Refreshing talk today with HV's regarding BFing

[Blah11]

Oh musn't say that! Don't you know it will offend some FFers (not all, don't get me wrong), because saying BF has any benefits=saying formula is poison. I mean thats a natural conclusion to make, BF reduces the risk of cot death? Well then that must be saying FF guarantees it. BF reduces the risk of certain cancers; well if you FF for long enough those BFers are saying you'll definitely get cancer and the formula caused it. I do suspect some of those on this thread who want information and pros and cons on formula and BF both to be given would like some of the facts about BF regarding benefits to be downplayed a bit because they are after all, pushing women to BF and not allowing them to make an informed choice.

I think that whole post was a bit of a bad idea. Its like stirring up even more bad feelings and making it more BF vs FF

 

[LoraLoo]

Oh musn't say that it will offend some FF, because saying BF has any benefits=saying formula is poison. I do suspect some of those on this thread who want information and pros and cons on formula and BF both to be given would like some of the facts about BF regarding benefits to be downplayed a bit because they are after all, pushing women to BF and not allowing them to make an informed choice.

Looking back, when i had DD1 who is almost 11, and DS who is 7, the only benefit of BF i knew o were that it helped mum lose weight and reduced the risk of baby being asthmatic. I only BF DD1 for about a week and FF DS from the off. If I'd have known the benefits of BF back then i'd probably have stuck it out. In fact, I was never really 'told' of the benefits from health professionals at all, it was just information i found out myself. Once i had that info, BF long term was something i definately wanted to do. So it is something you can argue either way imo xx

 

[Blah11]

I do feel sometimes that if I talk about something good about breastfeeding, it is shot down...and that's too bad. It's an accomplishment for me too, and I am proud of it...just like a homebirth or 'natural' birth is an accomplishment for others. I would never make someone feel bad for their homebirth, just because I had to have all c-sections...so, I don't know why me talking about the benefits and joy of breastfeeding is taken so personally sometimes. It is very dissapointing...it's not a competition, but it just feels at times, that if a breastfeeding woman has a ticker (which is why I don't have the breastfeeding tickers) or talks about it...it somehow offends someone. If I see a homebirth badge, I don't get upset or offended...I think "great, good for them"...sometiems I wish I could too...but, I never feel that people shouldn't talk about it??? Am I crazy to think it is similar???

I dont generally have those feelings with BF (and I wear my ticker with pride even though its 6 months out of date :\)as no one can argue with facts really but I do agree with the natural birth thing. Its annoying when people say 'theres no medals for going epidural free' :\ I know that but I'm still proud of myself!

 

[24/7]

When I see BF posts/speak to BF'ing ladies I have a huge admiration for them, and the hard work they do for their LO's, and also a huge amount of jealously as I wish it were me.

Nobody can deny BF is best, it is what nature intended us to do, however FF isnt poisen as it has been pointed out, and nobody is less of a Mum because they cant/dont BF, we all love our children and try to do our best.

And I agree with the birth thing, I always add in I went epi free, why?! Because I am very proud of it, and why not? xx

 

[summer rain]

Oh musn't say that it will offend some FF, because saying BF has any benefits=saying formula is poison. I do suspect some of those on this thread who want information and pros and cons on formula and BF both to be given would like some of the facts about BF regarding benefits to be downplayed a bit because they are after all, pushing women to BF and not allowing them to make an informed choice.

Seriously??? the only thing on this thread that offends me is you!! Your posts always without fail are there to cause an argument.

Not one person that I have seen has said that there shouldnt be leaflets, booklets and advice for breastfeeding we just think the same should be for fomula feeding too. Nobody has said one should be pushed into the corner.


Why exactly do you insist on causing an argument???

sorry but I am not, but I am afraid this is what it always boils down to. Whenever BFers on baby and bump even mention they chose to BF for whatever reason with regard to reduced risks they get accused of claiming that FF is poision and that FF definitely causes cancer, certain illnesses etc etc and that such information/studies are out there simply to offend people who FF. I have seen it time and time again and frankly, yes it does upset me. Its like we are not allowed to choose to BF based on the benefits because that is somehow an affront to those who FF. I have FF myself and to be honest I have never felt that way but a lot of people seem to have a problem.

 

[Laura2919]

I agree you should be proud, breastfeeding is an achievement but I dont like it when people try to put words into peoples mouths! I posted why my girls were formula fed, it wasnt a choice I wanted to make it was taken out of my hands. Nobody is saying people are forcing us to BF and we like hearing all the good breastfeeding does.

Nobody on here has said breastfeeding should be swept under the carpet we have said that parents should be given a choice and there should be information available for both exactly the same.

 

[summer rain]

Oh musn't say that! Don't you know it will offend some FFers (not all, don't get me wrong), because saying BF has any benefits=saying formula is poison. I mean thats a natural conclusion to make, BF reduces the risk of cot death? Well then that must be saying FF guarantees it. BF reduces the risk of certain cancers; well if you FF for long enough those BFers are saying you'll definitely get cancer and the formula caused it. I do suspect some of those on this thread who want information and pros and cons on formula and BF both to be given would like some of the facts about BF regarding benefits to be downplayed a bit because they are after all, pushing women to BF and not allowing them to make an informed choice.

I think that whole post was a bit of a bad idea. Its like stirring up even more bad feelings and making it more BF vs FF

I meant it in a lighthearted way to be honest but unfortunately it is somewhat true. Perhaps I spoke to soon but was rather foolishly trying to sardonically (if thats a word) pre-empt the inevitable comments in response to ladies saying BF reduces SIDs, risks of certain cancers etc because inevitably it does end up offending people. Not sure why, but it does.

 

[Laura2919]

Oh musn't say that it will offend some FF, because saying BF has any benefits=saying formula is poison. I do suspect some of those on this thread who want information and pros and cons on formula and BF both to be given would like some of the facts about BF regarding benefits to be downplayed a bit because they are after all, pushing women to BF and not allowing them to make an informed choice.

Seriously??? the only thing on this thread that offends me is you!! Your posts always without fail are there to cause an argument.

Not one person that I have seen has said that there shouldnt be leaflets, booklets and advice for breastfeeding we just think the same should be for fomula feeding too. Nobody has said one should be pushed into the corner.


Why exactly do you insist on causing an argument???

sorry but I am not, but I am afraid this is what it always boils down to. Whenever BFers on baby and bump even mention they chose to BF for whatever reason with regard to reduced risks they get accused of claiming that FF is poision and that FF definitely causes cancer, certain illnesses etc etc and that such information/studies are out there simply to offend people who FF. I have seen it time and time again and frankly, yes it does upset me. Its like we are not allowed to choose to BF based on the benefits because that is somehow an affront to those who FF. I have FF myself and to be honest I have never felt that way but a lot of people seem to have a problem.

Well aint you a saint for not feeling like that.. This thread wasnt heading in that direction so why would you even bring it up. Nobody posted saying anything along those lines until you! Im sorry but you changed this thread nobody else.
I never tell people I dont want to hear about the benefits of breastfeeding. I was going to express milk for my girls until something happened and I couldnt anymore, there was no support for me and I felt pressured into changing to formula but I did and I am happy because my girls are healthy and they are here and they are happy and thats all that counts!!!! If you have breastfed you should feel proud. It is an achievement, its not for everyone though so those who FF shouldnt feel bad.

 

[Tasha]

No one has said dont give pregnant women/bf's information or to talk about the benefits nor has any one suggested that HCP's force people to BF (clearly the statistics show that that is not the case). I dont think it is wrong for people to share their experiences and say that formula feeding info wasnt shared.

I have FF and BF, and in my opinion FF there is no information during pregnancy or after, BF there is information avaliable during pregnancy and after, but not the actual physical support that is needed.

I wonder can the people in Canada tell me is the support from healthcare professional amazing, for rates to be so high or is it a culture thing and the fact because so many do BF you can turn to practically any mother and ask for help/support?

 

[booflebump]

Going to move this over to the debates section, where I hope the discussion can be continued on in a sensible fashion!

 

[Laura2919]

I had a terrible labour and a terrible birth, I was put to sleep and lost 2.5 ltrs of blood. Whether you had an epidural or did it pain free, whether you had a home birth or a hospital birth, whether you had a natural delivery or a c section. YOU HAD A BABY, You should be proud.
Do you know what I have learned, one of my best friends from school lost her baby son at 3 weeks old. She never got to bring him home from hospital. She had the decision to keep him alive or to turn off the ventilator that was keeping him alive! We are sitting here arguing over I am proud of this and I am proud of that and I bet all she wants is her baby back in her arms.
Who cares what you did, who cares what I did. Everyone should be proud we brought life into this world and thats whats important, I dont care if people think I am a bad mum for bottle feeding I dont care if people feel sorry for me because I didnt experience a birth. Not everyone is perfect and there is someone out there who is feeling terrible asking why her little boy was chosen to leave this earth at just 3 weeks, a baby who never met half of his family because he was so poorly, a baby who was born at 39 weeks and no scans picked up any problems!

What I am sick of is people automatically thinking they have the right to be sarcastic because a FF might take offence. If you dont wanna see it dont post in the thread but dont prevent someone saying their bit because you dont want it to be said!

 

[summer rain]

Oh musn't say that it will offend some FF, because saying BF has any benefits=saying formula is poison. I do suspect some of those on this thread who want information and pros and cons on formula and BF both to be given would like some of the facts about BF regarding benefits to be downplayed a bit because they are after all, pushing women to BF and not allowing them to make an informed choice.

Seriously??? the only thing on this thread that offends me is you!! Your posts always without fail are there to cause an argument.

Not one person that I have seen has said that there shouldnt be leaflets, booklets and advice for breastfeeding we just think the same should be for fomula feeding too. Nobody has said one should be pushed into the corner.


Why exactly do you insist on causing an argument???

sorry but I am not, but I am afraid this is what it always boils down to. Whenever BFers on baby and bump even mention they chose to BF for whatever reason with regard to reduced risks they get accused of claiming that FF is poision and that FF definitely causes cancer, certain illnesses etc etc and that such information/studies are out there simply to offend people who FF. I have seen it time and time again and frankly, yes it does upset me. Its like we are not allowed to choose to BF based on the benefits because that is somehow an affront to those who FF. I have FF myself and to be honest I have never felt that way but a lot of people seem to have a problem.

Well aint you a saint for not feeling like that.. This thread wasnt heading in that direction so why would you even bring it up. Nobody posted saying anything along those lines until you! Im sorry but you changed this thread nobody else.
I never tell people I dont want to hear about the benefits of breastfeeding. I was going to express milk for my girls until something happened and I couldnt anymore, there was no support for me and I felt pressured into changing to formula but I did and I am happy because my girls are healthy and they are here and they are happy and thats all that counts!!!! If you have breastfed you should feel proud. It is an achievement, its not for everyone though so those who FF shouldnt feel bad.

I'm not a saint nor did I claim to be, nor am I actually proud to BF, my milestone badge is more like an incentive for me to keep going than to say 'hey world I BF for so many months'. Really I chose it for certain medical benefits but more so because severe allergies and bowel disorders (caused by said allergies) run in my family and my only other option would have been neocate or nutramigen AA; but getting that prescribed is like getting blood out of a stone and I didn't want my son to be harmed in the meantime, disclaimer I am talking about my kids in particular because of the allergies-not saying having cows milk formula in the meantime would harm most babies. I even looked into FF from birth this time because of my horrible experiences last time, but realised that it wasn't so straightforward and they would be very unlikely to prescribe a suitable formula from birth as a preventative measire. Maybe I should just shut up now because I am maybe dragging stuff from other threads into this.

 

[Tasha]

I hate this 'us and them' thing that sometimes goes on here. Every mother deserves to feel like they were given all the information and support they need, regardless of what choices they make. We all make the right choices for us and our baby, cos that is what you can change and that is what counts.

Laura, you are right your friend would give anything for her baby to be here

 

[Laura2919]

I hate this 'us and them' thing that sometimes goes on here. Every mother deserves to feel like they were given all the information and support they need, regardless of what choices they make. We all make the right choices for us and our baby, cos that is what you can change and that is what counts.

Laura, you are right your friend would give anything for her baby to be here

I agree!

 

[indy and lara]

And here clearly demonstrates where a comma would have stopped the subsequent argument.

IME here in London clearly Camden PCT are pro-FF (even though they try and say that they are pro-breast).

Some people read this to mean that in ALL of London this was the case.

Pretty sure the poster was saying that when you look at London, Camden are certainly doing this.

IME here in London, clearly Camden PCT are pro-FF (even though they try and say that they are pro-breast).

Way back to the OP. It is pretty clear that there is no uniform NHS policy for discussing FF, whether there is supposed to be or not. I wondered if we were different because we were in Scotland and Health is a devolved power? But reading on it does not seem the case. There are lots of health boards/PCTs who give out information and advice freely about FF.

Would be nice for one day these threads not to fall into the same old dull argument. Mind you, so would winning Euromillions be nice. I wonder which is more likely?

 

[Tasha]

Hehehe, L I felt the teacher in you come out then

You know I think it is all about the person reading the guidelines who then goes on to make the policies. You see how Laura read one thing, Summer rain a different thing, just goes to show easy it is for someone to misunderstand/misinterpret the written word. That is what happened at some hospitals because NICE guidelines about stillbirth werent very clear and some hospitals read it as that they were not to offer parents to see there babies, when in fact they meant dont push it over and over. All sorted now, but again shows what consequences the way someone reads guidelines can have.

 

[JASMAK]

I agree you should be proud, breastfeeding is an achievement but I dont like it when people try to put words into peoples mouths! I posted why my girls were formula fed, it wasnt a choice I wanted to make it was taken out of my hands. Nobody is saying people are forcing us to BF and we like hearing all the good breastfeeding does.

Nobody on here has said breastfeeding should be swept under the carpet we have said that parents should be given a choice and there should be information available for both exactly the same.

but that same statement is true for bfers too...i say bfing is best and some take that as formula is poison and they made a bad decision. i never look 'down' on someone who ff, but i do sometimes wonder if they would have tried/continued if they had more support...which is why *I* do not think formula info should be handed out unless it is req'd...this does not mean i think those who ff are 'bad' parents which is often assumed when a bfers says that.

 

[Tasha]

It hadnt happened on this thread though, and so should be kept seperate cos otherwise people do start getting upset/defensive

 

[xolily]

i think most FF's get defensive without BF's doing or saying much wrong tbh they'll say they FF then proceed to justify why they do it.. who cares!

 

[vaniilla]

I think it'll be a great day when health visitors and mw's back up pro bf with some actual support, I found that at the nhs antenatal classes we went to the message was - expressing bad, combi feeding bad, formula feeding - bad and will make your baby fussy with food, when I asked about problems you might have or having to return to school I got nothing but "there won't be anything wrong" and ignored everything else I asked about latching/flat nipples nobody pointed out any problems or solutions, they're so eager to look like they're pro bf but not actually giving out any substantial info or support or at least over here.

there is no denying bf is better and as health professionals they must make sure that women understand the benefits of bf and why it is better, but also what can go wrong and to make them feel that they're not alone if they have problems or decide to switch to ff and if thats the choice they make to talk through it with them and make sure they feel confident in their choice whether it be bf or ff, being a parent is scary enough but we should at least feel like we know all the facts and have real help available if we need it.