Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[Noelle610]

Ah, to be a baby and take three hour naps. Sounds like a good life to me!

 

[polaris]

Noelle, Thomas went through a phase of 3 hour naps when he first dropped to one nap, it was lovely! Sounds like maybe she might be close to transitioning if you can just get her through the tired/fussy time in the morning.

Well, the self-settling wasn't just a once off, she did the same thing for her second nap today. She was quite wide awake when she finished her feed and actually crawled around the bed for a bit before lying down and going to sleep herself!!! I guess it's not totally self-settling because she still needs me lying right beside her on the bed but things are definitely moving in the right direction.

 

[stephie_corin]

Ah, to be a baby and take three hour naps. Sounds like a good life to me!

Lol!! I can't remember the last time I slept for three hours uninterrupted... Sounds like a fantastic life! DH said the same thing tonight when I was talking to Cully over dinner: 'we'll finish up and then I'll cut up some fruit for you and after that a nice walk before bath time. Mummy will give you a massage and then bookies and milk and then it's bed time.' He was like, yes, sign me up for that treatment!

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks ladies, I'll try the earlier feed then. Ugh...I just hate that 4:30 feed so much. I don't think it would be so bad if he hadn't had a few days where he did actually start his day at 4:30. Now I'm always afraid it will happen again. It's also horrible for me because I don't turn the lights on or let him out of his room until 6, and I try not to smile or be very engaging...ugh, it is so boring and horrible, and of course he gets frustrated too, which I allow to happen because I don't want it to be fun for him to be up at that time. We've been doing this for months and he still doesn't consistently sleep until 6, so I've thought of stopping it and just starting the day when he's up, but I just can't feel good about letting him have too much fun at that hour.

Today he actually woke up but SS at 4:30, so I thought YESSSS!! -- but he was up at 5:15 and wouldn't go back to sleep, of course.

I think I may just wait out the 45 min waking. I don't really mind it, since I'm not in bed yet myself, and it's probably developmental/overtiredness. Might as well avoid the crying. The only problem is that it makes it impossible to go out in the evenings but I don't do much of that anyway. He wasn't waking at 45 min when we were sleep training, no. He's done it on and off at various times in his life...mostly off. I've never done anything in particular to get rid of it so I think WIO is probably going to be fine this time too.

Stephie, I'm sure that rocking him would really stimulate him...I haven't tried bringing him to bed but I don't really want to introduce that and later have to get him out of the habit...would rather just keep feeding him.

The 10 min in arms is at daycare. I think he wakes in transfer. It seems they won't let him sleep much longer than about 15 min in arms, which I'm ok with because I too feel he needs to adjust to napping in his bed. His mood has been all right despite the awful napping. It's just that, when he gets frustrated, he gets REALLY frustrated. Every little issue is a potential meltdown. You know what I mean? But generally he's happy as usual. I think it's also partly that he'd really like to be more mobile, in addition to the tiredness.

I used to try to put a time limit on how long I'd let Munchkin play after he'd refused to nap before trying again, but I usually found that the same thing would happen again and in the end he'd nap later than if I just waited. But he does have some tired cues, so if Cully doesn't I can see why you'd need a time limit!

Glad you had some dreams! I can't imagine how you've been functioning without any REM sleep, honestly!

NotNic, I hope you're getting through the day all right! Poor you and poor Finlay. Hope he's better soon!!

Polaris, this self-settling sounds really promising. I hope it continues and you do start to see a difference in her NWs. I do think it's possible for her to learn to resettle herself with slightly different conditions (like not having you in the room). Of course, if she doesn't, then you could see if she'll adjust to settling without you there, but hopefully that won't be necessary!
When was Thomas waking up before he dropped that 4:30 feed and started waking earlier? I'm so glad to have you here to share your experiences with him. Our sons really do seem so similar!

Noelle, sounds like one nap is going well at daycare really glad to hear it! IMO it seems fine to give her a catnap at home even if she's not having one at daycare, but I'm sure you know more about it than I do anyway. My experience, though, is that Munchkin is currently sleeping approximately 5x as much at home as at daycare.

Amy, congrats on the STTN and the proficient crawling!! That's a great combination! Sorry about the early waking, but glad she was in a good mood at least. I hope she takes a good nap today!

 

[seaweed eater]

Does anyone get the feeling that our babies are super smart, and read this thread daily just to mess with us?? As soon as something is going well, they change it up!

^^^ You may have discovered the true nature of the so-called BnB curse!!!

 

[polaris]

SE - as far as I can remember Thomas only went back to sleep for another hour or maybe 1.5 hours after the early a.m. feed, so he was feeding at 5 and then back to sleep until 6 or 6.30. 6 a.m. is so much easier than 5.30 to start the day though! With Thomas, bringing him into the bed in the early mornings never worked, I did try it a few times but he never even once went to sleep, he just crawled around the bed poking me in the eye and pulling my hair and trying to pull my ears off etc. Not very restful. It's so funny how different he is to Clara in that respect, she definitely falls asleep best when you are right beside her whereas for Thomas that was always too distracting/stimulating.

For anyone who is interested in my progress on the final nap transition with Thomas - he has been back napping every day for about a month now and I just accepted that he still needs the nap at the moment even if it means he is in bed late. However this week he has had two days without a nap - Wednesday we were out for the whole day and I thought he would fall asleep in the car on the way home but he didn't and by the time we got home it was just too late for him to nap, and then today I put him to bed for a nap as usual but he didn't fall asleep (very unusual for him!) and got up after about half an hour. Both days he has been fast asleep by 7.15 p.m. which I have to say is very nice! I still don't think he's ready to totally drop the nap but maybe we will start again gradually doing a couple of days without napping each week.

 

[stephie_corin]

Amy, I'm sorry you have to stop holding Chloe for naps, I know how much you enjoy it! Maybe you could try and not hold her for morning weekend naps and still keep the afternoon nap as snuggle time? I'm not sure if that would be confusing though?! I laughed at loud at your giggling baby at 5am. I'm the same. Yesterday Cully wasn't ready to nap or nurse to sleep and he kept biting me. It was so painful but then he would look up and giggle and I couldn't help but laugh, which of course just perpetuated the biting.

SE, those early morning wake ups sound so tough! If you're determined to 'wait him out' and not let him play before 6 (and you can't help him back to sleep), maybe you should take a book and night light in and read quietly in the corner until you are ready to get him up. Have you got a sleepy phrase you use like she suggests in the NCSS? Maybe building some sleep associations (lovey, sleepy phrase, sleepy music or something) might help when nursing fails to get him back down.

Regarding the meltdowns. If its any consolation, Cully has been in meltdown city for a few weeks now. He throws a proper tantrum if I try and stop him doing something he is enjoying. Even if he is relatively well rested, the potential for meltdowns is always there! I suspect it's partially the age (but overtiredness won't help of course!)

Polaris, I've been wondering about Thomas' nap! I hope the early bedtime continues for you! I'm sure it's mostly out of your control, but perhaps you could encourage the no nap days on the days you are doing bedtime by yourself - it might make things easier for you.

Gaia, how are you? Newbies? Any updates?

We had a really rough night last night. I wish his little teeth would come through. He was eating shredded cheese today (thanks SE!) and DH said 'oh wow his teeth are through!' I was so excited but it turned out to be ... Cheese.

I hope you all had great nights! X

 

[stephie_corin]

Our sleep was so bad again last night. He was awake crying every 10-15 minutes. I gave him nurofen at 130am and he slept for 1.5 hours and then was up again unable to sleep.

It feels like teething but still no teeth in sight. I'm really doubting myself now. Is he under tired/over tired? Yesterday we did 2.5 (30 minute nap) 3.5 (1.5 hour nap) 4.75 (bed) and he seemed cranky for most of the day. Is the iboprufen dose high enough? He is above 100th percentile for height and weight and the meds dosage is based on age rather than weight - I don't know if this is because under 1 year their organs aren't developed enough to handle a bigger dose?

I'm going crazy trying to figure out if there is another factor... We drink only bottled water - has he got endocrine disruption from plastics leaching into the water? Lead poisoning? Too much water/not enough water...

It really does seem like one step forward and then 50 steps backwards.

Sorry for the rant. I just wish there was something I could do.

 

[seaweed eater]

Hugs Stephie. Of course you wish there were something you could do!!! 10-15 min is just awful.

Munchkin only did that when he was sick. Even every 45 is very different from every 10-15. I wonder whether he might have food allergies or something like that. Seems more plausible than endocrine disruption...

I really don't think it's anything you're doing, or not doing. You're doing everything right.

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks SE. He does have some wheat and dairy products. I might try and cut them both out and see if it helps. He is very 'windy' at the moment so maybe it's an upset tummy xxx

 

[polaris]

Stephie, I am always wondering if there is something wrong with Clara that she can't sleep properly. I do wonder about a dairy intolerance as she seems to get very gassy especially after eating yoghurt (which she loves) and that definitely disturbs her sleep sometimes as she wakes up and cries for a moment and then passes wind and can sometimes do this several times an hour (but not for the whole night). Maybe I should try cutting out dairy from her diet and see if it makes a difference. The only thing with Clara is that she is soooo happy during the day that I find it hard to believe that there is really anything at all the matter with her. However if Cully is also cranky during the day then I would definitely be thinking along the lines of possible allergies/intolerances for 15 minute wakings. That is hard to deal with. Does he settle easily at least or does it take a while to settle him? I don't know how you are still functioning, no wonder you are feeling a bit lost, it's impossible to even think straight on that type of broken sleep.

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks Polaris, he's normally very happy during the day and has been eating dairy for a few months now. I can't think of anything new he's started eating recently. I think his crankiness in the day yesterday and today is mainly due to sleep deprivation. He's still pretty cheerful but definitely more fussy than usual. I can't understand either how he can be (normally) so happy and full of energy in the day and then sleep so badly at night.

He takes a while to settle and when I finally put him down he sleeps for ten minutes and then wakes crying again. He's so tired today he is taking his second nap now (started at 1130am). Would it be a backwards step to give him three naps today? I'm thinking of going back to three naps as our standard nap pattern but it feels like I'm doing him a disservice (9 months is too old for 3 naps right??)

I know I sound crazy - two days ago I was talking about 1 nap. I just have no idea what to do.

 

[stephie_corin]

I meant to say I am still going to try and cut out dairy for a while and see if it helps (Cully also loves yogurt!). I think it's worth a shot with Clara too - you never know, it might be the miracle solution we've been looking for!

 

[polaris]

Yeah, I totally can never understand how Clara is so cheerful and full of beans when I am barely functioning in a sleep deprived haze!

I totally know that feeling of just not having a clue what is the best thing to do, it's a horrible head space to be in. I don't think there's any harm in giving him three naps today or even going back to three naps temporarily if it seems to work for him. If it doesn't work you haven't lost anything. I don't think sleep schedules are set in stone anyway. Like if you have the wrong number of naps at the wrong age it's not a disaster. This is a bit of a change in my thinking because I used to think that standard nap schedules were almost magical and I definitely deferred to them as a greater authority than me! But that was because they just worked so well for Thomas. Clara definitely needs a more flexible approach. Anyway if something really isn't working there's no harm doing something different. I know that I am guilty of persisting for too long with schedules that clearly aren't working for Clara just because the research literature says that is the optimum schedule for her.

 

[stephie_corin]

He's just woken after 45 minutes and won't go back to sleep - will write more later! Thanks for your help Polaris, as always!! X

 

[stephie_corin]

Ok we are now just about on nap 3... He hasn't had a routine like this in months. But it's something I should have done yesterday in hindsight. I'm going to just roll with three naps for now, at least until his sleep improves at night. He's just too tired to stay awake long enough. Polaris, I definitely try to follow the guidelines too much. It's hard when things go bad not to trust the experts. Thank you again, I always appreciate your perspective.

 

[Boo44]

Hi everyone sorry to see the same names here and hope you're doing better with sleep!

Hope you don't mind me popping in now and again for advice?

Jack is 13 months and still on a 2 nap schedule. I'm wondering if I need to shift his naps around a bit, mainly as we have entered another prolonged early waking episode! Don't get me wrong, he sttn 11 hours, but magically wakes every day without fail at 6.30 when I know he can sleep until 7.30 (he often teases us by doing this for a few days in a row with no change to his schedule)

I'm like a broken record and I know that 11 hours sttn is amazing (please believe me i do know to appreciate this!) and typical for a baby and I should count my lucky stars. But just to humour me for a second - would pushing his first nap later be likely to make his first morning waking time later? He still goes down at 10ish every morning, but for instance today it was 9am! Which seems very early for a 13 month old, and I wonder if it is almost like he is using it as an extension of his night sleep. He then has another hour around 3. I'm looking to get a long nap after lunch one day, but he's tired in the morning (due to his early start!) so it seems a long way away. Most of my mummy friends are down to 1 nap now.

Would love any advice

 

[polaris]

Hi Boo, sorry I don't have any advice really, I think 6.30 a.m. is very normal for babies especially after sleeping through the night for 11 hours. I would imagine that he has simply got as much sleep as he needs at that stage. He might well start sleeping later when he drops to one nap but 13 months is still quite young to transition, despite your friends' babies. Maybe you could try moving his bedtime a bit later if you are really keen for him to sleep longer in the mornings?

Having said that I have read that the morning nap is physiologically a continuation of night sleep so maybe your idea might work. I did try pushing the morning nap later when DS was waking at 5.30 but it didn't really have much impact so far as I can remember.

 

[polaris]

Clara is not well (high temperature and generally off form) and she was impossible to get to sleep this evening. This ALWAYS happens to us just as things start to improve a little bit. She gets ill and we are back to square one again. She really doesn't tolerate illness very well and she screamed inconsolably for an hour at bedtime tonight and refused all my efforts to comfort her or help her to get to sleep.

 

[Boo44]

Thanks Polaris I do feel that reducing his naps is more my 'issue' than his early waking. I just wonder if altering the naps would result in a 'lie in' (who thought anything post 6.30 would ever be a lie in!!). I may just be unlucky to be friends with mums of similar age babies who sleep until 8am - damn them