Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[AngelUK]

Megan I am so sorry for what you are going through! It sounds like you are having a dreadful time. I can second what Noelle says about some babies becoming more agitated when you go into them. CC would never work with my boys cause they cannot understand why I won't pick them up if I come to them.
Last night Sebastian woke at 12:45 whining, which is unusual for him but I thought maybe for once he was hungry before Dominic and I went in with his bottle ready. He didn't want it but upon seeing me started crying harder! I discovered that he probably woke cause his dummy was under his back. I gave it to him and his muslin and he shrieked at me! I dived onto the nursery bed so he couldn't see me just to see if he would calm himself. I swear, as soon as I was out of sight, he went back to sleep. There was not even one second of crying after he lost sight of me! We have the GroEgg for a nightlight btw.
Dominic didn't wake through all of this but usually when Sebastian wakes for a minute or two at night and cries Dominic will wake up and try to go to sleep again by turning to his other side. But if I go in to check on Sebastian, Dominic will cry too. With the result that I have two crying babies. I leave the room and they calm down.
I am not a huge fan of CIO but I do believe that the prolonged stress of their frequent wakings and the crying that it comes with it, causes them to produce more stress hormones than a few days of sleep training. We did 3 days of CIO with Dominic about a month back to stop his gazillion wakings in the evenings and he no longer wakes at all in the evening now! I have a video monitor and one camera on each baby and I would know if he woke and just didn't cry. He doesn't wake. I now wonder if our going to him so often to re-rock him to sleep might have made him think he kind of had to wake? I don't know but we are now down to one bottle at night and a somewhat early morning. But oh my gosh how much more rested and happy we all are!
I hope you can work out something for you and your LO soon and that you will both be happier with it xx

 

[Noelle610]

Angel, I'm so happy to hear you and the boys are getting some sleep!

 

[AngelUK]

Thanks Noelle, so am I. Almost 6 months of dreading the evening and night started taking their toll on me and OH. Now they wake round 5am (though sometimes sleep till 6 which is like a lie in to us lol) which is owie early but we are getting a 4 hour stretch or so before that so yeah that is blissful

 

[daneuse27]

Danuese, don't despair! We've all been there. Have you taken your LO to the doctor to rule out a medical cause for the gas?


Shadowy Lady, three cheers for YOU sleeping!

Ive mentioned it to doctors, but they are useless. they just brush it off saying all babies are gassy.

What kind of medical causes would there be? you're scaring me now.

 

[Noelle610]

Danuese, don't despair! We've all been there. Have you taken your LO to the doctor to rule out a medical cause for the gas?


Shadowy Lady, three cheers for YOU sleeping!

Ive mentioned it to doctors, but they are useless. they just brush it off saying all babies are gassy.

What kind of medical causes would there be? you're scaring me now.

Oh gosh, I didn't mean to scare you! I was mostly thinking of something like reflux, which while it is painful for baby and mom isn't dangerous. I'm sorry the doctors aren't taking you seriously. That is the worst.

I think you may have mentioned this previously, but could it be something in your diet? Have you tried an elimination diet?

 

[Boo44]

Wow angel you're doing amazing considering you have 2! I often think I couldn't do it if I had one waking up and disturbing the other!! So pleased your boys are sleeping great! When you did CIO for Dominic's early evening wakings what happened did he cry for long?

Megan I really feel for you after reading that and I really really hope it sorts out soon! I do wonder if jack plays up a bit for me compared to his dad, so maybe the others are right and your DF doing a few nights might help things?

 

[bananaz]

Megan - Big hugs to you, what a tough situation all around. One of the few nice things about being a single mom is that I have the final say on all parenting decisions (though my family does like interject their opinions whenever they can). It's hard enough to figure out a strategy when you don't have someone else around second-guessing everything!

Anyway, I totally agree with Noelle's suggestions, especially about having your OH handle the sleep training. If he's able to comfort her through the bars and he doesn't want to try CIO, then maybe he could do the Sleep Lady Shuffle? Or I guess it would be the Sleep Gentleman Shuffle in this case...

https://www.parentsconnect.com/pare...sleeping/good-night-sleep-lady-shuffle-1.html

Lady - Yay for progress! I know what you mean about being sad to let go but once you start getting more sleep I suspect that sadness will fade away pretty quickly

daneuse - Sorry you're having such troubles with gas, we've been there too unfortunately. Are you breastfeeding? If so, how's your supply? Is your LO having any other GI symptoms (green or frothy or explosive poos, spitting up frequently, etc)?

Angel - I seriously can't imagine having to deal with two babies in the same room waking each other up. I would probably have a heart attack from the anxiety. Sounds like you are managing it really well though!

 

[Lady_Bee]

Omg first nap of the day he settled soooooo well it only took 20 minutes of me sitting there reminding him to lie down. No crying! Amazed. Really didn't expect that to go so well. Wonder how long he will sleep for!

Lol Bananaz you're right I won't be sad once I start to get more sleep!! I get plenty of other cuddles during the day too, so I won't be missing out, and to be honest the best cuddles are the cute giggly ones anyway not the grumpy sleepy ones where I've been pacing the room for an hour... Ugh...

It's interesting a lot of your OHs have the magic touch with settling the babies! I said the same thing to my DH last night. He was in the room with me at bedtime and whenever he said "it's time for night night" Alexander just laid his head down without protest, whereas when I did it he would look plaintively at me and start to fret - I think he appreciates my husband's no nonsense attitude. He knows he can milk it a little with me and he always has. I do feel that sometimes he exaggerates his distress to get extra cuddles! He also has a fake cry that is very convincing, lol I can't tell the difference sometimes.

 

[Sunnie1984]

Mrspear - That's really really tough on you, I'm sorry. I couldn't sit up all night, I'd collapse! I hope things get better for you tonight. I agree that nursery routine will help a lot, if only to tire her out!

Mrsbeano - that's great, I hope he takes the next reduction well

Noelle - Sorry you had a rough night, it just takes so long to go back to sleep when you've been up so late in the middle of the night. I'm glad it was something that you could fix though, and that she had a real reason for waking.

Daneuse - I was going to suggest change of formula but I see you are breast feeding. Do you think it could be something you are eating that is transferring to the breast milk?

Shadowy Lady - Aww thank you! Glad your doctor was so helpful. We can't stay home either, Seren gets cabin fever if I try to stay in after her first nap! I'm really glad last night was better for you. At least you got some solid hours of sleep in, although it's frustrating that nightmares appear when you are getting some decent sleep. Definitely take tonight off too and recharge, it'll do you so much good.

Megangrohl - I'm sorry that CC didn't go so well for you. I think that consistency is the key, that if you are trying CC, you need to give it a good try, like at least a week, and even if it starts to work, expect one or two setbacks. It seems to work for Lily as she settled for your DH. I think LO's always act differently for each parent, so I think that you both just need to continue with it, even if she fights it for you initially. If that really isn't working, then CIO is probably your next step, but it maybe that once she realises that there is no getting back into your bed, she'll go to bed more readily? Also, let DH do a few nights in a row before you try again, so that she begins to see the new pattern is bed in her own room?


Lady Bee- Congrats on the cold turkey. I think that's brilliant progress. I read somewhere (forget where) that they settle easier the first time before they realise that it's not a one time deal! Then they fight the change more the next times round. I agree with Noelle, it'll take him a little longer to adjust because he's older and he's had longer to get used to that way of going to sleep.


As for us..

Seren had neurofen and calpol during the day today, and had one nap at 1 hour, and 2 45 mins naps, which are unheard of here, so at least she caught up slightly. She didn't seem to need any painkillers this afternoon or this evening, so I've drawn it up into the syringe ready to use if she is having problems during the night.

I also think I may have had a breakthrough (tentative as i'm sure it'll all go to pot tonight!). She's been having really bad wind problems, spends the entire day spitting up milk, and bedtimes are a nightmare trying to get rid of all the wind before she sleeps.

Infacol does nothing, and gripe water upset her tummy a couple of days ago, after only one dose. So she hadn't pooped in 48 hours (until this afternoon, which I think added to the night wakings).

Someone on a thread in baby club mentioned that comfort formula gave her baby really bad wind. We use comfort milk, so I decided to do half comfort milk and half aptamil 1 in her bottles this afternoon.

And success! (so far, crossing fingers). She barely had any wind and she only spit up a tiny amount! I'm really hoping that this will solve the problem of the wind, I think it will make her much happier.

She went down with a fight tonight as she refused her last nap, even in the car which isn't like her, so I bather her at 5:15pm (as soon as we got back home) but as she hadn't slept well last night, she was overtired and cried quite a bit.

She might wake for a nightfeed, as she hasn't eaten as much as she normally does, but that's ok, I can cope with wake, feed, sleep after the last two days!

 

[daneuse27]

Danuese, don't despair! We've all been there. Have you taken your LO to the doctor to rule out a medical cause for the gas?


Shadowy Lady, three cheers for YOU sleeping!

Ive mentioned it to doctors, but they are useless. they just brush it off saying all babies are gassy.

What kind of medical causes would there be? you're scaring me now.

Oh gosh, I didn't mean to scare you! I was mostly thinking of something like reflux, which while it is painful for baby and mom isn't dangerous. I'm sorry the doctors aren't taking you seriously. That is the worst.

I think you may have mentioned this previously, but could it be something in your diet? Have you tried an elimination diet?

Thats what Im doing now, to see if it makes a difference. Im cutting out all dairy and traces of dairy completely for a week and see if there's a change. This is very hard for me because dairy is one of my favourite things and makes up a huge part of my diet. But if she were to sleep 12 hours a night, and then take naps, I would be such a happier mom. I normally am a happy mom, but being sick makes this so hard .

That poll I posted asking people how much their babies sleep - it seemed like every single person who responded said 11/12 hours at night and 3 hours of naps during the day. I stopped reading the responses because it almost depressed me. I wish I could get my LO to sleep like that. The other night, she slept 12 hours BUT with several gas wakings so it doesnt really count. And then it took 90 mins to get her down for a nap that only lasted 40 minutes (again, woke up with gas!) I would kill for her to sleep better. I really would.

 

[daneuse27]

daneuse - Sorry you're having such troubles with gas, we've been there too unfortunately. Are you breastfeeding? If so, how's your supply? Is your LO having any other GI symptoms (green or frothy or explosive poos, spitting up frequently, etc)?

Thank you. No, she doesnt have strange poos and I wouldnt say she spits up too often either. Im trying an elimination diet now to see if that changes anything and maybe ill try more products out there, like gas drops to see if that has any effect. Gripe water has helped, but it doesnt seem to be doing much now. Neither does the chiropractor.

 

[Sunnie1984]

That poll I posted asking people how much their babies sleep - it seemed like every single person who responded said 11/12 hours at night and 3 hours of naps during the day. I stopped reading the responses because it almost depressed me. I wish I could get my LO to sleep like that. The other night, she slept 12 hours BUT with several gas wakings so it doesnt really count. And then it took 90 mins to get her down for a nap that only lasted 40 minutes (again, woke up with gas!) I would kill for her to sleep better. I really would.

That's because the only ones who can be bothered to reply to those polls are the ones who are getting blissful nights sleep! Everyone else can barely read the forum as they are so tired!

 

[bananaz]

We are going through a rough patch here LO continues to refuse to be nursed or patted to sleep for naps and self-settling seems to be getting worse rather than better. When I put her in her crib for a nap now she immediately launches into these heart-wrenching hysterical sobs and it takes 30-40 minutes to get her to sleep.

Last night she was up quite a bit too. I only had to go in once but hearing her grumble and waiting to see if I was going to need to go in made it impossible for me to sleep the rest of the time. At one point I woke up on my own and started freaking out because I thought I'd fallen asleep with her in my bed and then I couldn't find her. I turned on all the lights and started tearing apart my room looking for her, convinced that I'd killed her somehow

To make things even worse she seems to have lost almost all of her self-sufficiency and spends every waking moment crying and hitting at my legs, then if I pick her up she'll be happy for a moment before crying and twisting to be put down. Rinse and repeat x10000. The only times she'll entertain herself is if she's getting into stuff she's not supposed to, like the garbage or electrical wires.

I'm totally tapped out at this point. I'm on the verge of tears all the time, and I have no patience with her at all which makes me feel even worse. I'm already fed up with her today and she hasn't even been awake for 3 hours yet

 

[Noelle610]

Sunnie, I am glad you found a possible solution! Keep us posted.

Daneuse, I totally understand where you are coming from. When you are exhausted, the last thing you want to do is go on a huge and complicated diet! Kudos to you for keeping with it - I hope you find the culprit. Don't stress about your sleep poll. I agree with Sunnie that those who responded are likely the moms getting more rest. It's like a poll about getting down to your pre-pregnancy weight - those who are super slim right away are the only ones who are giong to share! I also think it's hard to keep perspective when you're so tired and run down. When Charlotte was sleeping really poorly, I felt like every baby I knew was STTN. I think it was because I was so focused on those babies and what I was doing "wrong". The truth is, different babies have different sleep needs. I post on another board with a specific forum for sleep training and this is mentioned constantly - you have to know, is your baby a 12 hour a night baby or a 10 hour a night baby? Babies are just like adults - I need 8 hours of sleep to feel good (ha!), but my husband does well on just 6.

Bananaz, I am sorry you're having a rough time. Charlotte always been kind of on the loud side. Those grumbles wake me, too. Even when she sleeps through the night I often hear her and it's really frustrating. Why can't she be one of those babies that just sleeps through without a peep so that I can sleep through too?!!!!! We also went through the clingy thing and it was super frustrating. C was miserable unless I was holding her or paying attention to her. I'm happy to say it did pass around week 37, just as that wonder week is supposed to end. I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly, but I believe Elsie was due a week later than Charlotte or so? Hopefully this phase passes quickly for you.

 

[bananaz]

Sunnie - I'm so glad you're having some success after all the difficulties you've been dealing with. Hopefully the formula change will continue to keep her belly settled. I'm sure that will help with sleep too.

 

[bananaz]

Thank you. No, she doesnt have strange poos and I wouldnt say she spits up too often either. Im trying an elimination diet now to see if that changes anything and maybe ill try more products out there, like gas drops to see if that has any effect. Gripe water has helped, but it doesnt seem to be doing much now. Neither does the chiropractor.

The elimination diet is definitely a good idea. I did Dr. Sears' total elimination diet when my LO was a month old and it was really hard but it made such a huge difference for her, especially with sleep. Let us know how it goes!

 

[Sunnie1984]

Sunnie - I'm so glad you're having some success after all the difficulties you've been dealing with. Hopefully the formula change will continue to keep her belly settled. I'm sure that will help with sleep too.

Thanks Bananaz and Noelle.

I just feel like I want to kick myself now, because I didn't even consider her formula, makes me wonder whether the reflux was down to the formula too.

Although I feel like it's too simple a switch, and had an effect rather too quickly, so I'm convinced another problem will raise it's head tomorrow.

Bananaz, sorry you are having a tough time. It does sound like a wonder week. I forget, has Elsie already gone through her separation anxiety? I guess she could be dealing with that too?

Does Elsie respond to ssshhing? I think maybe she's too old for it to work, but recently Seren's self settling has gone out of the window, and I've had her on my shoulder and sssshhhh her, and she puts her head down on my shoulder and puts her thumb in her mouth and starts to drift off. Then I can put her in the cot and carry on ssshhhing and she finds her thumb again and goes to sleep.

Do you have anyone around you who could give you a break for a bit (although that might be hard with the way Elsie is being at the moment). Or even someone who can just come and sit with you, I always find it easier to deal with Seren when she's fussy if there is someone else with me, it gives me some distraction if nothing else.

 

[AngelUK]

Thanks guys but the only way I can cope is cause I have an amazing OH who takes every other night. If he was working at a regular job this would be impossible.
The first time we did the CIO it wasn't really the classic one. What happened was that it was OH's night but he woke me at 3 for moral support as he had been rocking Dominic for 3 hours! Every time he put him in his cot seemingly asleep, Dominic would start crying again. Poor OH has RSI in his elbow from having to rock that heavy little boy every night as it is. Well I got up and tried to rock Dominic too. After another 45 minutes we just gave up and said ok now he will just have to cry. We put him in his cot, sat next to him and not 5 minutes later he was asleep!! So we thought we would try this of an evening and see if maybe this way Dominic wouldn't sleep deeply sooner as rocking him back to sleep sometimes could take up to an hour. Next night we rocked him to sleep as always and when he woke 30 minutes later we let him cry. That took 15 minutes. He didn't cry the whole time but "complained" and whined a lot interspersed with crying. The odd thing was that he didn't wake again that evening. Usually he would wake up ca 10 times between his bed time bottle and midnight feed. The next night was 10 mins complainy whiney crying and then the next it was 5. Since then he sometimes woke for a minute and whined a bit and then just went back to sleep. We have had the odd night here and there were for some reason or another the boys would wake in the middle of the night and cry and where we had to let them cry, as going in would have made it worse. But it usually takes far less than 5 minutes before they drop off again. But there have been one or two nights where we did go back into the room and rocked Dominic to sleep cause he got too upset to self settle. But there is a difference in the crying if that is the case. It wasn't the whiney, tired complainy crying but full on sobbing, pretty much immediately. And we would never let him go hysterical and frightened and sit there waiting for him to drop off through exhaustion. I couldn't! It always is Dominic who cries like that btw, never Sebastian. But on one night Sebastian was wide awake as Dominic had been crying so loudly. So after Dominic dropped off on OH's knee in less than a minute, we then tried to rock Sebastian to sleep too but he was bright eyed and bushy tailed. So with him too we gave up after an hour and put him in his cot. He cried as long as he saw us and was out like a light as soon as we hid behind the nursery bed.
I don't know if others will experience this as we did or if their LO will go completely hysterical. I still live in fear of my boys waking and crying cause I hate CIO, it makes me feel nauseous. But I also know that the boys and I will get less sleep if I go into them or rock them and try to let them fall asleep on me. Strange but true.

 

[bananaz]

Thanks Bananaz and Noelle.

I just feel like I want to kick myself now, because I didn't even consider her formula, makes me wonder whether the reflux was down to the formula too.

Although I feel like it's too simple a switch, and had an effect rather too quickly, so I'm convinced another problem will raise it's head tomorrow.

Don't beat yourself up about it. There's way too many variables for you to be able to think of them all right away!

Bananaz, sorry you are having a tough time. It does sound like a wonder week. I forget, has Elsie already gone through her separation anxiety? I guess she could be dealing with that too?

Does Elsie respond to ssshhing? I think maybe she's too old for it to work, but recently Seren's self settling has gone out of the window, and I've had her on my shoulder and sssshhhh her, and she puts her head down on my shoulder and puts her thumb in her mouth and starts to drift off. Then I can put her in the cot and carry on ssshhhing and she finds her thumb again and goes to sleep.

Do you have anyone around you who could give you a break for a bit (although that might be hard with the way Elsie is being at the moment). Or even someone who can just come and sit with you, I always find it easier to deal with Seren when she's fussy if there is someone else with me, it gives me some distraction if nothing else.

She's been dealing with separation anxiety since 4 months. It's gotten somewhat better recently but that's probably a part of this anyway. It seems like it's neverending!

Normally she does respond pretty well to shushing but whatever's going on with her right now has made that an ineffective tool as well. It will calm her down for a bit but then she gets worked up again

Unfortunately I don't have anyone around to help except on the weekends and sometimes for a little bit in the evenings. Believe me, I would gladly hand her off if I could, haha. She actually tends to do really well with other people as long as she knows them and she can't see me. The one issue is that she's breastfed and won't take a bottle, so I never get more than a couple of hours off at a time. After 8 months it's gotten pretty exhausting.

 

[megangrohl]

hey bananaz thank you for the link, DF is going to try that for a few nights and I am going away for 2 nights because it is much needed. I am so stressed out! this separation anxiety is terrible, and it is only at night. my mom says i should just let her sleep in my bed but that is NOT an option. She moves constantly, I am an incredibly light sleeper and it wakes me up every 5 minutes. And like you, we have no help. It is just DF and I. I feel a bit worse for you as you are a single mom