Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[stephie_corin]

Oh sorry just saw it was a milk blister - glad to hear

 

[seaweed eater]

2 naps today, now it's 9:40 and he's awake and showing no signs of slowing down...

 

[bababas]

lysh - man 4 am thats tough!

gaiagirl - hope you feel better now.

SE - mmm havent read the other posts, have you tried only one nap already?

 

[bababas]

update here gonna post and take a nap

8:30pm down
9:30pm wanted breast for one minute continued sleeping
11:30pm BF, prolly woke him, i crawled into bed just lied down, then he rolled over to me so he totally sticked on me and continued sleeping for one hour. i was stiff as a board.
0:30 or 1:30 or both dont remember BF
3:00 BF

he woke up 6am which is very RARE! i tried to continue sleeping. managed to make him sleep 10mins... we went out of bed 7:20


so .... HELP.... he woke from his last nap 5:10pm is that too late? my book says he should be awake 4-4.5hrs before bed time? he doesnt seem that sleepy at bedtime but falls asleep anyway when breastfed. so i wonder if i should have him 4-4.5hrs. he only slept 2 naps yesterday. but the first was very late. he refused to fall asleep. so maybe that fckd the whole day up. i dont know.

or should i try 2.5hr between naps. or 2.5 then 3? aaaa this transition is making me stupid and all so difficult coz today he woke 6. and usually he wakes 8. then 2 naps fit. but if he wakes 8 the first nap is hard after 2.5hrs.

 

[bababas]

ps he got 2 teeth since i was away. i think some other is coming. just cant see it.

 

[stephie_corin]

SE - oh no! That is how our evenings have been shaping up! I hope he falls asleep soon for you! Did you encourage the two naps or was he tired?

Detterose - the front teeth were agony for us, I hope Hunter's come through soon. Things will definitely get better but it might be a few months still before things improve. Cully is still waking 10-100 times a night but there are definite glimmers of hope.

Lysh - happy birthday for tomorrow! I'm sorry you didn't make the movies. It's hard when plans get cancelled because of poor sleep hopefully your actual birthday is wonderful and you are spoilt with a lovely long nap and a good night of sleep!

Bababas! Glad to have you back! One thing this whole sleep debacle has taught me is that it's well worth experimenting with different wake times and seeing how this affects sleep. If you are switching to 2 naps I'd try to stretch the first awake time as long as possible before be gets cranky. It is difficult when the morning waketime changes... Do you have a preferred bedtime for him? I'd work backwards from there using a 2-3-4 routine as a base (or 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 etc., whatever wake times suit him best) and possibly try waking him at a similar time if he sleeps late to try and establish a routine?

Polaris - it's almost Clara's birthday I see! Are you guys doing anything special? We keep changing our minds about whether to throw a party.

Amy - how are naps for you guys?

Gaia - hope you are feeling all better!!

Well, Mr 'three nap' Cully took one nap today. He woke at 6 and wouldn't fall asleep until 11am. He slept until close to 1pm and I tried to nap him every 30 minutes between 3.30-5 but he wasn't interested. He finally showed sleepy signs at 530 but rather than nap at that time I did a quick bath and he fell asleep at 6.15pm.

I'm nervous about what tonight will bring and whether he will wake up really really early. Do you think I did the right thing? Should I have napped him at 530pm? I have to say, honestly, it's the easiest bedtime we've had for ages. No rocking, just feed and sleep. I can't help but feel I'm doing the wrong thing because he isn't 'meant' to take one nap for at least a few months.

We are still very much GWTF so I'm sure tomorrow will be different!

Oh, I do have a positive update; I managed to feed him lying down a few times last night and he fell asleep!!! No rocking or picking up!

Edit - he just woke after 15 minutes crying so I gently rocked him back to sleep. Over-tiredness probably...

Edit again - he keeps waking and crying when I try to put him down. We've danced this dance before! I'm guessing he'll be transferred by 7pm.

 

[bababas]

sorry stephie, hope he will finally fall asleep.

well today is a 3 nap day since he woke up 1ishpm from his 2nd nap. so he is in his 3rd nap now. he will prolly wake around 4pm so i can try the 4hrs awake time.

we had this problem... well he wouldnt BF during my OH and ds1 sumer vacation so i had to go to our room with him. where he got used to sleeping on the boob. so today i tried to get rid of that. he was a good boy. took the breast on the lazy boy. then i rocked him a bit with the pacifier and then placed him in his bed. i was quiet amazed, thought he would go bananas.

 

[AmyS]

Gaia - Hope your feeling better now!

bababas - I remember wonder week 26 - it was not a fun time! I usually try to have the last nap end at 4pm or 4:30pm. Sometimes that doesn't work if she had crap naps for the day, but if she goes any later, then it messes with bedtime! One schedule to try that has worked for many is 2/3/4 between naps. That really never worked for us, but it's a place to start! (And now I just scrolled down a little and see Stephie suggest the same! I always do that, haha!)

SE - What time did he finally get to bed last night?? That's late! Sounds like switching to one nap is another horrible time to look forward to! Yippee! Is he still only doing 1 nap at daycare?

Stephie - Regarding your one nap day: that's what usually happens with us when she naps too early or not enough at daycare. I would have done the same thing - early bedtime rather than late nap, though I have let her nap from 5-5:30 before. It will be interesting to see how the rest of your night goes!
_____________

Not sure if I already said this, but naps at daycare on Friday were a lot better! Not very long, but she did sleep in her crib twice. They said she cried/fussed for about 5-10 minutes the first nap, and less than 5 minutes for the second nap. Progress!

At home, she ended up taking a couple of naps in her stroller - once because I ruined her first nap by coughing, and then the next day she wouldn't fall asleep on the bottle, so we went for a long walk! I did get her down in her crib once, and she woke up and settled back down pretty quickly, but then she woke up completely about 2 minutes later! I'm sure daycare will be a challenge again today since she was home for the weekend, but you never know!

 

[gaiagirl]

SE - ohhhhh I have soooo been there. I always end up PIO (playing it out ) because I get too frustrated otherwise. Hope he fell asleep soon after!

Bababas - I agree with Stephie, think of what bedtime you would like and work backwards. I like my LO in bed about 7:30, so I try to make sure he is awake from his second nap by 3/3:30. First nap is usually 2-2.5 hours after waking and then second nap is 3.5 hours after that. To be honest, 4.5 hours awake before bed seems long for a 6 month old, but if he seems fine with that then go for it!

Amy - That's great about the naps, hopefully she figures out how to start napping well at daycare and this whole chapter is behind you!

Stephie - we had a one nap day yesterday too, it happens often if I can get F to sleep in on weekends. He slept until 8 on Sunday so by 10:30 was not willing to nap and I just pushed it to 12:30 and he did 2 hours. Then bed at 7. Worked out just fine, but normally he DEFINITELY still needs 2. Just some random days he doesn't.

AFM - feeling better for sure, still a bit sore and tender from all the manhandling lol. But otherwise fine.

DH and I woke up several times last night to find F all over the bed. He was up at the top, then snuggled up to DH, then at one point head down near DHs knees...I'm not liking this new habit of moving constantly in his sleep. Not only do we get crappy sleep but I worry its not safe...not sure what to do. I guess keeping him between me and the bedrail might be best. And maybe we have no choice but to lower our mattress for the time being.

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks Gaia, thanks Amy! I'm reassured that you guys have one nap days too... I guess my concern comes from the fact this seems to be a trend over the last week (late am nap and a cat nap in the late pm) even under ideal napping conditions. I guess it is what it is, and if he does drop to one nap by himself then it's not a big deal

Amy, I'm so glad she took some naps at daycare! That's definite progress! I hope this week goes well!

Gaia, wonderful news that you are feeling better. Sorry that you guys are thinking of putting your bed on the floor - I know you weren't keen to do that. It definitely sounds like the sensible option though, what with his bed gymnastics!

 

[seaweed eater]

Whew, finally a few moments to myself! Prior to today we had one daycare day out of the last 10. So exhausting, and that was with another adult around most of the time. Lots of hugs to you SAHMs

Polaris, I'm so sorry you are having awful sleep again man, with the self-settling I really thought you were going to start seeing some longer stretches. Glad to hear WIO is suiting you well though. And glad you are having a longer first stretch! Hope that continues!!

Amy, I'm glad Chloe did better at daycare last week. Two naps in her crib with 5-10 min of fussing sounds REALLY good. Please let us know how today goes. Sorry to hear about the gasping noise, Munchkin has a few funny noises of his own. Babies are silly!

Gaia, hope your milk blister's better today! Sorry it looks like teething again hang in there!

Lysh, happy birthday!! Glad WIO is working well for you, I think it's helpful to realize when CC/CIO is no longer an option you are willing to take. I'm sorry about the tiring night and the early waking. That 4 AM is really tough, so tiring and also so tricky to get rid of! I think you are right to nip it in the bud, really. I hope it goes away for good!!

Stephie, so glad that tooth is finally out, hope the other one follows tomorrow!!! And that much better sleep is on its way. Hope he has settled since your last update and you get a longer stretch tonight.

Detterose, I hope last night went better 8 wakings a night is really tough, hope you are able to get some rest during the day. I hope your OH is better, too, and none of you have caught the cold. There's a lot going around where I live at the moment, and this time we collectively seem to have caught all of it.

Bababas, I hope Ivar does well with his transition in nursery hope you and Aron find something fun to do outside the house! Boo to the 3-2 nap transition though, I know you've been dreading it and I'm sorry it's finally here. I hope it goes more easily than you fear. I hope the nights improve too. It seems that finishing the transition to 2 naps goes along with better nights for some people. I hope that's you guys! What did you end up doing about the late nap? In the future I would wake him early if he needs to nap that late so that he can go down at his usual bedtime, but if he already finished the nap I'd put him down as soon as he seems sleepy even if it's later than usual.

Regarding whether to try the bottle, I don't think it would hurt to try it for a week. I do think you'd have to be careful if you want to also keep BF an option. You don't want to encourage him to refuse the bottle by teaching him that if he just keeps complaining he will eventually get to nurse. Know what I mean? So i think if you try the bottle it will be important to find some other way to calm him before you let him nurse, so that he doesn't think the crying is what got you to nurse him.

AFU -- we are kind of back to WIO/GWTF mode... I really hate that we keep switching. I don't want it to be confusing for Munchkin but I'm trying to be responsive. His sleep varies so much and seems so sensitive. He will sleep perfectly for a couple weeks and then all of a sudden starts screaming at bedtime and waking up 4x a night again. I just can't bring myself to continue ST in those situations, but the result is that we end up flip-flopping and that doesn't seem good either! I really don't know what to do!!

Thurs and Fri: pretty good days, 2 naps with short first nap, not that tired going down for either one, a little trouble at bedtime but ok through the night.

Saturday: refused his morning nap, so he had only one nap. It seemed to go well. He went down very easily at 12:30 and slept until 2:15. Then I tried for a 6:45-7 bedtime, but he ended up asleep at 9:15. So I figured he'd gotten overtired and the one nap was a bad idea.

Sunday: up at 5:15 very short first nap, fought his second nap so eventually I took him in the car. He didn't wake up on his own so I woke him at 3:15. Put him down at 7:30 with great effort, and he slept for 8 whole minutes and then was awake until just after 10. He could easily have gone for longer.

I feel like walking is the new teething in our house, but I really think it's walking. He's sooooo close. And he just seems very, very, very EXCITED. In general he's gone through an enormous developmental spurt the past few weeks so I can't say I blame him.

Last night after I gave up on trying to force him back to sleep and let him play, he literally ran in circles around the house holding one of my hands and roaring (favorite new animal sound). I had to laugh.

I'm really feeling lost as to what my approach should be to his sleep. ST has been so helpful to him at some times but so horribly wrong at other times. DH pointed out yesterday that it doesn't really seem like a self-settling problem anymore, because he goes to sleep effortlessly and stays asleep well when he's tired. It's just that sometimes he doesn't WANT to sleep and it's basically impossible to force him. But then he doesn't get the sleep he needs. Last night + today will probably end up being around 9 hours total. That is really not good. But as DH said, if it really is developmental, it may go away on its own? And either way there doesn't seem to be much we can do.

 

[stephie_corin]

SE, I agree with your DH 100%! I would totally WIO in the circumstances and I think if you keep paying attention to Munchkin's cues his sleep should sort itself out. And for what it's worth, almost every mum I have spoken to says that walking improves night sleep. I'd maybe stick to one nap if you can - a regular routine might help him sleep better.

Congratulations to you guys on the almost walking

 

[AmyS]

Last night after I gave up on trying to force him back to sleep and let him play, he literally ran in circles around the house holding one of my hands and roaring (favorite new animal sound). I had to laugh.

I'm really feeling lost as to what my approach should be to his sleep. ST has been so helpful to him at some times but so horribly wrong at other times. DH pointed out yesterday that it doesn't really seem like a self-settling problem anymore, because he goes to sleep effortlessly and stays asleep well when he's tired. It's just that sometimes he doesn't WANT to sleep and it's basically impossible to force him. But then he doesn't get the sleep he needs. Last night + today will probably end up being around 9 hours total. That is really not good. But as DH said, if it really is developmental, it may go away on its own? And either way there doesn't seem to be much we can do.

That is SO CUTE!!! Roaring!! I love it!!

This is my opinion on the approach - you and your hubby agree that he knows how to self settle, so your sleep training has taught him that. I honestly don't think that he will forget that in the midst of what's going on now. Especially if you give him opportunity to ss during the night when/if he wakes up. It really does sound developmental to me! He is learning so much, so quickly! I think the WIO approach applies here - he will pass this phase soon, and then you can get back to normal.

To me, it doesn't sound like you're back to square one at all! And, I don't think that going back and forth between sleep training and wio is bad either. As we all know, sleep changes so much for them - I think that as parents, we need to be flexible. I have thought many times that I might be regressing with Chloe when she is going through difficult times developmentally, but she proves me wrong every time! When things calm down, she is back to what is normal for us now.

I am always so impressed by how you've taught Munchkin - I think you're doing a fabulous job!

 

[seaweed eater]

Thank you both! It's just so important to me to be consistent -- I hate the thought that the unpredictability might be scary to him. But neither of the consistent alternatives really seems good.

And Stephie, lesson learned, definitely will be doing one nap from now on!

 

[polaris]

I'm really hopeful that walking is going to have a positive impact on our nighttime sleep!! No improvement yet but maybe we are still in the disrupted sleep phase? Clara is definitely a toddler now, she is walking more and more each day - I went out and got her her first proper pair of shoes on Saturday. Can't believe she is getting so grown up.

SE - Clara totally gets like Munchkin with developmental milestones, I just go with it and let her get up/stay up to practice her skills when it seems necessary. I personally think it's more important to be responsive than consistent. I know obviously consistency is important but flexibility is equally important. Consistency without flexibility could easily become way too authoritarian in my opinion. So I think your approach is spot on.

 

[bababas]

SE i also agree with you DH. and congrats with the walking coming along. hope it will come to you that the walking will improve the sleeping.

so for tonight I gave Aron his first night bottle. it was no problem, then pacifier, laid him down in his bed and then he slept i dont believe it. hope he wont wake up for boobie after one hour coz i wrote that here. im sleepy lol.

 

[bababas]

I agree with polaris.

and congratulations on the new shoes!

 

[NotNic]

Hi everyone. Trying to keep up with you all but I'm a little out of the loop. Please forgive me. It's nice to hear how many of you are WIO / GWTF though. I thought I was the sleep training rebel, but there seems to be a secret, undercover group! Don't get me wrong. I completely believe that CIO/CC works for many, and I'd be happy to let Finlay cry if we needed to, but for us it always felt too drastic an approach for his problems. Also I'm a bit too lazy and really not that good at doing set routines based on the time of day. I would be a failure at sleep training!! I can't even sleep through myself!!

Seaweed - it sounds like munchkin has Finlay traits. We used to do wear out time on the days hed be too wired, but we would give him just one or two boring toys to play with and encourage him to cruise and crawl. If he's good at ss, then perhaps you could try what we do. We have an 8pm cap on bedtime (when we're home). He can play and clamber about but by 8pm he needs to be in his cot. He has teddies, soft cubes and a hardback book in his cot and I normally let him take a toy with him if he wants. Tonight he has a truck but normally he wants his toothbrush! We then lay him down say goodnight and leave him to it. Sometimes he goes straight asleep but often he'll play and chat quietly to himself until he's ready to sleep.

Just a quick update for us: F's sleep has been pretty good at the moment. We have pretty much transitioned to just one nap a day now. As a result he tends to be ready for bed at 7.30 and is managing to sleep until 6.30am. A few 5.30s still sneak in to keep us on our toes, but so are a few past 7am to balance it out! He's got an extra 3 teeth over a weekend, so now had an extra 6 teeth in 5 weeks including 4 molars and 1 eye tooth. AND he's walking - phew! I need a lie down just thinking about it!!!

 

[gaiagirl]

Not Nic - that's great news, sounds like everything is going wonderfully!

SE - I agree with everyone, especially what Polaris said about flexibility. I think that being consistent in responding to Munchkins needs is consistent enough! You are doing an amazing job Don't worry about not enforcing rules, especially when there is a limited ability to communicate with them...when you can have a conversation I think it will be SO much easier to put your foot down on bedtime.

 

[bababas]

so Aron got a bottle (first bottle) before sleep.

but we had a bad night. i wonder if it is coz i sleep near him or co sleep

bed 8:30pm
BF 10:ishpm
BF 11:30pm
then again again, so i stopped counting, prolly 6 times by 3am

then he woke up again, but this time i just changed his diaper and went to the bathroom. he continued to sleep, fell asleep by himself for another hour then boobie again.

dont remember much, maybe 2 more BF then woke up 800am.



i wonder if it was coz i went early to bed. and he was disturbed. or it is just the 26WW.

or, well yesterday i only fed him downstairs. (he got used to feed on the bed, coz OH and ds1 were in vacation for 1 month, and he just wouldnt drink otherwise) so yesterday he was not much interested in BF, neither BF in bed. like he just wanted/was more interested in the world, maybe thats why he drank so much at night.... any idea?