The responsibilty of a parent ...

[angelandbump]

Sorry OT this is off topic but replying to some posts!

The problem is the stigma!

If your parent was a teen parent then you are more likely to be a teen parent. If your parents grow up on benefits then when that child grows up they will most likely be the same bla bla bla!!. In a way to me that gives the impression that 'that’s ok!'

In this country, we all get a free education and it is the same education across the board. There is no excuse not to exceed in life unless a person has a disability which impairs their learning ability. It is down to the person - If you are lazy, don't study and don't care if you pass as you know the benefit system will pay then you will become nothing in life. I had to work so hard in school even do weekend study classes to pass all my GCSE's and get a job. We all have opportunities in life, we just have to grab them.

My dad has received his 90 day redundancy notice as his company hasn't made a profit for the last 3 years. Instead of mopping around, he has applied for over 20 jobs and has 4 interviews lined up. He would tell you him self, he would rather shovel sh!t then have his family go with out.
I'm sorry but I see no excuse not to work and pay your way unless your partner/family can financially support you or you are caring for someone. There are many many jobs out there, people just needs to be less picky.

 

[tallybee]

Completely agree with TattiesMum's last post

Sorry OT this is off topic but replying to some posts!

The problem is the stigma!

If your parent was a teen parent then you are more likely to be a teen parent. If your parents grow up on benefits then when that child grows up they will most likely be the same bla bla bla!!. In a way to me that gives the impression that 'that’s ok!'

In this country, we all get a free education and it is the same education across the board. There is no excuse not to exceed in life unless a person has a disability which impairs their learning ability. It is down to the person - If you are lazy, don't study and don't care if you pass as you know the benefit system will pay then you will become nothing in life. I had to work so hard in school even do weekend study classes to pass all my GCSE's and get a job. We all have opportunities in life, we just have to grab them.

My dad has received his 90 day redundancy notice as his company hasn't made a profit for the last 3 years. Instead of mopping around, he has applied for over 20 jobs and has 4 interviews lined up. He would tell you him self, he would rather shovel sh!t then have his family go with out.
I'm sorry but I see no excuse not to work and pay your way unless your partner/family can financially support you or you are caring for someone. There are many many jobs out there, people just needs to be less picky.

Of course there is the tendency for people to follow patterns their parents did ...

However I can't agree with the statement that we all get the same education across the board. Even within state schools there are huge differences in the quality, deprived areas tend to do worse on average, not everyone gets the same opportunities by a long shot

It is interesting how a debate about taking responsibility turns into one about benefits. To me it's about far more than having money/where that money comes from. Rich people also dump their kids on others. It could be argued that some rich people (not all!) make their fortunes in ways that are more damaging to society than benefit scams... but that's another debate!

My mum used to tell me some tragic stories about kids she taught music to (at a very expensive fee paying school), some of them seemed to me to be the most neglected souls I've heard of. Their parents paid to stick them in boarding school because they didn't want them around, some of them from the age of 6, and through the holidays too . (Not saying all parents who choose boarding school for their children are like this! Just a handful my mum told me about from her experience )

Anyway sorry a bit O/T there

 

[ahcigar1]

Completely agree with TattiesMum's last post

Sorry OT this is off topic but replying to some posts!

The problem is the stigma!

If your parent was a teen parent then you are more likely to be a teen parent. If your parents grow up on benefits then when that child grows up they will most likely be the same bla bla bla!!. In a way to me that gives the impression that 'that’s ok!'

In this country, we all get a free education and it is the same education across the board. There is no excuse not to exceed in life unless a person has a disability which impairs their learning ability. It is down to the person - If you are lazy, don't study and don't care if you pass as you know the benefit system will pay then you will become nothing in life. I had to work so hard in school even do weekend study classes to pass all my GCSE's and get a job. We all have opportunities in life, we just have to grab them.

My dad has received his 90 day redundancy notice as his company hasn't made a profit for the last 3 years. Instead of mopping around, he has applied for over 20 jobs and has 4 interviews lined up. He would tell you him self, he would rather shovel sh!t then have his family go with out.
I'm sorry but I see no excuse not to work and pay your way unless your partner/family can financially support you or you are caring for someone. There are many many jobs out there, people just needs to be less picky.

Of course there is the tendency for people to follow patterns their parents did ...

However I can't agree with the statement that we all get the same education across the board. Even within state schools there are huge differences in the quality, deprived areas tend to do worse on average, not everyone gets the same opportunities by a long shot

It is interesting how a debate about taking responsibility turns into one about benefits. To me it's about far more than having money/where that money comes from. Rich people also dump their kids on others. It could be argued that some rich people (not all!) make their fortunes in ways that are more damaging to society than benefit scams... but that's another debate!

My mum used to tell me some tragic stories about kids she taught music to (at a very expensive fee paying school), some of them seemed to me to be the most neglected souls I've heard of. Their parents paid to stick them in boarding school because they didn't want them around, some of them from the age of 6, and through the holidays too . (Not saying all parents who choose boarding school for their children are like this! Just a handful my mum told me about from her experience )

Anyway sorry a bit O/T there

I have to say I disagree with the bolded print. All public schools are required to teach the same ciriculum. It is the students lack of wanting to learn and cause trouble and disruptions that makes the school's scores lower than others. I am speaking from personal experience.

Where I used to go to school the school district would bus some east end (middle/upper class income) kids to the west end (lower class income) and vice versa. At my own school (on the east end) was about 70% west end students. And I can speak from personal experience that most (NOT all, but most) of the west end kids were the trouble makers, disrupters, cutting classes, and ultimately failing. Not because they were recieving a lower education but because of thier general lack of interest and I don't care attitude.

Right now more and more parents are doing home schooling or sending thier kids to private schools because of the disturbances that are being caused, and the fact that kids are having to be on school buses for an hour at a time at least. And also because of these transfers the east end school scores have dropped drastically and the west end scores still sit in the same spot that they were before.

So no it isn't the schools it is the students and thier general lack of respect and interest.

 

[TattiesMum]

I have to say I disagree with the bolded print. All public schools are required to teach the same ciriculum. It is the students lack of wanting to learn and cause trouble and disruptions that makes the school's scores lower than others. I am speaking from personal experience.

Where I used to go to school the school district would bus some east end (middle/upper class income) kids to the west end (lower class income) and vice versa. At my own school (on the east end) was about 70% west end students. And I can speak from personal experience that most (NOT all, but most) of the west end kids were the trouble makers, disrupters, cutting classes, and ultimately failing. Not because they were recieving a lower education but because of thier general lack of interest and I don't care attitude.

Right now more and more parents are doing home schooling or sending thier kids to private schools because of the disturbances that are being caused, and the fact that kids are having to be on school buses for an hour at a time at least. And also because of these transfers the east end school scores have dropped drastically and the west end scores still sit in the same spot that they were before.

So no it isn't the schools it is the students and thier general lack of respect and interest.

I think the interesting thing to ask is WHY?

Why do pupils (children) from a poorer background often have a lack of attention and apparent unwillingness to learn?

Is it because their homes are overcrowded and they have nowhere to study at home? Is it because their own parents are intellectually unable to support them with learning? Is it because from an early age (studies show from the age of 3) they have been aware that they are 'below' others in an economic sense and thus 'give up' before they have even got started with the education system?

I would suspect that it's all of the above and more ... and in a sense - because that poverty trap may have gone on for generations - their parents will have grown up with the same lack of hope and so are incapable of driving their children towards a better future

Lack of hope kills ambition before it even starts sadly

 

[redpoppy]

I think society should help and support parent both financially if they need it and in other ways with community centres and courses etc.

I think single mums are amazing and should get every scratch of benefit money they get and more.

I think society should go back to a time where community and family support where taken for granted. Where you could raise your child with lots of extended people who loved them. Where you could go out and your child would be looked after and loved and nurtured and you would not worry.

I would like women who choose to stay at home and look after their children to be respected just as much as those who go out and work and for society to recognise and respect that some mothers believe they can raise their children better than anyone else.

But if a mother wants to work and her pay cannot support childcare she should get help.

I think a two year old is not naughty but boisterous as two year olds have not developed impulse control.

I also think I agree with your sentiment and think you're probably an amazing mum. And yes there are people who whine and moan constantly and don't take responsibility and wind me up. There are people who are lazy and take advantage of every opportunity they can get. But in my experience (and maybe I'm lucky) they are outnumbered by the better kind. Although I do think like attracts like so you're likely to find them in bunches.

And for the record I'm not on benefits (except child benefit till next year) and the first time me and OH went out was last week to watch a film and come straight home while his mum looked after LO while she slept.

 

[Natsku]

I have to agree with Lightworker about food stamps, they are not a good idea. Money is needed for so much more than just food - rent, medicines, bills etc.

I recently had to go on welfare when I split with FOB. Had no choice, I was homeless so I had to take the first apartment available which was unaffordable for me, rent was more than my monthly income. It would be horrible to have to use food stamps, there's already enough stigma against being a single mother, would be even worse if everyone knew I was on welfare too. And if I had an older child it would be horrible for them and could lead to them getting bullied.

I don't know how the system works in the US and the UK - do people get regular income checks and spending checks? Here I have to give my bank statement over every month (people don't use cash here usually so every transaction is recorded on the bank statement so they can see what you're spending your money on. Liquor can only be bought in state run Alko stores so they can see if you're wasting your money on booze) and every incoming and outgoing is carefully calculated each month to make sure you are receiving the right amount of money. Usually you get regular meetings with your social worker too to discuss your situation and how you can improve it. If people are in the system long term without trying to improve their situation they get their money cut, first by 20% and then by 40%. I think thats pretty good incentive to find a job but without stigmatising your situation.

 

[alaskagrown]

Food stamps can be a joke in the US. A household of illegal immigrants can qualify for government funded food stamps, as long as 1 member of their household (usually an anchor baby) is a US citizen. Food stamps can be spent on whatever, and it sometimes churns my stomach to see what people spend it on - steaks, lobster, shrimp, bags of candy, ice cream, etc. I saw this a lot when I lived in a part of the US that is notoriously deemed a "welfare state." I wish the program worked more like WIC where they had vouchers for staples such as bread, milk, eggs, cheese, rice, etc. There have been cases recently in the news where people buy cases of bottled water with their food stamps (a waste as it is...), dump the water, get cash for the plastic, and buy booze. Although people can be tracked as to when/where they are spending their food stamps, nothing can really be done about it. They recently came out with a study that found lots of people from places like Georgia, Alabama, etc. cashing in food stamps in far off places including Las Vegas casinos, Hawaii, and Alaska.... In the state of Oregon, you can use your food stamps to buy frappacinos and muffins at Starbucks as well.... needless to say, I'm not too impressed about the system. I'm sure it helps out lots of people, but I think if the government is going to dole out money like that funded by the tax payers, they need to at least crack down on all these outrageous loopholes.

 

[xolily]

i don't know which people some of you know on benefits but i find it hard to believe they afford all those luxuries from their benefits. i have two friends on IS and trust me, neither of them live a life of luxury. anyone on full benefits who appears to be living the life of riley is either 1) in debt upto their eyeballs, 2) working on the side or 3) receiving help from their families.

 

[lovie]

Food stamps can be a joke in the US. A household of illegal immigrants can qualify for government funded food stamps, as long as 1 member of their household (usually an anchor baby) is a US citizen. Food stamps can be spent on whatever, and it sometimes churns my stomach to see what people spend it on - steaks, lobster, shrimp, bags of candy, ice cream, etc. I saw this a lot when I lived in a part of the US that is notoriously deemed a "welfare state." I wish the program worked more like WIC where they had vouchers for staples such as bread, milk, eggs, cheese, rice, etc. There have been cases recently in the news where people buy cases of bottled water with their food stamps (a waste as it is...), dump the water, get cash for the plastic, and buy booze. Although people can be tracked as to when/where they are spending their food stamps, nothing can really be done about it. They recently came out with a study that found lots of people from places like Georgia, Alabama, etc. cashing in food stamps in far off places including Las Vegas casinos, Hawaii, and Alaska.... In the state of Oregon, you can use your food stamps to buy frappacinos and muffins at Starbucks as well.... needless to say, I'm not too impressed about the system. I'm sure it helps out lots of people, but I think if the government is going to dole out money like that funded by the tax payers, they need to at least crack down on all these outrageous loopholes.

I wouldnt say buying icecream and sweets is outrageous

I wont expect anyone but myself and my partner to have responsibility for our baby but I will enjoy the input and involvement of our families. We get 16 months paid parental leave here in sweden and there is no such thing as private education, all education is free even university, there is free healthcare for all. Sweden has very low violent crime and a high level of education. I really beeive that by supporting the family and making them feel like worthy individuals despite their finacial status is best, not just for the family receiving help but also for society. i really think equality makes for happier people, rich and oor, educated and uneducated, young and old.

 

[MikaylasMummy]

I semi agree with the first point about benefits.I don't believe people should PLAN to have kids and live off benefits.however sometimes there a unplanned pregnancies and relationship breakdowns that are unforseen.I think in those instances there is nothing wrong with being on benefits.as well as if there is unforseen unfortunate job loss.however I very strongly believe in our system where you must look for work or study after the child is school age.
The having people look after your kids bit I totally disagree with.if you have willing parents/inlaws then why not have a night or a few hours off every now and then!?my kids LOVE having a sleep over at my mums house and she loves it too.it's great bonding time for them and the kids get lots of undivided attention.and I believe that just because your a parent doesn't mean u can't enjoy the odd occasion out.obviously if no family was willing to mind them I would pay a baby sitter but lots of parents/inlaws love their time with kids!

 

[Natsku]

Vouchers for specific foods wouldn't work for people with allergies/intolerances either. Maria's milk costs twice as much as normal milk and my gluten free bread etc costs 5 times as much as normal.

I think as long as people on benefits are not neglecting their families (i.e. not feeding their children proper meals and clothing them etc.) then they shouldn't be restricted from buying treats such as ice cream if they have a bit left over after essentials.

And I do think its good for family to look after children if they are willing to. Its great for the child to have bonds with their extended family. Even though I split with FOB I keep his family involved with Maria as its important for her and for them to keep that bond.

 

[Feltzy]

i don't know which people some of you know on benefits but i find it hard to believe they afford all those luxuries from their benefits. i have two friends on IS and trust me, neither of them live a life of luxury. anyone on full benefits who appears to be living the life of riley is either 1) in debt upto their eyeballs, 2) working on the side or 3) receiving help from their families.

I have a friend who doesn't have to pay rent or council tax and she gets £360 cash a week on top of that. I feel a bit sorry for her though because she wants to work but doesn't have family to help with her 4 kids and the government have said they won't pay for childcare for all of them as its too expensive, so they've actually told her to wait until they're in school. She certainly doesn't go without though.

 

[Lightworker]

Completely agree with TattiesMum's last post

Sorry OT this is off topic but replying to some posts!

The problem is the stigma!

If your parent was a teen parent then you are more likely to be a teen parent. If your parents grow up on benefits then when that child grows up they will most likely be the same bla bla bla!!. In a way to me that gives the impression that 'that’s ok!'

In this country, we all get a free education and it is the same education across the board. There is no excuse not to exceed in life unless a person has a disability which impairs their learning ability. It is down to the person - If you are lazy, don't study and don't care if you pass as you know the benefit system will pay then you will become nothing in life. I had to work so hard in school even do weekend study classes to pass all my GCSE's and get a job. We all have opportunities in life, we just have to grab them.

My dad has received his 90 day redundancy notice as his company hasn't made a profit for the last 3 years. Instead of mopping around, he has applied for over 20 jobs and has 4 interviews lined up. He would tell you him self, he would rather shovel sh!t then have his family go with out.
I'm sorry but I see no excuse not to work and pay your way unless your partner/family can financially support you or you are caring for someone. There are many many jobs out there, people just needs to be less picky.

Of course there is the tendency for people to follow patterns their parents did ...

However I can't agree with the statement that we all get the same education across the board. Even within state schools there are huge differences in the quality, deprived areas tend to do worse on average, not everyone gets the same opportunities by a long shot

It is interesting how a debate about taking responsibility turns into one about benefits. To me it's about far more than having money/where that money comes from. Rich people also dump their kids on others. It could be argued that some rich people (not all!) make their fortunes in ways that are more damaging to society than benefit scams... but that's another debate!

My mum used to tell me some tragic stories about kids she taught music to (at a very expensive fee paying school), some of them seemed to me to be the most neglected souls I've heard of. Their parents paid to stick them in boarding school because they didn't want them around, some of them from the age of 6, and through the holidays too . (Not saying all parents who choose boarding school for their children are like this! Just a handful my mum told me about from her experience )

Anyway sorry a bit O/T there

I have to say I disagree with the bolded print. All public schools are required to teach the same ciriculum. It is the students lack of wanting to learn and cause trouble and disruptions that makes the school's scores lower than others. I am speaking from personal experience.

Where I used to go to school the school district would bus some east end (middle/upper class income) kids to the west end (lower class income) and vice versa. At my own school (on the east end) was about 70% west end students. And I can speak from personal experience that most (NOT all, but most) of the west end kids were the trouble makers, disrupters, cutting classes, and ultimately failing. Not because they were recieving a lower education but because of thier general lack of interest and I don't care attitude.

Right now more and more parents are doing home schooling or sending thier kids to private schools because of the disturbances that are being caused, and the fact that kids are having to be on school buses for an hour at a time at least. And also because of these transfers the east end school scores have dropped drastically and the west end scores still sit in the same spot that they were before.

So no it isn't the schools it is the students and thier general lack of respect and interest.

I disagree re the equality of education across the board. Yes the curriculum is the same, but the quality of teaching is not and the pupil's attainment isn't either. I don't think it is specifically down to the students causing disruptions etc. I think it usually stems from their home-life. Schools in deprived areas tend to do worse because with poverty comes alot of other disruptions to "normal" life like substance abuse, poor parenting, poor health and hygiene etc which all impact the desire and ability to learn. Some students are very willing to learn but lack that support from home which we know is crucial.

I have read some Ofsted reports from some schools in very deprived areas and this is usually highlighted as the cause for poor attainment and negative school experiences.

It is a myth that education is equal everywhere, it is not. I used to live in a very poor area and therefore by virtue of catchment areas, was restricted to a very poor choice of schools. I have recently moved thank goodness, and now hoping my daughter will get into a school that is at the top of academic performance, rather than at the bottom.

 

[tallybee]

That's what I meant about schools x

 

[smelly07]

i don't know which people some of you know on benefits but i find it hard to believe they afford all those luxuries from their benefits. i have two friends on IS and trust me, neither of them live a life of luxury. anyone on full benefits who appears to be living the life of riley is either 1) in debt upto their eyeballs, 2) working on the side or 3) receiving help from their families.

I have a friend who doesn't have to pay rent or council tax and she gets £360 cash a week on top of that. I feel a bit sorry for her though because she wants to work but doesn't have family to help with her 4 kids and the government have said they won't pay for childcare for all of them as its too expensive, so they've actually told her to wait until they're in school. She certainly doesn't go without though.

I have a friend with two children, doesnt pay rent or council tax and still gets over £1000 in benefits each month, and she isnt in debt, or working on the side, or getting help fom family or abusing the system.
Myself and my husband work, (i work part time) after tax, paying rent and council tax we do not have over £1000 left to live on each month and we dont qualify for any benefits..........go figure!

she said benefits rise with the cost of living, but myself and my partner have not had a payrise in 5 years.......he is a firefighter i work in a pre-school...........so everything is rising apart from our wages so we need to tighten our belts and budgets and people on benefits get extra.
she is better off finacially each month than we are and we have one extra mouth to feed ...........my husbands LOL.......its just madness!

also, children with parents on benefits children get free school meals and do not pay for school trips, instead they bump the price up for working parents which covers the children on benefits!!! (at my daughters school anyhow) where is the incentive to get off benefits when they are better off on them?


About the schools, in my town the not so good areas do tend to have the not so good schools, and on some training i attended recently, it was highlighted that the council are placing the 'same sort' of people in the same areas, there are two areas in my town that are considered the worst and the schools have unsatisfactory ofstead reports, 70% of the children that attend the schools over those two areas english is there 2nd language!, attendancy is extreamly bad.
If a child, can not understand/speak english its going to be very difficult to learn any subject! also if a child is not attending school, they wont learn will they and/or will miss out on alot. x

 

[addie140910]

I am sick of hearing comments about how people should be given more money for their kids, or how people just wash their hands of their kids when they are in trouble, and say "well I can't do anything with them". I am sick of people expecting other to take their kids so they can have a night off etc.

Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against benefits, but I don't think anyone should expect to be given money to raise their children, benefits are their to help in the short-term, not allow people to have as many children as they like and pay for everything.

My eldest child isn't an angel (he is just 2) and there are times when I just wonder what to do, and how to get him to be good, but see it as my responsibility. Kids will be kids and will push boundaries and do wrong, but how many times do you hear parents blaming schools etc, at the end of the day the people who have the most influence of the child should be the parents, and sometimes the child will do wrong no matter how good the parent, but parents can't just give up and not take responsibility.

finally, it would be lovely to have baby sitters and I would take advantage of given the option, but I wouldn't expect anyone to have my child/children, I choose to have them, not my parents/in laws etc, so i respect that they don't take them over night for an evening etc.

Anyway, does anyone agree? Or have another opinion?

- I believe that people should be able to go out for the night, but that if they wanted to do so then they should plan in advance and hire a sitter.. not just all of a sudden drop the kids on someones doorstep and bolt.

-Honestly I wish there was some sort of benefits in the states. Right now we are in Korea, and we do receive WIC which honestly helps loads with healthy eating and such, however OH is the only one who works right now as we cannot afford childcare and so if we were to be given extra money to help with the bills, diapers, wipes, etc I certainly wouldn't turn it down. But like I said I am not sure how that works because we are not offered that.

-It drives me crazy when parents allow their children to scream and throw tantrums etc in the stores and not do anything about it because "They are just kids." Well in the words of my favorite actor Tyler Perry who plays Madea "Just kids end up being just adults who are in just damn jail." I also see it as my responsibility to raise my daughter and wouldn't have it any other way. Parenting wasn't always meant to be fun. Babies / Children are tiny humans, they have to be taught respect, taught how to behave, etc. It's the parents JOB.

 

[JASMAK]

It's such a hard thing to have a concrete opinion about, because there is so many situations and scenarios that are different. I think benefits are necessary. I think, overall, most people who are on benefits, are using them responsibly. I do think there is and always will be, those that abuse benefits either a little, to alot. These people ruin it for those who truly need it. But, I think it's a lot more complex than "people who want to have kids should have a proper job first". I actually think it's quite an ignorant statement. I think if we did a poll on BnB alone, we would see that, I am going to guess, at least 30% of pregnancies are not planned. Being on benefits does not make bad parents either, or raise 'benefit children'. My daughter will likely always be on some sort of benefit as she is disabled, but if she is unable to work and becomes a mother, then I will support her 110% emotionally, and if that includes encouraging her to use benefits, I will. Benefits are not a shameful thing. They are put in place to help those who truly need it.