Should we bring back the death penalty?

[RoseKitten]

It's not a debate if people continually put down the views of those who believe in the death penalty. It goes both ways.

I don't feel put down... I like polite debates. This has been very refreshing from FB where it seems it's all "you're wrong and a bad person and you should feel bad! blah blah blah I'm not listening!"

 

[louandivy]

You've pretty much summed all my thoughts up there Emma! How is it that those in power suddenly have the magical ability to decide who deserves to be killed? How can anyone ever hold such authority?

Many throughout history have at the time had the authority to decide who deserves to be killed, only for them to eventually lose their power and the deaths be ruled as illegal. The law should reflect morality, not give us morals - and if our morals dictate that killing is wrong, the law should reflect that, not support the legal killing of anyone.

Of course some may feel that criminals are deserving of death so it is different, but I don't feel that anyone is ever deserving of death, regardless of their crime.

I can see your point, and in most cases I agree. The death penalty isn't something to be taken lightly, but monsters IMO, aren't people anymore, but rabid animals. When there is, without a doubt proof, that someone has raped, murdered, molested others... I just, I don't find that behavior to be human, because humans have some basic moral compass.

I suppose it depends heavily on how you view murderers and serial rapists. To me, to commit those crimes a person must be mentally ill on some level, because normal functioning, mentally well people possess empathy. Although regardless I still don't think that anyone holds the authority to take another life, no matter how justified we think it is. You could say that a religious terrorist with extreme faith blindly believes that what they are doing is acceptable but does that make it right?

 

[xemmax]

You've pretty much summed all my thoughts up there Emma! How is it that those in power suddenly have the magical ability to decide who deserves to be killed? How can anyone ever hold such authority?

Many throughout history have at the time had the authority to decide who deserves to be killed, only for them to eventually lose their power and the deaths be ruled as illegal. The law should reflect morality, not give us morals - and if our morals dictate that killing is wrong, the law should reflect that, not support the legal killing of anyone.

Of course some may feel that criminals are deserving of death so it is different, but I don't feel that anyone is ever deserving of death, regardless of their crime.

I can see your point, and in most cases I agree. The death penalty isn't something to be taken lightly, but monsters IMO, aren't people anymore, but rabid animals. When there is, without a doubt proof, that someone has raped, murdered, molested others... I just, I don't find that behavior to be human, because humans have some basic moral compass.

Sometimes people do things which are so abhorrent it is disturbing to relate to them as human beings, I do recognise that. I have read stories of people that make my blood run cold, I am as disgusted as the next person when I read about a murder, a rape or a violent crime, but still I don't feel that by sentencing them to death it serves as beneficial to anyone at all. I feel it is detrimental to society as a whole to use capital punishment. I feel it's a slippery slope, and when there are conditions on our right to exist on this earth, imposed by man himself, I question where it could end. We become desensitised easily. When you deem it acceptable to kill one, tomorrow it may be someone else.

For me, there are fundamental rights which should not be conditioned, because by protecting the right for a monster to live, it makes the right to life for law abiding people untouchable.

 

[RoseKitten]

You've pretty much summed all my thoughts up there Emma! How is it that those in power suddenly have the magical ability to decide who deserves to be killed? How can anyone ever hold such authority?

Many throughout history have at the time had the authority to decide who deserves to be killed, only for them to eventually lose their power and the deaths be ruled as illegal. The law should reflect morality, not give us morals - and if our morals dictate that killing is wrong, the law should reflect that, not support the legal killing of anyone.

Of course some may feel that criminals are deserving of death so it is different, but I don't feel that anyone is ever deserving of death, regardless of their crime.

I can see your point, and in most cases I agree. The death penalty isn't something to be taken lightly, but monsters IMO, aren't people anymore, but rabid animals. When there is, without a doubt proof, that someone has raped, murdered, molested others... I just, I don't find that behavior to be human, because humans have some basic moral compass.

I suppose it depends heavily on how you view murderers and serial rapists. To me, to commit those crimes a person must be mentally ill on some level, because normal functioning, mentally well people possess empathy. Although regardless I still don't think that anyone holds the authority to take another life, no matter how justified we think it is. You could say that a religious terrorist with extreme faith blindly believes that what they are doing is acceptable but does that make it right?

I think some people are just broken. Both my husband and myself showed sociopath tendencies when we were kids, but at some point realized that we did care about others and corrected ourselves. I can see how if we didn't have the growing environments we did that one or both of us could have turned out to be monsters. I don't consider cold rational murder/rape/etc is a mental illness. If anything, if they used it differently (some do) it could be a great advantage to not be hindered by emotions. As far as religious terrorists- no, I don't think that makes it right because if the reason you are taking a life is because they "believe wrong" then that's not really the same boat as killing someone because you think it's fun to watch them bleed and squirm.

 

[RoseKitten]

You've pretty much summed all my thoughts up there Emma! How is it that those in power suddenly have the magical ability to decide who deserves to be killed? How can anyone ever hold such authority?

Many throughout history have at the time had the authority to decide who deserves to be killed, only for them to eventually lose their power and the deaths be ruled as illegal. The law should reflect morality, not give us morals - and if our morals dictate that killing is wrong, the law should reflect that, not support the legal killing of anyone.

Of course some may feel that criminals are deserving of death so it is different, but I don't feel that anyone is ever deserving of death, regardless of their crime.

I can see your point, and in most cases I agree. The death penalty isn't something to be taken lightly, but monsters IMO, aren't people anymore, but rabid animals. When there is, without a doubt proof, that someone has raped, murdered, molested others... I just, I don't find that behavior to be human, because humans have some basic moral compass.

Sometimes people do things which are so abhorrent it is disturbing to relate to them as human beings, I do recognise that. I have read stories of people that make my blood run cold, I am as disgusted as the next person when I read about a murder, a rape or a violent crime, but still I don't feel that by sentencing them to death it serves as beneficial to anyone at all. I feel it is detrimental to society as a whole to use capital punishment. I feel it's a slippery slope, and when there are conditions on our right to exist on this earth, imposed by man himself, I question where it could end. We become desensitised easily. When you deem it acceptable to kill one, tomorrow it may be someone else.

For me, there are fundamental rights which should not be conditioned, because by protecting the right for a monster to live, it makes the right to life for law abiding people untouchable.

I agree completely. This isn't something I consider lightly. I just can't see keeping someone in prison for decades- feeding them, caring for them, etc. when that money could instead be used to help victims of these crimes recover.

 

[JASMAK]

actually no - thats just twisting my post - its not disgusting at all - you can think of it and judge it .....if your child or family member was killed but not if your child was a killer??????............my point was to make you try and see it from a different point of view!!!!!! - unconditional love - killers intentionally, unintentionally, one murder or more than one murder - they are still someones children ...how would you feel?

instead of answering a simple question you twist it and make out its disgusting to even think that??? why???? is it far easier to be pro-death penalty as long as you do not view it from a personal point of view???? easier to live with yourself?

First of all, I am not 'pro death penalty' and second, I don't think anyone should have to imagine their child be a killer to have a point of view. Thats not twisting your words...that IS your words! Most serial murderers don't come from normal happy homes. And...I am still not 'prodeath penalty'....I have stated through out the whole debate that I am on the fence. There is no debate in our country...there is no death penalty. It is ONLY for complete monsters that I might not be opposed, but there is still no death penalty in Canada...and I think its ridiculous to ask anyone to imagine their child as a murderer. Or sexual predator. Or even a bully for that matter. That makes me want to vomit.

 

[JASMAK]

So serial murders shouldnt be put to death because we should picture our own sweet childrens faces at their ugly hands first. Thats disgusting.

It isn't disgusting, it is unfortunately a possibility. All murderers were children once and all have mothers and fathers. We need to stop talking about them as an alien race and deciding that it is acceptable to do things to them which would not be acceptable to do to anyone else. Of course they have done despicable things, but they are human, nothing more nor less, and they should have a right to life if nothing else.

Of course if you feel that it is acceptable to treat serious criminals in this way then you have to accept the fact that should your child commit similar crimes, they would receive the punishment.

Wow. You are unbelievable. Maybe its a possibility for YOUR child, but, not mine. Sorry.


And again...not anywhere did I say I was pro death penalty. In fact, there was a question earlier back that said if you could choose life without parole or death..and I said life without parole. I don't have to imagine anyones child to be a sicko to know that I am against the death penalty. People who are pro death penalty are stupid idiots...they know they are people...they just believe they should pay the ultimate price for their crimes...as their victims did. Doesn't make them...or their children...monsters.

 

[Tasha]

First of all, I am not 'pro death penalty' and second, I don't think anyone should have to imagine their child be a killer to have a point of view. Thats not twisting your words...that IS your words! Most serial murderers don't come from normal happy homes. And...I am still not 'prodeath penalty'....I have stated through out the whole debate that I am on the fence. There is no debate in our country...there is no death penalty. It is ONLY for complete monsters that I might not be opposed, but there is still no death penalty in Canada...and I think its ridiculous to ask anyone to imagine their child as a murderer. Or sexual predator. Or even a bully for that matter. That makes me want to vomit.

smelly (I *still* feel wrong writing that) made a valid point, and asked for peoples opinions on it. Of course you dont have to imagine if you dont want to but to say her point is ridiculous isnt very fair.

 

[Tasha]

Wow. You are unbelievable. Maybe its a possibility for YOUR chold, but, not mine. Sorry.

How can you possibly know that though? All murderers and rapists have been someone's sweet, innocent child at some point.

 

[xemmax]

So serial murders shouldnt be put to death because we should picture our own sweet childrens faces at their ugly hands first. Thats disgusting.

It isn't disgusting, it is unfortunately a possibility. All murderers were children once and all have mothers and fathers. We need to stop talking about them as an alien race and deciding that it is acceptable to do things to them which would not be acceptable to do to anyone else. Of course they have done despicable things, but they are human, nothing more nor less, and they should have a right to life if nothing else.

Of course if you feel that it is acceptable to treat serious criminals in this way then you have to accept the fact that should your child commit similar crimes, they would receive the punishment.

Wow. You are unbelievable. Maybe its a possibility for YOUR chold, but, not mine. Sorry.

Why am I unbelievable?

It's a possibility for any child. No one knows what the future holds.

 

[meli1981]

it is kinda sick imo to imagine my kids as killers. i just cant do it. i believe killers show tendancies as a child, ir theyre even born that way, and its the parents respinsiblity to recognize these signs and get help for their children. it is my responsibility as a parent to keep my children healthy, mentally as well as physically. that is why i know my children will 100% not be criminals. period!

 

[xemmax]

So serial murders shouldnt be put to death because we should picture our own sweet childrens faces at their ugly hands first. Thats disgusting.

It isn't disgusting, it is unfortunately a possibility. All murderers were children once and all have mothers and fathers. We need to stop talking about them as an alien race and deciding that it is acceptable to do things to them which would not be acceptable to do to anyone else. Of course they have done despicable things, but they are human, nothing more nor less, and they should have a right to life if nothing else.

Of course if you feel that it is acceptable to treat serious criminals in this way then you have to accept the fact that should your child commit similar crimes, they would receive the punishment.

Wow. You are unbelievable. Maybe its a possibility for YOUR child, but, not mine. Sorry.


And again...not anywhere did I say I was pro death penalty. In fact, there was a question earlier back that said if you could choose life without parole or death..and I said life without parole. I don't have to imagine anyones child to be a sicko to know that I am against the death penalty. People who are pro death penalty are stupid idiots...they know they are people...they just believe they should pay the ultimate price for their crimes...as their victims did. Doesn't make them...or their children...monsters.

No one call them stupid idiots, you're the only one making personal judgements about posters on this thread.

No one said they or their children are monsters... I really don't think you are getting the point. The point is ANYONE's child can become a criminal, you have no idea of knowing. To say that there is no way your child will become one is basically saying that as a parent you can control that - so are the parents of serial killers etc to blame? Did they create the monster?

 

[meli1981]

So serial murders shouldnt be put to death because we should picture our own sweet childrens faces at their ugly hands first. Thats disgusting.

It isn't disgusting, it is unfortunately a possibility. All murderers were children once and all have mothers and fathers. We need to stop talking about them as an alien race and deciding that it is acceptable to do things to them which would not be acceptable to do to anyone else. Of course they have done despicable things, but they are human, nothing more nor less, and they should have a right to life if nothing else.

Of course if you feel that it is acceptable to treat serious criminals in this way then you have to accept the fact that should your child commit similar crimes, they would receive the punishment.

Wow. You atre unbelievable. Maybe its a possibility for YOUR child, but, not mine. Sorry.


And again...not anywhere did I say I was pro death penalty. In fact, there was a question earlier back that said if you could choose life without parole or death..and I said life without parole. I don't have to imagine anyones child to be a sicko to know that I am against the death penalty. People who are pro death penalty are stupid idiots...they know they are people...they just believe they should pay the ultimate price for their crimes...as their victims did. Doesn't make them...or their children...monsters.

No one call them stupid idiots, you're the only one making personal judgements about posters on this thread.

No one said they or their children are monsters... I really don't think you are getting the point. The point is ANYONE's child can become a criminal, you have no idea of knowing. To say that there is no way your child will become one is basically saying that as a parent you can control that - so are the parents of serial killers etc to blame? Did they create the monster?

yes i believe the parents are to blame, they should recognize the signs in their child and get them help. IF (which wont happen) my children became criminals i woyld blame myself and feel like ide let them down,

 

[xemmax]

it is kinda sick imo to imagine my kids as killers. i just cant do it. i believe killers show tendancies as a child, ir theyre even born that way, and its the parents respinsiblity to recognize these signs and get help for their children. it is my responsibility as a parent to keep my children healthy, mentally as well as physically. that is why i know my children will 100% not be criminals. period!

That's just simply not true. Yes many sociopaths or serial killers can show 'signs' in childhood but even these are often only of significance in hindsight. People are not necessarily 'born that way', sometimes actions are a product of their experiences, sometimes they come from nowhere. There is no single psychological profile for serious criminals, otherwise they could be identified as children and treated before they committed crimes.

 

[smelly07]

jasmak i'm sorry but i totally disagree with you - how is that any different then imagining the situation from the point of view if anyone were to hurt your child or family?

if you cant understand the point i was trying to make then there isnt much i can do about it and thats your issue not mine.


and tasha - honestly dont lol xxx

edit
wow meli .....it sick to imagine your child as a killer but not to imagine your child being killed?

edit again

i have to say why is it .......that its okay for people to say 'what if your child/family member was killed' without anyone getting up in arms......but when i turned that round to 'what if your child/family member was the killer' ........it caused an uproar??? ................ i dont understand!!!

 

[meli1981]

it is kinda sick imo to imagine my kids as killers. i just cant do it. i believe killers show tendancies as a child, ir theyre even born that way, and its the parents respinsiblity to recognize these signs and get help for their children. it is my responsibility as a parent to keep my children healthy, mentally as well as physically. that is why i know my children will 100% not be criminals. period!

That's just simply not true. Yes many sociopaths or serial killers can show 'signs' in childhood but even these are often only of significance in hindsight. People are not necessarily 'born that way', sometimes actions are a product of their experiences, sometimes they come from nowhere. There is no single psychological profile for serious criminals, otherwise they could be identified as children and treated before they committed crimes.

how do you really? and alot if parents might not either recognize or bring their children in to get help. maybe they feel like their kids will be taken away from them

 

[xemmax]

it is kinda sick imo to imagine my kids as killers. i just cant do it. i believe killers show tendancies as a child, ir theyre even born that way, and its the parents respinsiblity to recognize these signs and get help for their children. it is my responsibility as a parent to keep my children healthy, mentally as well as physically. that is why i know my children will 100% not be criminals. period!

That's just simply not true. Yes many sociopaths or serial killers can show 'signs' in childhood but even these are often only of significance in hindsight. People are not necessarily 'born that way', sometimes actions are a product of their experiences, sometimes they come from nowhere. There is no single psychological profile for serious criminals, otherwise they could be identified as children and treated before they committed crimes.

how do you really? and alot if parents might not either recognize or bring their children in to get help. maybe they feel like their kids will be taken away from them

I'm sorry but I think it's unrealistic to assume that all serious criminals have the same underlying reasons for committing crime, and incredibly naive to believe that a parent could influence a child enough to 'correct' them if that were true. The view is just far too simplistic and doesn't take into consideration any environmental influences.

 

[meli1981]

thanks for calling me naive and simplistic we live in a small town, not much crime, my husband and i dont do drugs, drink (besides the occational beer) or even smoke, we are a middle class household with everything my kids could possibly want or need, and we plan on staying married long term. as far as environmental circumstances go, i think we will all be ok! so now maybe you can see why my point of view is so "simplistic"

 

[JASMAK]

jasmak i'm sorry but i totally disagree with you - how is that any different then imagining the situation from the point of view if anyone were to hurt your child or family?

if you cant understand the point i was trying to make then there isnt much i can do about it and thats your issue not mine.


and tasha - honestly dont lol xxx

edit
wow meli .....it sick to imagine your child as a killer but not to imagine your child being killed?

I guess I have issues then as I can't imagine my children as murderers. That's ok by me.

I don't appreciate all the little digs and this debate has gotten really immature with little put downs and digs by people who are so-called trying to get a point across. Bullying people into your point of view is not really a fair way to debate. Saying someone has issues because they don't want to imagine, nor should they have to imagine, their child as a serial murderer or rapist, is bullying.

Actually, yes, most people who are serial murderers DO show signs and have serious mental health issues, abandonment, neglect, and abuse as children. Their parent/s are usually absent, criminals, drug addicts, or also have mental health issues. I know this because I took Criminology, and I currently work in the Canadian legal system.

 

[JASMAK]

https://www.drphil.com/articles/article/188

https://www.crimemuseum.org/library/serialKillers/earlySignsOfSerialKillers.html