Underhand tactics - formula companies

[xprincessx]

i dont think it has been effective tbh. I have NEVER seen anybody except for my brother's gf breastfeeding and when my midwife was doing my birth plan with me she said "you're going to formula feed?" to which she looked shocked when i told her i was going to breastfeed so that shows how much good it's actually done... all it's done it make people feel awful for not doing it

if it wasnt for the banning in the first place then maybe everyone would stop asking if they are doing something wrong or if they should feel guilty for formula feeding. making people feel like that just for the sake of not putting something on the telly or in magazines is just ridiculous...all it does is give a negative field around the whole subject

 

[Sam9kids]

no but the fact that they ARE banned could make some people feel wrong for doing it.

my original point was people see it as such an awful thing they feel the need to ban it. it just seems wrong to me

Hon I dont think the advertising should be banned because formula feeding is an awful thing, not at all and I doubt anybody else on here thinks that either I've given formula myself from time to time.

But where the government is actively trying to promote increasing bfing rates in the country, helping people to even see bfing as just as normal as ffing would be a massive step. At the moment, most people I know see ffing as normal and bfing as unusual so at the very least, evening up the balance would be an achievement.

But wouldnt it be more productive to spend money on educating people on the benafits of bb and classes on how to succeed in it and help and advise for those that are having problems?

Nope because its just cheaper to ban the advertising of the alternative, knock out the oposition then we dont have to fork out on the real issue.
Typical government policies, if the education and help was there they wouldnt need to ban the adverts.

I agree completely.

Any woman when they get pregnant knows that they have to feed their baby in some way, so imo, more support should be given to those that choose to bf or are thinking about it... rather than time and energy being spent slating formula and those that choose to use it

An example is my stepdaughter, she was trying for a baby for 2 years and was determined to bottle feed. When she was pregnant, she was unsure and in the end she breastfed and did it for 6 months..... the person that supported, encouraged and helped her??? me! and ive never even tried breastfeeding!!!!

It should have been a professional!

And i was advising my hubbys niece on bf yesterday as shes 29weeks pregnant!

 

[trumpetbum]

no but the fact that they ARE banned could make some people feel wrong for doing it.

my original point was people see it as such an awful thing they feel the need to ban it. it just seems wrong to me

Hon I dont think the advertising should be banned because formula feeding is an awful thing, not at all and I doubt anybody else on here thinks that either I've given formula myself from time to time.

But where the government is actively trying to promote increasing bfing rates in the country, helping people to even see bfing as just as normal as ffing would be a massive step. At the moment, most people I know see ffing as normal and bfing as unusual so at the very least, evening up the balance would be an achievement.

But wouldnt it be more productive to spend money on educating people on the benafits of bb and classes on how to succeed in it and help and advise for those that are having problems?

Nope because its just cheaper to ban the advertising of the alternative, knock out the oposition then we dont have to fork out on the real issue.
Typical government policies, if the education and help was there they wouldnt need to ban the adverts.

Where would the govt get the 6million spare pounds to compete with the advertisers of formula (and that's just what they spend now WITH the ban on 0-6 months advertising). If it's cost effective to ban the advertising in order to improve pubic health then surely that's good.

 

[Tabs]

OK, so I've just sat and read all 38 pages of this and now I'm going to put my take on this... (sorry if it comes out a bit garbled, but 38 pages... in one go... eyes are bleeding now!!! )

The way I see it is this. I have read time and time again that more info and support should be available for BFing. OK, so the info in question from the OP is from a formula company, but at least it is there. You may have someone who is dead set on FFing from the get-go and they visit said site and after reading the info about BF may change their minds and give BF a go?

Like I say, does it really matter WHO is giving the advice?? Surely we should just be grateful that there is another source of BF info readily available to EVERYONE?!!!!


With regard to the advertising of formula...

So it is illegal to advertise formula for under 6 months old. Ok, fair enough. But are you seriously telling me that only parents of babies that are over 6 months old ever see the follow-on adverts?? I think the point I'm trying to make is just because these ads are promoting follow-on milk, clearly specifying for 6mths+, doesn't mean that expectant parents or parents of newborns aren't going to see it and consider FF from birth?

So if no-one seems to have a problem with follow-on ads, then I don't see the difference to if newborn formula was advertised??? Dunno, maybe I'm missing something??

Apologies if this post doesn't completely make sense!! I think there was more I wanted to post, but preggo brain has taken over and I can't remember what it was!!!

 

[Sam9kids]

OK, so I've just sat and read all 38 pages of this and now I'm going to put my take on this... (sorry if it comes out a bit garbled, but 38 pages... in one go... eyes are bleeding now!!! )

The way I see it is this. I have read time and time again that more info and support should be available for BFing. OK, so the info in question from the OP is from a formula company, but at least it is there. You may have someone who is dead set on FFing from the get-go and they visit said site and after reading the info about BF may change their minds and give BF a go?

Like I say, does it really matter WHO is giving the advice?? Surely we should just be grateful that there is another source of BF info readily available to EVERYONE?!!!!


With regard to the advertising of formula...

So it is illegal to advertise formula for under 6 months old. Ok, fair enough. But are you seriously telling me that only parents of babies that are over 6 months old ever see the follow-on adverts?? I think the point I'm trying to make is just because these ads are promoting follow-on milk, clearly specifying for 6mths+, doesn't mean that expectant parents or parents of newborns aren't going to see it and consider FF from birth?

So if no-one seems to have a problem with follow-on ads, then I don't see the difference to if newborn formula was advertised??? Dunno, maybe I'm missing something??

Apologies if this post doesn't completely make sense!! I think there was more I wanted to post, but preggo brain has taken over and I can't remember what it was!!!

I get what you are saying and agree!!

 

[Rach27]

The Government is never going to go against the advice of the WHO (unless they're trying to get into power perhaps - then they'll say anything!)

IMHO, there is already PLENTY of formula advertising around. Just Google 'formula' and it will pull up all the relevant sites.

This ban on advertising is for a good reason IMO although I can understand how it could make some feel guilty. However, if you chose to FF then you shouldn't feel guilty as you made the right choice for you and if you couldn't BF then you should be satisfied you tried your best and that by giving your baby formula, you are helping him/ her to thrive.

My concern is derived because this campaign is targetted at people who are perhaps not yet in that position to decide or conclude.

PS: I think the term 'follow on milk' is underhand too...but that's a whole other debate!

 

[Faerie]

Just out of pure curiosity, has banning formula ads been affective? Have the BFing numbers increased?

I live in the States where there are formula ads. Its just kind of known breastmilk is best but not a big deal at all if you FF. I didnt even know it was such a hot topic until I came to BnB.

That's kind of my point. It isn't a big deal in Canada either. Seems so strange to me. I don't even know if it's legal or illegal here, but I have seen FF and BF ads on my American channels. I skip commercials anyways because of my PVR No one cares here.

I'm not sure if it's a UK thing IRL or just on forums... Although I did have a Swedish mother in my baby group ask me why the UK has to push bfing so hard, in Sweden they don't, it's no big deal either way (as in not seen as "bad" to ff) and yet they have one of the highest rates for bfing.

I do wonder if it's just a heated opinion on forums... I have never come across anyone judging, looking down on or questioning another mother's form of feeding their baby (apart from everyone's general shock when one mother tried to convince us it was normal in Canada to give solids from 8 weeks hmm think not). However most of my experience of motherhood has been in Switzerland and France, I was only in the UK for the first 7 weeks of Sofia's life.

 

[smokey]

no but the fact that they ARE banned could make some people feel wrong for doing it.

my original point was people see it as such an awful thing they feel the need to ban it. it just seems wrong to me

Hon I dont think the advertising should be banned because formula feeding is an awful thing, not at all and I doubt anybody else on here thinks that either I've given formula myself from time to time.

But where the government is actively trying to promote increasing bfing rates in the country, helping people to even see bfing as just as normal as ffing would be a massive step. At the moment, most people I know see ffing as normal and bfing as unusual so at the very least, evening up the balance would be an achievement.

But wouldnt it be more productive to spend money on educating people on the benafits of bb and classes on how to succeed in it and help and advise for those that are having problems?

Nope because its just cheaper to ban the advertising of the alternative, knock out the oposition then we dont have to fork out on the real issue.
Typical government policies, if the education and help was there they wouldnt need to ban the adverts.

I absolutely agree, it would be much more productive for the government to invest more in helping women succeed with classes and bfing counsellors being available to come to your home for free etc etc. However that would mean the government finding more funding which isn't going to happen. Allowing ff adverts wouldn't in turn mean more bfing support as it's the formula companies paying for the adverts not the government. Now if formula companies agreed to a levy so that they paid an equal amount into a national fund into bfing support and promotion then I'd be happy for them to advertise as they wish

I was about to say why cant the government take a tax from the formula companies like they do with cigerettes and use that money to help towards bf classes and such.
In return the ff companies dont realy lose out on much as they would then be allowed to advertise to an audiance that genuinly cant bf.
That way people that realy want to bf have the help there they need and hopfully the bf numbers would rise.
As it is the bf numbers probably arnt actualy raising that much because the help isnt there to begine with and then alot end up ff weither they realy wanted to or just didnt realy have a choice.

 

[bluebaby]

My issue isn't whether a mother breast feeds or formula feeds their child. Yes we all know and are told 'breast is best' but to me 'best' is what is good for the mother, the baby and the family as a whole. Feed your baby as you wish


My issue is wanting the 'right to choose' and that means having all the facts about formula feeding and breast feeding both through information being available at every stage of pregnancy, birth and beyond whether that be through advertising or promotion. We live in a 'free' country where we have freedom of speech and choice and the government banning advertising for formula makes me feel as they are impinging in my life.

 

[trumpetbum]

Just out of pure curiosity, has banning formula ads been affective? Have the BFing numbers increased?

I live in the States where there are formula ads. Its just kind of known breastmilk is best but not a big deal at all if you FF. I didnt even know it was such a hot topic until I came to BnB.

According to Unicef and the NHS, yes. Since 1995 there have been consistant and ongoing steady rises, of course this is in conjunction with other initiatives.

 

[xprincessx]

Just out of pure curiosity, has banning formula ads been affective? Have the BFing numbers increased?

I live in the States where there are formula ads. Its just kind of known breastmilk is best but not a big deal at all if you FF. I didnt even know it was such a hot topic until I came to BnB.

That's kind of my point. It isn't a big deal in Canada either. Seems so strange to me. I don't even know if it's legal or illegal here, but I have seen FF and BF ads on my American channels. I skip commercials anyways because of my PVR No one cares here.

I'm not sure if it's a UK thing IRL or just on forums... Although I did have a Swedish mother in my baby group ask me why the UK has to push bfing so hard, in Sweden they don't, it's no big deal either way (as in not seen as "bad" to ff) and yet they have one of the highest rates for bfing.

I do wonder if it's just a heated opinion on forums... I have never come across anyone judging, looking down on or questioning another mother's form of feeding their baby (apart from everyone's general shock when one mother tried to convince us it was normal in Canada to give solids from 8 weeks hmm think not). However most of my experience of motherhood has been in Switzerland and France, I was only in the UK for the first 7 weeks of Sofia's life.

i'm moving to where you are! lol x

 

[MissBroody]

From reading this thread it seems to me that all the FFers have grouped up and agreed, and all the BFers have grouped up agreed, does it really matter how we feed our babies as long as they're being fed??? I dont give a monkeys if theres FF adverts on TV or not, but more info and help YES. As I said in my previous post, the 'breast is best' during my pregnancy and when babe arrived was like some sort of cult. It was PRESUMED in the hospital I'd be breastfeeding, I had my nipple yanked and tugged and told to work through the pain, given BF leaflets, the MW spent about 5 minites at home showing me baby positions to breastfeed in but when I couldn't continue she looked down her nose and said ''oh - I see a bottle, right...'' and gave NO help! I had NO idea about anything bottle feeding related as during my pregnancy I'd be brainwashed into thinking that breastfeeeding was THE only option and it'd work like a dream. Yes I can read some tubs in a shop but I still needed advice I disagree with the fact that Boots etc wont give points on formula, it makes it seem like a crime, a sin, and its highly embarrassing when you first query why you didnt get points and they flat out say its because I should be breastfeeding my baby! I also agree that instead of putting all their energy into banning anything formula related, as though its some sort of rat poison - put more money and energy into helping those mums who've turned to formula because they had such a shitty time of it BFing due to the total lack of support!!

 

[xprincessx]

i'm a BF'er (well will be) and i am not agreeing with the "other BF'ers".

i just wish this country was a little more open to people allowing to make up their own mind without feeling guilty and to allow people full access to any information they wish to have

xxx

 

[smokey]

no but the fact that they ARE banned could make some people feel wrong for doing it.

my original point was people see it as such an awful thing they feel the need to ban it. it just seems wrong to me

Hon I dont think the advertising should be banned because formula feeding is an awful thing, not at all and I doubt anybody else on here thinks that either I've given formula myself from time to time.

But where the government is actively trying to promote increasing bfing rates in the country, helping people to even see bfing as just as normal as ffing would be a massive step. At the moment, most people I know see ffing as normal and bfing as unusual so at the very least, evening up the balance would be an achievement.

But wouldnt it be more productive to spend money on educating people on the benafits of bb and classes on how to succeed in it and help and advise for those that are having problems?

Nope because its just cheaper to ban the advertising of the alternative, knock out the oposition then we dont have to fork out on the real issue.
Typical government policies, if the education and help was there they wouldnt need to ban the adverts.

I agree completely.

Any woman when they get pregnant knows that they have to feed their baby in some way, so imo, more support should be given to those that choose to bf or are thinking about it... rather than time and energy being spent slating formula and those that choose to use it

An example is my stepdaughter, she was trying for a baby for 2 years and was determined to bottle feed. When she was pregnant, she was unsure and in the end she breastfed and did it for 6 months..... the person that supported, encouraged and helped her??? me! and ive never even tried breastfeeding!!!!

It should have been a professional!

And i was advising my hubbys niece on bf yesterday as shes 29weeks pregnant!

I would advice any one of my pregnant friends to at least give it a go and offer any support that I can because I would like to think im trying to give the help that I never got

 

[smokey]

no but the fact that they ARE banned could make some people feel wrong for doing it.

my original point was people see it as such an awful thing they feel the need to ban it. it just seems wrong to me

Hon I dont think the advertising should be banned because formula feeding is an awful thing, not at all and I doubt anybody else on here thinks that either I've given formula myself from time to time.

But where the government is actively trying to promote increasing bfing rates in the country, helping people to even see bfing as just as normal as ffing would be a massive step. At the moment, most people I know see ffing as normal and bfing as unusual so at the very least, evening up the balance would be an achievement.

But wouldnt it be more productive to spend money on educating people on the benafits of bb and classes on how to succeed in it and help and advise for those that are having problems?

Nope because its just cheaper to ban the advertising of the alternative, knock out the oposition then we dont have to fork out on the real issue.
Typical government policies, if the education and help was there they wouldnt need to ban the adverts.

Where would the govt get the 6million spare pounds to compete with the advertisers of formula (and that's just what they spend now WITH the ban on 0-6 months advertising). If it's cost effective to ban the advertising in order to improve pubic health then surely that's good.

Where do you get the figures from that from as the last I read all formula companies refuse to reveal there campaigning budgets

 

[trumpetbum]

With regard to the advertising of formula...

So it is illegal to advertise formula for under 6 months old. Ok, fair enough. But are you seriously telling me that only parents of babies that are over 6 months old ever see the follow-on adverts?? I think the point I'm trying to make is just because these ads are promoting follow-on milk, clearly specifying for 6mths+, doesn't mean that expectant parents or parents of newborns aren't going to see it and consider FF from birth?

So if no-one seems to have a problem with follow-on ads, then I don't see the difference to if newborn formula was advertised??? Dunno, maybe I'm missing something??

Apologies if this post doesn't completely make sense!! I think there was more I wanted to post, but preggo brain has taken over and I can't remember what it was!!!

I'm not trying to be ignorant and ignore the first part of your post, it's just that I've already given my tuppenceworth in this thread regarding my views on formula companies 'advice' so I'd be repeating myself ad nauseum.

Probably a whole other debate, but the same health agencies and charities who pushed for the initial ban have also asked for this to be extended to follow on milks.

 

[freckleonear]

Just out of pure curiosity, has banning formula ads been affective? Have the BFing numbers increased?

I live in the States where there are formula ads. Its just kind of known breastmilk is best but not a big deal at all if you FF. I didnt even know it was such a hot topic until I came to BnB.

The UK government supports the WHO/UNICEF International Code of Marketing of Breastmilk Substitutes and introduced some of it (but not all!) into legislation in 1995. In 1995, 66% of mothers breastfed at birth, compared to 76% in 2005.

 

[Lu28]

no but the fact that they ARE banned could make some people feel wrong for doing it.

my original point was people see it as such an awful thing they feel the need to ban it. it just seems wrong to me

Hon I dont think the advertising should be banned because formula feeding is an awful thing, not at all and I doubt anybody else on here thinks that either I've given formula myself from time to time.

But where the government is actively trying to promote increasing bfing rates in the country, helping people to even see bfing as just as normal as ffing would be a massive step. At the moment, most people I know see ffing as normal and bfing as unusual so at the very least, evening up the balance would be an achievement.

But wouldnt it be more productive to spend money on educating people on the benafits of bb and classes on how to succeed in it and help and advise for those that are having problems?

Nope because its just cheaper to ban the advertising of the alternative, knock out the oposition then we dont have to fork out on the real issue.
Typical government policies, if the education and help was there they wouldnt need to ban the adverts.

I absolutely agree, it would be much more productive for the government to invest more in helping women succeed with classes and bfing counsellors being available to come to your home for free etc etc. However that would mean the government finding more funding which isn't going to happen. Allowing ff adverts wouldn't in turn mean more bfing support as it's the formula companies paying for the adverts not the government. Now if formula companies agreed to a levy so that they paid an equal amount into a national fund into bfing support and promotion then I'd be happy for them to advertise as they wish

I was about to say why cant the government take a tax from the formula companies like they do with cigerettes and use that money to help towards bf classes and such.
In return the ff companies dont realy lose out on much as they would then be allowed to advertise to an audiance that genuinly cant bf.
That way people that realy want to bf have the help there they need and hopfully the bf numbers would rise.
As it is the bf numbers probably arnt actualy raising that much because the help isnt there to begine with and then alot end up ff weither they realy wanted to or just didnt realy have a choice.

Let's go and tell the government and formula companies that we've solved their problems!

 

[smokey]

With regard to the advertising of formula...

So it is illegal to advertise formula for under 6 months old. Ok, fair enough. But are you seriously telling me that only parents of babies that are over 6 months old ever see the follow-on adverts?? I think the point I'm trying to make is just because these ads are promoting follow-on milk, clearly specifying for 6mths+, doesn't mean that expectant parents or parents of newborns aren't going to see it and consider FF from birth?

So if no-one seems to have a problem with follow-on ads, then I don't see the difference to if newborn formula was advertised??? Dunno, maybe I'm missing something??

Apologies if this post doesn't completely make sense!! I think there was more I wanted to post, but preggo brain has taken over and I can't remember what it was!!!

I'm not trying to be ignorant and ignore the first part of your post, it's just that I've already given my tuppenceworth in this thread regarding my views on formula companies 'advice' so I'd be repeating myself ad nauseum.

Probably a whole other debate, but the same health agencies and charities who pushed for the initial ban have also asked for this to be extended to follow on milks.

So is this for the purose of a complete hush up then as I dont understand how banning adverts for follow on will help with initial newborn bf problems

 

[smokey]

no but the fact that they ARE banned could make some people feel wrong for doing it.

my original point was people see it as such an awful thing they feel the need to ban it. it just seems wrong to me

Hon I dont think the advertising should be banned because formula feeding is an awful thing, not at all and I doubt anybody else on here thinks that either I've given formula myself from time to time.

But where the government is actively trying to promote increasing bfing rates in the country, helping people to even see bfing as just as normal as ffing would be a massive step. At the moment, most people I know see ffing as normal and bfing as unusual so at the very least, evening up the balance would be an achievement.

But wouldnt it be more productive to spend money on educating people on the benafits of bb and classes on how to succeed in it and help and advise for those that are having problems?

Nope because its just cheaper to ban the advertising of the alternative, knock out the oposition then we dont have to fork out on the real issue.
Typical government policies, if the education and help was there they wouldnt need to ban the adverts.

I absolutely agree, it would be much more productive for the government to invest more in helping women succeed with classes and bfing counsellors being available to come to your home for free etc etc. However that would mean the government finding more funding which isn't going to happen. Allowing ff adverts wouldn't in turn mean more bfing support as it's the formula companies paying for the adverts not the government. Now if formula companies agreed to a levy so that they paid an equal amount into a national fund into bfing support and promotion then I'd be happy for them to advertise as they wish

I was about to say why cant the government take a tax from the formula companies like they do with cigerettes and use that money to help towards bf classes and such.
In return the ff companies dont realy lose out on much as they would then be allowed to advertise to an audiance that genuinly cant bf.
That way people that realy want to bf have the help there they need and hopfully the bf numbers would rise.
As it is the bf numbers probably arnt actualy raising that much because the help isnt there to begine with and then alot end up ff weither they realy wanted to or just didnt realy have a choice.

Let's go and tell the government and formula companies that we've solved their problems!

Haha im often shouting at hubby "when I rule the world youll be sorry"