Spouses with low sperm count.

[Our Secret]

Hi ladies,

Just joined B & B because I've found a few threads I really identify with so wanted to say hello. My husband and I have been TTC for 1 year 5 months and have just had the 3rd set of SA results (very low). I have been doing everything I can possibly think of to get myself in top baby making condition, eating well and not drinking much etc but not got anywhere. Hubby wasn't doing much to help until start of this year when he started eating better and drinking less but doesn't seem to have had any impact on SA. Somewhat frustrating but hopeful a solution can be found soon as beginning to loose patience....and this is only the start.

I know it was naive, but I honestly didn't think we would have any significant problems conceiving and am finding it difficult to get my head around it. Why is it so easy for some and so hard for others.

First hospital visit next week and not sure what to expect. Best of luck everyone on your journeys.

 

[lisap2008]

Sorry its been a long time since I have posted here, my DH stopped the tamoxifen because while his count was increasing his morphology and motility went downhill its been 5 months since he stopped it and his count quickly went back to where we had started.

He is now taking 5000mg life flo Maca gold ,1000mg L carnitine and 1000mg L arginine all in powder form in a fruit smoothie every morning. ( he hates pills and I found out most vitamins can be bought in powder form and mixed in a smoothie) and his motility and morphology is great now I just hope it improves his count as well and his semen volume is still really low.

 

[Regalpeas]

Welcome Oursecret welcome! I'm right with you. I've wondered the same and my DH was slow to move as well. But don't lose faith. I am slowly learning this TTC waiting game is about perseverance! Good luck with your hospital visit. Pray everything works out well.

Lisap thanks for the update dh and I are soon to start fert vits together. I've heard great things about Maca and you've confirmed more. Here's hoping your dh's count improves and semen volume too.

 

[lisap2008]

Welcome Oursecret welcome! I'm right with you. I've wondered the same and my DH was slow to move as well. But don't lose faith. I am slowly learning this TTC waiting game is about perseverance! Good luck with your hospital visit. Pray everything works out well.

Lisap thanks for the update dh and I are soon to start fert vits together. I've heard great things about Maca and you've confirmed more. Here's hoping your dh's count improves and semen volume too.

Thank you!,he has only been on the supplements about a month and the maca for about 3 weeks so I am hoping they help more.
here are a few articles:
https://l-arginineguide.com/effects-of-l-arginine-on-sperm.html
https://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/news/20050309/sperm-swim-better-with-carnitine
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11753476

 

[Our Secret]

Thank you for the kind and reassuring words Regalpeas. I discovered this week that the hospital appointment I thought I would be attending next week will not be happening due to booking error with online system. I think this is going to be hard work, but hopefully it will be worth it.

Do you mind me asking what the situation is with you and your partner? How long have you been trying and what are the next steps for you?

It is lovely to be able to talk to people going through similar.

Happy weekend

 

[lyns148]

Hi Ladies

I hope its ok if I join you, I was so glad to find this thread because I have been looking for somewhere to find a little support. We have been TTC for 19 months now and its been quite a rocky road. I went to my dr after 9 months thinking the problem was with me and she suggested a SA just to check and discovered there is very little chance we will manage this on our own. First SA results:

Volume - 3.5ml
pH - 8
Rapid progressive motility - 45-50%
Sluggish progressive motility - 1-5%
Non progressive motility - 0%
Immotility - 40-45%
Count - 1 million per ml

I find these numbers all so confusing!! But obviously out biggest worry for us is the count. We've been to our local assisted conception unit and had lots of tests carried out and the conclusion was that ICSI is the best option for us. Unfortunately the wait for this is 22 months (!!!) from the time of referral so we're looking at this time in 2013. I'm just not sure how I'm going to get through another year!

I'm hoping you all know where I'm coming from when I say I'm so sad that we're having to deal with this. I can't really speak to DH as I don't want to make him feel any worse than he already does. The few friends that know and that I can talk to just keep telling me to be positive and that they're 100% sure this will work for us. Its so hard because it doesn't leave my mind for a second and everywhere I go I feel there are pregnant woman or babies!!!

I hope you are all having good days today...babydust to everyone xx

Hi lyns

Of course welcome and hope your ok. I know it is so sad to be told that your chances of concieving naturally are small. However there is sperm there and we have to be thankful for that. Your DH's rapid motility is great and a while ago there was someone on this site who conceived naturally and her DH's count was about a million. Your are on the waiting list and in the meantime get your bloke on this vitamins, eat healthy, enjoy sex and you never know. I am also in scotland but my gp wont refer us because we conceived Dec 2011 (miscarried). Pretty rubbish to know that when we do get referred it will be a long wait. Babydust to you xxx

Sorry I've been awol a while but thanks so much for your reply dreaminhopin. That was just what I needed to hear! Your words really hit home. I have everything crossed that if you were able to conceive on your own once you can do it again.

I had a bit of a rubbish week last week because AF was 4 days late which obviously had me hoping, and my temperatures looked better than they ever have. Usually AF arrives 7dpo with a day or two of spotting but this month it arrived 12dpo, although there was 4 days of spotting but I think this may be progress. Although I was gutted because despite trying to talk myself into being sensible and cautious about what was happening I couldn't help but wish that this might be it for us!

DH is on vitamins and generally eats well and drinks only occasionally but we haven't had a SA since he started this so we've no idea whats happening with his count. We're off on holiday next month so hoping some relaxing and sunshine might give us both a little boost.

Hope everyone is doing ok. This is definitely the hardest thing we've ever had to deal with but chatting to you ladies who understand really helps. I hope you are all finding the same too.

Babydust to everyone xx

 

[dreaminghopin]

Evening ladies

Just wanted to share dh's latest sperm results (first report 15th feb, second report 11th april) Big improvements with count and motility although morphology has reduced.*

Vol 3 mls now 2.7mls (normal 2mls)
Concentration: 14 million ml to 34 ml
Rapid progressive 17% to 46%
morphology 5% to 2%

DH plays a lot of sport, doesnt smoke. The last 2 months he has been taken wellmans, macca, zinc and vit c. He has changed to boxers and stopped drinking tea / coffee. So ladies there does seem to be plenty we can do.*

Concerned that morphology has reduced and hope vitamins aren't having a detrimental affect. Otherwise pretty happy. Other thing that might have made a difference was that sperm was tested 50 mins after collection, previous occasions was 75 mins after collection.*

 

[GeorgiaBelle]

Dreaminghopin,

Congratulations on the big improvement in your DH's counts!

The confusion you have over the drop in his morphology is something I can share with you. My DH had his best morphology was 4% and that was on his first and what was his worst SA. Doesn't make sense. His morphology on his second SA was 2%, then 3%, and on his last one 2%.

He started taking the Pycnogenol which is supposed to help improve his morphology. He had been taking it for only a month and 8 days before his last SA. I was hoping we would see more of an increase in his morphology. I guess I should give it 3 months.

I started researching once more about other ways to improve his morphology. I came across this blog -

https://infertilityblog.blogspot.com/2006/05/sperm-morphology-mythology.html

"Thursday, May 04, 2006

Sperm Morphology Mythology

This week I saw a couple who were told the reason they were not getting pregnant was “bad morphology”. The sperm, they were told, could not penetrate the egg because of the abnormal shape of the sperm. Because of this, they would need to go directly to in vitro fertilization with ICSI. This was in spite of the fact that they were young, had normal hormone levels and open tubes. I’ll tell you what I told them.

When we test sperm (the semen analysis) we look at a few different parameters. First is the volume, which should be 2cc or higher. Second is the count. This is the number of sperm per cc, so it’s technically a measure of the sperm concentration. This should be 20 million per cc or higher. The average is around 35 million. Next is the motility: the percentage of sperm moving. Should be 50%, most normal samples are not much higher. And then there is the morphology: the percentage of sperm normally shaped. This should be 14% or higher. The average is 2-6%, but why?

The original guidelines for sperm parameters, from the WHO, stated normal morphology should be 30%. Then about 20 years ago, Dr. Kruger came out and said we really need to be looking more carefully at sperm shapes. If we are really careful we will see that there are more abnormal sperm than we think, and the cutoff should be 14%. He called his classification "strict criteria". He also said that by being more careful we could better identify the men who are infertile due to badly shaped sperm. This all sounded well so the andrologists (the people who do your sperm test) started looking harder, and harder, and harder. They now deduct for every sperm that does not look perfect. So over the past 20 years, the andrologists have been getting pickier and pickier, and now a man is lucky if his morphology is over 5%, and almost everyone is less than 14%.

Obviously this has all gone too far. We are telling almost all men that their sperm is abnormal, and that just can’t be. The fact is we do not know what a normal sperm looks like. More on this next time.

posted by Dr. Licciardi at 7:57 AM"

Hope this gives you some hope back.

 

[GeorgiaBelle]

Dreaminghopin,

Hope you won't mind another post from me. I was looking around some more on the doctor's blog and found this -

https://infertilityblog.blogspot.com/search?q=morphology

"Thursday, July 01, 2010

Sperm Morphology: New Guidelines Announced: 4% is Normal
Wow, what a relief to know that what we have been saying for years is now finally officially stated. Any sperm morphology over 3% is considered normal.

How did this change come about? The World Health Organization (WHO) determines the normal parameters for semen including volume, count, motility, forward progression and morphology. The WHO published their guidelines in 1987, with updates in 1992 and 1999. The original “normal” cutoffs were based on estimates from old data, some of it dating back to the 1950’s. There were inconsistencies in the way data was collected, ie the sperm studied was collected and analyzed in many centers, but there was little regulation of how the tests were being performed. Plus there was not clear data on the history of the men.

This time the semen tests were performed using similar protocols in all of the testing centers. Plus, some history was obtained from the men, mostly related to fertility status.

4500 men in 14 countries on 4 continents were tested. Australia, China, Denmark, Germany, Chile, Singapore, France, the UK, and the USA were some of the countries included.

Men were placed into one of 4 groups.
Fertile men. All men in this group had initiated a pregnancy sometime in the 12 months preceding testing. This was the most important group because the researchers could establish normal values based on men know to have fertile sperm.
There were 3 other groups evaluated. To save a little confusion, I’ll summarize and say 2 groups were a little more random in nature and the fertility status of the men was mostly unknown. The 4th group was also fertile, but the time since last pregnancy was unknown and may have been longer than 12 months.

The results.
The normal fertile men’s sperm had the following results.
Volume: The median (midway between the lowest and highest results) was 3.7 cc, but anything over 1.5 cc was considered normal
Concentration: the median was 73 million but anything over 15 million was considered normal
Motility: the median was 61%, anything over 40% being normal
Morphology: the median was 15%, anything over 3% was deemed normal.

Some important points.
You may have noticed that morphology is not the only parameter with a new normal value. Volume was at 2.0 cc, now it is at 1.5cc. A normal count was 20 million, this changed to 15 million. Motility was 50%, now it’s 40%. The normal morphology had the biggest change, as it went from 15% to 4%.

Keep in mind that in this group, all of these men were fertile, so even men with levels lower than the new definition of normal had working sperm. The normal values were established mathematically. If you were in the upper 95% of the fertile people you were deemed normal. The bottom 5% of the fertile people was deemed abnormal. This 95%/5% cutoff is the system used to define cut offs for other tests such as TSH, Prolactin and many others.

When comparing the different groups of men there were very slight differences in volume, count, etc, but hardly worth mentioning. Fertile men did have slightly higher volume and counts then men whose fertility status was unknown. Morphology was mostly similar in the different groups. Remember, there was no group of men who had established infertility, so in this study there is no way to compare normal fertile men to known infertile men.

And even though we have no details on the women, knowing that they became pregnant in the past year is probably all the information we need.

So now you know. Any morphology over 3% is considered normal. If your doctor tells you otherwise, ask him if he has seen the new WHO guidelines.

To take it one step farther, can there really be difference between 4% and 2%? I doubt that there is a difference between having 96% abnormally shaped sperm and 98% abnormally shaped sperm. So as I have said before, at our practice here at NYU, morphology is not considered with much respect, except in some rare cases where the sperm is unusually abnormal.

I hope this helps.

For those of you who want more details, here is the link.

www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/infertility/cooper_et_al_hru.pdf

Dr. Licciardi
Email this

posted by Dr. Licciardi at 7:25 AM"

 

[redcolabottle]

Hi ladies

Hope you're all doing well. I've been trying not to think about TTC for a while as we waited for DH's results.

We've got some improvements on volume and count (I think) and also on motility and morphology I think. It's hard to compare because the results are shown in such different ways. I'm trying to work out what to compare... any help very welcome!

Previous SA in January 2012 was

1.1 ml volume
17m concentration
18.7 total number
0% progressive
24% non progressive
76% immotile
2% normal forms
Incomplete liquefaction
Abnormal viscosity

Now - March Results

3.2 ml volume
28.48m total sperm count
2/4 progression
5% normal forms - morphology
41% motility
Viscocity normal
8.9 Density
1.2 cells
Mar test negative
WBC/RBC/Spermatids Debris ++

Hormones
4.4 FSH
4.2 LH
190 Prolactin
19.0 Testosterone

Anyone able to clearly compare these I'd love your help.

We've been eating healthy (a lot more vegetables and a lot less meat, coffee, sugar which DH is finding hard), he's also taking Fertility Support for Men vitamins and not wearing tight boxers anymore.

We're on the NHS in London so they said we could try Clomid but that it would have side effects. We've decided not to do that for now. Any advice on that?

And they're putting us on the waiting list for ICSI/IUI etc as the count is still below normal although its improved.

Sending you all baby dust and hoping we get our BFPs soon.

 

[lisap2008]

Congrats on the improvement!.

My DH had a infected tooth pulled last week so hopefully it helps things I know a infection anywhere in the body can effect sperm.

I am late for AF & having symptoms but not getting my hopes up .

 

[MrsCompass]

Hello Everyone - It's been awhile since I've been on here. But wanted to bring some good news but unfortunately, it comes with bad news.

Goodnews is that we got our BFP with 5 million post wash count on our first IUI ... bad news is that we mc at 6.5 weeks.

My DH has been working so hard looking after his boys. Vitamins .. working out ... diet .. keeping them cool and we recently added chiropractor into the mix. Anyone tried chiropractor?

Wishing everyone a BFP and baby dust!!!

 

[Regalpeas]

I heard this too. My dh had a root canal recently. I was told that the infection can still be present because they keep the tooth in the mouth. I have asked him if he was willing to have it removed. No sure if he will at this point.

Hope the removal helps your hubby as well!!!

Congrats on the improvement!.

My DH had a infected tooth pulled last week so hopefully it helps things I know a infection anywhere in the body can effect sperm.

I am late for AF & having symptoms but not getting my hopes up .

 

[Regalpeas]

Sorry for your loss.

Hello Everyone - It's been awhile since I've been on here. But wanted to bring some good news but unfortunately, it comes with bad news.

Goodnews is that we got our BFP with 5 million post wash count on our first IUI ... bad news is that we mc at 6.5 weeks.

My DH has been working so hard looking after his boys. Vitamins .. working out ... diet .. keeping them cool and we recently added chiropractor into the mix. Anyone tried chiropractor?

Wishing everyone a BFP and baby dust!!!

 

[redcolabottle]

So sorry to hear your bad news RegalPeas but it's great that the IUI worked, hopefully this means that IUI2 will be the time you get your baby. Have fingers and toes crossed for you.

 

[dreaminghopin]

Hi everyone

MrsCompas so sorry about your miscarriage. How are you feeling? When is your next iui? Sending the stickiest kind of baby dust to you.*

Oursecret have u managed to rearrange your appointment? Glad your dh is getting on board with lifestyle changes. We have seen a lot of improvement with vitamins and cutting down on caffeine. My dh was pretty healthy before ttc and we didn't think there was much we could do to *improve things but he did like his cups of tea and the odd cappuccino at the office.*

Lisap oh exciting.. Have u tested. It would be great to get a bfp on this thread. glad to see improvement in count and motility. Is there anything that can be done to improve volume? Does abstaining help?

Lyns sorry u got your hopes up last month but looks like you had a nice long leutal phase which is only a good thing.**when was your dh's last sample? Are you planning on getting another one? enjoy your holiday

Georgiebell thanks for posting those articles, very reassuring.*

Redcolabottle results have def improved. I know it's so hard to interpret at times. All parameters look good apart from total count. I Think guidelines state that total count should be more than 40 mill but def in right direction and not too far off.*

Regalpeas hope the dental work improves those swimmers.*

We had a consultation at a fertility clinic last night. This was mainly because I often have irregular bleeding and was getting a bit stressed with Nhs waiting times. Anyway part of the consultation involved dh providing another sperm sample and we have seen some more improvement in count and morphology but reduction in motility.

Vol 3.1*
Conc per ml 43 mil (previously been 1 million, 14 million, 33 million)
Morph 10%(previously been 5% and 2%)
motility 36% (previous been 17% and 50%)

So ladies sperm does vary and it really appears that vitamins can make a difference (dh taking multi vit, wellman, macca, zinc and vit c).

 

[MrsCompass]

Dreaminhopin - thank you for your thoughts. I'm feeling much better as I know my 2nd IUI is coming up soon! I'm just currently on a BCP break and I have 12 pills to go and once I get my period we start IUI.

Congratulations on that 14 million and 33 million count!!! Goes to show you that the count can vary. YAY for that!!! I hope we get a big count on our second IUI. MY DH is currently taking USANA vitamins, Zinc, CoEnzymeQ10, VitaminC, Selenium and is working out regularly to maintain a healthy weight. I am so proud of him. He's definitely working as hard as I am to make this work and puts up with my moodiness that all of the hormonal pills bring me.

Cheers to all of our DH's!!!

 

[dreaminghopin]

Glad your feeling a bit better. I know what you mean.. My dh really struggles popping those vitamins every morning but doesn't complain,

 

[Our Secret]

Looks like I'm the only one awake this Sunday morning. Hope you had a good

dreaminghopin, I got a letter through from the hospital (NHS) confirming a new appointment time at the end of June yesterday. I didn't get a choice on appointment times, they've just booked me in. Have to admit that we are now looking into the private route considering the muck up with appointments last time.

Well done to you and your hubby for getting his count up, that's impressive! And to everyone else who has managed to work to get some improvement.

We are still trying our best too, but it does get a bit boring doesn't it Some people are so lucky, a couple of months ttc and they are there and can move on. Feeling in limbo land at the moment x

 

[Everythingxxx]

Hi girls, hope u don't mind me joining... My Hubby and I been ttc for nearly 2 yrs now, very low sperm count (3million) n motility low too so after much searching and trying different 'wonder tablets' I've kinda accepted it isn't going to happen naturally for us although every month I do still pray for a miracle. We have now had our first icsi appt thru nhs and waiting time is approx another 17 months, at the moment I'm feelin so down, terrified it's never going to be us, another close friend has just gotten pregnant (1st month tryin) n I can feel myself drifting away from my friends thru no fault of theirs simply because it gets harder n harder to deal with our own personal heartache each time. If I was a child I'd be lying on floor stamping feet just now - IT'S NOT FAIR! Hope u all don't mind me ventin here from time to time, my husband is wonderful but I don't like him to see me gettin too upset as I feel he blames himself and that's the last thing I want xx