Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[lysh]

SE- Thanks for sharing all of that information! I wish you luck with the changes.I am curious how putting him down earlier will help.....we are still working on putting DD down earlier...tonight was the earliest. Thank you for the suggestion...this mornign I tried not looking at the clock when I woke up, but I still could not go back to sleep. I just was lying there wondering what the time was and still waiting for her cry!!!! lol

Polaris- I sometimes find that when we have guests over or there is something new and extra stimulating going on that it effects my LOs sleep. That could have been the cause of the MOTN party- some babies are just extra sensitive! It is sometimes hard/confusing in deciding how to handle sleep issues. I have gone back and forth on so many things this past year. We did do some sleep training before I went back to work, but as far as the other issues (nursing to sleep, early wake-ups, nap issues) I am kind of in the WIO stage.

Stephie- Good for you for keeping a positive attitude most of the time. I think being despondent every now and then is normal...especially when so tired all of the time!

Well, dd had a late nap yesterday and was hard to put down...did not get her down until 9. She stayed in bed until almost 6 though! I, of course, woke up again. Did not look at the time, but still was anxiously waiting for the cry. Today was more of a normal day and we had her in her crib by 7:40...earliest time yet, so we shall see!!!!!

 

[seaweed eater]

First bedtime done...he actually cried less than the past few nights, but he did poop. I'm a little bummed about the poop but at least there was no vomit, and it's no better or worse than that, right?

He cried for 15 mins at first and then probably another 5 min or so altogether...lots of silence...all in all he was asleep (lying down!!) ~35-40 minutes after I'd put him down, including the diaper change. I went in three times and picked him up each time.

We had 4 pretty long conversations about it beforehand, including two "walk throughs" where I told him in detail how the routine was going to go and what the changes were going to be, and pointed to where I used to sit on his floor and said that I wouldn't be sitting there anymore but instead would be outside listening, etc.

He actually STTN last night so hopefully tonight won't be too rough in terms of any NWs. It probably will be, though, cause that's how these things go.

As usual, I fear the secret scorn of all you saintly WIOers...going to take some deep breaths and eat a bowl of oatmeal!

 

[gaiagirl]

Hey guys! Just checking in!

SE - interesting to read her input! Glad it was better, no scorn from me! I am no saint, lol. Sleep is hard, so hard. You do what you gotta do. I really hope this new approach works because I know how hard you've been working on his bedtimes. You deserve a happy ending!

We are currently on vacation with my parents. Fun, except how long the drive was to get here ugh. Why does my kid refuse to just peacefully drift off to sleep in his carseat like other babies!?!? So ridiculous.

Also, my parents don't outright say they think I'm insane...but they do. So a whole long weekend of judgement over our sleep arrangements and how much support F needs with sleep is a bit tiring. Sighhhh.

I will say though, I'm sure glad I nurse to sleep and bedshare because I can pretty much guarantee he would not be sleeping this whole trip otherwise! Lol. It's been so disruptive but to him, wherever I am, is fine. Phew!

Lysh I HATE that sleeplessness waiting for baby to wake up. It sucks!

Stephie, three hours!?!?!? That's a crazy motn party. Have we talked before about first and second sleep? How many humans used to sleep in two chunks with a 2-3 hour awake period between? Honestly sometimes F is just up and happy to be up for 1-2 hours and I try to discourage but really, it's not that uncommon in human history so kinda interesting.

Anyways, I'm still reading often just not always chiming in!

 

[polaris]

SE, I am sooo so not secretly scornful, honestly I am a bit jealous of your resolve! If I thought Clara would respond quickly and (reasonably) easily to sleep training I really think I would be doing it. I just honestly don't feel that I can do it again after the lack of lasting success from our last traumatic experience, which involved pretty much a full night of crying on the first night - and a lot of crying on subsequent nights too.

Lysh, my older boy was always affected by new stuff, he is definitely highly sensitive. I always think Clara takes it all in her stride because she doesn't seem phased by anything when she's awake, but maybe you have a point. Sorry that you are still having early wakings even though LO is sleeping later!

Amy, I'm so interested in hearing about your progress in moving gradually away from feeding to sleep. Good luck, I hope it goes well.

Our night wasn't great, I think her teeth were bothering her again. I should have given pain relief really but I was too tired to get it together. She self-settled at bedtime so as always I was hopeful for a good night but no such luck.

 

[stephie_corin]

Lysh, I can't wait to hear how she slept with the earlier bedtime. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you! Thanks so much for the support. Sometimes it's hard to stay positive and I love this little group of sleep deprived mammas for those tough times.

SE, that sounds like amazing progress. Usually your first night of a new routine is the worst, so hopefully things will just get better and better for you! I don't need to say that there is no scorn from me - you know that already.

Gaia, I hope you're having a wonderful vacation! Cully also refuses to sleep in the car. I fear and avoid long car trips like the plague. It's a shame about your parents but you aren't alone there. I think their generation just did things very differently than what is now considered an acceptable (at least in some circles!) approach to sleep. I've read a bit about segmented sleep and it's so interesting... But sadly for Cully I'm not prepared to chill with him at midnight. I'm too tired! He'd probably be really happy if we just let him cruise around but DH and I are both nervous it will become an every night occurrence.

Polaris, I often forget to give pain relief too. It's hard when you're so tired and you're just focused on getting them back to sleep. Good luck to your gorgeous boy tomorrow! I hope you and Clara have a lovely time together and don't miss him too much. I bet he has a blast!

So, we had no MOTN party last night. He was waking every 20 minutes until around 1030pm when I gave him nurofen. He's teething (I think) but we can't see any new teeth cutting through. He's got the little bumps on his front gum so I guess they might make an appearance soon. Did I mention I hate teething? Lol. The upside is he slept 1-1.5 hour stretches all night and then I got him back to sleep at 6am and he slept until 650am!

Can I talk nap transitions? I'm sure now I've said this he will go back to two naps but I really believe we are in the middle of the one nap transition ... But in fast forward mode. I find it bizarre that only a month and a half ago I was feeling guilty because he wanted to take 3 naps and now we are at one nap. But here we are and he has happily stayed awake 5 hours before his nap these last two days. He's gone from fighting me putting him down (and trust me, I've nursed, rocked, bounced) but clearly needing a nap (tired and cranky morning and night), to happily staying awake 4 and now 5 hours in the space of a few weeks. This morning I feel like he could have stayed up even longer, but maybe that was the extra sleep he got after 6am.

I'm feeling more positive about daycare now and that he will be able to last until 1230 by the time he is 12 months old. I hope my confidence isn't misplaced! If it is, we've got a plan but it would be nice if the daycare transition went smoothly.

I feel it's a little crazy that my ten month old only wants one nap. It's not like circumstances have dictated his sleep schedule and he has to stay awake that long. He's just not interested in taking a morning nap.

 

[lysh]

SE- No scorn!!! I did some sleep training in the past before going back to work. She was 4 1/2 months (many people would have my head for that). We needed her in her crib. Not sure if that is sleep training, but we did CC to get her to stay in her crib. When she was a little older, we then did CC to spread out feedings to 2 1/2 hour stretches because I honestly could not function at home/work. Even 2 1/2 hour stretches were rough!! If she does not naturally stop nursing to sleep, at some point we might have to revisit some sort of training. However, since that will be the last nursing we will eliminate, we have some time.

Gaia- I dread long car trips (anything past 20 minutes) for the same reason. My dd hated the carseat from the beginning. The minute we left the hospital, she screamed the entire way home and that continued! She is finally getting better and occasionally has fallen asleep with minimal crying, but depends on her mood.

Polaris- Hopefully this teething will calm down soon!!!

Stephie- I say feel it out with the one nap- some babies just do not follow what the 'experts' say is best!!!

Last night was great! She only napped for 1 1/2 hours- she slept from 11 to 12:30. We started her bedtime routine at 7 and she was asleep by 7:45 (earliest yet). She slept until 5:45- 10 hours!! That is huge for her. Today we are going to my BILs house during naptime, so we will see how this will affect her. Plus it is an hour drive to get there......she is not a fan of car rides!

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks guys sorry to be fishing for reassurance...just keeping it real!

The rest of the night went well. He woke up once and fussed on and off for about 20 minutes, then started crying so I went in and gave him a hug and some water, and he went back to sleep. Up at 6:10!

Nap was tougher. After about 35 minutes (and a couple checks) I went in and stayed until he fell asleep. It just seemed like too much...and I know that taking on nights and naps at the same time is a lot anyway. Better luck next time

Polaris, really sorry about your MOTN and possible teething. I'm glad C wasn't upset during the MOTN at least. I still think the self-settling progress is going to pay off. Someday she WILL be sleeping through the night in her own bed, and however she makes that transition, I think it will be easier as a result of the skills she's building now.
Will be thinking of you and Thomas tomorrow! Best of luck

Stephie, I'm sorry you have been feeling down. I find it goes in cycles...and sometimes it helps to just acknowledge that it does, and that you'll likely feel better about things again. Does that help you at all, or is it just me?

I think you can trust your intuition about the naps, as crazy as it might feel. I kept reminding myself of that during the long painful 3-2 transition...I know I didn't just make this whole thing up! Also FWIW, Munchkin's napping pattern has definitely shifted, and he still gets tired in the mornings. He has that 5-min nap on the way to daycare, and we've been replicating that on weekends because I don't think he can make it through without it. (But if he took a full nap, he would refuse his second one.) So I think if Cully is happy and seems to be doing well, you are in even better shape! And it doesn't sound like he is having way too much total WT or anything like that.

Regarding the crawling off the bed discussion, our mattress is on the ground too, and of course Munchkin visits during the day even though he doesn't sleep there. He has a couple ways of getting off, one of which is to start headfirst, get his hands down, and then sort of turn sideways and swing his legs around. It's clever! The other way is more cautious: he sits up and shuffles to the edge and then eases himself down on his bottom. We do have carpet so that probably helped us feel better about letting him practice -- there have been plenty of minor spills. Foam alphabet tiles sound like a great idea.

Lysh, I'm sorry you had trouble sleeping again Friday night it really is tough when you know you're on call, and it's such a pain to wake up after only sleeping a few minutes. Hopefully she will keep staying in bed later and your body will get used to it. I'm so glad to hear the earlier night went well!! Hope today goes well with the drive and everything.

Gaia, I'm sorry about the judgment from your parents. I completely empathize. My parents are very pro sleep training, and TBH I don't think any of us had the sleep challenges that Munchkin does! There have been plenty of times when they've said something snide or looked at me like I'm crazy for what I do to accommodate him. You really can't please everyone! I'm sorry about the car rides, too...it's really convenient to be able to plan long drives around naps.

Hope everyone else is having a good weekend

 

[AmyS]

SE - Thanks for all the details on your progress! You already know you're getting no judgment from me either!

 

[seaweed eater]

How is everyone doing today?

Night 2 was about the same as night 1. Bedtime, 20 mins of crying (I went in twice) then asleep. Awake around 3, drank a little water then back to sleep. The difference is that this morning he was up at 5:10...I went in a few times but he wasn't going back to sleep. I think he was hungry. I made it to about 5:50 before taking him out and giving him milk. Close enough to 6 for today.

He also clearly understands more about what's going on than the previous times we've done any kind of sleep training, which is tough he started getting a bit upset during the bedtime routine. I hope that goes away as he gets more used to going to sleep on his own. If not, it's kind of a dealbreaker for me...we will go back to having me stay in the room if that's what it takes for bedtime to be positive and relaxing. But obviously I will keep trying this until he is settling more easily.

 

[stephie_corin]

Lysh, what wonderful news!! I hope she continues to sleep well for you! How was her nap today? Did the visit affect it too badly? I hope not. Thanks for reassuring me about the one nap. We are GWTF so I guess this is his decision

SE, I agree that it makes sense to leave his nap for now. How is he settling after his water at the NW? Do you leave the room again? I'm sorry he was becoming upset last night during your routine. That's really hard. I know you've received expert advice so I'm not sure if this has been covered but I wonder if some relaxing music at low volume in his room might help to create a relaxing environment while you are outside the room? Although maybe he'd find it too stimulating.

Amy, how is the not feeding to sleep going?

To be honest, I'm not feeling down ... I just wish there was something I could do to fix his sleep!

We are definitely in acute teething territory. He is waking really frequently until I give iboprufen. I gave it to him at 10pm last night and he slept 2 hour stretches until 4.30 am when I had to hold him - I guess the medicine was wearing off. No MOTN parties though

We did 5 then 6 hours awake and he took a fantastic nap - 2 hours with minimal assistance from me.

Something interesting just happened too - I didn't pick him up (NW number 3 within 1.5 hours of bed - poor baby) and he rolled around for ages, held my hand and then fell asleep! He did wake 5 minutes later but I thought that was great progress! I really really need to introduce a lovey - he seems really upset when I'm not there when he wakes, and is holding on to my shirt as he falls asleep.

 

[lysh]

I will write more later...right now I need to vent. I am just so done with nap struggles. I need a freaking break.....for 13 1/2 months this child has taken every ounce of energy out of me. I worked hard to BF, not an easy start, which led to me being the only one who could put her to sleep, comfort her during her million wake-ups, and help her nap. I held her for almost 8 straight months for naps, because it was such a freaking battle to get her into her crib. The rest of the months were hit and miss. And because she went to bed late and woke up so early I had to try to manage the rest of my life during her waking hours. I am tired. I am so done with BFing right now and naps. I got a 30 minute nap out of her in her crib after 2 failed attempts in which I ran around like a lunatic trying to get my wash in the laundry and mop floors. That is about all I got done. Did I say I am tired????? WIth work starting I am just seeing another LONG year of this crap. I almost lost my mind last year, trying to manage my job, the house, and my daughter's high needs. I cannot function like this and yet I have no idea what to do with her. I try to be patient, but right now I am not feeling it. DH does not fully understand because he can easily leave the room to get done what he needs to get done while I am stuck on the couch with her attached to my boob so she will nap.
ugh
Vent over.
Usually I am positive but I am ready to hide in a corner at the moment.

 

[lysh]

And we are in the middle of total separation anxiety, which means when she is awake she is clinging to my legs. :/

 

[mellyboo]

Just when we were starting to sleep so well she starts teething and mess's everything up i've been pulling all nighters... i'm so tired i just want a proper time to sleep train her ... nothing seems to work!! i'm getting fed up shes almost 1 year old for goodness sakes!

 

[seaweed eater]

Sorry melly sounds exhausting! I hope things get better soon.

Lysh, vent away you have a lot on your plate and I can tell you've been pulling off a really delicate balance all these months. It sucks to have to work so hard and have no one really understand. Congrats on getting through the rest of the day. Is there anything more you can get from your DH? What if you tell him that you can't explain it to him but you really are not coping well and need more help, if not from him then from somewhere? Or something like that?
I wouldn't assume that you have another year of things staying the same. Your daughter's going to grow and change a lot this year. Maybe things won't get easier...but they will be different. But if you're not happy with how things are now, then that's a reason to reach out for some help.

 

[stephie_corin]

Lysh, from one mama with a high needs baby to another, I get it. And I'm not even at work yet. It's so hard trying to manage their needs with your own. I know you're just having a down day but I do agree with SE that asking for help when you need it is important. I also think (hope!) the next 12 months will be easier. I can't remember if you have a baby carrier? Would wearing her in the carrier help you get some things done around the house (or even go for a nice relaxing walk?). Does DH give you a break on weekends? Hubby and I have started giving each other some 'me time' on the weekends. We each watch our son for an hour or two and the other goes and does something completely alone - gym, read a book in a cafe. It's such a good mental break for me. Big hugs to you.

Melly, teething is the worst! There's also loads of developmental stuff going on between 9-12 months - I'm sure you've seen a huge change in her. I hope things sort themselves out soon.

SE, how was your night? Amy?

Polaris, how did Thomas do at preschool? I hope he had a blast and Clara is letting you get some sleep.

I can't believe I'm going to write this: we had a good night!!! Stay away curse!! He didn't take any pain meds and I decided to snuggle him all night because he naps well like that and between 11-4 he woke a handful of times but I snuggled him/fed him back to sleep so I barely remember it!

 

[polaris]

Lysh I agree with the others, whatever the next 12 months hold, it won't be the same, she will be getting older and yes there will be new challenges but some of the things that are really stressful now will resolve themselves. Having said that, you just sound exhausted. Is there anything that you can do to take the pressure off a little bit? I remember trying to juggle everything when I was back working after Thomas and it is SOOO hard. I was just so exhausted all the time, people would tell me to take time for myself but honestly once I had done a week's work and looked after my family and the household, I hadn't an ounce of energy to do anything else. And Thomas was a good sleeper by that stage! The other thing that I found really tough was that Thomas would be great all day for whoever was looking after him and then turn into an emotionally unbalanced limpet (stuck to my leg and having a meltdown every five minutes) as soon as I walked in the door at 5 p.m. So you really have my sympathies. It's not easy.

Mellyboo - teething sucks. You have my sympathies too. I can relate all too well!!

Stephie - yay!! I'm so pleased you had a better night! Maybe he just needs the extra security of being snuggled against you at the moment? I would definitely go with that if it works, he won't need it forever.

Thomas's first day at preschool went very well. He was very impressed with their collection of sea creature toys and got to play with sand and water. He was happy to go off again this morning - yay, so far so good!! He's exhausted though, as am I. Clara slept slightly better last night but made up for it by waking up at 5.45 a.m. for the day. Yawn.

 

[lysh]

SE- Thank you, yes DH and I have had talks. He knows I get overwhelmed with everything. Sometimes it just frustrates me because he will try to sympathize, but he really has no idea how challenging it is to balance everything. It is not his fault, it is just the way things are- but still!

Stephie- Thank you, I do have a baby carrier- 4 different kinds to be exact!! When she was a colicky newborn I tried whatever I could to help. She hated carriers when she was younger. Now, she will tolerate my Becco, but only on my front (which makes it hard to get anything done with a 21 pound baby attached to my front). I tried the back carry with it and she is not thrilled, plus I have a hard time getting her into it on my back. I have wraps that I have tried- my SIL is amazing with the wrap. I thought LO might respond to the wrap better since it molds to her body more, but I cannot figure it out for my life- SIL and I tried to practice, but DD was very wiggly and would get frustrated! I actually tried the wrap yesterday on my own and it was a disaster!
My DH and I will take turns getting up in the mornings so we can sleep in or whatever. If I wanted to go out and do something, I could- but honestly, the main issue is not that I need a break outside of the house as much as I need to be able to do what I need to do inside the house.

So glad to hear you had a good night!!!! It is so well-deserved!!!!

Polaris- Thank you, I feel the same way. I just have no energy to go out and do things. DH was trying to convince me to sign up for a yoga class on the weekends to relax and get a break, but as terrible as this sounds, I just do not feel like I have the energy/time to bother right now!!!

Glad the first day of preschool went well!!!

Thank you for 'reading' my vent yesterday. I feel better today. I also felt terrible, because LO ended up developing a fever during the day and there I was feeling overwhelmed and impatient. Other than naps, she slept well at night so I should not be complaining. DH was able to occupy her for a bit yesterday so I was able to get some things done around the house (as long as we were in different rooms, she was okay). If she sees me she freaks! I am hoping this year will be a bit easier than last year now that she is getting older. I have to stay optimistic I guess!
The naps are hard and that is honestly what makes it so hard for me during the work year, but she is getting older, starting to walk so things can change.

Thanks again ladies!!! Hopefully this will be a meltdown free day!

 

[AmyS]

polaris - Sorry about your motn party the other night! Just reading about them caused us to have a 3 hour one Friday night.

lysh - So sorry that you were having a rough moment! I hope you can find some way to relieve the stress. Going back to work on top of everything might help - it does give me a mental break after a long weekend (if she's being overly cranky).

SE - So glad that things seem to be working for you! I agree with you about having bedtime be positive instead of dreaded. Do you plan on giving it a certain number of days before you change your routine?

Stephie - I think that Cully will do fine at daycare! There is so much more stimulation, that they probably wouldn't be able to put him down if they tried. I agree with the lovey - Chloe absolutely loves hers - and she will grab it on her own if she's tired. I sleep with whatever one she isn't using so that it smells like me (so hubby makes fun of me because I sleep with a lovey now too!). It does sound like he is making great progress though!!

Gaia - So sorry about your parents not supporting you!
__________________

Eeek - I made a plan, and then didn't follow it! Just when I thought she would never fall asleep on the bottle again, she is back to it. I am not very willing to change if she isn't leading the change, because she won't drink more than an ounce or two if it's not nap or night time. Maybe that would change if I didn't feed her to sleep, and then she'd be hungier at those other times. I have been obsessed with her feedings since birth, because when she came home she wasn't even eating an ounce at a time. It's hard to let go! I see other moms here posting about their schedules - and we don't have any kind of schedule.

Sleep - Friday night, we had our own little 3 hour motn party. I swear she reads here in her spare time, and thought she needed to have a little fun too!

Naps - she took 2 awesome naps in her crib on Saturday, then wouldn't let me put her down the rest of the weekend (which included Monday too, since it was Labor Day).

 

[stephie_corin]

Polaris, I'm so glad that Thomas had a lovely time! Wonderful news! Sorry that you are so tired though! The early starts are tough, especially when you have a late night and disrupted sleep.

Lysh, I can't do back carry either! How about instead of yoga class, DH takes your daughter out for a daddy daughter date and you get some time in the house? It's funny - when you're a SAHM the thought of an hour to yourself out of the house is heaven - I can understand why it's not do appealing to you though! Also, will your daughter help with chores? My son really likes helping to put the washing on and putting it away. She might like a mini broom and she could sweep while you do?

Amy, three hour MOTN party?! I hope you don't have a run of them like we did! I thinks it's definitely developmental. This week Cully has been so engaged and really trying hard to communicate. He's also exactly the same and takes most of his milk at nap and bedtime. I think it's pretty common because they are so excited about the world!

SE, how are you?

Our night wasn't bad. He slept 2 hour stretches all night. I tried the snuggle method but he wasn't interested last night. Lol. He was up for the day at 530 and is now napping at 930am! No idea how the rest of the day will pan out. If he takes a long nap and refuses an afternoon snooze I guess it's early bedtime?!

I am so bad at GWTF!!!

 

[mellyboo]

Thanks girls shes changed so much .. She's a little monkey now always trying to climb or stand up on things walking comes next !