when her eyes are closed, i put her down (trying to do it little bit more awake each time.) Ive been told that consistency is best with this and that they get it eventually.

And I realize the dummy could be another bad habit, but since she only uses it for falling asleep, i think its a good transition from the boob to nothing. Shes reluctant to take it at first, but I just persist until she does.

Im no expert at all, and not sure what you've tried already but just wanted to offer whats working for me.

 

[kissesandhugs]

Hey kissesandhugs, I've had a similar issue with my daughter. I wanted to stop nursing close to the 1 year mark, and she was still nursing to sleep so I had to put a stop to that before I could even think about weaning.

Do you use white noise, a dark room, or a very strict bedtime routine? Ive been doing this, and I find night times to be the easiest. I put her in bed awake, give her a dummy, and she often falls asleep before my eyes in the crib (this has only been going on for a few days.) For naps, is a little harder, as its daylight so I usually cuddle with her and give her the dummy and then when her eyes are closed, i put her down (trying to do it little bit more awake each time.) Ive been told that consistency is best with this and that they get it eventually.

And I realize the dummy could be another bad habit, but since she only uses it for falling asleep, i think its a good transition from the boob to nothing. Shes reluctant to take it at first, but I just persist until she does.

Im no expert at all, and not sure what you've tried already but just wanted to offer whats working for me.

We have a bedtime routine and I use a dark room, usually no white noise besides me singing softly or shushing. He doesn't take a pacifier anymore and hasn't since 6 months. I honestly think it would be much better if he did but he absolutely refuses it. I even tried about a month ago when I was at the end of my rope and he completely refused

 

[gaiagirl]

Kissesandhugs - Yah, honestly I am a bit terrified to try and deal with night time without nursing, since mine won't take a pacifier and I am not comfortable with anything but BM or water at night for dental health!

It's a tough one. Dr Jay Gordon has a gentle night weaning method designed for 12+ months (actually designed for bedsharers but I'm sure could be used for others too). You could try first eliminating the initial nurse to sleep and then once he's used to that try JGs night weaning?

Possibly after night weaning he may not wake those 2-4 times, although its not a guarantee that babies who don't eat at night STTN!

 

[seaweed eater]

Oh Stephie every 45 minutes! That might be interesting but it also sounds dreadfully exhausting!! I really hope you had a restful day.

Expat, I'm sorry you have had to find your way here. Stephie asked some good questions. In general it would be helpful to know what your daily routine is at this point. Dropping to two naps is something you could consider at this age. Does your LO go down easily at bedtime or does she fight it?

Gaia, I hate to say it but I agree with Stephie, I think waking him from a late nap will really help!!! Also, can you wake up early and have your time to yourself in the morning before F is awake instead of expecting it in the evening before he's asleep? I know it's easier to stay up late, but if the biggest issue for you is not having time to yourself, I wonder whether that could be a way around it.

Kissesandhugs, sorry to see you here what exactly has happened when you've done CC? Can you give us some details on that? If you're willing to sleep train I think we should be able to find some way for your LO to sleep better and not need to nurse. I'd also like to help you brainstorm some ways you could sleep in a separate room from LO or at least give him his own space. Could you use fans to help get the cool air to other rooms of your house? Or if not, maybe use some sort of partition so that he can't see you? Also, white noise might actually help particularly if you are in the same space, because if he's sensitive to noise it will help mask the other sounds in the room. I think giving a sippy cup with cow's milk before bed is not recommended because it can increase the risk of tooth decay. (Breastmilk is different because of its antibacterial properties.) So I wouldn't count on that as a solution. As I said, if you are willing to sleep train I am hopeful that we can find something that will help you.

We actually had a reasonable night after the terrifying 8-hour WT. I mean reasonable compared to this week -- my standards have shifted. After waking at 45 minutes he slept over 5 hours, and he woke up when I stepped on a creaky floorboard on the way to the bathroom, so perhaps he could have gone longer! After that he woke up approximately a zillion times, I didn't bother keeping track. But altogether over 11 hours of sleep, which is unusual, and up at a reasonable time.

I think it made such a difference that I managed to sleep a 3 hour stretch and wake up on my own. Getting to wake up on my own instead of being woken by crying seems to increase the restfulness of a given stretch of sleep by at least 50%, maybe 100%. Know what I mean?

Also we have some definite progress on teething. I can't tell whether the tooth has actually cut yet, but if not, it at least looks very different from yesterday!

 

[kissesandhugs]

Kissesandhugs, sorry to see you here what exactly has happened when you've done CC? Can you give us some details on that? If you're willing to sleep train I think we should be able to find some way for your LO to sleep better and not need to nurse. I'd also like to help you brainstorm some ways you could sleep in a separate room from LO or at least give him his own space. Could you use fans to help get the cool air to other rooms of your house? Or if not, maybe use some sort of partition so that he can't see you? Also, white noise might actually help particularly if you are in the same space, because if he's sensitive to noise it will help mask the other sounds in the room. I think giving a sippy cup with cow's milk before bed is not recommended because it can increase the risk of tooth decay. (Breastmilk is different because of its antibacterial properties.) So I wouldn't count on that as a solution. As I said, if you are willing to sleep train I am hopeful that we can find something that will help you.

CC was going really well for the most part, at the initial lay down. But during the night was horrible, we were practically doing CIO and we both work full time so it was extremely stressful and I unfortunetly gave up. I've been wanting to do it again but like I said he's ALWAYS teething or sick I think he's done teething now. I'm going to try to figure something out sometime so he can't see us, we usually have the TV on as well so I think we're going to keep that off, dark room, we have a seahorse that we used the first attempt that seemed to work that I can use, and maybe "more" of a bedtime routine. We don't read him a book so it's not much but maybe I'll start doing boob, bath, book, bed? Should I just cut the boob part out though? And I don't want to do cio even though people recommend it at an older age like his? And what should I do about him standing up repeatedly?

 

[seaweed eater]

How long did you try CC each time? I know it is really hard to hear them cry so much if you're sleep training, I think it's wise expect sleep to get worse, for all of you, before it gets better.

I think it's up to you whether to cut out the boob part of bedtime routine. If it's not last, it won't be the way he's getting to sleep, so it won't be as necessary and you'll have more flexibility with it. When would you feed him before bed if it were not part of the routine? I think it would be a good idea, at least at first, to make sure he is full reasonably soon before bed. That way, if he's crying, you won't wonder whether it's because he's hungry, which will free you to be more consistent.

About standing up, does he know how to get down by himself? If not, or if he's just learning, practicing during the day could help. If he should have no problem getting down safely but just isn't doing it, I would just leave him. It might make the wait longer (unfortunately) but part of learning to SS is learning to get himself into the right position to go to sleep. Depending on the sleep training method you are using, if it's one where you are staying in the same room as him (and he knows you are there), you could encourage him verbally to lie down. But there's no reason to do it for him if he can do it himself.

 

[kissesandhugs]

How long did you try CC each time? I know it is really hard to hear them cry so much if you're sleep training, I think it's wise expect sleep to get worse, for all of you, before it gets better.

I think it's up to you whether to cut out the boob part of bedtime routine. If it's not last, it won't be the way he's getting to sleep, so it won't be as necessary and you'll have more flexibility with it. When would you feed him before bed if it were not part of the routine? I think it would be a good idea, at least at first, to make sure he is full reasonably soon before bed. That way, if he's crying, you won't wonder whether it's because he's hungry, which will free you to be more consistent.

About standing up, does he know how to get down by himself? If not, or if he's just learning, practicing during the day could help. If he should have no problem getting down safely but just isn't doing it, I would just leave him. It might make the wait longer (unfortunately) but part of learning to SS is learning to get himself into the right position to go to sleep. Depending on the sleep training method you are using, if it's one where you are staying in the same room as him (and he knows you are there), you could encourage him verbally to lie down. But there's no reason to do it for him if he can do it himself.

Okay thanks for the advice yes he can get down perfectly fine by himself so I'll just let him be. Coming up to a year, I would just feed him dinner and hope that would work for the night but makes me nervous doing that. I'll just keep boob in with the routine for now!

 

[seaweed eater]

I think it's pretty common to keep giving them milk or some other kind of snack after dinner it just can't be the very last thing because you will need to brush teeth afterward.

 

[AmyS]

SE - I understand what you're saying now about being hard to WIO!! I hope you have figured out a happy medium for Munchkin. Glad you got some solid sleep, and yippee for teething progress!!!!

Polaris - Do you think the heat is causing the restless nights? We've been having the same thing here, and that's all I can think of that would be causing it. Besides for the usual teething.

Stephie - Sorry for your rough afternoon! I hope you managed to get some sleep during the night!

expatttc - I still feed to sleep too (8 months old). I don't think this is such a bad thing, based on my own LO's sleep story!

Gaia - I agree with Stephie, you must be too much fun!

kissesandhugs - Sorry, I'm not much help! I'm a sleep newbie too, and trying to slowly figure this out! The ladies on this thread have great ideas though!
___________________

If our nights keep going okay, I need to start working on our naps!!! I'm still holding her for all naps. How do I stop doing this? Start with one nap per day?? I think it will be really hard to do this when I'm only really home with her for naps on the weekend. And then my mom holds her for naps too when she watches her one day a week. What can I say, we like to cuddle!!

 

[seaweed eater]

Amy, why stop holding her for naps if it's working well for you? Anyway, if you do want to stop, I wouldn't do just one nap per day. That will seem inconsistent, so you should do the same thing for all of them. Does your mom watch Chloe at your house or at hers? She may be ok with being held for naps by your mom and not by you, especially if it's a different location, or she may not.

 

[gaiagirl]

Oh I'm definitely not doing late naps anymore! No way! It's just the morning it's hard to wake him. And I would just get up but I don't like him being in my bed alone because its not on the floor and the coffee and TV are downstairs...lol.

I guess I could bite the bullet and just start waking him earlier but I think I will hold off until end of summer for that. I still have 4 months before I need to worry about wakin up early!

 

[gaiagirl]

(But yes I do realize I am complaining about something and being annoying by not doing anything to help myself, haha)