Refreshing talk today with HV's regarding BFing

[Tasha]

IME here in London clearly Camden PCT are pro-FF (even though they try and say that they are pro-breast).

Where did discoclare say ALL London NHS trusts are pro-FF? She didn't, she said in London she knows that Camden are pro-FF-big difference. Some NHS trusts in London are very pro-FF to the extent they do not really support BF just because you haven't had this experience doesn't mean its not true. In this area most HVs, MWs and GPs are very biased towards formula as well. I have heard similar about Homerton (not sure of the trust) from some ladies but others say they have had a completely different experience more recently, maybe they have improved now.

No one said it wasnt true, we just stated our experiences.

 

[JASMAK]

For those who were talking about the percentages of breastfeeding mothers...in Canada the average is 87%, and in my specific province (British Columbia) that number is actually higher...94.8%...so here it is pretty abnormal to see a mother bottle feed.. No one bats an eye if you breastfeed. I breastfeed my one year old...no one kicks up a fuss...ever. Except my FIL who is from rural Alberta. This is another reason why I am so adament that formula info isn't given out...it would be strange based on our statistics...but, then it makes me wonder...if we don't get formula info and breastfeeding help is expected, encouraged, and there is LOTS of free help...and the same happened in the UK...wouldn't the breastfeeding rates go up?? Isn't that a good thing? I find it interesting that the rates are so low in the UK, and I am thinking that there is inadequate information on breastfeeding and support...not the other way around??? Perhaps this change is a good thing.

 

[Tasha]

No there is a lack of information on FF as you can see from many peoples experiences on here. With BF I honestly think their is (at least in my area), in general enough BF information when you are pregnant but there isnt enough support when you have had your baby, IMO with BF you can read lots and lots of information but when the time comes if the support isnt there to show you how to latch etc, then it can make it really difficult, impossible in some cases. I think that hospitals are becoming more aware of this and so lots are getting trained BF peer support volunteers, which is great because I actually saw (they wouldnt let her close her curtain) one woman have her breast and baby man handled less than 24 hours ours after birth, because the mw's said baby was now starving so hopefully BF peer support workers, know a little more and also better ways to support.

 

[Laura2919]

IME here in London clearly Camden PCT are pro-FF (even though they try and say that they are pro-breast).

Where did discoclare say ALL London NHS trusts are pro-FF? She didn't, she said in London she knows that Camden are pro-FF-big difference. Some NHS trusts in London are very pro-FF to the extent they do not really support BF just because you haven't had this experience doesn't mean its not true. In this area most HVs, MWs and GPs are very biased towards formula as well. I have heard similar about Homerton (not sure of the trust) from some ladies but others say they have had a completely different experience more recently, maybe they have improved now.

Not one person said it wasnt true I just said not London as a whole. I wouldnt say 'here in london clearly camden, LONDON is a big place. My hospital wasnt pro FF! In fact none of the hospitals I attended was pro FF
so she should have just said here in Camden on here in London!

 

[Blah11]

I agree Tasha. I think the information is there in black and white but support is still lacking (very badly in some areas) and I think BF is one of those things you need someone telling you its okay and that what theyre going through is normal.

 

[Snuffy]

Lol you can't just sweep FF info under the carpet and hopes it goes away. Some people need that information, some choose it, but feeding support should be available to everyone who needs it, whatever method you use.

 

[teal]

I agree Tasha. I think the information is there in black and white but support is still lacking (very badly in some areas) and I think BF is one of those things you need someone telling you its okay and that what theyre going through is normal.

Completely agree about needing someone to tell you it's ok and normal. I found the reassurance from midwives at our cmu made all the difference in the early weeks xx

 

[summer rain]

IME here in London clearly Camden PCT are pro-FF (even though they try and say that they are pro-breast).

Where did discoclare say ALL London NHS trusts are pro-FF? She didn't, she said in London she knows that Camden are pro-FF-big difference. Some NHS trusts in London are very pro-FF to the extent they do not really support BF just because you haven't had this experience doesn't mean its not true. In this area most HVs, MWs and GPs are very biased towards formula as well. I have heard similar about Homerton (not sure of the trust) from some ladies but others say they have had a completely different experience more recently, maybe they have improved now.

Not one person said it wasnt true I just said not London as a whole. I wouldnt say 'here in london clearly camden, LONDON is a big place. My hospital wasnt pro FF! In fact none of the hospitals I attended was pro FF
so she should have just said here in Camden on here in London!

All she said was out of all the London PCTs she knows from personal experience Camden is pro-FF: nothing else, I believe she only mentioned Camden being 'here in London' because those outside of London may not have heard of the area? I don't know why people are getting so het up by ladies saying that in their area (be it in London or anywhere else) that FF info is not only given out, but in some cases pushed onto mothers...?

 

[summer rain]

btw here is just one of several leaflets/handouts UNICEF baby friendly initative produce on bottle feeding/infant formula (designed to be given out in baby friendly hospitals though my local hospitals are not 'baby friendly' certified and they are given out there also)

https://live.unicef.org.uk/Documents/Baby_Friendly/Leaflets/4/guide_infant_formula.pdf

It tells you about pretty much all formula types and has a lot of other info as well. They also produce info on how to safely make up feeds. If individual hospitals/NHS trusts are not handing out this information thats their individual misinterpretation of guidelines and not a broader policy.

 

[Tasha]

summer rain, I get what you are saying it is the interpretation because guidelines are not always as clear as they could be but clearly this is a problem across many hospitals. I talk about four different hospitals, all within different trust, Laura talks about a few more, and there are other people who have talked about similar experiences. So perhaps the guidelines need making clearer.

 

[summer rain]

For sure, what I am saying is this isn't NHS policy, individual councils/NHS trusts make up their own often unreasonable guidelines on various issues all the time often with no indication from central government. I think there has to be a happy medium, if some PCTs are actively promoting formula and not giving any BF support (which is the case with some), and some are actively promoting BF (but not necessarily giving correct support) and denying FF parents any information about FF those are two extremes that are not good and there is clearly a lack of communication somewhere.

 

[LoraLoo]

What I mean is studies show that back sleeping reduces SIDs whereas FF does not increase that risk?

Sorry, just catching up, but just thought I was point out that yes, Breastfeeding does reduce the risk of SIDS

 

[Laura2919]

IME here in London clearly Camden PCT are pro-FF (even though they try and say that they are pro-breast).

Where did discoclare say ALL London NHS trusts are pro-FF? She didn't, she said in London she knows that Camden are pro-FF-big difference. Some NHS trusts in London are very pro-FF to the extent they do not really support BF just because you haven't had this experience doesn't mean its not true. In this area most HVs, MWs and GPs are very biased towards formula as well. I have heard similar about Homerton (not sure of the trust) from some ladies but others say they have had a completely different experience more recently, maybe they have improved now.

Not one person said it wasnt true I just said not London as a whole. I wouldnt say 'here in london clearly camden, LONDON is a big place. My hospital wasnt pro FF! In fact none of the hospitals I attended was pro FF
so she should have just said here in Camden on here in London!

All she said was out of all the London PCTs she knows from personal experience Camden is pro-FF: nothing else, I believe she only mentioned Camden being 'here in London' because those outside of London may not have heard of the area? I don't know why people are getting so het up by ladies saying that in their area (be it in London or anywhere else) that FF info is not only given out, but in some cases pushed onto mothers...?

Whatever You say you dont know why people are getting het up yet you were claiming we didnt believe that her trust didnt discuss BF.

Her post came across like she was talking about London because she didnt post and say 'here in Camden in London she said here in London clearly camden' So I took that has Here in London especially Camden so she was talking about London IMO. Maybe not for you but it did for me!

 

[summer rain]

You're the only one who read it like that, sorry.

 

[JASMAK]

I also want to point out, breastfeeding decreases the chance of breast cancer.

 

[Blah11]

^ and uterine and ovarian cancer too & oesteoperosis.

 

[JASMAK]

really osteoporosis....really? I didn't know that!

 

[summer rain]

Oh musn't say that! Don't you know it will offend some FFers (not all, don't get me wrong), because saying BF has any benefits=saying formula is poison. I mean thats a natural conclusion to make, BF reduces the risk of cot death? Well then that must be saying FF guarantees it. BF reduces the risk of certain cancers; well if you FF for long enough 'those BFers' are saying you'll definitely get cancer and the formula caused it. I do suspect some of those on this thread who want information and pros and cons on formula and BF both to be given would like some of the facts about BF regarding benefits to be downplayed a bit because they are after all, pushing women to BF and not allowing them to make an informed choice.

 

[Laura2919]

Oh musn't say that it will offend some FF, because saying BF has any benefits=saying formula is poison. I do suspect some of those on this thread who want information and pros and cons on formula and BF both to be given would like some of the facts about BF regarding benefits to be downplayed a bit because they are after all, pushing women to BF and not allowing them to make an informed choice.

Seriously??? the only thing on this thread that offends me is you!! Your posts always without fail are there to cause an argument.

Not one person that I have seen has said that there shouldnt be leaflets, booklets and advice for breastfeeding we just think the same should be for fomula feeding too. Nobody has said one should be pushed into the corner.


Why exactly do you insist on causing an argument???

 

[JASMAK]

I do feel sometimes that if I talk about something good about breastfeeding, it is shot down...and that's too bad. It's an accomplishment for me too, and I am proud of it...just like a homebirth or 'natural' birth is an accomplishment for others. I would never make someone feel bad for their homebirth, just because I had to have all c-sections...so, I don't know why me talking about the benefits and joy of breastfeeding is taken so personally sometimes. It is very dissapointing...it's not a competition, but it just feels at times, that if a breastfeeding woman has a ticker (which is why I don't have the breastfeeding tickers) or talks about it...it somehow offends someone. If I see a homebirth badge, I don't get upset or offended...I think "great, good for them"...sometiems I wish I could too...but, I never feel that people shouldn't talk about it??? Am I crazy to think it is similar???