Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[mellyboo]

I'm having a hard time with jords 2nd nap lately there's been days where she won't take it .. It's becoming stressful!

 

[Noelle610]

Melly how long is the first nap?

 

[stephie_corin]

Gaia, I'm so pleased for you that you had a great night! I'm nervous about day care germs too, although SE's experience is reassuring! I'm already on the email list for our nursery and I keep getting scary emails about weird illnesses I've never heard of (hand foot and mouth!?!).

SE, I really hope munchkin has a speedy recovery. Poor little guy, it's been a rough few weeks for you both.

Polaris, I'm so sorry about your bad night. Fingers crossed things are back on track soon!

Noelle, so sorry about your bedtime battles!!

Melly sorry about the nap struggles!

We had a bad night last night. I feel like he has been teething his two front teeth for months. They are so swollen and look so close to cutting through. I'm not sure if this is what disturbed his sleep last night but it could also be his terrible naps yesterday. He did 20 minutes in the morning and 45 in the afternoon. I thought - great! He'll do a Cloe/Munchkin/Jords and sleep really well ... Nope!

Fingers crossed things improve for us all soon and Gaia's good luck continues!

 

[AmyS]

polaris - Glad the longer wake time is working well for you! That's very encouraging. Hopefully that one night was just a fluke, or attributed to teething or something.

SE - Is Munchkin better yet?? I hate when our babies get sick! Makes me feel so helpless.

Gaia - Great update! That's a good stretch of sleep.

Stephie - Are you back yet, or still on vacation? The front top teeth must take forever to come in! A coworker's boy has been working on them for over a month now, and they seem to be more sore than the bottom ones. (OT: I have seen all of Vampire Diaries season 4 - I DVR during the season, and watch when hubby isn't around.)

Noelle - Have you thought about a plan for Charlies's naps at daycare? Hopefully, this will work itself out soon for you!

For those wondering about daycare germs, Chloe constantly had cold symptoms when we started. She'd have a really stuffy nose, then it would clear up, and within a few days it'd be bad again. They all chew on the same toys during the day, and most of the babies have snot running down their face, so it's no wonder she caught it all! But, she is one of the healthiest babies there, they said. She never runs a fever or gets "really" sick. Also, germs now mean she might be more resistant later (hopefully). And I've noticed that we've been snot-free for a few weeks now! Yippee!

I did a mud run this weekend with a bunch of gals from work, and all I wanted to do was sleep after. Chloe decided otherwise! I think the short naps all week caught up with her, so she was up at least 7 times. Last night was much better, thankfully, but she was still up too early for the day - 5:15am. Oh well.

 

[stephie_corin]

We are flying back tomorrow. Wish me luck! It will be the first time we've had him out past bedtime since he was a few months old and could sleep in the stroller! Bedtime is 7ish and we land at 8pm and have an hour drive back home.

I'm trying to decide if I should: 1) get him up at 530 and do a cat nap at 8, 12 and hope for a long sleep in the plane around 4ish OR 2) try and get him to sleep in and push the first nap out as long as possible (it wouldn't go past 10.30/11 I think) and then do a second nap on takeoff around 4pm. I don't really fancy getting up at 530am but the three naps is possibly the better option.

Any, thanks so much for the germ reassurance! I'm sorry Chloe slept badly after your run!

 

[seaweed eater]

Stephie, three naps sounds better from the perspective of not being sleep deprived, but would he do it? Sometimes I've planned days around three naps but Munchkin just won't go down a third time anymore. Being in the plane for the third one could make the difference, though. Do you have a time difference to get over, too? If you're traveling west across time zones that would be another reason to try extending his WTs and making 4 the second nap...

Sorry, that probably wasn't very helpful! Good luck!! I hope it goes as smoothly as the way out did, and that tonight is better than last night. I can't believe how fast your week away has gone...I'm sure you feel the same way!

So funny about the weird illnesses. At our center whenever a kid gets one of a particular set of common illnesses (conjunctivitis, roseola, hand foot and mouth etc) they post a flier near the sign-in area with information about it. It's a weird experience to read about diseases every time we arrive there. I always think someone should do a psychology study to see what the effects of that are on parents' moods But yeah, I have definitely heard that they have stronger immune systems once they start school, pretty sure there's been research on it.

Amy, sorry about your rough nights glad last night was better, hope things are back to normal tonight! Glad about the snot-free weeks it's great that Chloe hasn't been sick beyond just cold symptoms. Sounds like she has a strong immune system already.

Munchkin has no fever today, knock on wood, so hopefully things are getting better. Last night was rough but not as bad as the previous night. As a side note, I've been sleeping on the floor in his room (he can't get through sleep cycles on his own anyway so I'm not as worried about disturbing him) and I think it does make a difference to how rested I feel in the morning, compared to sleeping down the hall...hmm.

 

[seaweed eater]

Do any of the rest of you think back with amusement about how naive you were about sleep in the first month after your LO was born? I could swear he was up every 3 hours when he was a newborn. I thought that's the toughest it would get!

 

[AmyS]

Do any of the rest of you think back with amusement about how naive you were about sleep in the first month after your LO was born? I could swear he was up every 3 hours when he was a newborn. I thought that's the toughest it would get!

Very naïve! I just thought it would keep getting better and better. At 2 months old, she was waking 3 times a night, and my hubby was complaining....and I told him, "Just give it time, and she'll be sttn like everyone else's baby!" Naïve and overly optimistic.

Now, when she sttn, I tell him, "Just give it time, she'll be back to punishing mommy soon."

 

[polaris]

Do any of the rest of you think back with amusement about how naive you were about sleep in the first month after your LO was born? I could swear he was up every 3 hours when he was a newborn. I thought that's the toughest it would get!

LOL oh yes definitely!

Thomas was a really dreadful sleeper as a newborn so when Clara was doing three hour stretches as a newborn I was convinced that I had lucked out and got a good sleeper this time. I was boasting to everyone about how I was sure she was going to sleep through the night early. Ha, you would think I would have known better seeing as it's my second time doing this.

Stephie, good luck with the plane journey home. I would personally go for trying to get him to sleep in and going for the second nap at 4 p.m. on the plane. At least then he would be starting the day well rested and better able to cope with the disruption to his routine, whereas if you get him up earlier than usual he will be starting the day tired and there's no guarantee that he would even take a third nap when he's not used to it.

SE, glad that Munchkin is a bit better today. It's horrible when they are unwell and fever tends to really disrupt sleep in my experience. No harm giving pain meds when he's so clearly unwell and miserable, poor thing.

Amy, sorry about the bad night, Chloe has been doing so well with night time sleep, it must make it worse when she wakes up so often after you are getting used to nice long stretches.

Melly - can you post your daily routine?

Gaia - yay for such a lovely long stretch in the evening! It does give you hope that eventually this sleep nightmare will resolve itself, doesn't it?

As for me, I had a truly awful bedtime with the two of them yesterday, I already posted in Toddlers about it so I'm not going to go into it again, but I basically totally lost it with Thomas for no reason just because I was stressed out that Clara wouldn't go to sleep. It was really awful and I've been feeling quite down about it today.

In other news, I am wondering if Clara's extra disturbed sleep at the moment is partly developmental. She is really just doing new things every day at the moment. She has started saying "no" and "bye bye" and she understands so much more language and will follow instructions like "clap your hands" or "wave bye bye". She is also standing unsupported more and more each day and I'm sure she is really close to taking her first steps. So maybe it's not surprising that she's having a bit of trouble sleeping when she has so much going on? I am enjoying her so much during the day at the moment, but I do just wish she would sleep a teeny tiny bit better!

 

[Noelle610]

Stephie we are just playing it by ear at daycare. We are really on transition, finally... And I hate it! She seems to want to nap at 10am and that just doesn't work for any of us

Re: newborn sleep... Charlie wouldn't sleep for more than 45 minutes at a time! She never had a sleepy phase. Torture. But everyone told me it would be better at 6 weeks

 

[Matilda85]

Can I join?
I am so in need of some sleep advice. My little man has just turned six months. He use to sleep brilliantly, doing 7 hour plus stints, but that all kind of went downhill once the 4 month sleep regression occurred. He got back to normalish around 5 months but the last few weeks has been waking every 2 hours. It is the worst he has ever slept and I so need some suggestions
I am not keen to do cc or cio. I kind of think it is my own fault. When 4 months hit i was desperate so let him nap on me for his day sleeps, in a woven wrap, and then held his hand during the night through the cot bar. He weaned himself on the hand hold at around 5 months but now whenever I put him in the cot he wakes up and cries. I can't stand seeing him cry and pick him up. Have tried sh pat but it seems to wake him more. The instant I pick him up he falls asleep on me. Would love any advice or suggestions.

 

[Matilda85]

Also I think I may have formed a feed to sleep association as he loves to fall asleep having milk. He is ebf and we just started solids a few weeks ago. Seems to coincide with his sleep turning to crap.

 

[seaweed eater]

Aww Polaris you have a really tough job with the two of them and you are doing it wonderfully. They are lucky to have you. All of us do things we regret in really stressful moments. Please don't be hard on yourself.

It really does seem like Clara has had a developmental spurt lately. So exciting, but I'm sure it is making sleep tough.

Noelle, sorry about the nap transition! I'm quite sure that's exactly what's going to happen with Munchkin when it's time. I can't believe C never slept more than 45 minutes as a newborn...I can't imagine what you must have thought and felt!

Matilda, welcome and sorry you are here 6 months is exactly when most of us found this thread, if you look back. It can be a surprisingly tough time for some babies.
Here are my ideas for you:
1) Nap transition. Can you post your daily routine? Things are often changing around that age and longer wake times can help them sleep better. Won't teach your LO to self-settle, but at least maybe you won't have as much trouble putting him down or have to wake up as much.
2) Shh pat is really useless for many babies, so don't worry about that if it didn't work for yours. Have you heard of or tried the No Cry Sleep Solution gentle removal/Pantley pull off technique (it goes by a lot of names)? That is a gentle solution that could work for you. If it doesn't work then you may have to decide on either WIO or letting him cry.
3) If WIO ends up seeming right, is bedsharing an option you'd be willing to explore?
4) Does LO have any signs of allergies or food sensitivities? This is probably not the culprit. But sometimes food sensitivities do disrupt sleep. Just because you said that the worse sleep coincided with the solids. Again, unlikely, and there are plenty of more likely explanations at this age, but possible.

Also please don't feel badly about what you tried at 4 months. Some experts advise not to let them cry at that age, as you know (it's repeated all over BnB -- not until 6 months), so of course you did what you had to do. Lots of babies learn to settle without those things on their own. It's not your fault that yours didn't.

 

[Matilda85]

Thanks for the warm welcome seaweed eater. So his daily routine tends to be a bit varied but generally he wakes up around 7 to 7.30, usually by 9 he is tired so I settle him. Usually he will wake up around 10ish. He then will tend to go back down around 12 and sleep for an hour and then go down for his last nap around 3.though he often fights this one and just falls asleep on the boob around 4. So generally every 2 hours I put him down. We then put him to bed at around 6.30 after his bath and a feed.
Do you think longer wake times would help
Haven't heard of the no cry technique. I will go Google it.
I would be happy to wio if I knew it would improve one day. My fear is that I'll go back to work next year and he won't be able to sleep at daycare
What signs would i look for in regards to a food allergy
Thanks for all your help

 

[NotNic]

Hi everybody. Sorry I haven't been online recently. We had two fantastic weeks in Spain. I'll try to catch up, but its been more than 20 pages since I last checked in!!

Finlay was pretty good sleep wise while we were away. He woke 6.30/7am CET time, had a long 2hr nap from 11ish, then would have another 90mins around 3ish. He would then stay awake for dinner, falling asleep around 10.30/11pm. To begin with he'd wake a few times but this got better and he sttn. Probably because how tired he was from all the playing and the late nights! It was a busy hols though as F's molar finally cut through, then his 4th bottom tooth came through and two more molars are also cutting now. He's also taken a few steps but we're not walking yet. His speech has started to pick up too. He's been a busy boy!

 

[stephie_corin]

SE how is Munchkin? Is he better? I'm sorry he is waking every sleep cycle. Nights like that are so rough. How are you helping him between cycles to get back to sleep? I've also read that kids in day care have stronger immune systems. Apparently all kids get approximately the same number of illnesses in the early years but the benefit of them attending day care is that the illnesses don't take them away from school (because they build up their immunity earlier).

I was definitely naive about sleep. Cully slept 12 hours straight at 3 months, not even waking for a feed! The four month regression completely blew me away, but not in a good way!

Polaris, it sounds like Clara's working on so many awesome new skills! How exciting for you! I'm so sorry about your horrible night. Did you ever look into the audio books? That might be less stimulating than TV time.

Noelle, nap transition!!! Yay! Could you give her a cat nap at ten and her main nap after lunch?

Matilda, welcome! I definitely think you should consider longer awake times and in a few weeks try and drop that third nap. The awake time closer to bed time should lengthen first. If you aren't prepared to CC/CIO there are lots of other options that involve breaking sleep associations gently, or just WIO. I'm WIO because my boy is pretty sensitive and cries a lot if he isn't helped to sleep. I know it's going to take a while for things to get better but I am helping him as best I can by avoiding overtiredness and trying to get a good day routine. What are the sleep associations that bother you the most? (If you want to break them), pick one at a time and and we can help you with some strategies.

NotNic, so glad you had a great vacation! And congratulations in the STTN!

And... Still no front teeth!! I'm going to spend this week getting back into our routine and then re-assess things. I'm feeling a bit lost - his sleep is so bad again but I don't know if its teeth/developmental/over stimulation/over tiredness... He had a few good night and now it's all gone bad again. I'm hoping it was just the holiday disruption but we shall see how this week pans out.

I've heard the first nap is really important developmentally. Does anyone know why? Is it bad to try to drop to one nap early? (Under 1 year).

X

 

[Noelle610]

Ooh Stephie, I hadn't though of that. GREAT idea!

 

[seaweed eater]

Matilda, how is he at the end of the 2 hours? Fighting his last nap is one sign of being ready to transition. You could try it for a few days and see how it goes. If your LO is having 8 hours WT total, you could try something roughly like 2.25-2.75-3 to start with. Just know that if you do try this, LO will have a hard time with the longer WTs at first, but things can change if you push through it for a few days.

I think other signs of allergy would be stomach upset, mucusy diapers, rash, ...anyone else know?

NotNic, wow, F has been busy indeed! How exciting. I'm glad you guys had a good trip his sleeping schedule sounds perfect for Spain really! Hope he hasn't been suffering too much with the teeth. I remember you said you tend to have one horrible night the week a tooth cuts through. I'm sure the molars are especially tough.

Stephie, I'm so sorry you had such a rough day yesterday that lost feeling is so difficult. But it will pass!! No matter what, it will pass, and you will feel like things are more predictable again. Please be patient with yourself, remember you've just been traveling. Spending at least a week getting adjusted to being home sounds like a good plan. I don't know the answer to your question about the first nap, but doesn't he take two good naps on normal days? Why do you think that's the solution? To be perfectly honest I think sleep associations are a more likely culprit than some issue with his routine. I really hate to say that because I know how much work you've done on that, and that you may have reached your limit. But didn't his good sleep coincide with those few times he self-settled the week before you left? I just wonder whether this may be the best you can do for now while WIO. I would be thrilled to be wrong about that I hope other people have suggestions.

Thank you for asking about Munchkin, he seems to be over his illness and his sleep is much better again. When he was waking all the time I was nursing him every time. The worst night (I think it was Saturday?) he often would wake up after 10-20 minutes, not even a full cycle. Clearly uncomfortable. Such a relief to see him better now.

 

[mellyboo]

Sorry for being so slow I've been so busy lately with a crawling baby it makes things THAT much more busier i'm sure some of you no aha!

Her routine is pretty strict and always has been pretty much hence going on vacation a month ago which we are going on another vacation next week.

8am- Wake up ( Grab her out of her crib, go down stairs and change bum and then prepare breakfast *Solids*)
10am- Bottle (formula) and nap.

Her naps range anywhere from 30-1hr30 mins * Literally it's up and down depends on the day*

after her morning nap we have lunch and do things together until 3pm we do daily errands play go visit my dad go for a drive or walk we do something!

3pm Nap and Formula.

This nap here can range in the same time frame before 30mins- 1hr30 mins.

5pm we make supper..

Ususally her dad is awake he works nights so we spend time as a family until she goes to bed around 830-9.

I realise her bed time is late and its only late because she does sleep better at night if she goes to bed at 9pm if we put her to bed any earlier she is literally awake 2 hours on the dot i could set my alarm to her...

Her nights are just and up and down and thats what i hate.. like last night she woke up 1 time.. yay and only at 6am where i usually just give her a bubba and let her drink it her self in her crib and i go back to bed usually im so tired from waking up to 6 times on a bad night.. i feel like its the easy way out i have a video mointor beside my bed so i can see her/hear her.

I honestly think her waking up its because well its routine at this point and you can literally tell.. Its the same thing 2 sips of milk and then shes out again she doesnt even wake up for a full 2 mins but if i let her she crys and freaks until her "sips" I always offer her the soother first and then if she freaks my last resort is the milk.

I will be doing sleep training after this vacation ( CC) and hoping it works.

 

[Noelle610]

Her routine is shifted a bit later than most, but I don't think it's bad. I'd go with the CC for night wakings.