Sleep Sense Support Group!

[history_girls]

I miss tennis girl to - where has she gone?

Cattia - Phoebe just sudenly gave up her night feed at 5 months and 3 weeks old - she just slept through that night and I have never fed her since. The only times I've offered have been in mega screams when she went to bed without a bedtime bottle as she was too tired. I'm sure she will let you know if she is hungry or when she is ready not to have a night feed. Try not to think about work. I've developed a really good habit of just not thinking about school until after I drop LO off at the childminder. Do all your favourite things this week!

 

[Cattia]

Thanks HG I have just noticed your ticker - does your doggie really only have three legs?

 

[hivechild]

Meh. Well I think my laziness has come back to bite me on the ass.

My hubby has been taking our dog out of an evening to get him exercised and I've been putting Ronan to bed since it's just easier for me to nurse him than it is to put a bottle of EBM together, especially since I have no idea how much he'd take in a feed anyway...

So tonight I had some EBM in the fridge as I was meant to go out for a few hours this afternoon and didn't end up going so I figured I'd have DH put the monkey to bed from start to finish. Normally he just does bits and pieces like the bath, or read a story or take him from me to put him in his cot.

Let's just say it was an unmitigated disaster. He did not want to take the bottle and kept crying and spitting it out. He never had a problem before but I think I hadn't warmed it enough, or rather it cooled down too much by the time hubby got to it. There was screaming and tears as he tried to settle him and get him to take the bottle. I ended up coming back upstairs, got him to take a little more of the bottle before he flat out refused and gave me that 'why are you doing this to me, mummy!?' look, so a few remaining ounces of EBM is down the drain now after I had to nurse him.

He settled just fine after that, even though he was dangerously into overtired territory by this point and he spent about 20 minutes squealing and talking to himself when he went into his cot before falling asleep. He's 17 weeks today, which is meant to be 'a particularly rough week' during this developmental leap.

Anyway, now I'm worried that he's not going to take bottles, and I hate the idea of having EBM go to waste like that. Hubby is bound and determined though to start trying to give him the bottle more frequently but during the day and in small amounts. We use the breastflow bottles which he's never refused before, but he hasn't had a bottle since early May and I don't know if he's ready to start learning to drink from a cup, nor would I know what to use to teach him since again, the idea of seeing EBM spilled all over the place and gone to waste makes me cringe! I do plan to get a doidy cup for him to learn to drink from but haven't done it yet (they cost $10 here!) thinking I've plenty of time yet but he's growing up so fast!

Anyway, just when I think I've got it good, something comes along and throws a complete wrench into it...oh and he also woke for his first feed really early last night too. Bah!

 

[polaris]

Hi everyone.

I miss Tennisgal too - maybe she is still having internet problems? Come back to us soon!

Cattia - glad the move went well. Bigs hugs about going back to work. I think HG is right, try not to think about it too much and just enjoy the time you have left. Once you are actually back you will adjust and be able to deal with it better.

Hivechild - oh that is very annoying about the bottle and bedtime being messed up. We are the same as you also due to laziness mainly, LOL, I always just nurse Thomas at bedtime. Also because I worry that he still tends not to take a full feed out of a bottle and like you have no idea really how much he 'should' be taking. But he was fine last night when I wasn't there which was a relief. Maybe it was just a once off if he's always been fine with bottles before? Or maybe he knew you were still around somewhere and just wanted nursing instead of a bottle, especially if he's a bit unsettled developmentally anyway? I think your hubby is right about trying him again with the bottle more regularly during the day. I'm not sure about the cup as Thomas still only takes small sips of water from his cup - but I think Cattia has had luck in teaching Abigail to feed from a cup.

 

[Foogirl]

Let's just say it was an unmitigated disaster. He did not want to take the bottle and kept crying and spitting it out. He never had a problem before but I think I hadn't warmed it enough, or rather it cooled down too much by the time hubby got to it. There was screaming and tears as he tried to settle him and get him to take the bottle. I ended up coming back upstairs, got him to take a little more of the bottle before he flat out refused and gave me that 'why are you doing this to me, mummy!?' look, so a few remaining ounces of EBM is down the drain now after I had to nurse him.

Uh oh. I am the bearer of bad news. Abby took her last bottle at about 4 and a half months. She was having terrible colic and I was staying with my parents for a week. I fell out of the habit of expressing and giving a bottle as she was constantly on my boob to settle her. A couple of weeks after that my husband complained he wasn't getting to feed her any more so we tried a bottle and no go. It was hell!

Lots of people gave me advice of tips and hints. Try going out so you are not around and they know boobs aren't an option. Try when they're not too hungry. Try warming the teat. Try a different teat.

None of these worked for me. Someone even said to refuse the boob altogether - they will eat when they were hungry. It took 17 hours they said, but it worked. I refused to starve her for a day just for my convenience!

So that was it for me and bottles. I was the only option for feeding her. I still have to be there first thing and last thing. She did have some success drinking water from a cup, but like you, I hated to waste EBM when she refused. Not only that, when we tried EBM she went nuts.

You could try a sippy cup with or without the sooky bit. The other option is fine china or a fine glass. Abby did really well with that and from about 8 months would drink from pretty much anything. But not EBM! The doidy cups are really good though, so you might find it is worth spending the $10.

Or maybe the tricks with the bottle will work for you. Fingers crossed you find a solution.

 

[Foogirl]

The trouble is, every time I wake up I just lie there and get stressed about going back to work, and it takes me ages to get back to sleep. I have only one more week left I think it is going to be better for my sanity (and my bank balance!) when I actually just do it now.

I went back last week. It honestly wasn't as bad as I thought.

 

[history_girls]

Evening all - well what a night! It was fab She went down at 7 up at 6.30! With a couple of squeaks in the night and that was it Didn't go in once. What a turn around. Feel 100% better for a good nights sleep.

Hive - My LO is FF and is going through a phase of not liking bottles and she is used to them. She is brill at a sippy cup though so for two out of three feeds she has her milk out of her cup. She can do that herself now to which is great. what a nightmare! the bedtime routine is so important isn't it? Hope you get a better night tonight

Cattia - yes my dog does have three legs! Poor phoebe will go to school saying dogs have 3 legs.

 

[Poppy7]

Hi ladies,

Sorry for not coming on here so much lately. I just don't seem to have the time these days...also with night times being much better I spend more time sleeping than settling/feeding Elliott and therefore not spending so much time on my iPod in the middle of the night!!

The little man is still being a legend. Generally waking once or twice a night. He often wakes at 4-5am and I feed him and he will then resettle for another hour or 3! I am loving hte extra sleep and so is Elliott. His daytime naps are still fab. Had a funny day yesterday but generally he sleeps for an hour or two still at a time.

He got his first tooth on Saturday!! It is ever so cute. Luckily it hasn't affected night times (the odd cry out in his sleep but resettles himself) but he has been a bit upset during the day poor little bear. Generally though he has coped really well. BLW is going well though we are helping him using the spoon with certain foods so I suppose you could say we aren't 100% BLW but it works very very well for us. His little pincer grip is coming on a treat too! So generally we are very proud of our young man.

HC - That's a shame about the bottle. My SIL had terrible trouble getting her LO to take a bottle (basically she wouldn't until about 6 months). I tried Elliott on a bottle at about 3 weeks with EBM and has always been fine. Mind you he isn't particularly fussy and will drink out of most things (his favourties being his doidy cup and his 360 cup). Mind you with his being only 4 months old do you think he could managed a cup? Did someone mention that Cattia's LO drinks from a cup?

HG - That's fantastic you must feel like a new woman lol!! I hope this is the start of a new trend for your LO!

to you Cattia. Elliott went in his own room about 2 weeks ago and he has slept so much better for it. The first night I was terrible and hardly slept but he was fine. It's funny as his naps are so much more restful and longer too now. Elliott seems to love his bed and when he is tired he grabs his blankie, rolls on his side and seems to be so pleased to be in his own bed getting some rest. Sorry to hear you are getting stressed about work. Work is something I can not even think about at the moment though I should be really. I do not want to go back at all

I hope all of you have a good night. I'm going to have an early one I think.xx

 

[Cattia]

Well last night was not too bad! She woke at midnight and I fed her, then she woke again at about 2. I know if she had been in our room still I would have fed her again, but it is easier to leave her in her own room. She wasn't really crying, just winging; I'm not sure she was even really awake properly. I left her to it and within ten minutes she was back asleep! She then woke up again at 5.30 so that was a pretty good night really.

Hive - we had terrible issues with getting Abigail to take a bottle. She took one a few times when she was much younger (about 6 weeks) then we didn't give her one for a while and after that she just SCREAMED whenever we tried to give it to her. We tried every day, every single teat, different times of day, the same time of day, me, DH, my mum, literally everything but with no luck. In the end I started her on a sippy cup at 4 months and she took to it straight away! I started off using EBM in it but I was just not ready to see half my milk go all over the place, and more to the point it meant I would need to express twice as much as she actually needed to get one feed down her, so I just used cartons of formula instead. It was the first time she had had formula and I felt weird about it at first, but it was actually way easier for me as there was no stress involve din letting her experiement. She now takes water from it as she is on solids, so I am sure that if you don't want to give formula, you can give him some cooled boiled water to experiment with.

The weirdest thing is that out of the blue, about 6 weeks ago, she just started to take a bottle! I don't know what made me try it again, we had not tried it for a couple of months, but I just got the breastflow bottle out and gave it a go, and she drank the whole lot! Now she takes a bottle no problem, and drinks from any type of teat, with anyone giving it to her. Very odd, in a good way!

HG and Poppy - great to hear so much good news on the sleep front

Abigail's routine was a disaster this evening - me and my mum went shopping and it took us longer than it should have done because we ended up in IKEA, so I ended up feeding Abigail a jar of banana rice pudding in the back of the car as we were going to be too late to get back home for her tea - hardly the healthy home made veggie puree she is used to but of course she loved it! By the time we got home she was really overtired and screamed all the way through her routine, then chatted to herself until about 8 o'clock in her cot, but she went down in the end. I feel so bad that I messed up her routine, and even though she was crying because she was overtired she was trying to smile at the same time when I was giving her a bath - bless her!

Hope you all have a really good night

 

[hivechild]

Thank you everyone for the support/advice/encouragement on the whole bottle issue. If he decides he's well and truly done with them well I'm not going to force it on him since I really don't mind the 'sacrifice' of being there to feed him when he needs feeding. In the long run, it's such a short time in his life that if I have to set other things aside to tend to him then so be it.

I will still try giving him a bottle again, and maybe start giving him the opportunity to learn to drink from a cup in the near future as well. Next time I'm going to express directly before the feed and only put about an ounce at a time in the bottle. That way not too much will go to waste if he gets fussy or kicks off in protest. I'm hoping it was just a one off since he was fine with them before!

I'm glad that everyone's LO's are doing great/better than before. It seems like a lot of us have been riding out rough patches recently so it's nice to see you all coming out the other end. Ronan's night time sleeping (knock on wood) really hasn't been bad. After waking before 1 the night before, last night he woke at 4 and then went down again until after 7:30, so for all the chaos of putting him to bed, he still slept ok!

I think he's actually worse during the daytime. I know I really need to work on his naps but he screams blue murder more often than not when I try and put him down for a nap whereas before I could usually get at least one, if not two naps out of him where he'd sleep on his own. Ah well, we'll get it sorted.

He's been a right little monkey with his mood swings recently too, and now that he's discovered the squeal, he spends most of his time squealing happily right up to the second where he just starts crying and sobbing. He sure does like to keep his momma on her toes!

 

[hivechild]

Scratch that whole sleeping well at night thing. He's just woken for the first time since we started at 7 weeks before midnight, after not even 4 hours and took a full feed. Now he's squealing and blowing raspberries to himself in his cot.

...and I think (fingers crossed) he's got himself back off to sleep now. Hopefully he goes longer than 4 hours now!

 

[polaris]

Hi everyone.

Well we had another good night last night, just one feed and back to sleep until five past seven - which counts as a lie-in in my books, yay!! Yesterday Thomas rolled over in the cot for the first time ever, he is not keen on rolling over and only does it very rarely and never before in the cot, I went up to get him after his lunchtime nap and he was on his tummy. No idea how long he had been like that, he might have only flipped when he woke up but there was a wet drool patch on the sheet so it looked like he might have been sleeping on his tummy. I wouldn't have thought he would even be comfortable sleeping on his tummy as he's so used to sleeping on his back. I'm not worried about it or anything, it was just strange.

Poppy!! Good to see you dropping in and so glad to hear that Elliot is being such a star! Sounds like he is doing brilliantly in every respect! And how exciting about the tooth - and great that it didn't affect his sleeping! Still no signs of any teeth here.

Cattia - I know exactly what you mean about it being a bit easier to leave them when they are not in the room with you. That's fantastic that she went back off to sleep herself. Sometimes Thomas is definitely not fully awake when he cries out/whinges during the night. I didn't realize that Abigail was taking a bottle now for you - must have missed that - that is great news.

Historygirls - what a relief that Phoebe is back to normal after such a difficult week last week!

Hivechild - I wouldn't worry about the early wake-up. It is probably just a bit of a growth spurt. Since we started sleepsense Thomas has only had one nightfeed most nights, but he would go through little phases of waking much earlier than normal and having an extra feed. It would normally only last maybe three nights and then he would be back to normal. (except for the most recent disruption to his sleep which lasted a lot longer - but I don't think that was due to hunger). I always worried about going back to giving an extra feed that it would become a habit but it never did.

 

[Cattia]

Polaris - that's odd becasue Abigal did the same thing for the first time today! Did Thomas not mind? Abigail screamed the place down so we went rushing up to her and there she was on her tummy. We got her up but she was still tired when we bought her downstairs to play so we have put her back up again, but now she is shouting in a kind of 'I'm tired but I'mnot going to go to sleep' sort of voice so not sure how long we will leave her. This morning she went swimming and I decided to give her lunch as soon as she got back so she had it bfore her nap, and she actually fell asleep as I was feeding her! She just leaned her head against the side of the high chair and shut her eyes, bless her! Swimming really tires her out. As a consequence she has only eaten half of her lunch so will have the rest ofr afternoon tea if she fancies it. Right now I can hear her sucking her thumb thenevery so often she stops and cries, she sounds really tired still so I am hoping she will re-settle. Yesterday she had a two hour nap for the first time ever! No idea what prompted it but now I want more of the same. Typical that as soon as I am about to go back to work she will be sleeping half the day and OH will have a really easy time of it!

Also she is 6 months today! I can't believe it! I feel like she is not a baby any more (although of course she is).

 

[polaris]

Polaris - that's odd becasue Abigal did the same thing for the first time today! Did Thomas not mind? Abigail screamed the place down so we went rushing up to her and there she was on her tummy. We got her up but she was still tired when we bought her downstairs to play so we have put her back up again, but now she is shouting in a kind of 'I'm tired but I'mnot going to go to sleep' sort of voice so not sure how long we will leave her. This morning she went swimming and I decided to give her lunch as soon as she got back so she had it bfore her nap, and she actually fell asleep as I was feeding her! She just leaned her head against the side of the high chair and shut her eyes, bless her! Swimming really tires her out. As a consequence she has only eaten half of her lunch so will have the rest ofr afternoon tea if she fancies it. Right now I can hear her sucking her thumb thenevery so often she stops and cries, she sounds really tired still so I am hoping she will re-settle. Yesterday she had a two hour nap for the first time ever! No idea what prompted it but now I want more of the same. Typical that as soon as I am about to go back to work she will be sleeping half the day and OH will have a really easy time of it!

Also she is 6 months today! I can't believe it! I feel like she is not a baby any more (although of course she is).

Wow - happy six month birthday to Abigail!! They are growing up fast!

No Thomas didn't seem to mind being on his tummy which was what I found really peculiar. And he looked like he might have been like that for a while based on the drool marks on the sheet. He hasn't done it again since though.

We had swimming today too - Thomas always has a lovely long nap after swimming - usually over two hours. It's funny that you mention about Abigail having a two hour nap the other day - I found that Thomas's naps started to get longer at exactly that age, just when he turned six months. It makes me wonder if there was any point to all my attempts to lengthen his naps when he was younger, maybe there is just a developmental component to taking longer naps. Hopefully Abigail's naps will start getting longer now too. We normally get two solid hour and a half naps and a shorter nap in the afternoon. It's great!

 

[history_girls]

Well after two nights of great sleep I feel more tired than last week during the nightmare! Guess it is all catching up. The monster known as Phoebe went to bed like lamb (woke up an hour ago after getting stuck in the corner of her cot lol) and no noise since.

Quick poll - how much noise do you people make once LO is in bed?

We used to operate on radio silence (i.e. no noise really) until we went away and had a party of 10 for dinner with her in the next room. She slept through. We then came back and were more confident with noise. We live in a 1930s semi so not a huge house but not tiny. We have nosiey floor boards and I am parnoid about going upstairs after 7pm! I won;t let OH have a shower tonight as I am paranoid that the whirr of the pump will wake her up. Last night after I ran a bath she stirred and needed her daddy for a couple of seconds. SHould I be more confident with noise?

Cattia - Wow 6 months! It is such a lovely age. That has gone quick, I'm sure she was just 3 months yesterday. and how cute falling asleep in her highchair - Phoebe is always too busy eating to sleep in it

Poppy - nice to hear your update - We were in the same boat as you until a week ago but fingers crossed we are back there now.

HC - Phoebe went through a squeal phase - wonderful when they find their voice isn't it (!). Good luck on whatever you decide about feeding - I always try to go with her - she has never been wrong.

Polaris - I often wonder how she sleeps as she is always on her back in the morning. OH went in yesterday and she was still asleep and curled up next to the bars of her cot. I doubt she will ever sleep on her tummy she hates it tahat much.

 

[Cattia]

Polaris - that's intetesting about the longer naps. I spent ages and went through so much stress trying to get Abigail to have longer naps then in the end I gave up, so it willbe interesting to see whether she gets there on her own!

HG - I used to be really careful about noise, but when Abigail was in hospital at 12 weeks old, doctors would literally come in and have full volume conversations over her bed when she was asleep and she didn't wake up, the nurses even came and did her IV antibiotics when she was sleeping and that didn't wake her either, so I learned she is a sound sleeper! If we make a noise when she is dropping off then it will disturb her, but once she's asleep she'll sleep through anything. I was the same, until I had her! If she's in a strange position in her cot I can move her around and she won't wake up.

Well she didn't want to participate in the second half of her nap today so as we were going out for tea and cake, she slept in the car which was OK. She was over tired this evening but went down OK, has stirred a few times but not woken so far.

Fingers crossed for a good night everyone!

xx

 

[polaris]

Historygirls - we are quite cautious about noise but only because it does tend to wake Thomas up. If someone calls to the door it will normally wake him, OH often wakes him coming up the stairs to bed (creaky stairs), next door were doing a bit of banging the other day and it woke him. Our kitchen is an extension so if we have people over we tend to sit in the kitchen (it's a big comfortable room so no hardship really) because noise from the kitchen doesn't really travel upstairs.

I didn't used to be cautious about noise because it didn't seem to disturb him when he was younger. I can't remember exactly when that changed but I think around about three months. I do wonder though if I am too cautious about noise and that if we had just persisted then he would have got used to it. I have also been wondering recently about whether it would be silly to introduce some type of background noise to his bedroom (not sure what exactly, like a fan but something you could have on all the time when he's asleep) to try to muffle household noises - like using white noise recordings I guess but I think he might be too old for white noise now?

Thomas was on his tummy again this morning when I went in to get him up.

 

[cutie4evr01]

Hi girls! Sorry I have been MIA lately - we had company over the weekend for Christina's baptism, so things have been crazy around here. She slept pretty badly, especially naps, while company was in town, which is to be expected. She wanted to stay awake and play with everyone. Also, I didn't want to leave her to cry very long because I didn't want to whole house to wake up. So Sunday night we started back with sleepsense again and she only cried 10 minutes before bed, then slept 6pm-1am, had one feed, and back to sleep until after 6! Monday night she cried about 10 minutes again, and slept 6:15-3am, one feed and awake around 6:30. Last night she went to bed without one single noise!!!! No crying, no whining, not even any chatting to herself like she does in the middle of the night. I was sooo proud of her. Then she woke early (11pm) for a feed, but I think it's because our air conditioner is broken, so the temperature in her room was different than normal. This morning she was up for the day at 5:30, so that's not great, but all in all she's doing better at night now that company is gone.

I'm off to read back a few pages and catch up on you all!

 

[cutie4evr01]

I'm glad to hear it seems most of the LOs are doing well with sleep lately! C rolls onto her front in her crib sometimes, but usually cries out for us because she is too tired to roll back So we just go flip her back over and tell her it's nighttime and she will usually go back to sleep. During the day she has been rolling like crazy and can really cover some ground! We had to put out some of our babyproofing items because she's getting near the fireplace.

HC, Christina will do the cute squealing which then sometimes turns into a cry, we've decided we just can't figure her out. She seems to be much more talkative when she's tired.

Poppy, so glad Elliot is doing well, and how exciting about a tooth!

Cattia, hard to believe she is 6 months already - the time is flying by! I'm glad to hear she is sleeping well in her own room. Going back to work stinks, but as you said, I think it will be better once you are actually there, as opposed to now just dreading going back. I still miss my baby girl every day that I am there (3 days/week), but it's not as bad as I thought it would be.

Polaris - glad to hear Thomas has been sleeping so well lately. You mentioned longer naps starting right around 6 months - do you think this had anything to do with solid foods? Sorry my memory is awful - when did you start solid foods?

HG - so sorry to read about your few awful nights. I'm so glad to hear Phoebe is sleeping much better now. I bet she learned all sorts of new skills during those days, and I hope she is feeling better now too. We tend to stay as quiet as possible also. We do run the dishwasher or laundry machine while she's asleep, but we try to tiptoe up the stairs and not talk too loudly around her room. I'm not sure if she would wake more if we were louder or not, as we've never tried. When we are out and about and she is very tired, sometimes she will fall asleep in my arms, and it seems then she can sleep through all sorts of loud noises.

Polaris, we used to use a white noise CD in C's room, but we stopped when we started sleepsense. I don't feel it made a difference to the length or quality of sleep, but I think if he wakes easily, it wouldn't hurt to give it a shot. We do have a humidifier running all night in her room, so I assume that's providing a sort of background noise.

 

[polaris]

Polaris - glad to hear Thomas has been sleeping so well lately. You mentioned longer naps starting right around 6 months - do you think this had anything to do with solid foods? Sorry my memory is awful - when did you start solid foods?

Possibly, although we are doing BLW so it was a couple of weeks before he was actually eating much. But he dropped a milk feed at about 6 months too and went onto approximately 4 hourly feeds - that was at the same time as his naps got longer.

Polaris, we used to use a white noise CD in C's room, but we stopped when we started sleepsense. I don't feel it made a difference to the length or quality of sleep, but I think if he wakes easily, it wouldn't hurt to give it a shot. We do have a humidifier running all night in her room, so I assume that's providing a sort of background noise.

That's the sort of thing that I was thinking of, just some sort of background hum to muffle other noises a little bit. I'm not really too keen on actual white noise recordings because I don't really want him to become dependent on that to sleep. Or maybe I'll just have to accept that he is quite a light sleeper and hope that he learns to put himself back off to sleep if he wakes due to noise. He has got much better at this during the night, but not if he wakes early from a nap. I am a light sleeper and noise will generally wake me.