Unconditional Parenting

Alice is on a manners strike at the moment. I'd been a bit smug because I'd been told she'd never say pleases and thank yous without being told to, and she was still quite little when she started using them consistently. Now, there's not a chance! I am getting a bit fed up of her barking commands at me, and have started saying things like 'When you ask someone for something, it makes them happy if you say please.' She looks at me like I've gone mad and says 'No.' It is coinciding with a difficult patch for her though, so I'm confident she'll get it back eventually! I'll just have t odeal with feeling like a skivvy until then :rolleyes:

We get the upset when people cry too. It can be a bit awkward, as Alice has been known to march up to a mum and tell them they should cuddle the baby/give it milk! Music in a minor key sets her off too. I think it's an age where they feel things very deeply.
 
Oh no awkward parental unit moment with my parents. My children have never set foot in their house and appear not to like them very much. My parents scold a lot, shame and manipulate. Always waving the finger when william even speaks or acts his age telling him he cant act his age basically. I never let him go there as they would have him ...well I dont know but I know what it was like growing up being afraid to breath and not even being seen or heard eventually. I see how they are with him here. I went off to clean the kitchen and was baking and once they took care of them and the whole time I was doing that I could hear my mum giving off constantly to the point my son wont even go near her as he cant understand her. She wanted him with a mute button, "stop this stop that" he was only playing by the way. "no to much noise"constantly over and over and over! I had to ignore as i was to busy and didnt want a row it takes a lot for them to even come out. So busy doing other things they keep reminding me about so ignored that. My mum demands kisses and hugs, but she dismisses him if she dosnt get her way , turns the nose in the air and withdraws attention claiming "he dosnt want to know me" she spends very little time with him and that little time is wasted on scolding and demanding he jump to her tune. From when he was born he always cried when she came in, knew there was going to be rows. shes stopped that but he dosnt know how to act around her at all. He goes weird, she thinks all sorts and I have to make excuses. Now Alex wont go near her he clings to me, yet will go to their other gran who they go and visit and love her. My mum is so conditional! I do not want him going near her house and she is drumming it in her head that he is and when she did tell him he went off and cried! she has no clue. she roared at him constantly for not wearing pants and not fully potty trained, we are taking that at his pace but why give off to him? i had to intervene so many times. My sis has autism and is jealous when he gets attention, she can get violent to. Only with my mum as she is so controlling even wont let her wear what sanitary towels she wants so causes a lot of conflict. My brother is there to and hasnt even met Alex yet or spoke to me since the summer of 2010!

how can I let him go there i keep saying to them I wont allow it as they cant manage him being normal.
 
Sorry to butt in on your thread but it caught my eye! My name is Anne and I have a 6yr old 4yr old and 19mnth old a.d am stuck in a parenting rut. My 4yr old is really cheeky and stroppy. I am looking for alternative parenting strategies as nothing seems to work so what exactly is UP? :flower:
 
Sorry to butt in on your thread but it caught my eye! My name is Anne and I have a 6yr old 4yr old and 19mnth old a.d am stuck in a parenting rut. My 4yr old is really cheeky and stroppy. I am looking for alternative parenting strategies as nothing seems to work so what exactly is UP? :flower:

Unconditional Parenting is a book by Alfie Kohn. It suggests that the well used strategies of punishments and rewards might produce a compliant child, but their choices may be made more out of desire to be rewarded/escape punishment than their own moral convictions. He recommends encouraging empathy, and acceptance of your child without giving value judgements on their behaviour.

Well, that's my take on it anyway! It's obviously a lot more in depth. Other UPers, feel free to disagree if I've not phrased that well!

Here's a summary of the approach that gives a good idea of what's involved.
 
Thanks Tacey you've explained it far better than I could ;)

Claire- maybe you could pop something on your first post with some links etc for anyone who is wondering what UP is all about
 
how do you parent anyway maybebaby? do you punish, reward etc ? I done UP from the start but trying to turn around after doing certain other things can take a while to repair whats happened.

sorry for boring you all with essay problem, :(
 
Alice is on a manners strike at the moment. I'd been a bit smug because I'd been told she'd never say pleases and thank yous without being told to, and she was still quite little when she started using them consistently. Now, there's not a chance! I am getting a bit fed up of her barking commands at me, and have started saying things like 'When you ask someone for something, it makes them happy if you say please.' She looks at me like I've gone mad and says 'No.' It is coinciding with a difficult patch for her though, so I'm confident she'll get it back eventually! I'll just have t odeal with feeling like a skivvy until then :rolleyes:

Ohhhh yes, we have the barking commands at the moment. To be honest I have been less tolerant than I'd like to be because at 30 something weeks pregnant when I have just sat down I must admit I feel very irritated with being dragged up by my clothes and told to 'run around with me mummy!' or 'get me my drink mummy!' when a) she can run around on her own and b) she can reach her drink herself. Not her fault at all, though, it's just her being 2, but I decided it was important to be realistic about my limitations, because lets face they'll be even more of an issue soon, and be genuine about my feelings.
So I do explain that I would like to sit down for a bit while I finish my cup of tea or whatever, and that I'm feeling tired, we can read a book, or whatever.
And we have been telling Ruby that that isn't how we ask for things as it makes people upset, and what she thinks is a nicer way to ask for something. Now about 50% of the time we have please OR 'I would like' instead of 'I want'.
 
Hi just thought I would pop in and say hello. I follow the basic idea of UP as well! :D
I'm not overly strict about not giving praise (though I don't praise every little thing) and don't worry about other people (like my mother, MIL, etc) and whether they say "good boy" etc. But I do follow the ideas of UP generally and so far they have worked for us! :D
 
we seem to have hit violent phase number 2 in this house today! lyss has been hitting for every little bit of frustration today= she's also teething so here's hoping its linked to that.
do you girls get tutted and comments if/when your child has hit you in public and you've not taken the societally accepted way of reacting in some drastic way?
 
how do you parent anyway maybebaby? do you punish, reward etc ? I done UP from the start but trying to turn around after doing certain other things can take a while to repair whats happened.

sorry for boring you all with essay problem, :(

so far i have bee doing your classic suppernanny approach of rewarding good behaviour (with a sticker chart and when it is finished a treat) and punishing bad behaviour with 'the thinking corner' (naughty step but called thinking cornier instead as i dont want the kids to label themselves naughty)

i dont know if it's too late to change approach now :( any thoughts?
 
Tacey - thanks for the link. very interesting reading! A lot of points there really make sense!
 
maybebaby - I'm not sure how it works when you change from one thing to another. I'd guess a gradual approach would help. How about having time ins rather than time outs? It gives you a chance to have a cuddle (if they let you,) and talk about what has happened and how others felt about it. You can also come up with a plan for how to fix it together. You could also try (if you don't already,) commenting on things your children do by describing 'That pictures is full of colours isn't it? Did you enjoy doing it?' / 'You worked really hard to climb that climbing frame, and you made it all the way to the top!' instead of a well done.

My question of the day. Alice has mini outbursts at the moment. If you put the wrong thing on her plate, she throws handfuls of food on to the floor, or if her Duplo tower breaks, she throws it across the room. Generally, that's the end of it and she's happy and smiley. In the case of the Duplo, I've been ignoring it, although with the food I take her plate and ask her why I don't want food throwing. Not sure if I'm going about it the right way. We've had a few abortive attempts at talking bout her feelings, but I don't think she's old enough to analyse them yet. How would everyone deal with these sort of things?
 
how do you parent anyway maybebaby? do you punish, reward etc ? I done UP from the start but trying to turn around after doing certain other things can take a while to repair whats happened.

sorry for boring you all with essay problem, :(

so far i have bee doing your classic suppernanny approach of rewarding good behaviour (with a sticker chart and when it is finished a treat) and punishing bad behaviour with 'the thinking corner' (naughty step but called thinking cornier instead as i dont want the kids to label themselves naughty)

i dont know if it's too late to change approach now :( any thoughts?
I meet a lot of parents that come asking for help when they try and change parenting, some day Ap and UP wont work for them when in fact its what they have done in the past thats created how their child is acting and its going to take time to change that, It wont happen over night. When punishing with naughty steps its ignoring your childs emotions and causes them to build up, explosive toddlers etc. Destructive behavior. Then they get punished some more and more anger builds up. This would make a childs feelings feel insignificant. You have to understand how these things have made your child feel in order to fix them. Its not to late.

https://www.ahaparenting.com/parenting-tools/positive-discipline/timeouts
A very good article on how children feel in time outs, naughty steps and thinking corners.

rewarding for good behavior often wears off, why should you reward a child to behave how you want? this is manipulation. Where does it end? expect good behavior, reward for things like passing exams in the long run its better for them to feel a proper achievement not having rewarded for something small the same as celebrating a big achievement. Kids are kids not dogs.

on reward charts.
https://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/tcags.htm

Sounds like I am giving off but I am not, as I said when you understand how these things make your child feel you can understand why your child is acting how they are and work on change.

Heres some alternatives to punishments.
https://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/22_alternatives.html

what I try and remember is (and I was raised negativity and conditional so know how my child would feel if I done the same) is that they are small adults who are new to the world. Like us all we make mistakes and mess up. We all still are learning and so are they. Adults learn to handle their emotions from childhood and what we do not will effect them for the rest of their lives. Emotional health is always ignored, people go for seeing rather than whats inside. So many people now have depression and other problems all stemed from child hood. I am totally for child advocacy and respecting children. Just think when your child acts out what would make them act like that and how would you feel if someone punished you for feeling jealous of someone, angry at something or shutting you off. Empathy is the key here. being on your childs side and not against your child. Often negative parenting will go against children, detaching children, pushing them back and causing rebellion.

Now I am not saying children who where positively parented have halos, none of us do. Just a normal range of healthy emotions they can learn to deal with our help.

you can join my page if you wish, loads of people ask help there
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Dangers-of-Baby-Training/126002307480818

This is about supernanny,
https://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/supernanny.htm

she does not care about children sadly its a battle of who is in control. When we start battles like this we always will be in battle. Sounds exhausting. Children are not being defiant or wanting to rule just wanting to be heard, respected and at least some sort of power to even decide small things. I see parents being told on supernanny to train children like dogs, removing every bit of power they have from them. Making the stand here and if they dont its punishment. This is breaking a child. Removing power from someone will cause them to want to break free, they will scream and do anything to gain power, sometimes outside the house they will because outside the house is where they are not under the eyes of parents and feel free to do as they want. Not a good thing at all. Causes so many problems later on. Of course the parent is in charge but not in a way it makes a child feel helpless.

I Parent along with my child, I grow with them to. I get down to their level and know they will come to me when upset and not bottle it up because they think I dont care. To build that it takes time, i done it from birth. So will take time for your child to build up trust again. Untrusting someone we love makes us do all sorts and act in ways we wouldnt when in love.

sorry for essay. :thumbup:
 
Thanks so much dragonfly! It makes so much sense! I know Erin is acting up as she's jealous of Owen (the baby) and Dylan (the eldest who gets more sleepovers at MIL house and visits there on his own. My mum takes it in turn to have them for 1 to 1 time but MIL has labelled Erin as destructive and hardly ever takes her either when she asks off her own back but takes Dylan almost every time he asks) I know there's a reason behind her behavior but not how to deal with it!
 
If youre doing UP how do you tackle things when it comes to school where generally a more super nanny type approach is taken ?
 
With sibling rively remember that they didnt ask for siblings, to them they where there first and had all of you. I have to remember this to with my son. I seen an awful artical today in bounty on facebook which I posted on my page saying to let kids psychically fight ! this isnt on when jealous of someone they will fight with them, how many men do you know want to swing for a man who goes near their woman. Most dont some actually will. You would not want your kid fighting every time they get jealous of someone. I hate bounty I really do.

Anyway I have some stuff maybe that will help , again takes time. Adress you know your child is jealous and that it is ok, and that you are their mum and always will be there for them. Try as best you can to include them. I know this is hard when you have more than one you can get over welmed with one and forget the other. But trying does help. let them know theres always room on mums lap for them with the other. But not ignoring the other. (feel like you need extra hands and eyes? yes you do lol). but you can only try your best. I do this with my son and he sometimes will lash at Alex but immediate sees if he is ok and says that he is sorry and hugs him. Its like it boils up in him and he knows what he has done immediately. Its not in his nature to be like that, but its natural for them feelings to occur. I just have to reassure him I am there for him, when he does this I help both my kids up. I dont ignore him or punish him. I do explain he cant do that to his brother and he is sorry. In time I expect he will handle it better, but handling it the way he does is very good for his age.

https://www.ahaparenting.com/BlogRe...earchID=3292823&ObjectID=206863&ObjectType=55
I love Dr Laura Makin, such a nice woman she is on facebook to and her site is a great resource center.
 
If youre doing UP how do you tackle things when it comes to school where generally a more super nanny type approach is taken ?

Mine arnt old enough for that I dread to think. Hope the schools are nice around here, When I was growing up no one was like kids today we actually where all good kids. Then again you had to be when nuns taught you.
 
Thanks again! I know that Erin has a naughty chair in her preschool class and in Dylan's class (year 1) they lose golden time (free play on Fridays if they have been good!)
 

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