Underhand tactics - formula companies

[Hayley90]

crikey. im about 20 pages ahead of where i left off last time, to see that people are still talking about "artificial feeding" being offensive. The same points over and over and over again....whats the point

 

[cherryglitter]

crikey. im about 20 pages ahead of where i left off last time, to see that people are still talking about "artificial feeding" being offensive. The same points over and over and over again....whats the point

I think people are reading through the pages and then commenting. (What I did anyway!)

Plus I like to get my 2 pennies worth in!

 

[Hayley90]

crikey. im about 20 pages ahead of where i left off last time, to see that people are still talking about "artificial feeding" being offensive. The same points over and over and over again....whats the point

I think people are reading through the pages and then commenting. (What I did anyway!)

Plus I like to get my 2 pennies worth in!

lol i just read the last 3/4 pages to see the same jumble all over again... its like groundhog day.!!!

 

[RainbowDrop_x]

Personally, i don't think artificial feeding should be easily promoted to pregnant women, or be easily available. I believe deterring people from artificial feeding from the moment they are pregnant, whether that be no advertising etc would encourage alot more Mum's to just give it a go. Artificial feeding is too easily available these days, and these companies know that.

They make no money from breastfeeding

Yeah but if there was no information at all available for FFing then what would happen to the women who can't BF?? They would have NO CLUE about FFing..NO CLUE about which "brand" will work better for them and NO CLUE how to steralise/prepare or store feeds..So not promoting FFing is all well and good as long as 100% of women who have babies are successful in BFing...As I'm sure you're aware this is not always the case

 

[cherryglitter]

Also just because something isn't advertised doesn't mean people aren't going to use it.

 

[bubbles123]

There is no where the near the amount of support available for breast feeding in the UK for their to be restrictions on the sale of formula. We'd just end up with a whole load of malnourished babies. We would need to adopt a Swedish level of support (constant, free access to lactation consultants and much, much more support besides) to even begin to restrict formula sales. But this would cost money, which people don't like to spend. But unfortunately the UK always tries to take the easy (cheap) way out. It's like people drink too much - lets tax the alcohol companies! Yes, that'll stop them without giving any thought to why people drink. People don't BF! Lets get the formula companies! That'll help. Sigh.

 

[Rach27]

I don't anyone is saying formula shouldn't be used when it's needed. It was formulated to nourish babies who couldn't have access to breastmilk, afterall.

But, using my own experience as an example, my son was given Aptamil at the hospital because he didn't latch on right after birth. Then he wouldn't latch on at all so I pumped my colostrum and continued pumping while my milk came in. At this point he was having EBM plus a bottle of formula before bed. My HV told me to supplement each feed to 'make sure he was getting enough'. I nodded but ignored her advice and dropped the formula feed about three weeks later. Oddly enough, he doesn't actually feed at that time anymore at all.

So, what I'm saying is if I hadn't been so ademant to BF, done my research and/or got in touch with the NCT a few times, I would probably have switched completely and felt disapointed with myself for the rest of my life. As it was, I had pretty much managed to justify that one bottle to other people but not to myself or my baby - because he didn't need it.

 

[bubbles123]

It all comes down to a lack of proper information about ALL types of feeding in the UK. It's clear from these posts that both BF'ers and FF'ers feel unsupported and that they lack proper information about their chosen/forced type of feeding. And this is very sad. A society has to know how to properly feed it's young in a safe, confident way. No one is benefiting from the current situation it seems. It's a real shame

 

[Sam9kids]

Personally, i don't think artificial feeding should be easily promoted to pregnant women, or be easily available. I believe deterring people from artificial feeding from the moment they are pregnant, whether that be no advertising etc would encourage alot more Mum's to just give it a go. Artificial feeding is too easily available these days, and these companies know that.

They make no money from breastfeeding

Yeah but if there was no information at all available for FFing then what would happen to the women who can't BF?? They would have NO CLUE about FFing..NO CLUE about which "brand" will work better for them and NO CLUE how to steralise/prepare or store feeds..So not promoting FFing is all well and good as long as 100% of women who have babies are successful in BFing...As I'm sure you're aware this is not always the case

Agree with KJ

Maybe it shouldnt be promoted, but to say that it shouldnt be easily available is wrong in my opinion and makes it seem like ff is the devils work!! It doesnt matter how a baby is fed, as long as he/she is fed... simple!

If someone cant or like me, doesnt want to bf, then what does it matter to anyone else? And in those cases, advice and support should be given to those mothers to make sure that they are doing it right, just as the same should be available to bf mothers.

 

[jojo2605]

Personally, i don't think artificial feeding should be easily promoted to pregnant women, or be easily available. I believe deterring people from artificial feeding from the moment they are pregnant, whether that be no advertising etc would encourage alot more Mum's to just give it a go. Artificial feeding is too easily available these days, and these companies know that.

They make no money from breastfeeding

Yeah but if there was no information at all available for FFing then what would happen to the women who can't BF?? They would have NO CLUE about FFing..NO CLUE about which "brand" will work better for them and NO CLUE how to steralise/prepare or store feeds..So not promoting FFing is all well and good as long as 100% of women who have babies are successful in BFing...As I'm sure you're aware this is not always the case

Totally agree. Life is just not that black and white, unfortunately all to often women walk out of hospital without the necessary support to ensure that BFing was their initial (and ultimately successful) choice. To say that mom's to be should actually be 'deterred' from FF is taking away their choice as mothers. Which to me is out and out wrong.

Yes I am in total agreement that 'breast is best', I desperately wanted to BF for this reason, but for many reasons, one being total lack of support, I had to turn to expressing initially and then finally FF.

I have to say that formula feeding/artifical feeding, or whatever else people want to call it, will always be the 3rd option for me (BF 1st, EBM 2nd) as I do hope that I would always attempt to BF first. But if that doesn't work out again, I would not appreciate being made to feel inferior for feeding my child formula. Is it the out and out 'best' for my child? No? Is it the next best thing? Of course!!

 

[trumpetbum]

To be honest, I don't understand why everyones so bothered about formula milk. If you want to breastfeed. Great. If you want to formula feed, great! Why are we all so concerned about breast being best. It's nothing to do with you how other people feed their baby.

Be it formula milk or breastmilk. We're all aware of the benefits of breastmilk. Well done the NHS. We can all make our own decisions. Why is everyone so concerned with the fact that breastfeeding figures are falling etc?! Just curious?!

I can only answer for myself, but the issue of interest to me because public health is of interest to me. Poor breastfeeding figures relates to poorer health in general which relates to allocation of funding and resources. Again, of personal interest to me.
If all babies were breastfed for the first 3 months (and I'm not implying that ALL babies can be breastfed or implying anything negative about anyone who chose not to) it is estimated that the NHS would save over 50 million a year on gastroenteritis treatment alone. So anyone in the UK with any opinion on NHS resources, funding, quality of care and treatment provision probably SHOULD be interested in this issue overall.
On an individual basis, it is sod all to do with me how people choose to feed their babies and I support those around me who choose either and recieve the same in return from most of them. I support personal choice 100%.
On a wider level the issues of informed choice and health promotion and it's challenges are the business of all current and training health professionals, but also of interest to all who have any interest in the health service, and as everyone in the UK will be an NHS user at some point in their life it is likely to be of interest to many imho.

 

[aob1013]

.....
As a midwife I've seen first hand how formula milk companies try to sneak advertising, they used to give out free pens, tapes, obstetric wheels, mugs etc ...now if you visit a midwife and see her stationary is from one company would you not think she is endorsing it?

Now I'm not saying that a mum who is adamant on breastfeeding is not going to because of this... But a mum who is struggling, hormonal and finds herself thinking she should use formula is more likely to use a brand she has been made aware off.
....

Absolutely agree although I think it goes deeper than this as in WHY she thinks she needs to use formula. Yes of course it may be for a medical reason but if it's because she's not sure she's 'doing it right' or has encountered a problem like mastitis then she is really vulnerable to this type of adverising because they play on her inexperience IMO. In this intance, I think she needs impartial advice.

Aptamil was ALL OVER Stoke Manderville Hospital so when I was told to supplement that's what I bought - the hospital appeared to endorse it so why not! It wouldn't surprise me if Stoke had a deal with Aptamil as I doubt they use it exclusively for any valid medical reason

I had Leni at Stoke Mandeville and they recommended Aptamil in SCBU for him for his first few feeds too x

 

[babybliss]

I just cannot believe that all this is still going on. I strongly agree with Cupcake23 page 48. That's how I found B&B I failed with BF and felt so guilty I was too afraid to ask MW of HV cause I felt that I let my self and them down. So I found you guys and learnt from here how to make up my bottles, sterilise and most of all NOT TO FEEL BAD ABOUT MY SELF I am doing good job. Sorry this is really off the topic.

 

[Missy86]

To be honest, I don't understand why everyones so bothered about formula milk. If you want to breastfeed. Great. If you want to formula feed, great! Why are we all so concerned about breast being best. It's nothing to do with you how other people feed their baby.

Be it formula milk or breastmilk. We're all aware of the benefits of breastmilk. Well done the NHS. We can all make our own decisions. Why is everyone so concerned with the fact that breastfeeding figures are falling etc?! Just curious?!

I can only answer for myself, but the issue of interest to me because public health is of interest to me. Poor breastfeeding figures relates to poorer health in general which relates to allocation of funding and resources. Again, of personal interest to me.
If all babies were breastfed for the first 3 months (and I'm not implying that ALL babies can be breastfed or implying anything negative about anyone who chose not to) it is estimated that the NHS would save over 50 million a year on gastroenteritis treatment alone. So anyone in the UK with any opinion on NHS resources, funding, quality of care and treatment provision probably SHOULD be interested in this issue overall.
On an individual basis, it is sod all to do with me how people choose to feed their babies and I support those around me who choose either and recieve the same in return from most of them. I support personal choice 100%.
On a wider level the issues of informed choice and health promotion and it's challenges are the business of all current and training health professionals, but also of interest to all who have any interest in the health service, and as everyone in the UK will be an NHS user at some point in their life it is likely to be of interest to many imho.

That may be true but I didnt stop bfeeding cos an ad told me too which seems to be the point of this thread.

You cannot take away freedom of choice cos then we would live in a nanny state

My Mw was very good when I decided to ff, told me how to make up bottles and what not cos the advice SMA give you about making up bottles is wrong

 

[bubbles123]

Could the gastroenteritis bill also be reduced by providing proper information about how to make up feeds safely? Gastroenteritis/bacterial infections from non sterile milk powders rates can be drastically reduced by making up formula one at a time with water over 70 degrees. Because of the lack of proper information about how to safely make up feeds many people don't know this, continue to make up feeds with cooled water and then sometimes go onto store them and this massively increases the risk of infections from formula - by about 100,000 times I believe. Proper information about formula would greatly reduce the costs to the NHS.

 

[Celesse]

We have the NHS and formula companies telling us that "Breast is Best". Breast is NOT best. Breast is the normal and natural way to feed a baby and formula is an inferior substitute. The reason that breastfeeding has become so difficult is because formula companies have saturated us with information about formula over the last century and therefore formula has become the norm.

The best way to increase breastfeeding figures is to normalise breastfeeding again. Part of this is to remove the influence formula companies have on mothers by restricting and monitoring their advertising.

If more women are breastfeeding and breastfeeding is normal then people will have more support..... from their families, friends, neighbours. I'm sure that there are many women who would no more ask their friend for breastfeeding position advice than they would for sex position advice. 100 or so years ago when most people breast fed it was talked about, girls saw women breastfeeding and therefore had a better idea of what to do when their babies where born.

And before I get flamed for the use of the word "inferior", it is an accurate way to describe the relationship between something that is not "best". Lets not get all pedantic on wording again.

 

[Rach27]

Could the gastroenteritis bill also be reduced by providing proper information about how to make up feeds safely? Gastroenteritis/bacterial infections from non sterile milk powders rates can be drastically reduced by making up formula one at a time with water over 70 degrees. Because of the lack of proper information about how to safely make up feeds many people don't know this, continue to make up feeds with cooled water and then sometimes go onto store them and this massively increases the risk of infections from formula - by about 100,000 times I believe. Proper information about formula would greatly reduce the costs to the NHS.

I thought it might be referring to gastroenteritis incidences in later life but I think I may be wrong?

I made up feeds from the instructions on the packet - are these inaccurate???

 

[AppleBlossom]

Omg, I thought this would have died out by now!

 

[trumpetbum]

In Scandinavia (Denmark, Sweden and Finland) follow-on milk promotion is not allowed We would need to adopt a Swedish level of support (constant, free access to lactation consultants and much, much more support besides) to even begin to restrict formula sales. But this would cost money, which people don't like to spend. But unfortunately the UK always tries to take the easy (cheap) way out. It's like people drink too much - lets tax the alcohol companies! Yes, that'll stop them without giving any thought to why people drink. People don't BF! Lets get the formula companies! That'll help. Sigh.

In Scandinavia (Denmark, Sweden and Finland) follow-on milk promotion is not permitted in a combination of legislative and voluntary measures, as is my understanding.
I wouldn't argue that sales should be restricted but if we are looking at these countries as examples of what works, then restricting promotion does seem to help. The word cheap has come up several time, but money has to be found somewhere to implement this level of support. Perhaps Sweden and countries like her enjoy the extra resources which can be saved in healthcare where breastfeeding numbers are increased.

 

[Missy86]

Have SMA done something against the law with this ad
If they have not then I dont really see the problem