Should we bring back the death penalty?

[Tasha]

He didn't high hopes, evidence came to light after his death

That is it babyjayne. Will watch it later thank you x

 

[louandivy]

It is also worth remembering that racial bias in death sentences is very prevalent. I am on my phone at the mo but will provide more evidence later.

 

[highhopes19]

He didn't high hopes, evidence came to light after his death

That is it babyjayne. Will watch it later thank you x

Oh no that's terrible .

How long after his death did it come out?
He could still be alive to this day how sad

 

[smelly07]

I think it would be a pretty normal emotion to feel, but doesnt mean its right.

I still cant believe its legal still in some places, i remember a story where arnold schwarzenegger had the right to decide whether a prisoner on death row who had served 19 years and clearly had changed his way should be put to death ........ in my eyes he is no better than the prisoner, actually he is worse........trying to google the story cant find it. x

Every governor in the US has that right. They can issue a pardon. Trust me though, prisoners can still be manipulative.

I am about to Google Edward Earl Johnson and have a good read. But here is another very interesting case - the one of Stanley "Tookie" Williams.

I'll try not to ramble on! Williams was one of the founders of the Crips gang in LA, was extremely violent, on drugs, involved in fights etc and other crimes associated with the infamous street gang. He was convicted in 1979 of four murders and sentenced to death. He committed more crimes in prison, attacking guards, men and women. He refused to help police, and spent 6.5 years in solitary confinement for continual attacks on prison guards etc.

Then, in 1993, he started making changes. He renounced his gang affiliation, and became an anti-gang campaigner. He wrote children's books with anti-gang messages, and wrote about the horrors of life in prison.

He was instrumental in creating the "Tookie Protocol for peace" in 2004, a peace agreement between the Bloods and the Crips - and received a letter from President Bush commending him for his work, and wrote another book, a memoir, again with the intention of warning children about life in a street gang.

He was nominated for the Nobel peace prize six times in total.

Governor Arnold Schwartzenegger refused his bid for clemency - to reduce his sentence to life in prison and Williams was executed by lethal injection in 2005.

I find this abhorrent. Because the law stated that he had to be put to death, Williams could never atone for his sins, no matter what he did. In my view, the work he did was in campaigning and fighting to stop children following in his footsteps was invaluable to society. A former gang leader, infamous on the streets - giving the starkest of warnings to the new breed of would-be gang members is, to me, a powerful tool. The value he could have added to society, albeit from his prison cell, wholeheartedly overrides his death sentence. Not just because I find capital punishment disturbing and immoral, but because society has missed out.

It scares me that this man was able to change who he was and what he thought through prison - even though it took years of incarceration before he did, and still be put to death.

BABYJAYNE - thats the one i was trying to remember earlier in the thread!!!! ^^^ thank you - it was driving me crazy.

Its so sad

 

[fantastica]

It is also worth remembering that racial bias in death sentences is very prevalent. I am on my phone at the mo but will provide more evidence later.

I've just been reading up on this..it's awful, apparently 80% of executions have been for murders involving white victims..despite the fact that the number of black and white people murdered are roughly the same. Black defendants also receive the death penalty at 3 times the rate of white defendants when the victim is white. Juries are often all-white also.

 

[louandivy]

It is also worth remembering that racial bias in death sentences is very prevalent. I am on my phone at the mo but will provide more evidence later.

I've just been reading up on this..it's awful, apparently 80% of executions have been for murders involving white victims..despite the fact that the number of black and white people murdered are roughly the same. Black defendants also receive the death penalty at 3 times the rate of white defendants when the victim is white. Juries are often all-white also.

Its disgusting, isn't it? That kind of obvious flaw in the system is so fucking scary when considering that it is dealing with people's LIVES. It is just so clear that there is no all-seeing authority that can appropriately decide who is deserving of capital punishment and who isn't when inequality and prejudices obviously hinder such an important decision.

 

[vaniilla]

I'm watching the Breivik trial live on tv atm, anyone else watching it? I find their legal system very interesting over there, if he was in a death penalty country no doubt he would be getting it.

 

[moomin_troll]

The laws around the death penalty are pretty fucked up but the justice system in the UK isn't much better.
A man stabbed to death his wife, his 5 and 2 yr old children and her parents and he's been charged with manslaughter!

There will never be a perfect system

 

[meli1981]

i agree, a 13 year old girl killed her whole family, a few towns away from mine, a few years ago, and shes currently in juvenile hall. because shes a minor her name was never released, and she gets out when she turns 18. her record is erased and nobody will ever know the horrific crimes she committed. she could work in a school or daycare someday. is that justice?

 

[xemmax]

No there won't be a perfect system, but I wouldn't say capital punishment is a flaw in the system, I'd say it's practically medieval. I don't think it has any place in modern society.

Meli - do you think she should have been given the death penalty?

 

[BabyJayne]

The laws around the death penalty are pretty fucked up but the justice system in the UK isn't much better.
A man stabbed to death his wife, his 5 and 2 yr old children and her parents and he's been charged with manslaughter!

There will never be a perfect system

Manslaughter with diminished responsibility - and this still carries a maximum tariff of life imprisonment, the same as murder. There are plenty of cases where the justice system has failed, and I agree there will never be a perfect system - but I don't think it has necessarily failed in this case. He won't be sentenced until October, so we will know more then.

Vaniilla - I was surprised at the sentence given to Breivik. I think 21 years is the maximum term Norway can give, but I think the minimum term of 10 years is too light. I don't know anything about the Norwegian system, but as it stands I don't think he will ever be released.

 

[xemmax]

Just read about the maximum sentence in Norway as I didn't really understand it. I was outraged to find out he'd only got 21 years, but reading further it's obvious he's unlikely to ever be released.

 

[fantastica]

The laws around the death penalty are pretty fucked up but the justice system in the UK isn't much better.
A man stabbed to death his wife, his 5 and 2 yr old children and her parents and he's been charged with manslaughter!

There will never be a perfect system

Manslaughter with diminished responsibility - and this still carries a maximum tariff of life imprisonment, the same as murder. There are plenty of cases where the justice system has failed, and I agree there will never be a perfect system - but I don't think it has necessarily failed in this case. He won't be sentenced until October, so we will know more then.

Vaniilla - I was surprised at the sentence given to Breivik. I think 21 years is the maximum term Norway can give, but I think the minimum term of 10 years is too light. I don't know anything about the Norwegian system, but as it stands I don't think he will ever be released.

The man who killed is family lived where I live and honestly, I really wouldn't believe much about this case from what you read...it's all taken mainly from our local media which is even more corrupt than the justice system, I could honestly bang on for hours about just how corrupt it is. It's actually odd that it was decided as manslaughter...we usually have more of a court of public opinion rather than one based on actual fact. I don't think they got it wrong in this case though (!)..he had tried to commit suicide a few times before the incident and had also tried to seek help from his doctor...not that it's an excuse but there are probably some failings in his treatment.

Sorry I know this is way off topic, but when you say it is part of the UK justice system..it is really not. There have been several cases where people have tried to appeal to the UK for help in corrupt cases, I think someone actually took legal asylum for some time in the UK after exposing corruption in a child abuse scandal.

 

[smelly07]

I agree with that totally..........^^^^ media distort everything.

 

[Baby France]

Hmmm...I don't.

But I do think that we need to make massive changes in the way our system works. I also agree that schemes should be in place to help those that need it.

But then there are some that IMO are 'wired' wrong and no amount of help, therapy and that is going to help them. I don't think that they should be executed, but then again I don't believe that they should live life happily in jail...

 

[smelly07]

I dont think prisoners live their lives happily in Jail they become institutionalized and cope, i dont think they have happy lives at all.

 

[meli1981]

are you speaking from experience? have you ever been to prison? if you havent how can you say that?

 

[fantastica]

You have your freedom taken away...how can that possibly be an enjoyable thing?

 

[Redhead84]

are you speaking from experience? have you ever been to prison? if you havent how can you say that?

I tried to make this point weeks ago, and even put my OH's diary from his time in prison up.

Re a previous poster and the sentence for murder and manslaughter - they are not the same. A murder conviction carries a mandatory lie sentence (meaning even after release they will remain on licence for the rest of their lives), manslaughter carries a maximum of life, but it is discretionary and isn't always imposed - look at cases such as R v Thornton and R v Aluwahlia, both of which raise interesting questions surrounding battered wives and the defences available for murder/manslaughter.

 

[xemmax]

are you speaking from experience? have you ever been to prison? if you havent how can you say that?

I have never been to prison, but a close friend of mine has and they have shared their experiences with me, of which I am speaking from when I say that prisoners aren't happy. Do you know of anyone who loves prison? May I suggest you read the diary that Redhead posted which her husband wrote - it will really open your mind to the reality of prison and the effect that the removal of freedom has on a person.