The responsibilty of a parent ...

[Yammas]

This is why I think food stamps would be a good idea so the money they get HAS to go on what it is intended for and means testing so that those who are just above the limit get the help they need.

Its a bit of aa joke that those who choose not to contribute get the most out of the system. Having jobs available which are flexible enough for those who have children as well as affordable childcare are also part of the problem

 

[smelly07]

i agree benefits shouldnt be given in cash but in other means like stamps.

the job situation/flexibilty/childcare should all be taken into account before having children though or continuing to have children after a possible 'accident'.

 

[Lightworker]

No..not food stamps. The provision of food stamps would be on the basis that the people getting them are not able to spend their money wisely, which is not always the case. Some people are on benefits not because of laziness etc, but a crisis, eg redundancy. Imagine compounding that with the shame that accompanies food stamps. The indignity.

 

[smelly07]

tbh though, people who are using benefit money on luxuries and not spending their money wisely, get away with it because people who have to go on benefits because of redundacy or whatever reason may feel ashamed using stamps?
NO........ they want to feed their children they do whatever they need to, to get food in their childrens stomachs.
the shame, indignity shouldnt even come in to the equation when we are lucky to have the system we have at all......children in the some parts of the world are still starving, i dont think if they had the opportunities for food stamps they would turn their nose up at it because of the shame. x

 

[angelandbump]

I have to agree with smelly07 - Stamps are a great idea but maybe in a form of a "grocery card" If benefit paid the norm 2 adults 2 children £50 per week to go on food (which in my area is more than enough) and if they don't use it all, they can carry it over.
Lightworker, i see what your saying but it works well im america and people use food banks too. Smoking should be a luxury yet i dare say over 60% of people on full benefits smoke and the same goes on alcohol etc. Alot of people (in my area) can not budget (there is a very high % of people who can't even read or do maths) and i do believe if a person is on benefit long term, they should have food stamps or something to that affect.

When they used to have milk tokens, no one here had any shame and the ques were out the door for the women but what else could they do, that paid for their milk. Needs must

 

[Eternal]

I agree with the stamps or card idea, if my husband lost his job tomorrow I would be very greatful for food stamps, it would be nice to know there was "money" for food, even if there wasnt for bills, if that makes sense?

 

[Lightworker]

Wow!

I don't think that this food stamp thing is right at all. In the UK some failed asylum seekers exist on an income that resembles food stamps. They actually have a grocery card which enables them to buy food from only a select few stores. Alot of human rights activists are against this idea for a variety of reasons.

- People that have special dietary requirements like Halal or Kosher food cannot access this type of food.
- If the entire sum of benefits is turned into food stamps, what about the children? Parents won't be able to catch the bus to take them to the park, library, swimming (swimming is free for children but bus ticket not). Recreational activities which every child has a right to, will not be available to these children.

Children of failed asylum seekers are so marginalized due to poverty and lack of cash. The Every Child Matters paper has many provisions about how every child should live, but if ALL your money is in the form of foodstamps how do they live?

Can you imagine being that person? I am all for getting people back into work, in fact, I probably lean towards taking a tough approach than what currently happens, but no, please for the sake of the children of parents on benefits food stamps should not become a reality.

Incidentally in America food stamps are sold on the black market for a fraction of their true value so people can go and get high or whatever.

 

[ahcigar1]

Wow!

I don't think that this food stamp thing is right at all. In the UK some failed asylum seekers exist on an income that resembles food stamps. They actually have a grocery card which enables them to buy food from only a select few stores. Alot of human rights activists are against this idea for a variety of reasons.

- People that have special dietary requirements like Halal or Kosher food cannot access this type of food.
- If the entire sum of benefits is turned into food stamps, what about the children? Parents won't be able to catch the bus to take them to the park, library, swimming (swimming is free for children but bus ticket not). Recreational activities which every child has a right to, will not be available to these children.

Children of failed asylum seekers are so marginalized due to poverty and lack of cash. The Every Child Matters paper has many provisions about how every child should live, but if ALL your money is in the form of foodstamps how do they live?

Can you imagine being that person? I am all for getting people back into work, in fact, I probably lean towards taking a tough approach than what currently happens, but no, please for the sake of the children of parents on benefits food stamps should not become a reality.

Incidentally in America food stamps are sold on the black market for a fraction of their true value so people can go and get high or whatever.

If the people recieve food stamps then that would leave them with extra money for the other things that you are mentioning. But I can almost guarantee you that that isn't what that bit of extra money would be going towards. No instead it would be going towards the kind of luxturies that don't need. Such as cell phones, ipads, fancy clothes, expensive hair cuts, manicures, pedicures, the list goes on and on. Also there is never anything wrong with walking. And save money for the bus on days that it is bad weather or emergencies.

And I don't know about the UK but here in the US food stamps comes on a card that has money put into it and can be used at any store that sells food. There is also another program called WIC that is strictly for milk, formula, and baby food for babies. But you aren't limited to what store you can use them at. The only restriction is that once it is out, its out. So better not waste it on cookies, chips, and candy, which I also have seen time and time again when working as a cashier, then complain when they run out before the month is over.

As said time and time again. Peoples priorities are all screwed up.

 

[Yammas]

I was using food stamps as an example although the pre paid card would be a good system so they are still able to spend freely but within reason.

In a way I think the stigma of bieng on the dole should come back, benefits should not be a viable 'lifestyle choice' whats wrong with doing an honest days work I know people who would look down on me for trying to get a part time job as a cleaner but happily sit at home claiming benefits doing nothing.

We live in a materialistic society unfortunately so there will always be those who want what they dont have.

 

[Lightworker]

In essence the food stamp idea was thought up because people think EVERYONE on benefits is a scrounger, right?

What about someone who has worked for 30 years, suddenly loses their job, their partner dies, and they are forced to go on benefits, is it right that after all those years paying into the system they have to use food stamps, alongside scroungers?

Am I the only person who sees whats wrong with this?

 

[Feltzy]

In essence the food stamp idea was thought up because people think EVERYONE on benefits is a scrounger, right?

What about someone who has worked for 30 years, suddenly loses their job, their partner dies, and they are forced to go on benefits, is it right that after all those years paying into the system they have to use food stamps, alongside scroungers?

Am I the only person who sees whats wrong with this?

No I agree with you. I understand why some people feel the way they do, I get annoyed when I see people playing the system, but its sad that everyone who needs benefits at some point has to deal with the kind of typecasts that they're scroungers/lazy etc. I'm not saying that you guys personally think that but I think there is a lot of negativity directed at people who claim benefits, from all angles. Its too broad a spectrum to say the same for everyone, yes there are people who take the mick out of the system but there are also genuine people who have worked hard and paid their way who need a bit of help.

I'm glad I live in a society where we help those in need, I agree its made too easy for some people to live on benefits through choice and that needs to be dealt with, but I don't think everyone should be punished because of those people.

 

[ahcigar1]

In essence the food stamp idea was thought up because people think EVERYONE on benefits is a scrounger, right?

What about someone who has worked for 30 years, suddenly loses their job, their partner dies, and they are forced to go on benefits, is it right that after all those years paying into the system they have to use food stamps, alongside scroungers?

Am I the only person who sees whats wrong with this?

I do see what you are saying, but I also at the same time do believe that there needs to be more control on it rather than just striking a check every month and saying have at it. There needs to be control on what can be purchased. Regular checks on income. And a time limit. So people are encouraged to get off their butts and at least make an attempt at finding a job. Rather than just saying, oh well I'm bringing in money I can survive, why would I want to work for it. THAT type of mentality is sadly the type that is taking over.

I do realize that it is a bad economy right now, but people have gotten so picky at what they will do for work, its outrageous. I know someone on another board that was complaining because he worked for a place that didn't give him $1000 bonus, and ONLY paid $10/hr for a retail job, that he should have better.

The general public needs to get off thier high horses, realize that no you don't NEED the most recent ipad or playstation, get off your butts and get a job, and quite being a loaf. And if all you have to apply for a stock boy position because that is all that is open, then oh well go for it. But quit being a loaf and a whiner and WORK if you want to get anywhere, and get yourself off the system.

People expect handouts, but actually don't want to have to work for them.

When my Dad got laid off his job 3 years ago he was 57 years old. He is now 60. Nearly hitting the retirement age. He has a permanently broken foot, bad circulation that gives him very high risk for deadly blood clots, and can barely walk, and my parents are barely scraping by since his unemployment checks have run out. Thier savings have deplinished to nothing. Is he being a loaf and saying oh poor me I can't do it, I don't want to do it. That job isn't good enough for me. NO! He applies to jobs that aren't the funnest, and he really doesn't want to do, but he has the mentality of SOMETHING is better than NOTHING.

My Grandpa only JUST retired he has worked every day of his life doing something since he was 14 years old. He is now 92 years old. He figures he has paid his dues, and wants to just enjoy his family.

So to me there is no excuse to be on it permanently and to loaf and be a lazy ass. There are no excuses, period!

There is always something you can try for. The only thing stopping anyone from trying and succeeding is thier own unwillingness and attitude.

 

[smelly07]

lightworker: i do see where you are coming from, i really do but something needs to be done. x

 

[Quackquack99]

I agree with lightworker. I don't think food stamps would be a good idea. I mean many people seem to have a negative image of people on benefits without even knowing their circumstances. I have never been on any benefits, I am not entitled to any but yet for years we have paid into the system and I, personally would feel demoralised using food stamps after years of paying into the system. If people think food stamps exist then really child benefit shouldn't be given in cash but as vouchers to buy nappies and any other baby products, yet I know a few who save that money up.

 

[smelly07]

i guess it depends of peoples own experiences of those on benefits, because 100% of my experience is negative, i know people abuse the system, getting pregnant to get a council house and benefits is the normal thing in my town.........My MIL even advised her daughter to get pregnant to get a house! its crazy......lots of kids leave school as soon as they can and dont work/hang around the streets or get pregnant, alot of my younger brothers friends go to the doctors and say they are depressed to get a note saying they cant work.
Couples pretend to split up and claim benefits as a single parents, i know numerous people do this.

My mum and dad both worked hard all their lives had 4 children to support and a mortgage and it was hard, we went without if they couldnt afford it, when my dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer, we didnt get any help with the mortgage, my mum had to carry on working to pay the mortgage and bills leaving us with very little, no luxuries believe me bare minimum, i remember being 15-16 at the time and acting the role of my mother whilst she was at work looking after my younger brothers whilst taking care of the housework and cooking and watching my dad slowly die, we had NO help, my mum applied to get us a dinner ticket/free meals at school but we were turned down..... i had a nervous breakdown.....it was hard!

i have worked since i was 17, only taking a year out after my first born, my husband works two jobs and we hardly see each other really, we cant afford any more children and we struggle. we only get child benefit which is used only for the girls which is a great help, if that came to me in stamps of any kind i wouldnt give a monkeys, its still help, to buy the girls bits they need, but if they stopped that tommorrow we would have to make do and cut back.

i guess it just pisses me off, that those on benefits...i know have all the latest gadgets, ipads, laptops, kindles, mobile phones, internet, skytv, holidays, new clothes, eat out, take aways, nights out, smoke, drink, can afford pets, cars etc etc

i dont know any real life bianca's.

 

[Eternal]

This wasnt meant to be about benefits, and I dont think anyone is judging anyone on benefits, in todays ecconomy, we all must know of hard working people who have lost jobs and no one denies them anything, that is what the system is for.

Benefits is always going to be a difficult one and there is no way to please everyone but at the end of the day be cant afford to go on like this, No idea what the solution is either as everyday some other compnay is announcing job cuts.

 

[smelly07]

I will just clarify that i i have nothing against people who use the benefit system in a honest way but in my experience its abused because its easy to abuse. People know they will be looked after if they do X Y and Z.

benefits were brought up in the first post of this thread and it does relate to being a responsible parent........ Parents/people need to be responsible for themselves and the children they choose to bring into the world in everyway shape and form x

 

[TattiesMum]

Wow!

I don't think that this food stamp thing is right at all. In the UK some failed asylum seekers exist on an income that resembles food stamps. They actually have a grocery card which enables them to buy food from only a select few stores. Alot of human rights activists are against this idea for a variety of reasons.

- People that have special dietary requirements like Halal or Kosher food cannot access this type of food.
- If the entire sum of benefits is turned into food stamps, what about the children? Parents won't be able to catch the bus to take them to the park, library, swimming (swimming is free for children but bus ticket not). Recreational activities which every child has a right to, will not be available to these children.

Children of failed asylum seekers are so marginalized due to poverty and lack of cash. The Every Child Matters paper has many provisions about how every child should live, but if ALL your money is in the form of foodstamps how do they live?

Can you imagine being that person? I am all for getting people back into work, in fact, I probably lean towards taking a tough approach than what currently happens, but no, please for the sake of the children of parents on benefits food stamps should not become a reality.

Incidentally in America food stamps are sold on the black market for a fraction of their true value so people can go and get high or whatever.

I agree totally ... there is already enough marginalisation in this country between rich and poor ... just look at the latest reports that show we have the worst level of social mobility in the Western World

Children raised in poverty in the UK almost always end up being poor for the rest of their lives .... I can't see how adding the stigma of food stamps into the mix would help to improve the confidence of poorer children so that they can break out of that trap ... children rapidly pick up on that sort of stuff and they can be so cruel to each other

Don't get me wrong, I do think the system could be improved and tightened up, but on the whole I would dispute that anyone living purely on benefits has money for regular luxuries ... if they appear to then there is something dodgy going on - it's really not that much to live on (whatever the Daily Fail might claim )

I've worked since leaving uni in '85 and paid taxes for every one of those 27 years and I can honestly say that there are a LOT of things I begrudge my hard earned £s being spent on, but that the benefit system isn't one of them I'm proud to be part of a society which looks out for everyone ... I'm not particularly pleased that some people take the mickey with it but on balance I'd not spoil the ship for a hap'orth of tar as my Granny used to say

There are plenty of ways that the Gov't could raise money to both pay off debts and maintain the existing benefit system ... immediate withdrawal from both Iraq and Afghanistan, closing tax loopholes, cutting overseas aid, legalising both prostitution and cannabis and taxing them (which would also save money on policing, court time etc) ... but they involve thinking outside the box .... to a large extent the current Gov't demonisation of those on benefits and the benefit system is nothing to do with finances - it's Tory political ideology

 

[Lightworker]

Eternal sorry...I got carried away with the food stamps issue and the benefits, I forgot what this thread was really about.

Re parental responsibility - I think, like a lot of problems today, people tend to want to deal with the problem in a way that does not fully consider the cause..eg the food stamps.

Some of the younger teen moms who have children tend to have them either because there is a void in their life, and they want someone to love (maybe they weren't loved as children), or they believe it will show people they are mature..or even for the prospect of getting a council house. The same applies even with the older parents that keep having children, it is symbolic of something wrong.

We gauge well balanced individuals as being people who are strong, independent, hard working, compassionate, respectful etc. The people that tend to keep having children whilst being unable to support them without the help of the state do not embody all of these qualities. The government and society must then ask themselves Why? Why don't they have these characteristics? What happened in their childhood (a lot of issues can be identified by assessing the childhood) to prevent them from having a work ethic? Prevent them from having the confidence to go after a job? From having the humility to work menial jobs in order to better themselves.

People need to understand whats going wrong in childhood today to better deal with this problem of people abdicating parental responsibility.

Re having family to help with childcare..that is something I don't have, and it is something I crave for so bad. Anyone who has it is lucky. Not for the purpose of cheap/free childcare, but for the emotional bonds that come with it.

 

[Eternal]

Re having family to help with childcare..that is something I don't have, and it is something I crave for so bad. Anyone who has it is lucky. Not for the purpose of cheap/free childcare, but for the emotional bonds that come with it.

I feel the same, we moved 600 miles to be closer to my family so the kids had family who wanted to be involved in their lives, which they are, and its fantatsic, but my mum is disabled so cant "do" much in the sense of actually handling the kids, which would be nice, but the kids love her and it makes a big difference our lives having someone invloved who wnats to me however limitied they are.