Sleep Sense Support Group!

[polaris]

Hi everyone.
Not a great night. We have been awake since 5 - too early!!! Thomas woke up at 11 screaming, when I went into him he was on his tummy again as I suspected. I turned him over and tried to resettle him but nothing was working and I ended up having to feed him. OH was in work or I would have got him to try and resettle him. Then he woke at 5 as usual, I fed him again but he just wouldn't go back to sleep. I even brought him into bed with me at about 6.15 (which is not a habit that I want to get into but I was just exhausted) but he just thought that it was great fun and wanted to play.

Hivechild - our last feed of the night is after the bath. He doesn't fall asleep during that feed at all though (unless he's totally overtired then he will try to nod off during it) but the night feeds I do have difficulty keeping him awake and I do think that he is dependent on feeding to get back to sleep when he wakes at 5. But I'm afraid to change it in case he doesn't go back to sleep at all like this morning.

Cutie4ever - I can't remember exactly with bedtimes but naps definitely took a lot longer. I agree with hivechild that the only time that we get protest at bedtime now is if he is overtired. I have started giving Thomas a very late nap too if I don't think he's going to make it to bedtime, even as late as 5 p.m. sometimes for 20 or 30 minutes. I don't find that it interferes with bedtime which surprised me. If he has had a late nap he will normally chat to himself for a bit longer before falling asleep but no crying or protest, whereas if he is overtired he will still sometimes cry going to bed.

 

[cutie4evr01]

Polaris so sorry about your early morning. Thanks for the advice - I do think maybe she's just over tired at night. I have tried putting her for a nap around 4-4:30, but then she just sleeps for several hours as if she thinks it's nighttime! I really would prefer if she was taking a late nap and then having bedtime a little later, like 7. Do you think it would be worthwhile to put her for a nap around 4 and wake her up? I sort of feel like I should just follow her schedule instead of enforcing mine.

Last night she gave me a fright because she was sleeping on her tummy! I always go in to check on her about 10 minutes after she goes quiet to be sue her blankie isn't on her face, and was surprised to find her on her tummy because for a couple of weeks she's been screaming out when she flips on her tummy in her crib. She seemed to sleep ok like that, two night feeds, which is somewhat normal (I prefer one). I had trouble going to sleep though knowing she was like that.

Well we are off to attempt to get some handprints for Daddy'd Father's day present!

 

[hivechild]

Polaris, sorry to hear about your night! We had a bit of a rough one too.

He was in bed by 7:30 but woke at 12:30 (i'd only gotten to sleep at 11ish). I gave him a feed & he went right back down, unlike me who was awake until 2:30. The dog then woke me up at 3:30 needing to go out with the runs. Again I got back to sleep sometime around 4:30 to be woken by Ronan at 5:30 squealing to himself. I left him to it for a half hour until he started to whinge and then got up and fed him and he went back to sleep until a bit after 8 when it was morning poop time.

I'm shattered, he started fussing on his feed after we got up and kept crying before having a screaming fit and passing out on my shoulder. I'm annoyed with my DH who slept through it all last night, then disappeared downstairs over an hour ago mid screaming fit 'for just a minute'. As soon as ronan wakes he's going to land on daddy's lap so mummy can go take a bath since she's also in excrutiating pain with back pain.

 

[polaris]

Hivechild that sounds like a dreadful night of very little sleep for you. I find it so hard to function if I don't get enough sleep. I get very annoyed by my OH sleeping through everything too especially when he is actually snoring away through while I am trying to resettle Thomas.

Cutie4ever - that is what I do with the last nap of the day, I get him up after about 45 minutes or not later than about 5.15. He always wakes up when I go into the room though, the odd time that he hasn't woken when I've gone into the room and opened the curtains I have just let him sleep as I figured that he must need it. You could give it a try and see if it makes a difference to bedtimes? I think you need to try something for 4 or 5 days to be able to tell if it is helping. If it doesn't help then you can always go back to what you are doing now.

Thomas has been in good form today despite his early morning, I on the other hand have some sort of stomach bug and have been throwing up all day. OH has been in work all day so it has not been fun.

 

[hivechild]

Oh that sounds horrible, Polaris. At least Thomas is in a good mood. I would imagine that being sick and having him be demanding and cranky would just make everything 10 times worse! Hopefully it's just one of those bugs that hits you hard but is gone just as fast. Get as much rest as you can and make sure to keep up with the fluids!

As for being annoyed with DH sleeping through, I know it's entirely irrational, and it's not like he could nurse Ronan anyway but I can't help feeling a wee bit envious and just a tad resentful after a rough night, especially when I haven't gotten a full straight 7-8 hours of sleep...or even 6 I don't think since I was around 7 months pregnant and started needing to go to the loo repeatedly through the night!

Anyway, I think I'm getting close to breaking point with the cuddle naps as my back, which I've had serious pain with since I was in an accident at 18, has been giving me unbelievable grief lately. I think I may have to see if I can't get a referral for some PT when I next see my doc. It makes me sad now that he's getting bigger and heavier that carrying him, and even holsing him when sitting is causing so much strain.

 

[history_girls]

Huge to everyone! What is up with all those LOs? Early mornings, wakings in the night. I shall have to get my mum to give them a talking to - she did that to Phoebe on Saturday night last week and told her that screaming and waking up was not acceptable and she has been fab ever since.

Hive - big i hope you get a better night tonight. I was so lucky with my OH he used to get up every night to make her night time bottle whilst I changed her - he was an angel. Now he tends to sleep through and doesn't hear her wakings - especailly at 4am. I hope Ronan is a good boy and gives you loads of sleep.

We do half her bottle with her sat naked on her changing table after her bath - how we discovered she liked it that way i don't know and half when in pjs and sleeping bag. She prefers it this way for some reason - the strange child.

Cutie - I would say it took about a week to get going to bed without a fuss sorted, and about three weeks to sort out the self settling when she woke and about two months for reliable sleeping all the way through. but then she was poorly so there is always something to throw them off. Having said that she has got back into good habits really quickly.

Polaris - how rubbish it is to be sick. I hope you are getting better now. I find ginger nuts and black tea the only thing I can stomach after I have been ill. I hope when your OH is home he takes over to give you a break.

Well Phoebe has been on top form today and slept loads. she went through again but got up at just after 5.30 but it was my turn for a lie in We tried crawling boot camp but she just won't have it. Keeps trying to stand up. Perhaps I will crawl around the house to show her how it is done.

Big sprinkles of sleepy dust to you all - sending it now so by the time it has crossed the atlantic it should reach you to hive in time for bed!

 

[Cattia]

Sorry to hear so many of you are suffering, but kind of glad it is not just us! We had a truly terrible night last night I got so upset last night about having to go back to work next week, and I know DH thinks I am being over dramatic about it, so we ended up having a big argument

I think we kind of cleared the air, I do think he feels guilty that I have to go back to work because he doesn't earn as much, but I also think he had no idea at all how upsetting it is for me, but anyway, all that took until about midnight. Abigail then woke up at 1am, and I spent an hour trying to re-settle her, but she ended up just screaming with tears pouring down her face Maybe she could sense that I was stressed. In the end I fed her and then felt even worse as I could have spared her the hour of crying and just fed her in the first place. We were doing really well with the re-settling, but now it seems like we are back to square one. When she woke at 5.20 I was too tired to even try to re-settle her so I just fed her. She slept until 7am, then I took her downstairs and OH slept until 8 We then had to spend the day at his relatives house who are full of helpful advice like why don't I give her soft boiled egg for tea (she only eats vegetables) and why don't I give her some milk with a drop of whisky in it (ummmm - how about no?)

So it has been a terrible night followed by a terrible day and I feel very sorry for myself. Not sure what my strategy is for tonight, think I will try to re-settle before feeding but I am not going to leave it an hour, maybe 15 mins max.

 

[PieMistress]

Everybody,

Just back from a weeks holiday with 2 other babies and blue skies (in Sw Scotland!), our night wakenings are getting much much worse and now i'm stressing about weaning ..

Poop, he has just woken from his nap, will have to update later!

Love to all xxx

 

[hivechild]

HG - Can you send your mum over for a visit? Thanks for the sleepy dust too! Ronan slept much better last night, waking at bit after 4 for a feed and then going back down until after 8. It was perfect timing as I went downstairs to bake some blueberry muffins for his daddy's father's day brekkie after he went back to sleep and I still managed to get a bit more sleep after that before we were up for the day!

Cattia - I hope last night went better for you. I think 15 minutes sounds good.fing Generally if Ronan starts kicking up a right fuss and hasn't settled within 10 minutes or so, I get him up and feed him.

PM - fingers crossed the night wakings are temporary and settle now you're home. Hope the vacatiipon was great otherwise! It's a ways off yet for us, but I'm excited to start weaning with the monkey. Are you hoping to do TW or BLW?

Polaris - how are you feeling? Hopefully your bug is well and truly gone!

 

[history_girls]

Well our run of unbroken nights had to end and it did so last night. Woke up at 1.30 for no good reason in my opinion and by 3.30 I gave up and got into bed with her. She wasn't hungry, her bum was ok - could have been teeth but I'm guessing she was lonely as she kept settling but if I left the room she'd wake up immediately. As soon as we snuggled in bed she was out like a light.

Fathers day has been a disaster - all to do with FIL's pond - so OH and I are on extremely polite terms this evening after a bust up!

PM So good to see you! where did you go? I just love love love SW scotland and If I was brave enough I would move there. Glad you had a nice hols - eek about the sleep. Don't stress too much about weaning once you are in the swing of it it is so fun!

Hope you are better Polaris

Cattia - hope your night is ok - don't fret if it isn't. I would have spent the whole night with her on the night before work just to watch her. I am a little green she gets to stay with her daddy, sending her to a childminder makes me feel bad - but now the CM is getting a bit like family!

Here is hoping they all behave tonight.

 

[cutie4evr01]

Just a quick update on my end. I know it's a little over the top, but I have been recording every nap and bedtime for months now looking for patterns. We normally take her for a nap or bedtime after a few eye rubs or yawns. I noticed from my sleep journal that for the past couple of weeks, she has always gone quiet between 6:15 and 6:20 for bed every night, no matter what time I put her down. If I put her down at 5:45 she will scream/whine for 30 minutes, and if I put her down at 6:10 she will scream for 5 minutes, and the one night I put her down at 6:15 was the night she didn't make any noise at all. So I think she has some type of very strict internal clock that says bedtime is at 6:15. Today we tested it out. She had woken from her last nap around 2:20 (no luck getting her to take a late nap, although we tried for about 30 mins), so I knew she would be totally overtired by 6:15 and probably scream forever. But I laid her in her crib right at 6:15 and she was quietly talking to herself for a minute or two and then went silent! I could not believe it! So that makes the second night where she went straight to sleep if I put her down at 6:15. I'm going to try a few more nights before I believe it, but I'm thinking maybe my baby is different and I should follow the clock instead of following sleepy signs. I haven't seen any pattern to her napping though, so we're going to follow sleepy signs for naps until a pattern emerges, but for bedtime I think we may have cracked it!

Be back later to catch up on the rest of you, and hoping you all have good sleep tonight!

 

[polaris]

Just a quick update on my end. I know it's a little over the top, but I have been recording every nap and bedtime for months now looking for patterns. We normally take her for a nap or bedtime after a few eye rubs or yawns. I noticed from my sleep journal that for the past couple of weeks, she has always gone quiet between 6:15 and 6:20 for bed every night, no matter what time I put her down. If I put her down at 5:45 she will scream/whine for 30 minutes, and if I put her down at 6:10 she will scream for 5 minutes, and the one night I put her down at 6:15 was the night she didn't make any noise at all. So I think she has some type of very strict internal clock that says bedtime is at 6:15. Today we tested it out. She had woken from her last nap around 2:20 (no luck getting her to take a late nap, although we tried for about 30 mins), so I knew she would be totally overtired by 6:15 and probably scream forever. But I laid her in her crib right at 6:15 and she was quietly talking to herself for a minute or two and then went silent! I could not believe it! So that makes the second night where she went straight to sleep if I put her down at 6:15. I'm going to try a few more nights before I believe it, but I'm thinking maybe my baby is different and I should follow the clock instead of following sleepy signs. I haven't seen any pattern to her napping though, so we're going to follow sleepy signs for naps until a pattern emerges, but for bedtime I think we may have cracked it!

Be back later to catch up on the rest of you, and hoping you all have good sleep tonight!

That's brilliant - well done you working it out!! I always found that we needed to go by the clock for bedtime too, regardless of what time he got up from his last nap or whether he was looking sleepy. It always used to be 6.45 on the dot but he has managed to stretch it to 7 now. I keep a record of naps and bedtimes too, I know it might seem a bit obsessive, LOL, but I do find it so helpful, especially if you have a baby who needs a little bit more effort on our parts to get them sleeping right (my SIL is just totally go with the flow and they've never put any thought or effort into the babies sleep but they still sleep through the night since they were 3 months and take regular naps - I just see is as proof that all babies are different!).

HG - maybe your mum could have a chat with Thomas on the phone or something?? So glad that Phoebe is sleeping well again now! It gives us all hope when we are going through a rough patch that it will pass. So funny about the crawling bootcamp - I think they just get little obsessions where they only want to do one thing (like standing) and are just not interested in anything else.

Cattia - What a horrible night and day. I am thinking of you going to work this morning, I'm sure the first few days are going to be very hard and there will be lots of tears, but I hope it all goes as well as possible. It's good that you and OH were able to talk things through, sometime a good argument is needed to clear the air, it's better than leaving things unsaid and they just get all bottled up. The night sounds so hard too, what a nightmare, I don't think I would be strong enough to deal with an hour of crying, I think about 20 minutes is my limit too. Thomas seems to be back to two nightfeeds again for some reason, I feel a bit rubbish about it as surely his feeds are supposed to be getting less not more and I'm sure I should be trying harder to resettle him without feeding, but it is just so much easier and nicer for both of us to just feed him. I'm going to go with the flow for a bit I think. But if he hasn't cut them out by the time I'm going back to work I will definitely have to take action.

PieMistress - Good to see you back! Hope you had a lovely holiday and hopefully Kyle's sleep will settle down again now that you are back in his regular environment, I'm sure it might just take him a few days to adjust. Try not to worry about weaning, I was SO stressed about it but as soon as we started I absolutely loved it, it really is such fun. I can't wait for Thomas to get some teeth now so that he can properly tuck into more foods!

Hivechild - blueberry muffins sound yummy! My OH definitely didn't get any special father's day breakfast from me - but he did get to spend loads of quality time with Thomas as I was still not well at all.

Well the good news is that I am feeling much better this morning, I managed a slice of dry toast before I went to bed last night as I hadn't got sick since 4 p.m. and it stayed down. What a horrible bug but thank goodness that Thomas didn't get it.

 

[history_girls]

Oh my goodness me! What a night we had. All fun until midnight then no sleep until two hours later and get this - for the first time in over two months she had a full mega bottle of milk at 1.55 - then went down like a lamb. What was with that? Feel bad about the night before as I think she may have been hungry. She had another mega bottle first thing as well. I think has had tummy ache but tonight she has called out twice but gone back twice on her own. These things I sent to try us!

Cattia - hope it went ok today and you are feeling ok.

Polaris - hope you got some more food in today and are feeling better?

Cutie - I used to write down all feeds on a big chart! What time does your LO get up if she goes to bed fairly early? Just curious as I think my LO would like to go earlier but she gets up early enough as it is.

Hive - I'll put an order in for some blueberry muffins too!

 

[Cattia]

Hi all,

Just a quick update. Since I had to go back to work I have decided to just feed Abigail when she wakes up and worry about getting her sleeping properly over the summer, when I don't have to worry so much about being tired.

Today was hard, but OK in the end. I didn't much enjoy work; it is a quiet time of year for us which means I didn't teach at all today. I thought it would be a good thing but actualy it meant I just dealt with lots of other rubbish and I think I would have enjoyed it more if I'd got back into the classroom. I was OK leaving her this morning as I had been preparing myself for days and sort of accepted it had to happen. What I found much harder that I hadn't expected was coming home and DH had already done her routine so she was all ready for bed It meant I just got to feed her and a quick cuddle but she was so sleepy and getting cranky so I had to pretty much put her straight down That was when I really felt like I was missing out. It's horriblejust catching the very tail end of her day and knowing I have missed out on so much. Work itself was OK and it didn't feel as though I had been away for 6 months. She cried for ten minutes before going to sleep tonight as well but I managed to settle her. I am hoping that she sleeps OK tonight so I can get up tomorrow without being too shattered. Can't wait for Wednesday when I get my day at home with her.

 

[polaris]

Hi all,

Just a quick update. Since I had to go back to work I have decided to just feed Abigail when she wakes up and worry about getting her sleeping properly over the summer, when I don't have to worry so much about being tired.

Today was hard, but OK in the end. I didn't much enjoy work; it is a quiet time of year for us which means I didn't teach at all today. I thought it would be a good thing but actualy it meant I just dealt with lots of other rubbish and I think I would have enjoyed it more if I'd got back into the classroom. I was OK leaving her this morning as I had been preparing myself for days and sort of accepted it had to happen. What I found much harder that I hadn't expected was coming home and DH had already done her routine so she was all ready for bed It meant I just got to feed her and a quick cuddle but she was so sleepy and getting cranky so I had to pretty much put her straight down That was when I really felt like I was missing out. It's horriblejust catching the very tail end of her day and knowing I have missed out on so much. Work itself was OK and it didn't feel as though I had been away for 6 months. She cried for ten minutes before going to sleep tonight as well but I managed to settle her. I am hoping that she sleeps OK tonight so I can get up tomorrow without being too shattered. Can't wait for Wednesday when I get my day at home with her.

Your post makes me feel really sad, I wish we didn't have to go back to work, it is horrible that we have to be away from them and miss out on stuff. I am dreading having to go back to work. I think it sounds like a good plan to just feed her for the moment and work on sleeping over the summer, she might be more ready to drop the feeds at that stage anyway.

HG - sounds like it could be a growth spurt? Thomas seems to be back to two night feeds at the moment for some reason. I was wondering if my milk supply was affected by being unwell though. But also he gets very distracted during his daytime feeds so I'm not sure how much he's taking.

We had such a great day today, it is so nice to be feeling healthy again! That was a horrible bug but thank god Thomas did not get it. I would have said that it was food poisoning but Thomas ate exactly the same as me and he was fine.

 

[polaris]

Well I am exhausted again! Couldn't get to sleep last night until about 1 a.m. (nothing to do with Thomas, my mind was just racing), then he woke at 3.30 for a feed, then woke again at 5.30 for no apparent reason, went in and resettled him and he seemed to be going back to sleep but then started crying at about 5.50, went into him and he had a pooey nappy, changed him and tried to resettle, but he wouldn't go back to sleep so we ended up getting up for the day at 6.15. Then he woke up early from his morning nap with another pooey nappy.

So much for solids making them sleep better - it's definitely been the opposite for us!

 

[history_girls]

Just a quickie before tea - Phoebe was back to sleeping through last night hurrah! I think she reached full at about 6pm yesterday and decided she had eaten enough! She has certainly grown - in 9-12 months clothes this week and they fit (and only just!!!) so guess I will be buying more soon.

Cattia - Glad it was ok. I think i cried on the journey home for the first few days as I realised what had happened!

Polaris - solids did nothing to help Phoebe sleep more! and the poo is amazing...... Phoebe takes an age to go back to sleep after a nightime poo!

 

[hivechild]

Cutie - I found that in the beginning, Ronan would always fall asleep right around 9:30pm regardless of what time I tried putting him down so I started doing that for awhile and that's when he really started to settle better. After a few weeks, he became more flexible and we started moving his bedtime earlier.

Cattia - I can't imagine how it would feel barely seeing Ronan all day. I'd find myself sneaking into his room all night just to watch him sleep (more than I do now)! I hope the rest of these 3 weeks fly by for you and the summer is full of long and lazy days that seem to last forever!

Polaris - The messy nappies part of weaning is something I am NOT looking forward to. It's bad enough when Ronan has poopy nights waking him up already as it is.

HG - for Phoebe sleeping through again. I had to go buy Ronan some new sleepsuits yesterday and the brand I got, I had to buy 6-9 months because he's so long. Time to start buying things without feet on them so I can get more wear out of them. I feel like I've blinked and he's grown from a wee squishy newborn into this little person.

Well, as always we've been all over the place. Sunday night was awful. We were at the in-laws for a cookout on Father's Day and he would not sleep for love nor money with all of the excitement around him so he was sooooo overtired by the time we got home and I tried putting him to bed.

True to form, he wouldn't settle on his own, and once I got him to sleep he was restless and woke several times through the night. He seemed to take a decent feed every time though so I didn't feel too bad about having to get up. After nights like this, it makes me wonder how many people who have troubles with their LO's sleeping & settling is largely down to them getting overtired earlier in the day.

The last two nights have been much better and he even slept in this morning until after 8!

 

[hivechild]

Oh, and before he starts fussing after waking from his great big long 20 minute nap can I ask what everyone's pre-nap routine is?

We've been kind of slack with it since he naps on me so much still, but I need to buckle down and be consistent about it. I'm finding it hard because we spend so much time downstairs during the day and his cot is upstairs. We do have a playpen/bassinet downstairs though so not sure if I should try getting him to nap upstairs or down, or a combination of both...

 

[polaris]

Oh, and before he starts fussing after waking from his great big long 20 minute nap can I ask what everyone's pre-nap routine is?

We've been kind of slack with it since he naps on me so much still, but I need to buckle down and be consistent about it. I'm finding it hard because we spend so much time downstairs during the day and his cot is upstairs. We do have a playpen/bassinet downstairs though so not sure if I should try getting him to nap upstairs or down, or a combination of both...

What I used to do was put Mozart Piano Concerto 21 on youtube (he always chilled out to it from when he was really tiny) and walk around the room with him on my shoulder while it was playing (about 6 minutes). Then I would bring him upstairs while singing 'sleepy time for Thomas, close your sleepy eyes'. Then I put him in his sleeping bag, close the blinds and curtains, hum a verse of Brahm's lullaby, put him in the cot and tell him 'sleepy time' and give him his blankie. Now I don't normally bother with the Mozart because he settles really well for his naps now and understands what's coming from the rest of the routine. But I found it really good when he was younger, just to wind him down a bit from playing before going to sleep.

Until he was four months he always napped downstairs usually in his bouncy chair, when he was four months I started putting him down for naps in the cot with the baby monitors on. There were a few tears during the transition though.