Soap in the Mouth....

[LoraLoo]

Robinator i can understand you probable jumped on right now but genuine question do you think this would be ok to do to a adult? If not why ok to a child?

I'll tell you why it was done to me/my brother:

The reason soap was used is because, as someone mentioned, it is a cleaning product. Therefore, it was used symbolically in our household to "wash out our mouths" when we used dirty words.

Obviously one would not do it to another adult because we are not responsible for teaching each other what is acceptable to say.

I honestly don't think it is abusive. I didn't consider it abusive when it was done to me. It was gross and unpleasant, but certainly not traumatising.

Isn't there other ways to teach them though?

 

[robinator]

Probably, but that's what was done in our house. I really don't take issue with it.

Hot sauce is another matter, it burns and can hurt. But soap is painless.

 

[special_kala]

But could a husband not argue that he had to teach his wife a lesson.

I dont understand why children wouldnt be given the same respect a adult would. They are still people.

I remember being threatened with this as a child but they never actually did it. I just cant understand why it would ever be ok.

I want my children to do the right thing because they understand why they should not because i degrade and punish them into it

 

[robinator]

Thats just my experience and why I view this matter the way I do.

 

[special_kala]

To me these kind of punishments are just the parents showing how powerful they are and how weak their children are. Its wrong.

Me and my children are equal we deserve mutual respect from each other. Obviously as a parent i do have more power but this would just be complete abuse of that power.

 

[LoraLoo]

But could a husband not argue that he had to teach his wife a lesson.

I dont understand why children wouldnt be given the same respect a adult would. They are still people.

I remember being threatened with this as a child but they never actually did it. I just cant understand why it would ever be ok.

I want my children to do the right thing because they understand why they should not because i degrade and punish them into it

My mum did it to me once, i still remember it now, i cant even remember what i said but i must have been about 7, she bust my lip and never actually got the soap in. She never did it again, think she felt guilty.

 

[special_kala]

But could a husband not argue that he had to teach his wife a lesson.

I dont understand why children wouldnt be given the same respect a adult would. They are still people.

I remember being threatened with this as a child but they never actually did it. I just cant understand why it would ever be ok.

I want my children to do the right thing because they understand why they should not because i degrade and punish them into it

My mum did it to me once, i still remember it now, i cant even remember what i said but i must have been about 7, she bust my lip and never actually got the soap in. She never did it again, think she felt guilty.

It must be horrible having that done to you

I came home a few days ago and apparently River had told OH a lie so he said he woudnt let her get up until she told him it was a lie. I went mental, you dont treat children like that ever. I hate being held down and not able to get up. He was told if he ever did that to our daughter again he would be leaving

 

[lemongrass]

But could a husband not argue that he had to teach his wife a lesson.

I dont understand why children wouldnt be given the same respect a adult would. They are still people.

I remember being threatened with this as a child but they never actually did it. I just cant understand why it would ever be ok.

I want my children to do the right thing because they understand why they should not because i degrade and punish them into it

I don't think husbands or wives have the right to teach each other lessons by punishment. It isn't their job, responsibility or place in the way that parents do for children. While I don't think I would wash my kids mouth out with soap, and certainly not for a 2 year old, but an 8 or 10 year old kid? Not abusive in my opinion. A bit of soap isn't going to hurt you. I had it done to me and I have no hard feelings about it. Some kids eat soap for fun!

 

[staralfur]

I can see why robinator was surprised that someone would call social services for someone putting soap in their kid's mouth...tbh I'm not sure they'd do anything about it at all here.

It's a verrry old-fashioned idea and I think it's terrible but I'd also be hesitant to classify it as "abuse". I think that's a strong word.

Edit: I guess for me it depends on the age a bit, too, like a PP mentioned. Big difference between a 2 year old and a 12 year old. I wouldn't do it to either but it's definitely BEYOND inappropriate to do that to a 2 year old.

 

[fidgets mammy]

Personally i think anything you purposely do to yr child that u know will inflict pain or suffereing is wrong.

Its a tqctic to scare and qiute frankly i dont want my kids to be scared of me. Its mutual respect in my house.

My mil done some horrid things to oh when he was a child and hes still affected now.

 

[lemongrass]

I don't think that soap would cause pain or suffering. It was unpleasant but didn't hurt like hot sauce- that is abuse IMO. Punishments are meant to be unpleasant or else they wouldn't work. Time outs are unpleasant and so are a talking-to and thats why they are used.

 

[Jaylynne]

I've had soap put in my mouth when I was 5. Not abuse. Hot sauce would be more like abuse. That actually burns and can cause an allegic reaction and way too severe for a toddler.

And no, my husband wouldn't do that to me because he is my equal not my instructor or authority figure.

Geez, with everything classified as abuse, how are children corrected?! Is the time-out corner abuse now too?

 

[Leesy]

I don't agree with it either. My fiance had soap put in his mouth as a child and just the other day he got soap in his mouth in the shower (don't know how a grown man managed that lol) and he seriously said it took him back to child memories when he felt abused having soap put in his mouth. Personally I would put it in the category of abuse, just don't agree with it.

 

[TriChick]

A husband's job is not to discipline his wife, so I personally don't think the comparison is spot on.

My grandparents did it to me as a child, I would hardly consider it abuse. Crappy and maybe not the most pleasant experience, yes. But they are the last people on Earth that would be classified as child abusers. People are SO quick to call other parents "abusive" for anything. With it being such a SERIOUS accusation, I'm surprised its so easy for mothers to say it about one another.

 

[TriChick]

I've had soap put in my mouth when I was 5. Not abuse. Hot sauce would be more like abuse. That actually burns and can cause an allegic reaction and way too severe for a toddler.

And no, my husband wouldn't do that to me because he is my equal not my instructor or authority figure.

Geez, with everything classified as abuse, how are children corrected?! Is the time-out corner abuse now too?

I've seen any form of "shaming" considered abuse these days:-/ Personally, I will chose to discipline my LO along the same lines I was. My grandparents were the bosses, warm and incredibly affectionate, yet stern and authoritative when need be. They loved me to the ends of the Earth, and yet still prepared me for the harsh realities of the real world once I left the nest. I have been forever grateful for that.

 

[suzib76]

I've had soap put in my mouth when I was 5. Not abuse. Hot sauce would be more like abuse. That actually burns and can cause an allegic reaction and way too severe for a toddler.

And no, my husband wouldn't do that to me because he is my equal not my instructor or authority figure.

Geez, with everything classified as abuse, how are children corrected?! Is the time-out corner abuse now too?

Correcting children is different to frightening them

I would much rather my children did not swear because I taught them not to, not because I scared the shit out of them

An adult using fear to control a child = abuse

 

[Andypanda6570]

I have threatened to do it when my kids were younger , but I never have and certainly not on a 2yr old.

 

[TriChick]

I've had soap put in my mouth when I was 5. Not abuse. Hot sauce would be more like abuse. That actually burns and can cause an allegic reaction and way too severe for a toddler.

And no, my husband wouldn't do that to me because he is my equal not my instructor or authority figure.

Geez, with everything classified as abuse, how are children corrected?! Is the time-out corner abuse now too?

Correcting children is different to frightening them

I would much rather my children did not swear because I taught them not to, not because I scared the shit out of them

An adult using fear to control a child = abuse

Fear? I don't remember being frightened as much as upset that I was being punished. I don't think my grandparents ever scared the shit out of me, to be honest. They tried their hardest to teach me to be polite and not swear, however kids swear a lot around each other and often I would pick it right back up when I went to school.

This is not saying that I condone the practice of soap for a two year old, nor is it something that I may chose to do to Harrison (I only had it done a couple times, it was not their first choice in parenting techniques), however I believe that some of these reactions are blown out of proportion. Soap and disciplinary techniques aside, I would like my child to have SOME fear that if they act out of line, they will be punished. I do not want my child to "fear me", rather respect that ,as their parent, I do retain some authority over them. He will know that I love him dearly, and though he may not always like me in certain situations, he will look back in retrospect and be grateful that I raised him to be a productive member of society and prepared him for the world.

Just my personal feeling. There are many ways to raise a child, not just one.

 

[robinator]

Well said, TriChick.

 

[freckleonear]

People who were physically punished as a child tend to view it in one of two ways. Either they are traumatised by it, or they accept it as an appropriate punishment.

I remember being taken to the bathroom to have my mouth washed out with soap, although I don't remember whether or not it actually happened in the end. It isn't a bad memory, and my memories of being smacked are not in the slightest bit traumatic either. In fact, I was a strong supporter of smacking until just a few years ago. I had loving parents who did what they believed was best for me, and as a result my childhood was very happy.

I think that how children remember and interpret punishments depends much more on the overall parenting than on a single event. I certainly don't think that my parents abused me, but someone else who had been through the same punishments with different parenting might arrive at a different answer. So perhaps "abuse" is not the most helpful term to use because it is very emotive and depends on so much more than whether or not physical punishment is used.

Personally I find it more helpful to consider it in terms of right and wrong. Did my parents abuse me? No. Were they wrong to smack me/wash my mouth out with soap? Yes. They did the best they could with the knowledge they had at the time, but looking back I now believe that using physical violence towards another person is always wrong.

It's very easy as a parent to find yourself resorting to punishments, because they do work! I sometimes find myself doing it when I've run out of ideas simply because it is the easiest way to make my children do what I want! However, the reason that they are so effective is because the child fears or dislikes the consequence and is therefore motivated to avoid that consequence, rather than understanding why they should or shouldn't do something. It encourages them to focus on the consequences to themselves, rather than others. It causes them to be dishonest by displaying one behaviour openly and hiding another. It teaches them that you can control weaker people by using fear and physical force. I'm not saying that punishments have no place at all in discipline, but I do think they are very much overused.