Soap in the Mouth....

[Dragonfly]

And its always the same people that mock and throw in these sarcastic jokes. Run out of things to say then. Pointless.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

 

[staralfur]

I suppose it matters because it is important to be aware of what is classed as abuse so that if a child seeks help, they don't just get fobbed off by people who just see it as another form of punishment. If a child came to me and was upset because their parents were washing their mouth with soap, I would take appropriate steps to make sure that the relevant people were aware so that the child's safety could be checked as it is classed as abuse here. If that child chose someone who just viewed it as a valid form of punishment, it might not go any further than "didn't do me any harm!" and problems could be missed.

I was one of the people who said I didn't see it as abuse necessarily, but that doesn't mean I'd "fob off" a child who expressed to me that it upset them.

As it's already been pointed out maaany times, no one here said they'd do it to their child. No one here thinks it's a good or particularly effective way to get a point across, so obviously we feel it's not appropriate in this day and time. As TriChick said, I think we're all getting hung up on semantics at this point.

 

[TriChick]

Maybe some of them feel as though their difference of opinion isn't granted the same respect or consideration that they are expected to allot others? It could be the result of frustration just as easily as being utilized as a defense mechanism. Just a thought...

 

[Tasha]

I understand what you are saying about people here not chosing to do it, but I think people on a parenting forum tend to be a little different to the general public/parents. Most research a lot, most learn a lot from here etc. For (what seems) quite a few people on a status update to be suggesting it, it suggests that it is something that is still used in some places and it perhaps just isnt talked about.

 

[Eternal]

So since toothpaste is a chemical substance, by that link I am forcing abuse onto my child when I open his mouth and brush his teeth when he refuses too. My SS has seriously rank breath in the morning and hates brushing his teeth.

Of course not, toothpaste is required and a part of a heathy life, it's more "wrong" to give up and not brush. However, soap is not, and can provoke vomiting and upset stomach.

So can swallowing too much toothpaste

Yes but assuming your not stupid or abusive you are not going to force a tube of toothpaste down your child's throat.

 

[robinator]

Why are people are are apparently joking and sarcastic in debate forums? surely its not the place for people who just cant debate without the sarcasm?

My theory: its a thing they do when they don't have anything else constructive to reply with so they try and end any further discussion by making jokes or being sarcastic to try and make the point of "look at me, I'm joking about it now, this discussion is so silly!". And then when people reply seriously to it, they can then mock those people with "eeeerm, I was only joking god!" and try to make the other people feel stupid for replying with serious responses.

The other tactic is to get really aggressive and swear about it and then flounce or moan about how awful people are for having an opposing opinion when people respond to it. "Why do I bother?" Or "I don't know why I come on here anymore" are my personal favourites to see along this line.

It's all good fun really

Here's where I am coming from with regards to joking, although I can't speak for anyone else:

I see where the abuse side is coming from; I do. While I don't agree with it, I can see your viewpoint. The opposite respect doesn't seem to be shown to those of us who don't find it abusive. You don't have to agree with us, no one is asking you to, but it seems no one is even trying to understand that there might be another pov.

Entire arguments and statements are disregarded because someone jumps on one word or sentence and nitpicks it to death. Self-righteous opinions, judgements and/or passive-aggressive insults are hurled down instead of recognizing the fact that there are other pov's out there.

When you're talking to a seeming brick wall for 33 pages, hands tend to get thrown up in frustration and the sarcasm comes out.

 

[Eternal]

Why are people are are apparently joking and sarcastic in debate forums? surely its not the place for people who just cant debate without the sarcasm?

My theory: its a thing they do when they don't have anything else constructive to reply with so they try and end any further discussion by making jokes or being sarcastic to try and make the point of "look at me, I'm joking about it now, this discussion is so silly!". And then when people reply seriously to it, they can then mock those people with "eeeerm, I was only joking god!" and try to make the other people feel stupid for replying with serious responses.

The other tactic is to get really aggressive and swear about it and then flounce or moan about how awful people are for having an opposing opinion when people respond to it. "Why do I bother?" Or "I don't know why I come on here anymore" are my personal favourites to see along this line.

It's all good fun really

Here's where I am coming from with regards to joking, although I can't speak for anyone else:

I see where the abuse side is coming from; I do. While I don't agree with it, I can see your viewpoint. The opposite respect doesn't seem to be shown to those of us who don't find it abusive. You don't have to agree with us, no one is asking you to, but it seems no one is even trying to understand that there might be another pov.

Entire arguments and statements are disregarded because someone jumps on one word or sentence and nitpicks it to death. Self-righteous opinions, judgements and/or passive-aggressive insults are hurled down instead of recognizing the fact that there are other pov's out there.

When you're talking to a seeming brick wall for 33 pages, hands tend to get thrown up in frustration and the sarcasm comes out.

I do understand you point of view, I think it basically comes down to what is abusive, and thats veiable from petson to person. I think generally it could be defined, in this case, as excessive punishment, so here in the uk smacking is a no no but I'm the USA it's probably more on the lines of if it leaves a mark. I think for me, soap is excessive for swearing etc, I feel there are better more productises ways to deal with the issues other than physical pinishement. If a child mentioned this had happened to them I would wonder what other excessive punishments happen.

Physical punishments to me are no, I don't believe they work and I feel they are better ways to deal with a child's behaviour. I don't judge other parents for how they choose to parent, but as I say the act for me would raise warning bells.

I can understand the innocence of it and it was used a lot a few decades ago, but just because it has been done for decades does not mean its right. I don't think it's abuse, but I do think it indicates strong levels of physical disapline which can be abusive. Does that make sense. So I'm not judging. I'm just expressing my feelings, there is no right or wrong answer, we all parent differently.

 

[robinator]

I respect your feelings and see where you are coming from.

While I agree each person has their own view on the matter, it seems that on this thread, if one doesn't see the practice as abusive, then we are very bad people.

People have not said so directly, but have managed to imply the message quite clearly. That is what is difficult about this thread; someone said it's hard to debate people who are sarcastic; it's also hard to debate people who think they are right, period, end of.

That's where my frustration lies.

 

[Eternal]

I respect your feelings and see where you are coming from

As do I yours and can understand the idea, that a bit of soup never hurt anyone, and although I don't 100% agree with that statement, it certainly won't do any physical lasting damage.

 

[Jaylynne]

Actually only half sarcastic. If force is ok for brushing teeth and that's not classified as abuse, then if the same force is done for soap in the mouth, is it then the motive that is abuse and not the action? Both substances are chemicals not meant to be swallowed.

Just don't understand how the exact same action is abuse in one scenario and hygiene in the other.

 

[robinator]

Because the argument for toothpaste is that it's needed for healthy teeth. I see both sides on this one: the need for toothpaste but also the forced action is still the same.

I've seen before in Toddlers & Preschoolers about not force feeding the kids. Why not force feed them - they need nourishment to grow, right? So.....it's bad to force food into their mouth, and soap into their mouth, but it's okay to force a toothbrush into their mouth?

It does seem contradictory.

 

[Jaylynne]

So basically it's a "the end justifies the means" situation if it's for hygiene but not discipline. I'm not a big believer in that Machiavelli quote.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Ugh red herring argument! Look it up!

 

[chell5544]

yes it does seem that as long as force is used 'for the greater good' then its ok to do it.

 

[Jaylynne]

I'm not an idiot ozzieshunni. I know debate. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a fallacy. No one is diverting attention away from soap in the mouth. Just comparing how the same force is somehow ok in one situation and not another.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Hmmm, tooth decay and baby teeth falling out versus soap in the mouth. Am I the only one that doesn't see a relation? Would you not hsve your child take a bath because they screamed?

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Also, seriously, you should have seen the teeth of some of the toddlers and preschoolers I've worked with. Heinous.

 

[Dragonfly]

Note not everyone forced their children to brush their teeth some like it. And then some dont use it as punishment if they dont. Sarcasm and red herrings lol

 

[alaskagrown]

Hahaha...does anyone else keep thinking A Christmas Story like me?!