Polaris, I'm glad there has been a little improvement with C's sleep, and that you're in a regular routine -- that always helps me feel like things are more under control. And so glad the audiobooks are helping!!
Sorry about the every 20 minutes still though. That is so rough and you deserve a medal for doing it night after night AND being a wonderful parent to two all day. Hope Monday goes well
transitions are tough but, as you already know, with some time you get through it, and often you get closer and see new interesting sides of each other in the process.
Lysh, congrats on surviving your first day!
I'm glad you get a slow start back. Glad the night was ok but sorry you were awake so early. That happens to me too sometimes since Munchkin tends to have a NW in the early morning. What if you don't look at the clock unless LO is awake? Do you think that would help?
NotNic, Polaris, and Lysh - yeah, it's funny about the walking. Munchkin is starting very gradually, which I knew to expect by now since that's how he seems to pick up all of his skills. He's been able to take a few wobbly steps for a couple months, and took his first real independent steps about a month ago! He still likes to hold my hand when he can, but he's voluntarily walking across the room by himself now. I think it will be a gradual process of starting to use it instead of crawling more and more of the time. Must be so funny to have one of those babies who "just takes off"!
Stephie, sooo sorry about your MOTNs
three hours is really too much. I still can't believe you rock him that whole time. I think it's good that you are not letting him get up and play, but how exhausting! Might as well try more awake time. I hope it works for you guys. He will be walking in no time!
Kosh, not me, sorry. I think some of the babies from the original group are getting close to 18 months though (and some maybe over 18 -- I joined late so I don't know everyone who was here). Maybe have a look through the earlier pages and try some PMs? The toddler section might have more help, too.
Amy, what about just giving C her bottle earlier in the routine, not cutting it out altogether? Do you think she would not take as much? I understand not feeling in a hurry about it though. And I don't think it's delusional to expect it to be easy once she's ready, because it seems like that's been the pattern with her so far. Either way, personally my feeling is that it's ok if she thinks you're a mean mommy sometimes! Sometimes meeting their needs means we can't give them everything they want...I'm sure we'll all be facing this situation more often into the toddler years!
AFU - hold onto your hats, because this is going to be a novel!
First an update. Bedtime last night was just awful. Not in the usual way, either. LO calmed down relatively quickly (I mean, he did complain for several minutes, but not for too long) but then he spent TWO HOURS trying to fall asleep sitting up.
It was so frustrating for me and must have been a million times more so for him! I actually left his room and let DH handle it after an hour and a half. My patience was wearing thin and I needed to pump. He even fell down two or three times but then popped right back up!! Eventually he fell asleep sitting up and DH moved him.
He slept until 6:05 and then went back to sleep until 7:15.
It's probably because he went to sleep so late (close to 10) but it was still very weird!
He has also fallen asleep in my arms three times in the past 2 days, which is completely unlike him. But very sweet! But bizarre. I mean crawling up to me and falling asleep in my arms while we're just playing on the floor -- not when I'm trying to hold him and rock him or anything. It seems like it must be linked to not nursing somehow, like he needs to learn a different way of being comforted.
Now about the sleep consultant -
DH and I decided to go ahead, and we had our consultation today. Let me give a little more background first. Part of the reason we decided to do it is that we found this particular consultant. Based on her association with a particular parenting style (RIE) I felt pretty certain that we would be well aligned on basic values and fundamentals. My sense is that most sleep consultants just tell you to CIO, and I have no interest in that. Also, I've felt like my approach to sleep falls somewhere between strict sleep training and WIO -- I want to be responsive but also have firm boundaries -- and I've struggled with the balance, especially when I don't know many other parents who have a similar perspective, so I thought it would be interesting to hear from an "expert" in that approach.
She offers a few different plans, but what we had was a single 1-hour consultation session. She sent us a questionnaire in advance (e.g., daily schedule, where does baby sleep, do you have a bedtime routine etc) and then formulated a plan for us based on that and went through it during the session. She will also send articles and worksheets on what we talked about. We can purchase follow-up support calls separately if we need to.
We're going to have one more night of doing what we've been doing, and then make some changes starting tomorrow night:
- I'm not going to stay in the room anymore. If he's getting really upset I will go in and sit with him, possibly pick him up, and offer reassurance (not milk), but never take him outside the room and always leave while he's awake. Basically this means finishing off the gradual retreat plan, since I never did finish it!
- No milk from bedtime until 6 AM
- Try putting him down earlier (I am skeptical, but I'll give it a try)...look for "soft signs of sleep" such as staring into space and looking peaceful and contemplative, which come before eye rubbing (which is the first one we usually look for). The only reason I think this might ever work is that she said that if you miss the window, it takes 90 minutes for them to be ready to sleep again, which certainly seems consistent with my experience.
She also really emphasized talking about the whole thing a lot with him...not just while it's going on (which I've already been doing a lot of -- e.g. "I see that you are very frustrated right now as you're trying to go to sleep. I'm sorry it is tough tonight. I'm here and I love you.") but also before and after. So, telling him beforehand, repeatedly and in detail, what's going to change and what's going to happen instead; and debriefing in the morning, to help him process it and also so he knows (to the extent he can understand the language, of course) that I really was listening to him from outside. I haven't experimented very much with this kind of thing so I'm interested to see whether it will make a difference.
She also said the sitting up stuff is just developmental and we have to wait for it to pass on its own, which is kind of what I thought...oh well
Was that "blow by blow" enough for you, Polaris?
Let me know if any of you have other questions. I'm apprehensive but excited about giving it a try, because I really do think he is ready for me to not be in the room anymore, especially after last night.
He always practices everything in his sleep. He claps and waves in his sleep and nursery have caught him dancing during nap time when he definitely is asleep! 
I'm sorry Clara is still sleeping so badly. Feeding him immediately is different to what I had been trying. I usually only feed him if he is rooting around. Normally I try and jiggle him lying down or sit up and rock him (and rock him and rock him). This last few days I've been feeding him as soon as he stirs and he settles so much quicker (except during the MOTN parties). I know it's not hunger at the other times because he latches for a minute then falls asleep. I don't know which is better long term to be honest. I feel your frustration about day sleep vs night sleep. Cully has been asleep for 1.5 hours and only fed back to sleep once after 20 minutes. He goes down so easily for his nap too. I don't know why night time is so difficult for these two. Oh, and we are also getting a good 2-3 hour sleep in the early evening! 
