Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[polaris]

Thanks Polaris I do feel that reducing his naps is more my 'issue' than his early waking. I just wonder if altering the naps would result in a 'lie in' (who thought anything post 6.30 would ever be a lie in!!). I may just be unlucky to be friends with mums of similar age babies who sleep until 8am - damn them

You need to find a few friends with babies who wake at 5.30! I remember when Thomas was waking at that time I would have killed for a "lie-in" until 6.30 a.m.!! Amazing how your perspective changes!

 

[Boo44]

Thanks Polaris I do feel that reducing his naps is more my 'issue' than his early waking. I just wonder if altering the naps would result in a 'lie in' (who thought anything post 6.30 would ever be a lie in!!). I may just be unlucky to be friends with mums of similar age babies who sleep until 8am - damn them

You need to find a few friends with babies who wake at 5.30! I remember when Thomas was waking at that time I would have killed for a "lie-in" until 6.30 a.m.!! Amazing how your perspective changes!

Absolutely!

 

[polaris]

Thanks Polaris I do feel that reducing his naps is more my 'issue' than his early waking. I just wonder if altering the naps would result in a 'lie in' (who thought anything post 6.30 would ever be a lie in!!). I may just be unlucky to be friends with mums of similar age babies who sleep until 8am - damn them

You need to find a few friends with babies who wake at 5.30! I remember when Thomas was waking at that time I would have killed for a "lie-in" until 6.30 a.m.!! Amazing how your perspective changes!

Absolutely!

Congratulations on your pregnancy by the way!

 

[Boo44]

Thank you!! Am feeling ok about the sleepless nights again as I think my perspective has changed... Our family is very baby-heavy at the moment, my sister-in-law has just had her third baby last wk (older ones are only 3 and 22 months!!) and she was saying he'd fed at 11pm then slept til 2.30am fed and slept til 6ish. I was like wow that's amazing for a newborn!! And I remember when I was pregnant with Jack if someone had said that I may have died of the horror

So anyway maybe I'll be more accepting this time...? Or come back to me in a few months and I'll probably be on this thread lamenting the days when I had one baby that slept until 6.30 lol!

 

[bananaz]

Thanks Polaris I do feel that reducing his naps is more my 'issue' than his early waking. I just wonder if altering the naps would result in a 'lie in' (who thought anything post 6.30 would ever be a lie in!!). I may just be unlucky to be friends with mums of similar age babies who sleep until 8am - damn them

The 8am sleepers are the atypical ones, not Jack! Most babies this age wake around 6-7am, and then of course there are the odd ones like mine that are up between 5-5:30 every morning I would kill to sleep until 6:30!

 

[bananaz]

Just a quick update - Clara properly self-settled tonight for the first time in ages! She always rolls over and puts herself to sleep after coming off the boob but she's generally half asleep at that stage already and if she can't get to sleep straight away she just gets frustrated and rolls back for more boob. But tonight she rolled away when she was still quite awake - I was sure she would roll back to feed some more but she didn't, she just wriggled around a bit and took herself off to sleep in about five minutes!

That's amazing! Go Clara

 

[seaweed eater]

Stephie I mentioned allergies mostly because another BnB friend has mentioned that her daughter had trouble sleeping for a long time because of food sensitivities. It sounds like it went on for a long time before they figured it out, so I don't think it was obvious that that's what it was. Anyway, no real evidence for that in Cully's case, of course, just something I thought of. I'm no doctor, of course, but it does seem to me that 10-15 is indicative of discomfort of some sort, not just a pure sleep thing. Maybe it really is just teething. Oh and to answer your question about dosages, the ibuprofen here, at least Advil brand, has guidelines for both weight and age -- sounds like yours does not? I think ours says to go by weight if it's known (and for 6 months+) or otherwise by age. But I could be wrong. Anyway given that C is probably about 2 age levels up based on his weight, it's possible that he's not getting enough medication. Is there a doctor you trust in your area that you could ask about that?

Polaris, I'm so so sorry to hear Clara is unwell again. You really have had to deal with a lot of illness. It's so hard to see them struggle like that. I hope she is better very soon. Hang in there and try to get some rest

Boo, sorry to say I agree with the others about Jack's mornings. Also, I'm not sure that moving the first nap later is a step on the way toward dropping a nap? Someone who has gone through the 2-1 transition should correct me if I'm wrong. But my sense is that usually they just drop the first one, and maybe the second one gets a little earlier if they can't stay awake for long enough, but not by too much. But it's not as though the second one moves later. If he's still on 2 naps and waking at 6:30, 9 seems like a fine time for his first nap.

Bananaz :wave: I hope your silence means that things are going well!! I've been wondering how you and E are doing.

AFM... we decided to start sleep training again. This was night 1. It did not go well. I'm trying to avoid the usual self-flagellation...I just want him to know that he is capable of falling asleep on his own and doesn't need to nurse immediately prior. Because I really believe he can do it! Going to stay hopeful despite how tonight went.

The plan is to nurse exactly once every time he wakes up during the night, then put down awake and no more nursing. Then start dropping feeds once that goes better. That's how we started last time, too.

 

[stephie_corin]

SE, thank you. Our iboprufen has one dose for 6-12 months and double that for 12 months +. It doesn't make sense to me unless babies younger than 12 months are particularly sensitive to the meds. DH's best friend in the UK is a paediatrician so I might ask him. I actually do think Cully has a mild dairy intolerance (although I'm not sure if its having an effect on his sleep) because when we first gave it to him he had mild eczema on his legs. But being a veggie baby already I didn't want to restrict his diet even further.

Three naps worked really well yesterday. He fell asleep at 745pm and I transferred him at 8pm ... Which is unheard of in this house. He then slept solidly until 945, fed and slept until 11ish. We then had an hour or so of the ten minute wakings but after 1245am he only woke hourly until 630am. So a BIG improvement on last night.

I think three naps lets him have a total awake time of 11.5 hours, which he can't do on 2 naps without getting really over tired. I'm not going to celebrate yet because who knows when he is going to nap today... But if he goes down for an early second nap I'll definitely stick with three naps.

Polaris, I'm so so so sorry about Clara! Do you guys go to lots of play groups? Or do you think it's just the odd weather? Thinking of you both. I hope she feels better quickly and you both get some sleep.

SE, good luck with the sleep training my friend. I'm sure Munchkin will get there. What made you decide to start again? I hope you get the same fantastic results you did last time. And I agree... There is nothing to feel bad about. You are acting out of love and concern for Munchkin. You are a wonderful mother.

Bananaz! Nice to see your name I hope sleep is going well for you guys.

Boo, you guys might find it easier to shift your own schedules earlier than to try and fight the 630am wakings. I know my boy doesn't sleep beyond 6 (630 is a huge lie in!) so we make an effort to go to bed at 10/1030pm. I actually like getting up early now. You guys could go for a family walk or some other activity in the early morning.

 

[Boo44]

SE - thanks yes I meant to push his first nap back until it becomes more like lunch time and then drop the second one completely. Am still determined to do this and see if it helps any

Stephie - since this pregnancy I've been going to bed at 10pm at the latest and still managing to be exhausted lol! But am getting plenty of sleep Me and OH just take it in turns to get up with him each day

Thanks for the tips everyone looks like the general consensus is ..... suck it up

 

[polaris]

Thanks everyone. Yes, it seems like she is always ill. She just catches absolutely everything that is going. She is ill so much more often than Thomas ever was. I think it is probably a lot to do with having an older sibling and generally having a lot more exposure to other children through that. But also she seems to get things a lot worse than Thomas does so I don't know if she just doesn't have as strong of an immune system. Like this bug, Thomas had it earlier in the week but he wasn't really very ill with it whereas she is so unwell. She also cut her 6th tooth through the gum this morning so teething is definitely making things worse. We had a truly awful night last night, she just cried on and off all night long. Sometimes crying in her sleep and sometimes properly waking and just screaming with pain and very hard to settle. She finally went to sleep properly at about 6 a.m. and slept for a solid hour and fifteen minutes before waking for the day which was the only decent stretch of sleep she had all night.

Stephie - I'm so glad you had a better night last night!

SE - So sorry you had a tough night with sleep training. I hope today will be easier and that Munchkin's sleep improves quickly.

 

[stephie_corin]

Polaris, of course! The older sibling factor. I didn't think of that. It makes sense that she would get it worse than Thomas seeing as she is younger. I'm sorry that your night was so rough. Hang in there. Sleep deprivation that bad is really tough. Thinking of you guys xxx

 

[AmyS]

Stephie - Glad you had some improvement after trying 3 naps! Waking every 10-15 minutes is brutal!

polaris - Poor Clara! Is she feeling better yet? Of course she would be teething on top of being sick too!

SE - How did the rest of your night go? I like your plan. I hope he catches on quickly for you!
____________

Well, we had a really crappy couple of nights, followed by an awesome night last night! DH asks me what I think her problem is, and I tell him to take his pick of reasons: teething, learning new skills, overtired, sleep regression, etc. I'm just going with the flow for now. If she wakes up, I give her about 15 minutes to resettle before I go in. Sometimes she will, and sometimes she won't!

She is also getting to the very clingy stage - only wants me! I do feel important, yes. She must really enjoy my loud, off-key singing.

And she is really into her crawling now! She army crawls most of the time, but she also practices the "real" crawl, but one foot drags behind right now! Very cute! I'm calling it the zombie crawl.

 

[stephie_corin]

Amy! I'm sorry you had a few crappy nights. I agree with you though... She has so much going on right now - it's no surprise that her sleep is disrupted! Cully is also going through a clingy phase and also has a bit of stranger shyness, which he's never had before. That's great she's resettling by herself some of the time!

I hope you guys don't mind a bit of a self indulgent post. We did three naps again today and its worked so well. The two main benefits are no over-tiredness (he's actually smiled at me right before falling asleep) and an additional day feed. Tonight could be rubbish of course but I'm quietly optimistic.

It's made me feel really emotional and like I failed him. I've already spoken to DH about this and he said not to worry because it's all a learning experience. I also know there is no point rehashing or stressing over past mistakes. But I just wanted to share my thoughts with you all.

I wish so badly I hadn't pushed him to 2 naps when he wasn't ready. I wanted to help his night sleep and make our schedule easier and ended up forcing him to prematurely drop to 3 day feeds and be overtired every day! It breaks my heart to think of how hungry he must have been (I always offered but he 99.9% of the time only fed when about to sleep). In hindsight, I can see how tired he was by bed time too.

If I could go back in time I would have respected his cat napping pattern and his desire to only feed when about to sleep; I wouldn't have tried to extend his naps beyond 45 minutes. I had too much power over when he slept because I could easily nurse or rock him to sleep, and I feel like I abused that power.

Where to from here? I have no idea. My confidence has taken a real blow. I've been shouting all over the forum about awake times and advising people based on our experience and I feel embarrassed now! How am I meant to know when he is ACTUALLY ready to drop a nap?! When do I increase his awake times?? I just have no clue where we are heading now.

I'm actually very happy we went back to 3 naps (in spite of the melodramatic tone of my post), I just wish I had tried this sooner! xxx

 

[Noelle610]

Stephie, big Don't be too hard on yourself. Simply put, some babies are harder to read than others - including my own. My daughter is in a never-ending transition from 2-1 naps. I logically know a lot about the science of baby sleep, but put into practice it throws the most knowledgeable person for a loop. I would say your concern over your LO's sleep actually proves what a wonderful mother you actually are. You want him to be at his best, get the optimal amount of rest and ultimately to be happy.

 

[AmyS]

Stephie - I understand feeling guilty, but don't let it get you down for too long! You are so amazing, Cully is so lucky to have you! I don't know anyone as patient as you are!

Another reason not to feel bad: babies sleep needs change so much, that it's possible to go from needing 2 naps per day to needing 3. I pm'd you our nap schedule, which is really nonexistent: 1, 2, or 3 naps a day, depending on the day and what she is getting at daycare. The only wake time I really keep track of is the time between her last nap and bedtime. I know it's hard not to have a set routine, but his nap needs might change daily.

So sweet that he was smiling at you before falling asleep! That is so much better than fighting sleep, isn't it!

I think I would stick with a flexible nap schedule through the 9 month regression, just in case that's what is causing his need for extra sleep. I think you'll be able to tell when he's ready for fewer naps - especially when he's in daycare, there will be so much stimulation, and he might drop back down to 2 on his own.

I am very optimistic for your night too! Hope it goes well!

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks Amy and thanks Noelle

The positivity and support on this thread never ceases to amaze me.

 

[seaweed eater]

Hugs Stephie!! Please don't be hard on yourself. I will echo what Noelle and Amy said. You are trying so hard to do what's best for Cully and you've shown sooo much patience. He's really lucky to have you! You've been following scientifically validated advice this whole time. Everyone says you should try to extend catnaps if you can. Most babies do drop to 2 naps by 9 months. It's not your fault that what works for most babies hasn't worked well for yours. And on top of that, he happens to have that alertness and ability to stay awake for hours and hours. He's been happy, getting a very reasonable amount of both sleep and milk. Even if it hasn't been perfectly optimal for him, you haven't done anything so wrong.

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks Amy, our night was pretty good -- up twice and no crying. I didn't get very much sleep though. My stomach is still in knots.

To be honest, I'm having a hard time acknowledging my stress about this because I feel like it's "fodder" (that word is more hostile than I mean) for people who are against sleep training to tell me that I'm doing something wrong. As hard as it is, I still think it's the right thing.

 

[AmyS]

Thanks Amy, our night was pretty good -- up twice and no crying. I didn't get very much sleep though. My stomach is still in knots.

To be honest, I'm having a hard time acknowledging my stress about this because I feel like it's "fodder" (that word is more hostile than I mean) for people who are against sleep training to tell me that I'm doing something wrong. As hard as it is, I still think it's the right thing.

I understand what you're saying - but you aren't going to get any judgment here!

I'm so glad your night went so well! Yay Munchkin! I hope this helps with daycare naps also - you'll have to let us know!

 

[stephie_corin]

Thank you for your kind words SE.

I'm sorry you feel like anyone would judge you for sleep training. Parenting is such an emotional journey and all we can hope is that we do our best. You had such great results before - and you are having great results already this time around - be proud in your decision; it's clearly in Munchkin's best interests. Huge hugs. I hope you get some more sleep my dear friend xxx