Should we bring back the death penalty?

[JASMAK]

Here...let me write it out for you....


Crime Library » Murder
Early Signs Of Serial Killers


Extreme anti social behavior is one possible indication that an individual may have a problem, but it is by no means definitive. The type of person who is most likely to develop into a serial killer is one who suffers from psychopathy, which involves a large tendency towards antisocial behavior. It's important to remember that some children develop socially at a slower level than others, so this is just a small sign to watch out for. A child who changes from being very sociable to preferring isolation should warrant even more attention.

Young people who develop a serious tendency towards voyeurism may be displaying an early indication of psychopathic tendencies. Serial killers often seek to have complete control over another human being, and watching them in private settings without their knowledge allows some people to feel a sense of dominance. This is a trait many serial killers share from an early age.

One of the most common warning signs that potential serial killers display is a love of setting fires. While it may be common for young people to enjoy the site of a fire, a psychopath's interest borders on that of being a potential arsonist. They will set anything they can on fire just to destroy it.

The most noticeable early indicator to watch out for is when young people take pleasure in harming animals. They may provoke, torture or even kill cats, dogs and other pets. Even after seeing the results of their actions, the person will show no form of regret or morose. Serial killers generally seek control over the life of another, and at a younger age a small animal is the only type of creature they will be able to fully dominate. Any adolescent who displays this activity is an extreme risk of developing into an adult that could willingly hurt and kill human beings.

It's probably best if we just don't respond to each other anymore as I'm tiring of repeating my points because you refuse to consider them. I have already stated my view on this (which does not dispute it), so if you're at all interested please re-read my past posts, if not, please stop responding to me without acknowledging the point of my post.

This is a great debate and I'd hate for it to end because of this repetitive tit for tat.

If you dont want to post anymore, just dont... We dont need to hear a story about it.

This is really rude. There was no need for that response, Emma was just explaining herself notvtelling a story.

You know, usually I would never say that, and I agree it was rude, but so is telling me that I shouldn't respond unless I agree with her?! And, she keeps saying I have 'an opposing view'...which, actually, I do not...and it is seriously peeing me off. We both disagree with CP. i think its great that she has friends on here who support her, but this isnt a popularity contest. This is just a debate, which she is taking personally because I dont agree with something she has said and she had a whine about it. Further, someone is rude to me, which I believe she was, then I think most people tend to get their backs up, as I did. She has told me off several times in this thread, actually. If you have an issue with me...then why dont you PM instead of creating more drama. I am trying to have a debate...looking at both sides, which she says I am not, but if I wasn't why would I be providing info for both sides?? I am just not agreein with HER. This isnt high school...we dont need to herd up our friend forces here and launch an attack.

 

[meli1981]

people are going to be to scared to state their opinion on this thread! you say youre in favor of the death penalty, you get ripped to shreads! i think its gotten a bit to personal though, lets just say im not sick fir imagining my child getting hurt, and youre not sick for suggesting my children could be murderers (which they never will be!)

 

[JASMAK]

I feel like I said my points anyways...so since I am feeling bullied, I will just leave this one...then you all can just agree with yourselves and listen to your own opinions.

 

[Tasha]

Here...let me write it out for you....


Crime Library » Murder
Early Signs Of Serial Killers


Extreme anti social behavior is one possible indication that an individual may have a problem, but it is by no means definitive. The type of person who is most likely to develop into a serial killer is one who suffers from psychopathy, which involves a large tendency towards antisocial behavior. It's important to remember that some children develop socially at a slower level than others, so this is just a small sign to watch out for. A child who changes from being very sociable to preferring isolation should warrant even more attention.

Young people who develop a serious tendency towards voyeurism may be displaying an early indication of psychopathic tendencies. Serial killers often seek to have complete control over another human being, and watching them in private settings without their knowledge allows some people to feel a sense of dominance. This is a trait many serial killers share from an early age.

One of the most common warning signs that potential serial killers display is a love of setting fires. While it may be common for young people to enjoy the site of a fire, a psychopath's interest borders on that of being a potential arsonist. They will set anything they can on fire just to destroy it.

The most noticeable early indicator to watch out for is when young people take pleasure in harming animals. They may provoke, torture or even kill cats, dogs and other pets. Even after seeing the results of their actions, the person will show no form of regret or morose. Serial killers generally seek control over the life of another, and at a younger age a small animal is the only type of creature they will be able to fully dominate. Any adolescent who displays this activity is an extreme risk of developing into an adult that could willingly hurt and kill human beings.

It's probably best if we just don't respond to each other anymore as I'm tiring of repeating my points because you refuse to consider them. I have already stated my view on this (which does not dispute it), so if you're at all interested please re-read my past posts, if not, please stop responding to me without acknowledging the point of my post.

This is a great debate and I'd hate for it to end because of this repetitive tit for tat.

If you dont want to post anymore, just dont... We dont need to hear a story about it.

This is really rude. There was no need for that response, Emma was just explaining herself notvtelling a story.

You know, usually I would never say that, and I agree it was rude, but so is telling me that I shouldn't respond unless I agree with her?! And, she keeps saying I have 'an opposing view'...which, actually, I do not...and it is seriously peeing me off. We both disagree with CP. i think its great that she has friends on here who support her, but this isnt a popularity contest. This is just a debate, which she is taking personally because I dont agree with something she has said and she had a whine about it. Further, someone is rude to me, which I believe she was, then I think most people tend to get their backs up, as I did. She has told me off several times in this thread, actually. If you have an issue with me...then why dont you PM instead of creating more drama. I am trying to have a debate...looking at both sides, which she says I am not, but if I wasn't why would I be providing info for both sides?? I am just not agreein with HER. This isnt high school...we dont need to herd up our friend forces here and launch an attack.

What? I am not acting like I'm in high school, I saw a public post that you made and thought it was rude so responded directly to that. Do you not think it is a little hypocritical to say she pissed you off so you were rude and in the next sentence tell me if I have an issue pm you, should you not of done that then? And should you not of done the same again now to me? If I see someone who I feel is being rude then too right I will comment cos there is no need for it, it doesn't matter to me who is being rude and who is receiving the rudeness. In fact I said something to moomin earlier about people having right to question her and yet I consider moomin one of my 'friends' on here because I don't see the need to protect my friends, I just respond in a way that I feel is right.

I don't think I was rude to you in my response but accusing me of herding up and launching an attack is not something i would do. Nor was I trying to create drama.

Any way, moving on. Has anyone read about the man I mentioned before, Edward earl Johnson? To the people who agree with cp only in the worst cases would his supposed crimes (rape of an elderly woman and killing a police officer) be deemed bad enough for the death penalty? And whilst I am here, where do we draw that line in general, two murders, a rape and a murder, more? I am just curious as to what is considered 'too far' iykwim?

Sorry for typos I'm on my phone

 

[JASMAK]

Well, had a chat with hubby about this and he says I have been pretty sensitive and upset easily lately, and with reflection, this is the case here, so I am sorry for my part. I am going through alot right now, and perhaps shouldn't be on the boards right now.

 

[fantastica]

people are going to be to scared to state their opinion on this thread! you say youre in favor of the death penalty, you get ripped to shreads! i think its gotten a bit to personal though, lets just say im not sick fir imagining my child getting hurt, and youre not sick for suggesting my children could be murderers (which they never will be!)

I really don't see anyone 'ripping to shreads' people in agreement with death penalty...it's just a debate going back and forth. I still don't see how you could be certain that you're child would never commit murder though.



I just fail to see any positives...the death penalty s not a deterrent, it costs more than life in prison, it is not infallible so the wrong person could be executed, and it just perpetuates the cycle of violence. I'd be really interested to hear some points for the death penalty apart from how the victim's family feel (in some ways I would actually think a victim's family taking revenge themselves would be more acceptable than the state taking revenge for them).

 

[Natsku]

Well, had a chat with hubby about this and he says I have been pretty sensitive and upset easily lately, and with reflection, this is the case here, so I am sorry for my part. I am going through alot right now, and perhaps shouldn't be on the boards right now.

people are going to be to scared to state their opinion on this thread! you say youre in favor of the death penalty, you get ripped to shreads! i think its gotten a bit to personal though, lets just say im not sick fir imagining my child getting hurt, and youre not sick for suggesting my children could be murderers (which they never will be!)

I really don't see anyone 'ripping to shreads' people in agreement with death penalty...it's just a debate going back and forth. I still don't see how you could be certain that you're child would never commit murder though.



I just fail to see any positives...the death penalty s not a deterrent, it costs more than life in prison, it is not infallible so the wrong person could be executed, and it just perpetuates the cycle of violence. I'd be really interested to hear some points for the death penalty apart from how the victim's family feel (in some ways I would actually think a victim's family taking revenge themselves would be more acceptable than the state taking revenge for them).

I'd be interested to hear that too as all the logical arguments I can think of would argue against it.

 

[smelly07]

I wont even respond to the last few posts!


Tasha i have just googled Edward earl johnson........... i cant believe his last two weeks on death row right up to his death were filmed...?!!!

and no way do i thinks his crimes anywhere near deserved the death sentence....... i can understand why people feel they way they do about the death sentence for certain criminals - who they have no emotional attachement to - i still do not agree with it but i understand it, but i dont understand how a parent would still agree with it if it was their child ( on death row) though..... as a parent love is unconditional and it nature to want to protect your children regardless is it not?

life imprisonment should be the maximum punishment.


i am reading more on Edward earl Johnson Tash

 

[Tasha]

Well, had a chat with hubby about this and he says I have been pretty sensitive and upset easily lately, and with reflection, this is the case here, so I am sorry for my part. I am going through alot right now, and perhaps shouldn't be on the boards right now.

Thank you for the apology. And I apologise for you feeling bullied, I am certain none of us meant to make you feel that way. I hope you feel more yourself soon, and that things get better.

I wont even respond to the last few posts!


Tasha i have just googled Edward earl johnson........... i cant believe his last two weeks on death row right up to his death were filmed...?!!!

and no way do i thinks his crimes anywhere near deserved the death sentence....... i can understand why people feel they way they do about the death sentence for certain criminals - who they have no emotional attachement to - i still do not agree with it but i understand it, but i dont understand how a parent would still agree with it if it was their child ( on death row) though..... as a parent love is unconditional and it nature to want to protect your children regardless is it not?

life imprisonment should be the maximum punishment.


i am reading more on Edward earl Johnson Tash

Interesting right? I talk about it a lot when talking about the death penalty because a) it is exactly why I believe there shouldnt be one and b) I watched that documentry as a twelve year old girl in religious education and it has really stayed with me (about the only thing that has from RE ). I dont know how it would feel now, but I remember it feeling really hard hitting at the time and a few of my friends cried over it. I have tried to find someone where to watch it or get a copy but cant, unfortunately. But yes I agree his crimes arent enough, and it makes me sad and angry that an innocent man was killed, how can that ever be okay no matter how small the chances of an innocent person being given the death penalty? How can his family carry on knowing their dad/brother/son was taken from them and he did nothing wrong

To me whilst there is ANY chance of an innocent person being killed then there should be no death penalty (not that I think there should be one any way but this is a minimum), to continue with it knowing the people that are executed could be innocent shows just how little the right to life is respected (by the authorities not the people in this thread).

 

[BabyJayne]

I am about to Google Edward Earl Johnson and have a good read. But here is another very interesting case - the one of Stanley "Tookie" Williams.

I'll try not to ramble on! Williams was one of the founders of the Crips gang in LA, was extremely violent, on drugs, involved in fights etc and other crimes associated with the infamous street gang. He was convicted in 1979 of four murders and sentenced to death. He committed more crimes in prison, attacking guards, men and women. He refused to help police, and spent 6.5 years in solitary confinement for continual attacks on prison guards etc.

Then, in 1993, he started making changes. He renounced his gang affiliation, and became an anti-gang campaigner. He wrote children's books with anti-gang messages, and wrote about the horrors of life in prison.

He was instrumental in creating the "Tookie Protocol for peace" in 2004, a peace agreement between the Bloods and the Crips - and received a letter from President Bush commending him for his work, and wrote another book, a memoir, again with the intention of warning children about life in a street gang.

He was nominated for the Nobel peace prize six times in total.

Governor Arnold Schwartzenegger refused his bid for clemency - to reduce his sentence to life in prison and Williams was executed by lethal injection in 2005.

I find this abhorrent. Because the law stated that he had to be put to death, Williams could never atone for his sins, no matter what he did. In my view, the work he did was in campaigning and fighting to stop children following in his footsteps was invaluable to society. A former gang leader, infamous on the streets - giving the starkest of warnings to the new breed of would-be gang members is, to me, a powerful tool. The value he could have added to society, albeit from his prison cell, wholeheartedly overrides his death sentence. Not just because I find capital punishment disturbing and immoral, but because society has missed out.

It scares me that this man was able to change who he was and what he thought through prison - even though it took years of incarceration before he did, and still be put to death.

 

[Tasha]

BabyJayne, that is awful. And it makes me feel a bit sick that one person got to decide his fate, what gives that person the right? I dont get it. I am glad he left a legacy but he really should be here (in prison) making a real difference.

 

[xemmax]

That is such an interesting example Jayne, and I totally agree with your points. Again, the punishment served to benefit no one.

It really does remind me of a debate we had in one of my lectures, of whether you believe that someone is the same person throughout their life, or whether we become different people over time. After much consideration I totally believe the latter - we change so drastically, we often are not the people we were 10 years ago, 20 years ago etc. I believe we are fluid.

If you do believe that then it shows just how harsh a whole life order really is - probably why it is given so rarely. I believe less than 70 people have been given whole life orders since its introduction in the early 80s.

Particularly in the case of younger criminals, I really believe that by the time they come out of prison after long stretches, they are different people. I think many reoffend due to the damage that prison causes them, and poor rehabilitation.

 

[BabyJayne]

Very powerful quotes

“He looked at me very calmly and he said, ‘Warden, I’m at peace with my God, how are you gonna be with yours?’ And I walked out of that chamber convinced that he was innocent, I really did.” - Warden Cabana about Edward Earl Johnson

"I’m innocent. I haven’t been able to make anybody listen to me or believe me, and warden, you know, in a few minutes you’re about to become a murderer.” - Edward’s final statement to Warden Cabana

 

[BabyJayne]

That is such an interesting example Jayne, and I totally agree with your points. Again, the punishment served to benefit no one.

It really does remind me of a debate we had in one of my lectures, of whether you believe that someone is the same person throughout their life, or whether we become different people over time. After much consideration I totally believe the latter - we change so drastically, we often are not the people we were 10 years ago, 20 years ago etc. I believe we are fluid.

If you do believe that then it shows just how harsh a whole life order really is - probably why it is given so rarely. I believe less than 70 people have been given whole life orders since its introduction in the early 80s.

Particularly in the case of younger criminals, I really believe that by the time they come out of prison after long stretches, they are different people. I think many reoffend due to the damage that prison causes them, and poor rehabilitation.

I totally agree Emma. And I am completely for the attempted rehabilitation of any criminal - but in particular younger criminals. They are so open to change and influence, and it is the state's job to provide that influence.

The more I am thinking about the case of Stanley Williams, the more shocked I am. I believe that the best course of action there for the greater good of society was to allow him to continue his work, his good work, in trying to prevent children following the same path - yet the law said that was irrelevent and the only way possible for him to pay for his crimes was to die. I do not see the sense in that.

 

[Tasha]

Really powerful isnt it BabyJayne? It was 15 years ago I watched it now (eeek I am old ) and those quotes and more have stayed with me.

I wanted to write about if someone executes someone and they were innocent then in my eyes that is murder, but thought it a bit too contraversial.

 

[fantastica]

Very powerful quotes

“He looked at me very calmly and he said, ‘Warden, I’m at peace with my God, how are you gonna be with yours?’ And I walked out of that chamber convinced that he was innocent, I really did.” - Warden Cabana about Edward Earl Johnson

"I’m innocent. I haven’t been able to make anybody listen to me or believe me, and warden, you know, in a few minutes you’re about to become a murderer.” - Edward’s final statement to Warden Cabana

Wow...wonder how that warden lives with himself...I know it wasn't up to him to execute, but if he was the one to carry it out...can't be easy

These cases are so interesting. There is just way too much time for error. I think the US is sometimes quite a confused/fearful country.

 

[Natsku]

I would agree that it is murder but not their fault really (the warden I mean)

 

[Tasha]

I would agree that it is murder but not their fault really (the warden I mean)

Agreed. Murder by the state is what I would classify it as.

However, it does make me think of the Milgram study and how much is the person who adminstering it to blame and how much the authority (in this case the state).

Slightly O/T but I watched a programme the other week where they did the same study and in fact nowadays more people follow authority on it, but then they did the same study but with two people in there one an actor and one the person they want to get to administer the electric shocks, when it got so far the actor refused to do it, and so they would request the other perso do it, but because the actor had declied the subject did too. Interesting how we can be persuaded to do what others say or do. And this is completely random me sharing this here

 

[BabyJayne]

Really powerful isnt it BabyJayne? It was 15 years ago I watched it now (eeek I am old ) and those quotes and more have stayed with me.

I wanted to write about if someone executes someone and they were innocent then in my eyes that is murder, but thought it a bit too contraversial.

Tasha - is this the documentary? If it is, you can watch the whole thing on YouTube (which I will definitely make time to do) x

ETA: I am just watching a few minutes of the end of this programme. I have no sound on it (as I'm in work) -but I don't need to. It's chilling as it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhHutCNkjEc

 

[highhopes19]

I honestly don't think he did it . That's made me feel sick to the stomach and cry my eyes out