Underhand tactics - formula companies

[OmarsMum]

I had never even heard of aptimal until after LO was born.
I thought it was just sma and c&g as thats all id ever heard of.
My choice for using sma was because that was what the nurses in hospital gave me so I though might as well stick to it.

I've never heard of Aptamil before coming to this forum. Here the common formulas r either Nestle formulas (which r awful) or s26. When I went & checked, I found Aptamil, c&g SMA, enfamil, Semilac, Hipp organic, etc. But as Drs r not allowed to recomend formulas, I had no clue what to choose & changed formula 4 times until we settled with Aptamil at the end.

This is why I think formula should be allowed to advertise. Not to say that 'formula is better' but to let you know what formula is out there when you have made the decision to formula feed. I had no clue which formula to choice .

Maybe this is why so many babies have colic, wind etc because formula mummies are not fully informed about different fomula's available

Agree. Omar had colic & reflux. Whever I took him to his checkups, & asked about formula, the only comment I got was "try BFing, u might get ur milk back" or "All formulas r the same". When I used NAN gold frm Nestle as it's the only formula I heard about, Omar started projectile vomitting after every feed, & his poo was stinky & green, so I knew sth was wrong. So I tried the internet & came across BnB, & since then I rely on it when it comes to FFing

 

[Dopeyjopey]

Even if there were adverts, sma is unlikely to tell you it can cause bad wind or constipated. Also, every baby is different and may need to change formula a number of times as their gut matures because formula can't change to fit babies' needs like BM does.

They all would compete, lies would form, next thing you know 'sma baby milk - does everything breastmilk does' 'breast is best but aptamil is better!' Our generation is aware of the whole slogan (which i hate) but after 10 years of advertising formula i would put a lot of money on BF rates going down.

 

[Oscar]

Good old Granny Jo with her wealth of knowledge and experience

Ya wippersnapper!

Wow!
Well I have a couple of thoughts on this topic, purely from a mum point of view
I have read posts on this that have made me range from to to and WTF!!

When I was pregnant with Emily *cough* 12 years ago I was asked what I wanted to do, I said bottles, They said fine and that was that, now that seems mental to me, My mum Bf'd but I never really asked her about it and she never pushed it on me. She used SMA later and that is what I used.

There was no advertising and follow on milk didn't really exist so much then but I just knew about formula, mainly from working with young children, so I guess that is what I felt comfortable with.
I also didn't even have a computer never mind t'internet
Oh and they used to do little tins as well, don't know if you can still get them.

Fast forward 7 years, again I was asked what I wanted to do and I didn't know, I'd discussed Bfing and expressing with OH.
I said this and they just told me to have a think, I though about it and still didn't have much info so went with what I knew which was bottles.
They accepted it and never mentioned feeding again.

I could have well been persuaded to BF, but had no guidance at all from health professionals.

I know the OP was about and advert but I thought I would give my tale about why I chose to do what I did, and TBH I will defend my descions to the hilt and my children are no worse off from being FF.
They are bright intelligent children who are never ill.

I never had an advert influencing me, and really if your mind can be changed so easily by an advert it does make me wonder......

We are bombarded by adverts all the time be it in magazines, on the telly or on the radio.
I don't get new windows every other week because the new one claims to be best, I don't buy cars willy nilly although there is a very attractive purple one being advertised at the minute

I just really don't get all the arms up in the air over a bloomin formula company advertising other services, turn the page, ignore it, If you are set on BFing a glossy mag is not gonna change your mind.

RAFwife got it spot on, it is clever marketing and in a way it has worked as we are all chatting about it.

But this FF v's BF is getting very old now

Seriously liquid feeds are such a small part of your child life, yes it is important for 6-12months whatever but so much more comes into play when you start proper food, oooh and if any of them watch T.V from 2yrs god help you as then the pester power and bombardment of adverts really do begin.

I was going to say this but feared the backlash of how important the first year is and so on, but seriously, when you look at the bigger picture does it matter what your baby ate for the first year of its life? Healthy food for the rest of their lives surely has more importance? When our babies are teenagers and adults are we really going to be obsessing about what they ate 13+ years ago. The BF vs FF debate is so old but rears its ugly head every once in a while and I think we all lose sight of whats most important - the health and happiness of our babies no matter what the source - breast or bottle.

Sorry but I really don't agree with this at all. The effects of being breastfed last much, much longer than the first year of life. It's a really vital decision and in my opinion it is incredibly important what my baby eats for the first year of their life.

I'm not too sure if it is me or Miss Broody who you wanted to quote

Just from my POV I do agree with you to some point, but for example BFing to give the best to your child in the first year of life, then letting them eat crappy stuff filled with salt sugar and additives surely wipes out all the good you did in the first place IYKWIM ( not saying any one does, just an example)
Me for example yeah I fed my children formula, not the best start according to WHO etc.... but everything they then ate was fresh home cooked 9/10. I knew what was in everything they ate.

So I gave them the best real food start in my eyes, and the affects of that will last a long time with the descions they make, not all ways of course as they are bright and can make their own decisons.

I personally do not think that BFing gives immunity to certain things, asthma etc.. as seems to be pushed a lot. I think it is all to do with if it runs in families, enviroment and real foods but as I say that is just my POV

I was quoting both of you

I think thats my point though - breast milk isn't just nutrition in the basic sense of the word, it provides so, so much more. So saying that you fed them great stuff after they were past the milk stage doesn't really equate in my opinion

Health problems such as asthma etc. do definitely run in families however there is a lot more to it than that. I'd be suprised to see any literature claiming breast milk provides immunity from asthma. It just makes it less likely than if you formula feed. If you have a history of autoimmune disorders in your family then breasfeeding can really help minimise the risk of them being passed on to your baby.

In very simple terms, when a baby is born it's digestive system contains lots of holes which stuff can pass through into the bloodstream. If the child is fed breastmilk, this causes no problems as it is as nature intended. However the proteins that make up formula do cause problems when they get into the blood stream. The baby's body doesn't 'recognise' them and this triggers an immune response. This immune response is linked to the development of other hypersensitivity/autoimmune disorders and could have far reaching health consequences.

 

[MissBroody]

Referring to the Aptamil baby club - when I got their booklets and things through, it wasn't really like I was reading a leaflet funded by a formula milk. Does that make sense?! It was just like any other leaflet. I never felt like it was advertising.

It worked - because thats why I went for Aptamil in the end!
xx

 

[forgodssake]

IMHO to term formula feeding as "artificial" is underhand to me

Indeed - can you imagine if CS mums were referred to as giving birth artificially?!!! An appalling statement to make but in principle the same thing!!

 

[forgodssake]

well artificial also means fake.
Would anyone dare go up to someone and say "oh I see your fake feeding your baby"
Certain terms and words just dont need to be used.

I agree - what's the correct definition of the "N" word? Doesn't make it right to use it though does it?!

 

[aliss]

444 posts of BF vs FF and not yet locked, I'm impressed!

 

[NIfirsttimer]

oook... ive only managed to read up to page 29, and im going to bed now but will read the rest in the morning, and probably post again, but for now....

i pumped and fed Ruby BM via a bottle... was I an 'artificial' feeder? its a horrible term IMO, patronising & derogotary, and only used with that as the intention if you ask me... like the others said, I wonder if you would be so happy with it had your BF experience been more like mine?

dragonfly.. i hate to single you out, and I know ive said it before, but im frustrated by your relentless references to how crappy NI is with regards to BF, and how there are NO lactation consultants / support available to you, Last time we had this debate i googled the name of your hosp and the word 'breastfeeding' and was presented with a whole dosier about the hosps BF policy (which was the same as any other hosp) their BF rates (again, around the national average) and multiple names & contact numbers for their 24hr BF support workers. Im not denying that you have had a poor experience, and that perhaps there were breakdowns in communication that meant that you werent made aware of ths support, but clearly it *is* there.... Im nt sure why this irks me so much, i think its just a need to stand up for NI lol....
as for the 'underhand advertising' it doesnt bother me in the slightest, Im a grown adult, and intelligent, educated human being with my own mind, seeing the letters SMA isnt going to make me not want to BF, the same as how one piece of advice from one source isnt going to satisfy me, i always do my own research into whatever decision i have to make for Ruby, and for myself, and I think most people are the same, so seeing FF advertising formula, and BFers refer to is as artificial (amongst other things) leaves me somewhere in the middle, which curiously, as a 100% pumper, is where i ended up lol!

 

[trumpetbum]

Even if there were adverts, sma is unlikely to tell you it can cause bad wind or constipated. Also, every baby is different and may need to change formula a number of times as their gut matures because formula can't change to fit babies' needs like BM does.

They all would compete, lies would form, next thing you know 'sma baby milk - does everything breastmilk does' 'breast is best but aptamil is better!' Our generation is aware of the whole slogan (which i hate) but after 10 years of advertising formula i would put a lot of money on BF rates going down.

There was actually quite a recent case in the US I think where a cheaper brand took a large brand (Enfamil??) to court over such an advert. I must try and find the link. It's interesting, well I found it interesting anyway

 

[trumpetbum]

444 posts of BF vs FF and not yet locked, I'm impressed!

Don't be a jinx.

 

[Susie28]

nap time.

 

[nicholatmn]

Awww, I missed most of this thread!

 

[Eve]

I'm just glad I breastfeed Kayleigh and I enjoy it a lot and it comforts me knowing how good it is for her. I also am happy with my other parenting choices as I feel they are right for her, since I'm letting her do the talking I don't know what else to say as I wouldn't want to offend anyone, so I will keep my thoughts on the subject to myself. I think if you have no regrets in your choices, you made the right ones... be it with raising your children, or buying a house, what education you take etc... Good night everyone.

 

[Rach27]

Referring to the Aptamil baby club - when I got their booklets and things through, it wasn't really like I was reading a leaflet funded by a formula milk. Does that make sense?! It was just like any other leaflet. I never felt like it was advertising.

It worked - because thats why I went for Aptamil in the end!
xx

Good morning!

This was kinda my point. This is why it's sneaky IMHO - because they aren't obvious adverts for their product.

Also, my issue isn't with fact it's formula - it's because it's illegal to openly advertise this product with the target market of their "wonderfully generous and seemingly impartial" helpline.

 

[Dragonfly]

oook... ive only managed to read up to page 29, and im going to bed now but will read the rest in the morning, and probably post again, but for now....

i pumped and fed Ruby BM via a bottle... was I an 'artificial' feeder? its a horrible term IMO, patronising & derogotary, and only used with that as the intention if you ask me... like the others said, I wonder if you would be so happy with it had your BF experience been more like mine?

dragonfly.. i hate to single you out, and I know ive said it before, but im frustrated by your relentless references to how crappy NI is with regards to BF, and how there are NO lactation consultants / support available to you, Last time we had this debate i googled the name of your hosp and the word 'breastfeeding' and was presented with a whole dosier about the hosps BF policy (which was the same as any other hosp) their BF rates (again, around the national average) and multiple names & contact numbers for their 24hr BF support workers. Im not denying that you have had a poor experience, and that perhaps there were breakdowns in communication that meant that you werent made aware of ths support, but clearly it *is* there.... Im nt sure why this irks me so much, i think its just a need to stand up for NI lol....
as for the 'underhand advertising' it doesnt bother me in the slightest, Im a grown adult, and intelligent, educated human being with my own mind, seeing the letters SMA isnt going to make me not want to BF, the same as how one piece of advice from one source isnt going to satisfy me, i always do my own research into whatever decision i have to make for Ruby, and for myself, and I think most people are the same, so seeing FF advertising formula, and BFers refer to is as artificial (amongst other things) leaves me somewhere in the middle, which curiously, as a 100% pumper, is where i ended up lol!

well then can you please show me please I googled breatsfeeding a while ago in my area and only got the sure start group, no one helped me when I asked in the hospital and my hv was crap. That is my experience not some lie I have made up for a chat. I used this site and a breastfeeding helpline. My HV did tell me of a sure start meeting which I have no transport to get to anyway. I am not aware of anything the hospital does after the birth as I said I asked for help and didnt receive it. Sorry I was told I was doing it wrong that was about it.
If we have such great standards I am sorry i didnt see them but I have noticed in this pregnancy at anti natel more was centered on breastfeeding and there are more posters in the waiting room and books. And i was asked if I wanted a dvd this time and book. Maybe they are on the up they seem to be from last time so I hope the after care is better.

 

[ellie]

Referring to the Aptamil baby club - when I got their booklets and things through, it wasn't really like I was reading a leaflet funded by a formula milk. Does that make sense?! It was just like any other leaflet. I never felt like it was advertising.

It worked - because thats why I went for Aptamil in the end!
xx

Good morning!

This was kinda my point. This is why it's sneaky IMHO - because they aren't obvious adverts for their product.

Also, my issue isn't with fact it's formula - it's because it's illegal to openly advertise this product with the target market of their "wonderfully generous and seemingly impartial" helpline.

Absolutely! Look at how many people are saying 'oh they're just helping whats wrong with that'.

I guess whats 'wrong' with it is what you say Rach ... and that bf rates are shockingly poor ... and that bf is Important!!! for a very wide range of reasons, many much bigger than individual mums and individual children ... formula is recommended very quickly by hp's when there is often no need ... it's all been covered pretty well on this and countless other threads

I thought that aptimil was 'closest to breastmilk' ... I've no idea where I got that from! It's very subtle, how these things affect you. And as I've said before, the ladies on here are exceptionally clued up. Many, many other people just aren't.

And I hate to go over this again, but 'artificial feeding' is NOT a derogatory term used by bf'ers to try and make ff'ers feel bad !!! I have no idea why people might htink this. It is an OFFICIAL term used in healthcare. And it's true! OK it might not sound as nice and gentle as maybe other terms ... I didnt like the sound of it put on my hospital form, it brought it home to me that he'd had man made milk. That's what it is, I don't know why people are upset by that. but that's life huh ... we can't control everything and if we take offence to something we can't be blaming the wrong people for it !

I like the kittens though and maybe someone should take the useful points raised and start writing to their NHS trusts

 

[Melody74]

I never understand this debate. Why can't women just be allowed to have all the information on both BF and FF made available to them in equal measures and then have the right to choose. I don't see the problem with (regulated) FF advertisement anyway - although I accept that so many others may disagree. I wish there was more advertisement and propaganda about FF and the pros and cons of the different types of formula (NOT the pros and cons of BF vs FF).

I can't BF, not won't. I have had both breasts removed as I carry the BRCA1 gene. From my antenatal classes to being on the maternity ward I have been made to feel a failure. When asking for FF info, I was told they were not allowed to give me any. I went home completely confused and didn't even know which formula I was using. I had ideas and had bought 2 different cans, only to be told - oh they are soooooo different - choose wisely! I spent AGES on forums asking questions, visiting websites trying to find how to sterilise, how to choose a formula, which would be best as an alternative, how to make bottles. Then we had a very colicky / windy baby and we went through different brands, different additives, different bottles, different feeding techniques. The time, energy and stress spent on all this seems madness to me, when you could be given all this information from the midwives and health visitors if these companies were allowed to advertise their very much needed and used products.

I think the advertisement should be regulated. I'm not saying FF should ever be advertised as being as good as BF - but that if women are looking for an alternative whatever their reason (and there are many) and have considered the options, then information should be made available to them on the different brands and types. There is a genuine need for these products, and these companies are allowed to make a profit like any other company that provides a product. We can advertise & promote alcohol, but we can't advertise & promote formula. Ridiculous.

In the end after so much trial and error someone on here suggested I try Aptamil Comfort formula and Tommee Tippee anti colic plus bottles. I didn't know either variation of formula and bottles existed! Overnight she was a different baby - why oh why could I have not just been given that information in fact sheet, an advert or otherwise. It would have made our first few weeks a whole lot easier and nicer.
When I found out these companies were not allowed to promote, or advertise (and you couldn't earn loyalty points for buying formula) I was genuinely shocked.

Ultimately, the overwhelming majority of Mums have their babies best interests at heart and do not take feeding decisions lightly. Advertisement in a controlled manner, such as how they do it for the follow on milks, would IMO be a positive thing - I see absolutely no problem with the magazine advert and maybe if I had seen it in the beginning or advertisement was more readily available, I would have checked out their website earlier and found answers to my many questions.

 

[AP]

Thats what I was trying to say yesterday. Thanks to the ban my LO suffered for months because we didn't know the options available,In terms of what milks are out there. this forum has been a great guidAnce but it shouldn't have to take as much as surfing the net!

 

[Celesse]

I guess on an innocent level:
--Breastfeeding-mummy-in-trouble-A goes to independent site for advice, problems persist and she ends up combo feeding or formula feeding and chooses Aptamil/ Cow&Gate /SMA.

--Breastfeeding-mummy-in-trouble-B goes to the SMA site for advice, problems persist and she ends up combo feeding or formula feeding and chooses SMA.

 

[NIfirsttimer]

im not accusing you of lying hun, and its obvious that you have been deeply effected by the lack of support that *you* received, and Im not belittling or denying that in any way, im just saying that your experience seems to be personal to you rather than for the whole of NI....
this is the info I found from a very quick google this morning
https://www.southerntrust.hscni.net/corporate/policy/Breast Feeding Support sources.pdf

Breastfeeding Coordinator: 028 3861 2053
Breast Feeding Peer Support
UPLIFT: Telephone support and 1:1 breast feeding peer counselling, weekdays 10am.-4 pm. 0800 0857 496...
...Women and Family Health Initiative, 1: 1 breast feeding peer support 028 3088 9073
Healthy Steps For life, 1: 1 breast feeding peer support week-days 9a.m.-5 p.m. 028 3741 4606.............

https://www.drfosterhealth.co.uk/birth-guide/viewunit.aspx?w=33&o=545

After the birth
24 hour breastfeeding support from trained staff or volunteers: Yes
Peer support worker visit unit 5 days a week
Telephone number: 02830835053

https://wfhealth.co.uk/new_page_2.htm

BREAST FEEDING SUPPORT WORKERS
The workers promote breast feeding at ante-natal classes and community, attend Daisy Hill post natal wards daily and continue support to breast feeding mothers in their home
ALICE MURPHY MARY HAVERN
028 3088 8438 028 3026 1547
MAUREEN MOLEY AINE FEGAN
028 3086 0287 028 3026 4673

https://www.shssb.org/document_libr...hority_Report_for_Supervision_of_Midwives.PDF

· There are currently 6 Breastfeeding Support Groups across the Trust.

(that was in 2005 so its been around for a while)

https://www.healthpromotionagency.org.uk/work/breastfeeding/south.htm

Newry Breastfeeding Support Group
Orana Family Support Centre
2 Warrenpoint Road
Newry
BT35 7NW

Monday 10.30-12.00 except bank holidays
Laura Donnelly, Surestart Midwife or Brona O’Reilly, Surestart Health Visitor

028 3026 5714

https://www.breastfedbabies.org/welcomehere?page=8

https://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news/news-dhssps-24062010-minister-publishes-review

The Health Minister has published a review of the Breast-feeding Strategy for Northern Ireland.
Speaking during breast-feeding awareness week, Michael McGimpsey said: “The review highlights the significant progress that has been made to promote and support breast-feeding. Breast-feeding rates here show an upward trend, with 63% of mothers’ breast-feeding at birth......4. The Infant Feeding Survey shows that initial incidence of breast-feeding in Northern Ireland has increased from 54% in 2000 to 63% in 2005. While NI still has a lower initiation breastfeeding rate than the rest of the UK, the increase for initiation breastfeeding rates between 2000 and 2005 was greater in NI than anywhere else in the UK. The next Infant Feeding Survey is scheduled to take place during 2010.