The word "clever" is a no-no?

[Saphira]

When the OP made her post, I thought people might be interested in the full concept, so I posted a Google suggestion. Then loads of people came in saying "oh no, I disagree with [something not actually being suggested]. Even what you've written above is not what the article suggests. I think it's fine to disagree, it's just strange to me when people say they disagree with something other than what's being suggested.

I am interested and did read the article, thanks for sharing, by the way. I don't disagree with it I'm just not completely sold either. I'm somewhere in between. What did I miss that was being suggested?

 

[chickenlegs]

When the OP made her post, I thought people might be interested in the full concept, so I posted a Google suggestion. Then loads of people came in saying "oh no, I disagree with [something not actually being suggested]. Even what you've written above is not what the article suggests. I think it's fine to disagree, it's just strange to me when people say they disagree with something other than what's being suggested.

Does the article not suggest that it is better not to praise intelligence, but instead to praise effort? I genuinely apologise if this is not the case.

 

[hayz_baby]

I do personally think that we tend to over analyse what we can/can't should/shouldn't do with children. Fact is every child is different and what works for one doesn't work for others. Sometimes as parents (and our own) we get it wrong. I tend not to read too much into these articles but I come on here to read other opinions and see if they could benefit our family. I always say I don't personally think my son will b "book smart" as such but is very good with his hands. I don't think I overly cloud my judgement. At the same time I do call him clever, I also mix it up with "proud of you" which could personally fit with this theory, but I wants child to know when he does good I'm proud of him.

 

[Larkspur]

When the OP made her post, I thought people might be interested in the full concept, so I posted a Google suggestion. Then loads of people came in saying "oh no, I disagree with [something not actually being suggested]. Even what you've written above is not what the article suggests. I think it's fine to disagree, it's just strange to me when people say they disagree with something other than what's being suggested.

Does the article not suggest that it is better not to praise intelligence, but instead to praise effort? I genuinely apologise if this is not the case.

No, you're right, that is the basis of the concept. That it's better to focus on praising effort or work or details of what the child has done (eg "I really like the colours you've used!" "You put a lot of detail into that story" "I love listening to you play piano", etc) rather than just focus on the kind of broad-strokes, hyperbolic praise that has become increasingly common ("You're the smartest ever!" "Who's my brilliant boy?" "You must be very smart!", etc). You know, demonstrating to the child that you value effort and not just achievement.

But it doesn't say that we must NEVER say "smart" or "clever", just that it's better to use those words more judiciously, because research shows that when children are taught to priortise thinking of 'smartness' as the most important thing, it affects their willingness to put in effort.

There's no suggestion that we have to be brutally specific about everything (like "Good morning, actually no, it's an average morning"), that we should never praise genuine success, that we should tell children "try harder" if they don't get an A+, or any of the other conclusions people were leaping to.

And I was just surprised by the number of people who instantly (obviously without giving the idea any real consideration) dismissed it as "nonsense" "pyschobabble" "crap" or said that praising a child for putting in a lot of effort instead of telling them how brilliant they are is basically an insult or a put-down.

Someone commented that they were sick of this whole "no winners" nonsense (or, I guess, "everyone's a winner"), well, this is kind of an antidote to that mindset. That the important thing is to pay attention to what your child is doing and give them encouraging feedback rather than blunt praise. That just doesn't seem like a nonsensical idea to me, it seems more like a really useful tool for parents.

 

[lau86]

Oh for goodness sake!! My Lo put his shoes on himself, I said clever boy. That's all there is to it. I haven't read the article.

 

[bananaz]

Does the article not suggest that it is better not to praise intelligence, but instead to praise effort? I genuinely apologise if this is not the case.

My interpretation of the article is not that you should never praise a child's intelligence, but that most of the time praise should be specific to something the child is doing or has done with an emphasis placed on the effort they put in rather than some intrinsic ability they have no control over.

Another component the article gets at is that praise should be reserved for times when the child really has accomplished something and you are sincerely proud of them, since heaping it on all the time makes it less meaningful and also can make kids think they need a reward whenever they do anything. Of course, what constitutes an accomplishment is subjective. IMO, for a toddler that could be as simple as getting dressed on their own or solving a puzzle or using a fork properly.

All of that said... I still find myself saying "Good job" whenever my daughter does just about anything. It's a hard habit to break.

 

[chickenlegs]

When the OP made her post, I thought people might be interested in the full concept, so I posted a Google suggestion. Then loads of people came in saying "oh no, I disagree with [something not actually being suggested]. Even what you've written above is not what the article suggests. I think it's fine to disagree, it's just strange to me when people say they disagree with something other than what's being suggested.

Does the article not suggest that it is better not to praise intelligence, but instead to praise effort? I genuinely apologise if this is not the case.

No, you're right, that is the basis of the concept. That it's better to focus on praising effort or work or details of what the child has done (eg "I really like the colours you've used!" "You put a lot of detail into that story" "I love listening to you play piano", etc) rather than just focus on the kind of broad-strokes, hyperbolic praise that has become increasingly common ("You're the smartest ever!" "Who's my brilliant boy?" "You must be very smart!", etc). You know, demonstrating to the child that you value effort and not just achievement.

It doesn't say that we must NEVER say "smart" or "clever", just that it's better to use those words more judiciously, because research shows that when children are taught to priortise thinking of 'smartness' as the most important thing, it affects their willingness to put in effort.

There's no suggestion that we have to be brutally specific about everything (like "Good morning, actually no, it's an average morning"), that we should never praise genuine success, that we should tell children "try harder" if they don't get an A+, or any of the other conclusions people were leaping to.

And I was just surprised by the number of people who instantly (obviously without giving the idea any real consideration) dismissed it as "nonsense" "pyschobabble" "crap" or said that praising a child for putting in a lot of effort instead of telling them how brilliant they are is basically an insult or a put-down.

Someone commented that they were sick of this whole "no winners" nonsense (or, I guess, "everyone's a winner"), well, this is kind of an antidote to that mindset. That the important thing is to pay attention to what your child is doing and give them encouraging feedback rather than blunt praise. That just doesn't seem like a nonsensical idea to me, it seems more like a really useful tool for parents.

Maybe. Or maybe it is over the top. And maybe parents who give "blunt praise" produce children who are equally stable as those who give "encouraging feedback". That's all. I read it. I got it. I just don't completely agree with it.

 

[Foogirl]

[i think that although this is true, it all depends on the parents and how they use the word. i call my daughter 'mongo' if she's being silly, but she just giggles since she knows its a term of endearment.

You what? I'm afraid that is hugely offensive, and if I heard another child saying this to my child there would be hell to pay. Your daughter may well think it's funny but given the history of the word, it would definitely not be deemed acceptable if she were to repeat it.

 

[bananaz]

Maybe. Or maybe it is over the top. And maybe parents who give "blunt praise" produce children who are equally stable as those who give "encouraging feedback". That's all. I read it. I got it. I just don't completely agree with it.

I think it's safe to say that your choice of praising style is probably not going to make or break your child's future happiness or stability. The study just suggests that parents being thoughtful about how they offer praise can help some kids become more resilient.

 

[Larkspur]

Maybe. Or maybe it is over the top. And maybe parents who give "blunt praise" produce children who are equally stable as those who give "encouraging feedback". That's all. I read it. I got it. I just don't completely agree with it.

Sure. Of course you're entitled to decide whether you value the research or not!

Personally, I find the culture of "You're the best! You're awesome!" and every parent believing (or wanting everyone including their child to think) that their child is if not the smartest child in the class, definitely in the top five percent to be 'over the top'. This seems like a sensible antidote. But everyone's different.

Some people will think this is 'over-thinking'. I, on the other hand, believe that a lot of people rely way too much on 'common sense' and 'instinct' and don't really think very hard about stuff that's actually quite important.

 

[AngelofTroy]

[i think that although this is true, it all depends on the parents and how they use the word. i call my daughter 'mongo' if she's being silly, but she just giggles since she knows its a term of endearment.

You what? I'm afraid that is hugely offensive, and if I heard another child saying this to my child there would be hell to pay. Your daughter may well think it's funny but given the history of the word, it would definitely not be deemed acceptable if she were to repeat it.

I found that term offensive too.

 

[Lina]

[i think that although this is true, it all depends on the parents and how they use the word. i call my daughter 'mongo' if she's being silly, but she just giggles since she knows its a term of endearment.

You what? I'm afraid that is hugely offensive, and if I heard another child saying this to my child there would be hell to pay. Your daughter may well think it's funny but given the history of the word, it would definitely not be deemed acceptable if she were to repeat it.

I found that term offensive too.

Disgusting really.

 

[Saphira]

What is "mongo"? I honestly never heard it before..

 

[Destiny08]

[i think that although this is true, it all depends on the parents and how they use the word. i call my daughter 'mongo' if she's being silly, but she just giggles since she knows its a term of endearment.

You what? I'm afraid that is hugely offensive, and if I heard another child saying this to my child there would be hell to pay. Your daughter may well think it's funny but given the history of the word, it would definitely not be deemed acceptable if she were to repeat it.

thats ok, i dont expect people to agree, its simply how my family works. my husband says much worse things to me as terms of endearment and DD has never repeated them. you may find it 'hugely offensive' but that does not make it so. my DD knows its a family thing and doesnt call anyone else that, just as she wouldnt call her friend 'darling'. you can say what you like, it was my example. and you actually proved my point. while some may find it an offensive word, the way it is said has a huge influence on how your child perceives it. which was my point. that clever can mean 'you're smart' or it can mean 'you did really well' depending on the context.

its irrelevant what you think of how my family does things. that was an example, and frankly i dont think it fair of you to target that part of my post. thats not what was up fpr debate. if i had made a post saying 'do you think its wrong that i use the word mongo as a t term of endearment?' then it would be. in this case it is not.

 

[bumpy_j]

Mongoloid originally relates namely to Asian populations who share traits such as epicanthic folds, but I believe it was hijacked to target people with Downs Syndrome who also tend to have epicanthic folds. I'll give the poster the benefit of the doubt for not knowing it's true connotations, but it is really NOT an appropriate word to be teaching a child.

 

[Destiny08]

i know exactly what it means, i know exactly where it comes from. but as i have said, i believe the connotation and context of a word is more important than what it says or where it comes from. the english language is constantly evolving. it is not up for debate, nor is it relevant. nobody here knows me or my family. that is the last i will be saying on the matter.

 

[bumpy_j]

But we have mums with special needs children on this site...? If it's all about context, I would say that was an unwise move on your part, and am quite stunned you didn't assess your audience.

 

[Destiny08]

i can accept it may not have been a wise move on my part, but it definitely didnt warrant the reaction it got. it wasnt the point, and it wasnt speaking about anyone else. it was an example, and what is essentially my parenting skills have been called disgusting and inappropriate.
i didnt deserve that.

 

[Foogirl]

I think how a family uses a word within their own walls is quite one thing, but perpetuating out dated and offensive terms which will, whether you intend it or not, be used outside the home (after all you, did it here) is quite another. You don't think the word will cause offence, neither will your child. Whether you think it is up for debate or not is irrelevant, the reason I picked up on it is, I really cannot believe anyone would actually use the word on a public forum, let alone use it with a child in any context.

 

[Larkspur]

i can accept it may not have been a wise move on my part, but it definitely didnt warrant the reaction it got. it wasnt the point, and it wasnt speaking about anyone else. it was an example, and what is essentially my parenting skills have been called disgusting and inappropriate.
i didnt deserve that.

Yeah, you can "make it mean" whatever you like within your own family but when you put it on a public forum you can't expect everyone to just accept it without comment. If I said I call my son a faggot but that's cool cause he knows I'm just joking, I would expect some serious lash back.