The word "clever" is a no-no?

[_jellybean_]

This article describes a study about praising effort vs intelligence: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13128701. There is a lot of other research to back it up.

Yeah...we don't tell our lo he's smart, instead, we say that he's trying hard, doing a great job, etc.

 

[hattiehippo]

I always tell my kids they are clever, because they are to me .

Me too! He also gets told what a big boy he is when he does something grown up like going to the toilet on his own. I do also tell him when I think he's tried hard with something so hopefully there's a balance between the two here.

From a personal point of view despite being a bright child I wasn't praised for doing well or being clever, rather it was just assumed I would get good grades and pass exams. This left me very resentful of the praise and attention my younger and less academic brother got and lacking in confidence of my abilities - these have taken a long time to get past. So I'd much rather Tom believes he is clever and can do things than try and try for no recognition.

 

[Foogirl]

yeah, I'll never forget despite getting three A grades in the first year of my highers, my dad looked at the c-grade I got for maths and said "so what happened to maths then". The sole focus became what I hadn't done rather than what I had. And at Uni in a law exam I got not only the third highest grade, but a higher grade than my lecturer had given to his own students who were actually taking a law degree and 25% higher than our year average. Dad said "so two others got a higher mark than you". It was at that point I stopped caring what he thought and realised my mum's point of view of "did you try your best" was more important.

 

[Rachel_C]

I'm in the middle on this. I don't like it when people go over the top with praise, I'd much rather my kids felt good about doing something because THEY think it's a good thing to have done rather than looking to me to decide if it's good or not. I'd rather their feelings of pride and self-worth came from within, so in the future if they do a painting and their teacher says, "hmm yeah that's okay" they won't feel down because THEY will think it's great (if they do!) regardless, or the other way - if they get an A grade for a project they didn't put any effort into, they won't really feel proud of it. I don't want them relying on other people to tell them they've done good to feel like they're a good enough person. So I do give my opinion about things they do, "I really like that picture", "I'm really pleased you peed on the potty" because I am happy about it and I don't think kids can forever live in their own little bubble where the opinion of others doesn't exist and I don't hold back on spontaneous praise but I do try not to go over the top.

I think a good part of it is down to the language you use at home - my kids, for example, are often called 'monster' as a term of endearment but I know other kids would take that as a real put down. As long as your kids know when you say "good" or "clever" you aren't telling them how to feel and you're really just expressing your own opinion/pleasure, I think praise is okay if it's reasonable. We don't be going to Disney Land to celebrate potty training .

 

[emyandpotato]

Seriously?? What a load of crap... This kind of research really annoys me.
My child is clever and I will tell them so. 'Tried hard' to me sounds like they could do better, if my son had just written his name for the first time then to me that is clever, trying hard sounds like a put down.....

But trying is something that can be worked on, actual intelligence is not. So I can kind of see the reasoning behind it. I do tell my LO he's clever though

 

[Destiny08]

Seriously?? What a load of crap... This kind of research really annoys me.
My child is clever and I will tell them so. 'Tried hard' to me sounds like they could do better, if my son had just written his name for the first time then to me that is clever, trying hard sounds like a put down.....

But trying is something that can be worked on, actual intelligence is not. So I can kind of see the reasoning behind it. I do tell my LO he's clever though

i think that although this is true, it all depends on the parents and how they use the word. i call my daughter 'mongo' if she's being silly, but she just giggles since she knows its a term of endearment. the same with clever. and words similar to that, all depends on the context its used in. if you use clever to only denote knowing something, it can come across as only being clever if you know things..if you use it often when your child gets something right, it can just be a word like 'good!' or 'great!' or if you use it in conjunction with 'good try honey, thats clever!' its a positive word no matter what. i used it just today when DD tidied up lol i said 'good tidying! arent you clever'

so whilst i can understand the thought behind it, i believe its taken too far in that you 'cant use the word at all' instead of advising people to simply change the context they use it in if that makes any sense.

 

[bumpy_j]

I feel so guilty when I read this, I've heard this before and it really resonated with me. I was labeled "clever" at school and as a result I didn't work as hard as I could/should have later on.
I swore I wouldn't do this with Micah and yet I regularly hear myself saying "aren't you clever" and "clever boy "… I don't know how to stop myself it just rolls off the tongue!

I don't think trying hard has to sound like an insult. Something like "wow you must have worked really hard at that to do so well" or "good work" would suffice I think.

Same here, teachers used to clamour around to say I was gifted but lazy. It was absurd, because I hadn't really proven my intelligence in any way. I then had a teacher who pretty much admitted I was only on the Gifted and Talented list because they wanted me to be more motivated. In actuality, I was sick of being told I was gifted when it was totally unfounded; it was almost a relief to hear that. Now that I'm away from that environment, I finally feel comfortable to finish my education, and thankfully access tutors seem a lot more frank and straight with work standard.

I use the word at the moment, but probably wont when he's at school. 'Clever' insinuates 'better', and yet it seems to be said to every child. Good work! You did that perfectly! Etc are far less competitive and more individual terms.

 

[Larkspur]

I can attest that growing up being constantly told you're smart can create an attitude problem towards actually having to work, haha. And that you can end up with the feeling that failure makes you unlovable. I think a lot of people are criticizing this idea without actually understanding it. It's not about never praising success, or using the word clever, it's about being more judicious and specific with praise in ways that are actually more rewarding and valuable for the child than just telling them, "Oh, you're so SMART" every time they do something you approve of. I actually find it very convincing.

 

[NerdyMama]

I do a mix. I say things like "that's great because you worked really hard at it". I do say she is clever too. It's just a point of making sure that they understand that if they fail it's not because they are stupid or will never get it. My husband is kind of this way where if he isn't perfect at something it causes depression and a feeling of worthlessness. When we had discussed the findings of this research he told me that he wished more people told him he did great because he worked at it not just that he's intelligent. That's his opinion however. That's why we like the mix. Encourage work and persistence to achieve goals and make sure they know they are smart !

 

[chickenlegs]

To be honest, with research proving that what seems like everything that comes naturally to parents actually causes harm, it is a wonder that there are any sane people left in the world to do the research in the first place!
Sod the research. Praise your kids in whatever way you want. It is lack of praise which causes problems, in my opinion. Not which specific bloody word you choose to say.

 

[Larkspur]

This is probably a controversial thing to say too, but the truth is that in practical terms, not all kids are naturally smart. Most are somewhere in the average spectrum. Some are below average. Using "clever" or "smart" as go-to terms of praise can give them unrealistic expectations of their own ability, or teach them that intelligence is the top/only mark of value.

 

[Larkspur]

Here's the full article in case anyone is interested, as it seems like a lot of people don't understand the actual concept.

https://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

I understand it can be annoying to have your understanding of what's good/bad/beneficial/harmful challenged, but I think it's actually worth a read.

The ability to consider information that is in conflict with your own "common sense" is a sign of intelligence, by the way.

 

[chickenlegs]

Oh I very much understand the concept. However, I don't agree that using the term "clever boy" is going to cause longterm damage. Using an example of a child who is in the top 0.01% of the country is not proving to me that it is harmful to average children. Do we need to analyse the use of "good try" or "good effort" because often bright children don't actually need to try hard? So the term "good effort" could be deemed detrimental because it is not accurate? I just think it is nitpicking. If it was going to cause longterm damage, millions of adults would be mentally unstable - the term "clever boy" has been used for many, many years.

 

[MrsT&Ben]

Oh I very much understand the concept. However, I don't agree that using the term "clever boy" is going to cause longterm damage. Using an example of a child who is in the top 0.01% of the country is not proving to me that it is harmful to average children. Do we need to analyse the use of "good try" or "good effort" because often bright children don't actually need to try hard? So the term "good effort" could be deemed detrimental because it is not accurate? I just think it is nitpicking. If it was going to cause longterm damage, millions of adults would be mentally unstable - the term "clever boy" has been used for many, many years.

100% agree with this

 

[Tigerlilyb]

Here's the full article in case anyone is interested, as it seems like a lot of people don't understand the actual concept.

https://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

I understand it can be annoying to have your understanding of what's good/bad/beneficial/harmful challenged, but I think it's actually worth a read.

The ability to consider information that is in conflict with your own "common sense" is a sign of intelligence, by the way.

I find it a little snarky to call every woman who has posted here that doesn't like this article unintelligent.

I certainly considered the information, and I agree with it in places (praise where it's due, no unrealistic expectations etc). It gave me something to think about but it just goes against my grain, so I'll disregard it.

 

[Larkspur]

Oh I very much understand the concept. However, I don't agree that using the term "clever boy" is going to cause longterm damage. Using an example of a child who is in the top 0.01% of the country is not proving to me that it is harmful to average children. Do we need to analyse the use of "good try" or "good effort" because often bright children don't actually need to try hard? So the term "good effort" could be deemed detrimental because it is not accurate? I just think it is nitpicking. If it was going to cause longterm damage, millions of adults would be mentally unstable - the term "clever boy" has been used for many, many years.

The article doesn't say that using the term "clever boy" will make children mentally unstable. and it doesn't just talk about one kid, it cites large studies, so... Yeah. Not sure you actually do understand it.

 

[Larkspur]

Here's the full article in case anyone is interested, as it seems like a lot of people don't understand the actual concept.

https://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

I understand it can be annoying to have your understanding of what's good/bad/beneficial/harmful challenged, but I think it's actually worth a read.

The ability to consider information that is in conflict with your own "common sense" is a sign of intelligence, by the way.

I find it a little snarky to call every woman who has posted here that doesn't like this article unintelligent.

I certainly considered the information, and I agree with it in places (praise where it's due, no unrealistic expectations etc). It gave me something to think about but it just goes against my grain, so I'll disregard it.

Not really what I said, but cool. :thumbsup:

 

[chickenlegs]

Oh I very much understand the concept. However, I don't agree that using the term "clever boy" is going to cause longterm damage. Using an example of a child who is in the top 0.01% of the country is not proving to me that it is harmful to average children. Do we need to analyse the use of "good try" or "good effort" because often bright children don't actually need to try hard? So the term "good effort" could be deemed detrimental because it is not accurate? I just think it is nitpicking. If it was going to cause longterm damage, millions of adults would be mentally unstable - the term "clever boy" has been used for many, many years.

The article doesn't say that using the term "clever boy" will make children mentally unstable. and it doesn't just talk about one kid, it cites large studies, so... Yeah. Not sure you actually do understand it.

Gosh, this is a slightly more defensive post than I was expecting! I'm not sure whether I am now supposed to "prove" that I understand the study? What a bizarre response. However, my reason for using the term "clever boy" is because this is how this particular thread started. For what it is worth, I do not believe that a slightly inaccurate use of the term "clever" will cause long term damage. If this was the case, should we be not using the term "good boy" to a child who is generally naughty? The term "handsome boy" to a child who is less than perfect looking? The term "nice picture" to a child who has produced a scribble? SOMETIMES it is ok to exaggerate as a form of general praise to a child. Otherwise this morning, my response would have been "good morning Billy! Actually, sorry, its not a good morning because mummy is tired as you were up 5 times. Good use of the spoon to eat your breakfast, well, actually not that good because you dropped some, but good try. Actually, you didn't try, I helped you. So forget that one."
Apologies for being pedantic, but I didn't completely appreciate the tone of the previous post. I was of the understanding that people were allowed differing opinions.

 

[Saphira]

I don't know.. having grown up with confidence issues myself and having felt as if I never lived up to my parents' expectations I'd feel quite uneasy not making my daughters feel as if they're doing great in whatever in may be they're succeeding at. If they came home from school with a good grade on a test it would be natural for me to say something along the lines of such a great job, how proud I am and all that studying paid off. I guess such a response is somewhere in between overly praising and cautiously praising though as I'd also include the dedication and work put in to get that grade. I'd just be scared if I didn't praise them enough to show them my approval and pride it could backfire and give confidence issues just the same.

 

[Larkspur]

When the OP made her post, I thought people might be interested in the full concept, so I posted a Google suggestion. Then loads of people came in saying "oh no, I disagree with [something not actually being suggested]. Even what you've written above is not what the article suggests. I think it's fine to disagree, it's just strange to me when people say they disagree with something other than what's being suggested.