So annoyed with parents at church.

[smokey]

This is just a bit of a pointless rant really.
The school I want LO to go to has a very strict criteria, luckily we fit it, Live opposite, he's baptised, we attend church weekly (and have done for a long time before schooling came up) and have a letter of support from our priest.
But there is only 30 places and it seems there is at least 100+ kids trying to get those places.
Now this is where my frustration kicks in.
We go to church regularly sometimes even twice a week as I take LO to early morning mass on a Wednesday and then help out at the toddler play morning they have which starts just after.
But On sunday they have a meet and greet after mass where all the kids play out in the garden and the adults have a coffee, chat and our priest who is a lovely guy goes around chatting with everyone, hes not one for wearing his robes hes normally out there in shorts and tshirt or getting stuck in the kids climbing frame (seen as hes over 6 foot im not surprised)
But the amount of people that show up the last few minutes of mass or literally as everyone is heading out into the garden just to make it look like they have been there all along so they can get their kids seen at the church or by the preist is annoying and so frustrating.

You hear them chatting and whispering about not bothering with church but want their kids in the school (the school is linked to this church) and just sucking up to make it look like they have been there all morning and get their faces seen.
This morning there must have been at least (and im not joking) 40 families with kids show up after church just to hang around the meet and greet and they are all pushing their kids to the front to be "seen".
Its hard enough getting LO a place without people lieing to get their kids in.
Why have so much concern about your child going to a catholic school if you cant be bothered to attend church and for the right reasons?

 

[Kate&Lucas]

I know people have major issue with this but I can see why parents do it. I've very recently decided to raise Lucas Catholic so I can send him to a Catholic school. Course we're going to start going to church 'properly', I don't see the point in part-timing it if he's going to be going to their school, but it is the only reason for the massive change of heart (I'm atheist, although his Dad and their entire family are Catholic and very religious, so while it'll be a big change for me, Lucas is around Catholicism a lot anyway).
It is incredibly unfair though, because the non-faith schools in this area are ridiculously poor performing. Within walking distance to us there are four schools, two Catholic and two non-faith. The difference between them is appalling, according to a member of teaching staff at one of the non-faith schools (he happens to be a friend of my sister's and the school is the one I've unfortunately enrolled Lucas in already, as I obviously didn't do my research well enough beforehand).
It does stink that parents would just show their faces at the end of service to get a place for their child when there are others who go regularly and are 'more deserving', but I think it's even worse that parents are having to resort to this.

 

[Abz1982]

I know parents will go to great lengths to get their kids into certain schools. Its really quite low of them to show up at the end, but you will probably find out that the priest sees this and whilst he choses to not openly confront it, it may sway any decision making that is done. I would personally be more wary of families who have friends already at the school or on the school board - those are the ones who will be sneaking up the list, most likely without even attending services!

 

[jenny82]

I can totally see why you are annoyed with it, but if it came to it, it might be something I would do if it was a school that I really wanted my kids to go to. Although, in saying that, if I was going down that route, I would actually attend mass & functions, not just show up at the end - that is a bit cheeky, but the priest does notice I'm sure. In fact, my SIL lectures sometimes and she tells me that she notices everything that everybody in the lecture does so I'm sure he is the same.

Luckily I am actively avoiding catholic churches (much to my mum's disgust) so that is not a game I will have to play!

 

[Pearls18]

It sounds frustrating and I hope the priest or whoever decides can see through it, however, I totally understand a parent's instinct to try and get their child into the best school they can. I would be more annoyed at parents who didn't give a damn than those who just want the best for their children, selfish perhaps, but tbh if my choices were a run down badly reputable school and a catholic school despite not being catholic I'd probably do all I can.

 

[discoclare]

I decided not to attend church to get my DDs into a good church school and most of my friends think that I either "forgot" to start doing this in time (I didn't. I knew the last date I would need to start for DD1) or they are simply amazed that I have chosen not to "play the system". I am an atheist and feel that it would be wrong of me to fake religion and cheat my way into a local school like this.

Having said all of that I completely understand why people are doing it. Since 2008 we have faced an acute shortage of school places in London and the south East (and other pockets of the UK) and it is increasingly difficult to get your child into any local school. If I applied to the six nearest schools to my house for next year (DD due to start YR in 2014 so we will be doing the next round of applications) the likely outcome would be that I will fail to get into any of them (3 of them are community schools and I would be too far away for a place - we are about 0.4 miles from each; 2 are C of E and we haven't completed the church attendance for a place; 1 is Catholic and we haven't had our DDs baptised Catholic and no chance of a place without this since oversubscribed with baptised Catholics). So I understand why people do it if they want their child to attend a local school. I would love my kids to attend a local school, but in my LA more than half of the state primary schools are C of E or Catholic (bear in mind this is central London and many of the local children are Muslim, Hindu, Jewish etc). So most of the people are fighting for places in less than half of the primaries. One way to shorten the odds of getting into a local place is to go for a Catholic / C of E. I see so many kids every morning commuting with the parents to schools in other parts of London because they didn't manage to get into a local place. Honestly, 10 stops on the tube into zone 1 during the rush hour at aged 4 can't be much fun for the child or the parent, who has to work the school commute around their work commute.

 

[smokey]

I understand qh some parents do it but to me if you dont care enough about the religous side of the teachings hwn dont go to a catholic school.
The secondry part is taught by nuns alot of the classes are held in the church same as some of the weekday masses are held in thw school for the children.
Plus symday school is a big part of the school so if you have no concern for the religious side then its jst going to mean nothing ti you and its just annoying that families where it does mean somthing not just the school itself but a religious side are going to loose out.

 

[Dragonfly]

HA you must hate me then. My child goes to a catholic school and we are atheists , he isnt baptised. All our schools are religious in this area and the only one that would accept him. They know he isnt baptised. Its something many have been crying out for is schools with no religion here. Either that or home school. But if you have an area with a choice I dont agree. I know people that baptised just to get them in schools that also never go to church.

 

[Pearls18]

We aren't getting posted until 2015 which will be the year DS starts school, I will be applying with either weeks notice or even after the school year has started, I don't have the luxury of choosing in advance what school I want him to go to. All I can hope is that there is a good quality school that can accept DS nearby, if my choice is restricted to a religious school I will guarantee the quality of education will be of paramount importance to me over whatever religion they teach and my morals as to what is fair will be right out the door, my son's education is the only thing important to me and I will do what I need to do to get him in. Schools usually get given money for accepting military children if they have signed the military covenant so I'm hoping we won't have too much difficulty.

I have the upmost respect and sympathy for any parent that does what they can to get the best quality education for their child, it's as simple as that for me, it sounds to me there is more wrong with the system and the amount of quality schools rather than the parents themselves.

 

[smokey]

A huge part of the school is funded by the church from things like collection and fund raising.
I just dont see why people should benafit from a community that they lie about being a part off.
Yes this school is one of the best but before we moved the catholic school he was due to go to was pretty standard to all the others in the area yet the same problem was there as well.
The only differance about that school was the religious factor yet they still had loads lieing to get in there just to say they go to a catholic school lke its ment to make them better people just because its a catholic school

I dont get it, why would it make a differance if your not religious apart from show off value which it seems most of it is down to.
If it was solely about education or there being only religious schools in the area then thats differant but to "fake it" as a social show off is the worst reason to lie about it.

 

[Pearls18]

A huge part of the school is funded by the church from things like collection and fund raising.
I just dont see why people should benafit from a community that they lie about being a part off.
Yes this school is one of the best but before we moved the catholic school he was due to go to was pretty standard to all the others in the area yet the same problem was there as well.
The only differance about that school was the religious factor yet they still had loads lieing to get in there just to say they go to a catholic school lke its ment to make them better people just because its a catholic school

I dont get it, why would it make a differance if your not religious apart from show off value which it seems most of it is down to.
If it was solely about education or there being only religious schools in the area then thats differant but to "fake it" as a social show off is the worst reason to lie about it.

Because if you think this school is where your child is going to get the best education you are going to do all you can to achieve it, ok if by going by Ofsted reports it is on par with others then no I don't get it either, as a non catholic I wouldn't want to send my child to a Catholic school if the other non secular or CoE school down the road is exactly the same. But if the Catholic school has by far the best reputation then yes I'd go for it if the other schools were lacking, (if they were still good schools but not outstanding I wouldn't send him to Catholic school because I would rather he didn't have a catholic education). If they're doing it for a "social show off" then no I don't get that.

 

[Mummy Bean]

Im in london and like some one else said i get to opt for 6 schools...but the chances of me getting any of them are slim to none. so i do get why people go to extreme lengths to get a place in a school.

But it not a guatantee...my parents are christian both of whom work part time for the church (mum does 4 weekly groups) dad does sound and a dads group my sister works for them full time in the youth and yet when they tried to get my brother in to the local of CofE school they were turned down. (had to appeal 4times)

Whilst i do agree it bad that people are lying about there 'faith' i can see (not ness agree with) why they do it.

 

[ellismum]

And this is why we need an equal, non discriminating, educational system in the UK. ALL children should have a fair opportunity to attend any school regardless of religion.

 

[smokey]

Sorry, maybe im giving the wrong impression about why im whinging
Its not because people are doing it for a better education, goodness id probably do the same if it was that.
What im moaning about are the ones that seem to be doing it as some kind of social standing.
You hear them all going on the ones with the older children about how their kids are in the catholic school with their noses in the air and the ones with younger children all saying things in hushed voices like its either the catholic school or the local prep school just so they can tell their friends their in a catholic school.
I have noticed alot of the ones who seem desperate that its a catholic school seem to be polish, my cousins wife who polish is the same, couldnt care less about going to church but her daughter has to go to a catholic school or she will never hear the end of it from her family and community.
Its as though just the shear fact that its a catholic school is somthing to show off about and is the sole reason to opt for a school.
Like I say the old one he was going to was pretty adverage among the local schools (not bad, they where all pretty good) yet so many of them seemed to be going for the catholic school just for the sake of it being a catholic school and hardly any of them even attended church or had anything to do with the chuch community.
Its just somthing that baffles me, why be so hell bent on going to a religious chiurch just to say you attend their if your not religious.

 

[Dragonfly]

And this is why we need an equal, non discriminating, educational system in the UK. ALL children should have a fair opportunity to attend any school regardless of religion.

I remember years ago you couldn't get in to a catholic school here with out proof you where a catholic which was why every one was baptising their kids. I am glad one school has changed that and they accept all faiths though you have your kid doing nothing during religion class somewhere else. If you have a choice I have no idea why you would send your kid to a religious school. I remember calling the school board over it also and was told its at schools discretion who they accept.

 

[Blah11]

The idea of faith schools sit really uuncomfortably with me. I don't think education should be tied to one religion as imo theyre totally different and importtant things in regards to science could get missed out (like evolution). If you want your kids to learn about Catholicism that's what Sunday school is for.

It really irks me that certain kids can be discriminated against and miss out on a good school because their parents don't believe in god.

 

[smokey]

The idea of faith schools sit really uuncomfortably with me. I don't think education should be tied to one religion as imo theyre totally different and importtant things in regards to science could get missed out (like evolution). If you want your kids to learn about Catholicism that's what Sunday school is for.



It really irks me that certain kids can be discriminated against and miss out on a good school because their parents don't believe in god.

Things such as evolution isnt missed out on, a carhilic school isnt that bad
At risk of pissing people off but its the way i feel, i cant speak for other fairh schoola so ill just use this one as a example.
This school is largely funded by the church from activities to most equipment even most of their staff which is largely made up of nuns that have had their teacher training paid for by the church.
The school was built by church money and is currently having another 4 classes and a sports facility built soley funded by the church.
All that funding from the church is raised by the community of regular attendance of church goers from collections, fundraising, donations and sometimes but rarely a general overal district pot.
So at the end of the day why shouldnt it be the children of the active church community that benafits from this church funding rather then people that dont have or want anything to do with paying into it.
To me thats like paying for my child to go swimming but another child taking his place just because their parent says no my child wants to go but i dont want to pay for or take him and why should thier child miss out on what my.l child would have done.

 

[Pearls18]

The idea of faith schools sit really uuncomfortably with me. I don't think education should be tied to one religion as imo theyre totally different and importtant things in regards to science could get missed out (like evolution). If you want your kids to learn about Catholicism that's what Sunday school is for.



It really irks me that certain kids can be discriminated against and miss out on a good school because their parents don't believe in god.

Things such as evolution isnt missed out on, a carhilic school isnt that bad
At risk of pissing people off but its the way i feel, i cant speak for other fairh schoola so ill just use this one as a example.
This school is largely funded by the church from activities to most equipment even most of their staff which is largely made up of nuns that have had their teacher training paid for by the church.
The school was built by church money and is currently having another 4 classes and a sports facility built soley funded by the church.
All that funding from the church is raised by the community of regular attendance of church goers from collections, fundraising, donations and sometimes but rarely a general overal district pot.
So at the end of the day why shouldnt it be the children of the active church community that benafits from this church funding rather then people that dont have or want anything to do with paying into it.
To me thats like paying for my child to go swimming but another child taking his place just because their parent says no my child wants to go but i dont want to pay for or take him and why should thier child miss out on what my.l child would have done.

The Catholic Church still benefits from having non Catholics in their school, it's a way of getting their message and teaching to those who normally wouldn't get it, they get to bring other people's children up with their religion and in return there may be more "followers" (not meaning to make it sound like a cult lol) so for this reason I don't think the church itself loses out for the payment it has made.

And at the end of the day seeing as Christianity is meant to be based on compassion and charity I can't see how any catholic or Christian could begrudge another child's education just because they aren't "one of them", it's not really how Christianity works is it from what I have learned? It seems a bit selfish to not want any child there just because they have a different belief system, religiously speaking.

 

[smokey]

The idea of faith schools sit really uuncomfortably with me. I don't think education should be tied to one religion as imo theyre totally different and importtant things in regards to science could get missed out (like evolution). If you want your kids to learn about Catholicism that's what Sunday school is for.



It really irks me that certain kids can be discriminated against and miss out on a good school because their parents don't believe in god.

Things such as evolution isnt missed out on, a carhilic school isnt that bad
At risk of pissing people off but its the way i feel, i cant speak for other fairh schoola so ill just use this one as a example.
This school is largely funded by the church from activities to most equipment even most of their staff which is largely made up of nuns that have had their teacher training paid for by the church.
The school was built by church money and is currently having another 4 classes and a sports facility built soley funded by the church.
All that funding from the church is raised by the community of regular attendance of church goers from collections, fundraising, donations and sometimes but rarely a general overal district pot.
So at the end of the day why shouldnt it be the children of the active church community that benafits from this church funding rather then people that dont have or want anything to do with paying into it.
To me thats like paying for my child to go swimming but another child taking his place just because their parent says no my child wants to go but i dont want to pay for or take him and why should thier child miss out on what my.l child would have done.

The Catholic Church still benefits from having non Catholics in their school, it's a way of getting their message and teaching to those who normally wouldn't get it, they get to bring other people's children up with their religion and in return there may be more "followers" (not meaning to make it sound like a cult lol) so for this reason I don't think the church itself loses out for the payment it has made.

And at the end of the day seeing as Christianity is meant to be based on compassion and charity I can't see how any catholic or Christian could begrudge another child's education just because they aren't "one of them", it's not really how Christianity works is it from what I have learned? It seems a bit selfish to not want any child there just because they have a different belief system, religiously speaking.

And thats fine but if the parents dont want anything to do with that religion or the community of it then why be so forcefull about your child attending the place that teaches it.
I really dont want to or mean to annoy people with my thoughts on it but would people pretend to attend a mosque just to send their child to a muslim school if they didnt believe in muslim teachings just si they can say to muslim friends yeah my child goes to one aswell.

 

[Pearls18]

The idea of faith schools sit really uuncomfortably with me. I don't think education should be tied to one religion as imo theyre totally different and importtant things in regards to science could get missed out (like evolution). If you want your kids to learn about Catholicism that's what Sunday school is for.



It really irks me that certain kids can be discriminated against and miss out on a good school because their parents don't believe in god.

Things such as evolution isnt missed out on, a carhilic school isnt that bad
At risk of pissing people off but its the way i feel, i cant speak for other fairh schoola so ill just use this one as a example.
This school is largely funded by the church from activities to most equipment even most of their staff which is largely made up of nuns that have had their teacher training paid for by the church.
The school was built by church money and is currently having another 4 classes and a sports facility built soley funded by the church.
All that funding from the church is raised by the community of regular attendance of church goers from collections, fundraising, donations and sometimes but rarely a general overal district pot.
So at the end of the day why shouldnt it be the children of the active church community that benafits from this church funding rather then people that dont have or want anything to do with paying into it.
To me thats like paying for my child to go swimming but another child taking his place just because their parent says no my child wants to go but i dont want to pay for or take him and why should thier child miss out on what my.l child would have done.

The Catholic Church still benefits from having non Catholics in their school, it's a way of getting their message and teaching to those who normally wouldn't get it, they get to bring other people's children up with their religion and in return there may be more "followers" (not meaning to make it sound like a cult lol) so for this reason I don't think the church itself loses out for the payment it has made.

And at the end of the day seeing as Christianity is meant to be based on compassion and charity I can't see how any catholic or Christian could begrudge another child's education just because they aren't "one of them", it's not really how Christianity works is it from what I have learned? It seems a bit selfish to not want any child there just because they have a different belief system, religiously speaking.

And thats fine but if the parents dont want anything to do with that religion or the community of it then why be so forcefull about your child attending the place that teaches it.
I really dont want to or mean to annoy people with my thoughts on it but would people pretend to attend a mosque just to send their child to a muslim school if they didnt believe in muslim teachings just si they can say to muslim friends yeah my child goes to one aswell.

You're not being mean or annoying, I totally sympathise with your frustration, I don't get the social standing thing it's not something I've come across at all, to me personally a religious education is a compromise I would only want to make for the sake of a fantastic education and nothing else as like Blah I'm not comfortable with the idea (but as I said would do it if I felt the other schools warranted this) however I think with the ethos of Christianity it's hard to "police", I'm assuming legally they can't have a catholic only policy but I don't know but as I say I don't think the catholic school is disadvantaged by the situation so they won't need to be as strict.


I think the thing with the Muslim analogy is that in Britain most of us are brought up with some Christian knowledge and teaching thus a different denomination wouldn't bother us so much and it is still familiar, whereas a completely different religion would be a whole different scenario.