Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

Seaweed I think all sleep training routines suffer a blip around day 5. I think it's supposed to be the babies reaction to recognising this isn't just a phase! To really succeed at training it can take 2-3weeks with babies that are highly spirited! Some more placid babies adapt far quicker but it does take time. It also sounds that you are already having some great benefits so keep going. Early starts are really tough. I think we had 5.30-6.30 starts since he was 7/8 mths but in the past two months they have tended to be towards the 6.30 side of the window and even the odd sleep past 7am. This has come about since he's moved over to one nap. He isn't sttn though at the moment. He often is unsettled at 5am but goes back to sleep. Last night though we has a motn party at 3.45am. He was up for an hour for no apparent reason. He would be calm if I cuddled him or if daddy stood next to the cot, but that was it. We brought him into our bed and he just climbed off the bed and walked around in the dark! Eventually he cuddles up with his bunny on the floor to go to sleep. I tried to take him back to his cot and he started crying. By this point we run out of ideas so I left him for a few minutes and within 5 mins he was asleep. Oddly when he woke up today he was in a good mood. Mummy and Daddy - not so much!
 
Notnic - that definitely sounds like a developmental MOTN party. That is exactly how Clara gets. She just wants to get up and walk around and have a think about things or whatever it is she is doing! If I try to get her back to sleep she cries hysterically so I generally just leave her to it. Occasionally I even bring her downstairs for a bit if she seems really wired. I never ever did that with Thomas though! I don't know if I've relaxed a bit or if she is just much more persistent in demanding to be up! I don't really remember Thomas doing it in quite the same way, even though his sleep was always disturbed by developmental stuff. Great that you are getting later mornings! A lie in until 7 a.m., who would have thought it? I actually said to somebody yesterday that Clara generally sleeps late in the mornings, "sometimes even until 7.30", they looked at me like I had two heads and said "I thought you were going to say 10 or 11 when you said she slept late". LOL.

SE - great news on the good bedtime! How did your night go? Hope it was better than expected. I never found that how much Thomas ate the evening before made any difference to his sleep, he would just eat a huge breakfast in the morning usually if he hadn't eaten much the night before.

We had a fairly good night last night considering that Clara has a cold! Hopefully she's already over the worst of it because it didn't seem to be bothering her too much last night even though she's still very snotty and snorty.
 
Iwantabub hi and welcome. Sorry to see you here. Keep posting and I'm sure you'll pick up some useful tips. Amy gives good advice :)

SE, thanks for the update. It sounds like Munchkin is doing really well. I'm always amazed at how quickly he responds to sleep training. I think you must be a very responsive mama who knows her son exceptionally well. You should feel proud, even though there are a few things bothering you still. You guys are making excellent progress.

Polaris, how are you? How is Clara? You really need a break. I hope she gets better quickly and you manage some more sleep. Lol at the sleeping until 10 or 11 comment!! I think I'd be on the way to the doctor's office if Cully ever slept that late. Oh, I see you had a better night! That's great!

Lysh, I'm glad she's been sleeping a bit later. Sorry for the 4am start!!

Notnic, MOTN parties sure do leave you feeling exhausted. I love the mental picture of him curled up with his bunny. Too cute!

Sorry that I haven't been around. Some workmen pulled up a cable in our street and we've been Internet-less since Wednesday night. I felt like I lost an arm. Lol.

Cully's sleep has not been great. I've experimented today and got him up after his second sleep cycle for his nap (1.5 hours). I help him back to sleep between sleep cycles for his nap at the moment and he usually does 2 hours 15 minutes before he wakes up happy. He has been fighting bedtime until after 8pm (and up at 6) when he takes the longer nap and just seems tired all day but won't take a second nap. So I'm hoping the shorter nap might make him more tired and fall asleep easier. It's 7.15pm and he's asleep so that's good news. Hopefully he has a good night!
 
SE - Hope you had a good night, even with your weird naps!

Polaris - Poor Clara - I hope she starts feeling better soon! At least it didn't seem to affect your night!

Stephie - How are things for you?

Lysh - Have naps been going well while you've been working? Sounds like she's sleeping good! That 4:30am wake up is not fun though - we've had that 3 times this weeks!
 
Amy, 430am three times this week?! Poor you! You must be so tired!!

I would feel more sorry for hubby and the dog, because it's their fault, and I'm ready to send them both to the dog house! :haha:

I have found that Chloe sleeps better with shorter naps too. I start getting anxious if a nap lasts over 1 1/2 hours, because then I can be sure that she will fight bedtime!
 
Do you guys think I should try and go back to 2 naps? He was staying up so late on 2 naps and even though he seems tired in the day he's on good form. I guess if I bounced him on the ball for a while at an earlier time he would fall asleep. I feel like baby sleep is this highly complex puzzle with infinite bad solutions and only one mysterious good solution.
 
Stephie - I have a lovely bouncing exercise ball at home too! Fond memories of bouncing newborn Chloe when she would have a meltdown every night after 5pm...haha.

From what I've read on other forums, it's not unusual for the one nap transition to start this early, but it may not be a full transition until 12-18 months old. So, he might need one nap some days and two naps other days. Personally, I would probably GWTF on this one - if he's not acting too tired, I'd push the first nap out and only do one. If he takes an early nap and wants an afternoon nap, I'd probably try to cap it at 45 minutes - one sleep cycle. He might be cranky when you get him up though - have I mentioned that I HATE to wake a sleeping baby????

I really don't like transitions!!!! It's not like BOOM! - one day they're ready and you know it. It's so gradual.
 
That's such good advice Amy, thank you!!

Cully used to meltdown between 7-10 pm. We never had any idea why and would take turns bouncing him on the exercise ball or daddy would do this special step that he swears still puts Cully to sleep (it doesn't!)... It's kind of a slow lunge walk that looks hilarious and is highly ineffective!!
 
That's such good advice Amy, thank you!!

Cully used to meltdown between 7-10 pm. We never had any idea why and would take turns bouncing him on the exercise ball or daddy would do this special step that he swears still puts Cully to sleep (it doesn't!)... It's kind of a slow lunge walk that looks hilarious and is highly ineffective!!

I hope you got that on video!!! :haha::haha::haha:
 
Laughing at the mental image of your DH's ineffective sleep walk, Steph! I agree with Amy about the nap transition being a gradual process. In fact Amy wrote pretty much exactly what I would have written if I wasn't so sleep deprived and could still use my brain. LOL.

With Clara, she still mostly needs two naps but we do have the occasional one nap day. I do try to encourage her to have two naps because she seems to get too tired when she only has one nap, even if she sleeps for 2.5+ hours. I nearly always have to wake her from her naps but luckily she isn't generally cranky when she wakes up. Thomas always was (and still is).
 
There was a lot to catch up on, so will do my best to reply!!

SE- Thank you for the continued updates....it is interesting reading your experiences after the consultation and how sleep training is working.

Polaris- Glad the cold did not effect your LO too much! My dd woke up at 1am.....on top of her cold she is now teething terribly. She seemed in a lot of pain today. :nope:

AmyS- I only had one full day this week...Monday starts our first full time week. Claire was sick the day I had to go back (figures) and she only slept 30 min at my SILs...poor thing. Sorry you had so many early wake-ups.....dd would go through phases like that and is really hard when she does! Even though.

Stephie- My LO switches between 1-2 naps depending on the day. I kind of follow her lead (when I am home). When I am at work it will probably end up being 1 a day. I think with these LOs we have to just go with it and see what causes the least amount of sleep stress. The one thing I like about the one nap is that dd goes to bed easily at night and it is easier to get her into her crib for at least a portion of her nap, however she tends to get a bit crankier during the day.

I apologize if I missed responding to anyone. I am still exhausted....dd is teething on top of still having a cold/cough so she was cranky/miserable today and because she did not sleep well last night I was cranky/miserable. I did not even bother trying to put her in her crib for naps today because I knew it would be a battle and she needed her sleep, so I also got no mommy break. I kept coughing too which means I did not nap. Hopefully she will STTN tonight....students start on Monday and I really would hate to start my first full week and day with students being sick/exhausted! Not a good first impression.
 
Time to catch up!!

Stephie, I'm sorry things have been discouraging again, but it sounds like you had some good nights earlier this week! Don't forget about those!! I agree with all of the advice Amy has given you: that a lovey is a great idea, and that I'm sure he will be fine on one nap at daycare because there will be so much to distract him, and also that you should do one or two naps depending on how the day is going. I also think it's a good idea to try to keep one of the naps short. I usually use the same approach as Polaris and cap the first one since that's the one I expect him to drop. But we do have a reliable method for getting him to sleep (in the car) in the afternoon if all else fails...it would be riskier if we didn't have that.
And thank you for your kind words about Munchkin's progress. It means a lot to hear that from you :hugs:

Lysh, :hugs: :hugs: it sounds like you are having a rough week!! I hope you and LO are both on the mend ASAP. Don't worry about what impression you are making on Monday...I think you should pat yourself on the back for just making it through as a functioning person, honestly. It's so tough to parent when sick.

Your daughter has a C name too! What is it with the C names in this thread??

Polaris, so glad Thomas is doing well at preschool! I'm really sorry about Clara's cold and hope you go right back to the better nights (and more space to move around) once she's feeling better. Thank you for saying that about Thomas' dinner not making a difference to his sleep. That's what I was hoping would be the case, but I'm new to this whole night weaning thing so I wasn't sure whether this was something that would be disruptive or not. I will relax about trying to stuff food and milk into him in the evenings -- I think it's been counterproductive anyway!

Amy, sorry about your early mornings. 4:30 is no picnic. I don't think it's just you who's obsessed with feeding -- seems to be pretty common. At my baby group we talk about how it's such a basic instinct, wanting to feed your child! When I get like that I think about the stereotypical [choose your cultural/ethnic group] mother piling food on her adult child's plate and saying "Eat, eat! You're wasting away!" and it gives me a little perspective. :haha: I agree with Polaris that it's ok to change your mind and be responsive. Really! I don't think it's just a euphemism for indecisiveness. You seem to have great intuition so I'm sure you are doing the right thing in following it.

Iwantabub, welcome :hugs: I'm sooo sorry you're having sleep troubles while you're recovering from illness. That's really exhausting. Sounds like the regression to me...with teething you'd see some swelling in the gums (I think? I know I have the world's slowest teether) and temperature-wise it sounds ok to me. How have things been since you posted?
Also more questions: what is your routine/schedule like during the day? How are naps? When are you putting LO down at night? How does LO go to sleep? And how do you deal with the night wakings?

NotNic, thanks :thumbup: I think it's usually days 3-4 with the extinction burst...we had it on day 4 a couple times ago. Nothing noticeable this time, thank goodness. Munchkin's always been an early riser so I don't have much hope of really changing him...we'd be very happy with 6 every morning. But who knows! I'm sure things will be different by the time he's a teenager. Although I remember being an early riser myself in high school, so maybe not?! Either way it's clear where he gets it from. :haha: I'm sorry about your MOTN party. Sounds developmental and very VERY familiar! I hope it was a one off. (Polaris, I think this is one of the few things where my son is more like Clara than like Thomas! :p This and not being cranky when woken from naps!)

AFU - Last night turned out just fine! THREE STTNs in a row!! :wohoo: The early mornings are getting 5 min earlier each day though. It's generally pooping that wakes him up so not much to be done. Except hope that not feeding until 6 works eventually, I guess. :shrug:

No crying during stories or when I put him in bed tonight :thumbup: he did have some trouble falling asleep and got frustrated after a bit, but not too bad.

So overall I would say things are good!! Just in time for the weekend to mess everything up...it always does. :dohh:
 
SE- Yay for no crying at bedtime!!!! I hate when the poops get in the way! lol Hopefully that will not last. How are naps going?

So I have been up since 4am. This time it is not due to my daughter, but the constant coughing. I was in bed by 8:30 last night, but coughed until 10 then woke up at 4 coughing. How annoying!!! DD is still sleeping, even though she is restless (as I can see in the monitor). Poor baby keeps coughing too...it is now 5am. I have a feeling she will be up shortly as well.
I wish I did not have to worry about the impression I make, but first impressions can make or break a school year, you know? If I am not on my game this week it could make for a difficult year.

I am hoping I can somehow get a nap in today. I ended up giving dd tylenol last night....between her recovering from the cold and teething, she was not a happy baby. She was in bed by 7:30- we are pretty much getting her to bed close to a half hour earlier than usual.

Well, hope you ladies got a decent night's sleep!
 
So, yesterday's experiment (of a shorter nap) was a disaster! He was so overtired and woke crying many, many times. We also think it may be teething again... Anyway, we decided this morning he definitely isn't ready for 1 nap and that I would put him down around 9ish for a nap NO MATTER WHAT. Cully disagreed with us, and after an hour of trying to get him to nap we got up and he ended up taking a 2.5 hour nap, 5 hours after waking. I'm going to be really strict at bedtime and do my very best to ensure his last waketime doesn't exceed 5-5.5 hours.

We also decided to try some pain relief tonight to see if it is teething. I can't see any new teeth about to erupt and (as you all know) - I hate to give too much pain relief, but anything is worth a shot at this stage.

SE, you're right - we did have some good nights earlier in the week so I'm holding onto some hope!

If he decides he wants an early nap, my plan is to cap it at 45 minutes (basically at his first stirring) and try for a second afternoon nap. Otherwise we are just winging it!

Polaris, it's interesting that Clara is ok when you wake her from naps. Cully is such a monster! I didn't realise you were waking her for both naps. Have you ever tried just letting her sleep as long as she likes? I wonder what would happen (I'm not suggesting you are doing it wrong - I'm just curious!).

SE, I'm doing a celebratory dance in your's and Munchkin's honour! What a truly fantastic update! I hope the weekend sees a continuation of your good run of sleep!

Lysh, I'm sorry you were up so early. I really hope this cold gets better asap for you. It's tough because you need sleep to recover. Hopefully lying down with your girl will let you both take a nice long nap during the day.
 
7.02pm... Sleeping baby! (5.5 hours after waking). Now I just need to transfer him!
 
Steph, sorry you had a rubbish night last night. Well done getting him down so early this evening though! Fingers crossed for a better night tonight.

Sometimes I do let Clara sleep as long as she wants. If I do she will generally take a very long morning nap. For example today she had a 2.5 hour nap in the morning. This makes her afternoon nap difficult/very late though. Usually I get her up in the morning so that we can get out of the house and so that I can get her napping at the same time as Thomas in the afternoon (with a bit of luck). She generally wakes herself from her afternoon nap, usually about 1.5 hours, but if she's still sleeping at 4/4.30 I do tend to wake her so that it doesn't push bedtime too late. She had a late afternoon nap today so I woke her after 45 minutes as it was already 5 p.m. and I knew I would have a ridiculously late bedtime if I didn't get her up then. She is easy to wake though because she always wakes up happy!! Thomas was such a demon if he woke early from a nap.

It does sound like I am super controlling about her sleep when I write it all down like that! I just can never understand why she naps so well and sleeps so badly at night.
 
Polaris, I don't think that sounds controlling - just sensible. Cully won't sleep more than a sleep cycle these days during naps without help so I also control the length of his naps. I tend to go by whether he wakes crying or is happy as to whether I extend them!

We had a terrible night. He would only sleep in my arms. I even gave him iboprufen but it didnt help. He's teething and he woke up sick today. He has a really runny nose, a cough and he threw up twice :( poor baby.
 
Oh and it's going to be a 2 nap day (I hope!) - he slept for 45 minutes and then threw up and was wide awake. He's never thrown up before, believe it or not (I know how lucky we have been). I'm sure he will be fine, of course. But I feel really bad for him.
 
Aw poor Cully! Throwing up is just the pits for everyone. You might find you need to reduce his awake times a bit anyway if he's unwell. I usually find that Clara takes shorter naps but closer together when she's not well.

I feel like I am coming down with something today, probably Clara's cold. I would really love a proper break! Somebody to just take both children for half a day would be lovely.

A bit of positive news though - I was feeding Clara to sleep for her morning nap today and it was taking her ages to settle. In the end I had to go out because I was taking Thomas to his swimming lesson and we were going to be late. So I left Clara with OH and he managed to get her to sleep! This is the first time that anyone except me has got her to sleep in months! (we gave up trying)
 

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