US health insurance changes, freakin unaffordable! - anyone else?

[amber2727]

As an American that has recently moved to the UK (and is pregs here in the UK), i find this conversation riveting.

I, too, think US insurance is out-of-hand. Luckily, I only had to pay $100 a month for me and DH, but when I quit my job in anticipation of this move, our health care coverage quit. we then bought only bought emergency health insurance (to cover serious accidents). Doctors in the US still accept cash payment for visits, and i've always thought the cost has been lower to see a doc directly and have emergency insurance on the side (when I had my job though, the premium was so low it didn't matter). Of course, DH and i have been fortunate enough to never have chronic issues, but can we touch on that subject briefly? I worked in the health dept. and the rates of cardiovascular disease were shocking. I don't know if it's the same in the UK. although it is an affluent disease (meaning, the wealthier countries have a lot of it), it's the poorest that suffer b/c of the subsidized shi**y foods people put in their bodies. No wonder diabetes and high blood pressure are rampant! I think all of us generally need to take more responsibility for our own health.

second, i quit a 95K job to have a child. my husband earns half of that and supports us. i think we are overly reliant on childcare and working outside the home. why shouldn't that be expensive? it's great to have kids, but since when did we start pawning them off on other people to raise so we could have jobs? i appreciate every situation is different and i don't mean to offend anyone. i would seriously consider not having a child if i or a close family member couldn't raise it until pre-school age. i feel one of the largest problems with the western cultures is that few people want to spend time with their kids. i think kids become apathetic for a lot of reasons as teens, but i think parents out of the house have a lot to do with it, too. having said that, i think being a stay at home mom is probably the toughest job out there. ...i may want to go back to work, too!!!

again, no offense to anyone...just wanted to share a few thoughts on the subject.

 

[DLA]

As an American that has recently moved to the UK (and is pregs here in the UK), i find this conversation riveting.

I, too, think US insurance is out-of-hand. Luckily, I only had to pay $100 a month for me and DH, but when I quit my job in anticipation of this move, our health care coverage quit. we then bought only bought emergency health insurance (to cover serious accidents). Doctors in the US still accept cash payment for visits, and i've always thought the cost has been lower to see a doc directly and have emergency insurance on the side (when I had my job though, the premium was so low it didn't matter). Of course, DH and i have been fortunate enough to never have chronic issues, but can we touch on that subject briefly? I worked in the health dept. and the rates of cardiovascular disease were shocking. I don't know if it's the same in the UK. although it is an affluent disease (meaning, the wealthier countries have a lot of it), it's the poorest that suffer b/c of the subsidized shi**y foods people put in their bodies. No wonder diabetes and high blood pressure are rampant! I think all of us generally need to take more responsibility for our own health.

second, i quit a 95K job to have a child. my husband earns half of that and supports us. i think we are overly reliant on childcare and working outside the home. why shouldn't that be expensive? it's great to have kids, but since when did we start pawning them off on other people to raise so we could have jobs? i appreciate every situation is different and i don't mean to offend anyone. i would seriously consider not having a child if i or a close family member couldn't raise it until pre-school age. i feel one of the largest problems with the western cultures is that few people want to spend time with their kids. i think kids become apathetic for a lot of reasons as teens, but i think parents out of the house have a lot to do with it, too. having said that, i think being a stay at home mom is probably the toughest job out there. ...i may want to go back to work, too!!!

again, no offense to anyone...just wanted to share a few thoughts on the subject.

Honestly, this is tough for me to read. I would love nothing more to be home with my kids. I do not desire to work outside of the home. I do it out of necessity. It's looking like unless my OH is able to find a better job (which we are working super hard to make happen). My only choice will be to quit my job and rely public healthcare. I hate this idea, not the being home and not working part, but relying on the government. I want to be a SAHM, but not that way.
Absolutely child care shouldn't be cheap per se but our personal situation is that two babies going to child care plus the new health insurance premiums and all the other expenses (which I've lowered considerably) are more than what we bring in.
Being a SAHM is definitely not an easy job but after 18 months of being a working mom and being away from my son for 40 cruel hours a week, I would consider it a privilege. We don't live lavishly at all. I spend 10+ hours a week couponing. We never eat out. We live extremely frugally. Problem is we both have student loans that we can no longer defer. I do the best I can with what we have and hate being away from my son.

I do appreciate your perspective though. Thank you.

 

[amber2727]

As an American that has recently moved to the UK (and is pregs here in the UK), i find this conversation riveting.

I, too, think US insurance is out-of-hand. Luckily, I only had to pay $100 a month for me and DH, but when I quit my job in anticipation of this move, our health care coverage quit. we then bought only bought emergency health insurance (to cover serious accidents). Doctors in the US still accept cash payment for visits, and i've always thought the cost has been lower to see a doc directly and have emergency insurance on the side (when I had my job though, the premium was so low it didn't matter). Of course, DH and i have been fortunate enough to never have chronic issues, but can we touch on that subject briefly? I worked in the health dept. and the rates of cardiovascular disease were shocking. I don't know if it's the same in the UK. although it is an affluent disease (meaning, the wealthier countries have a lot of it), it's the poorest that suffer b/c of the subsidized shi**y foods people put in their bodies. No wonder diabetes and high blood pressure are rampant! I think all of us generally need to take more responsibility for our own health.

second, i quit a 95K job to have a child. my husband earns half of that and supports us. i think we are overly reliant on childcare and working outside the home. why shouldn't that be expensive? it's great to have kids, but since when did we start pawning them off on other people to raise so we could have jobs? i appreciate every situation is different and i don't mean to offend anyone. i would seriously consider not having a child if i or a close family member couldn't raise it until pre-school age. i feel one of the largest problems with the western cultures is that few people want to spend time with their kids. i think kids become apathetic for a lot of reasons as teens, but i think parents out of the house have a lot to do with it, too. having said that, i think being a stay at home mom is probably the toughest job out there. ...i may want to go back to work, too!!!

again, no offense to anyone...just wanted to share a few thoughts on the subject.

Honestly, this is tough for me to read. I would love nothing more to be home with my kids. I do not desire to work outside of the home. I do it out of necessity. It's looking like unless my OH is able to find a better job (which we are working super hard to make happen). My only choice will be to quit my job and rely public healthcare. I hate this idea, not the being home and not working part, but relying on the government. I want to be a SAHM, but not that way.
Absolutely child care shouldn't be cheap per se but our personal situation is that two babies going to child care plus the new health insurance premiums and all the other expenses (which I've lowered considerably) are more than what we bring in.
Being a SAHM is definitely not an easy job but after 18 months of being a working mom and being away from my son for 40 cruel hours a week, I would consider it a privilege. We don't live lavishly at all. I spend 10+ hours a week couponing. We never eat out. We live extremely frugally. Problem is we both have student loans that we can no longer defer. I do the best I can with what we have and hate being away from my son.

I do appreciate your perspective though. Thank you.

I completely understand, DLA, and my thoughts were not directed toward you...they were just general thoughts. and i think it's wonderful to hear that you'd actually like to be at home with your kids, which i think so few people feel these days. the student loan thing is so tricky and don't even get me started on how i feel about those! i was really really lucky to be able to pay them off b/c of my job before we moved out here (in fact, that was what kept me at the job for so long) and b/c all of our spare money was going to student loans, we never got used to the dual income lifestyle. it's hard to be able to feel completely independent these days, and as other posters have pointed out, i don't think you should at all feel bad about relying on public benefits if need be. i'm sure you pay taxes for a lot of things you have never benefit from (like folks in the big cities do!). <-- i can really appreciate now why people who live in rural areas tend to be republican and those in densely packed cities tend to be democrat. but that's a whole new thread. god, i'm in a weird mood today!

best of luck, and don't fret. everything will work out in the end like it always does.

 

[MamaFlick]

DLA - I feel the same as you. I wish with all my heart that I could be a SAHM. Not because it's easier (because I don't think that it is), but because I would love to be able to stay at home and spend time with my baby. I think it would be the best thing for both her and myself. But it's just not a realistic option right now. If it wasn't for our stupid student loans... uhg.

I'm hoping that maybe with baby #2 we can afford to rely on one income. That's our goal.

 

[amber2727]

ooh, i also just want to add in case the ladies paying off student loans don't know...there's a student loan forgiveness program! i don't know the details of how it works, but essentially if you work in the public domain for x amount of years and you pay (based on your salary) the requisite amount, after x amount of years, any outstanding balance you have is wiped clean! i think the timeframe is 10 years. and you qualify based on the amount you earn and how much student loan you have left. but you have to work in the public domain or for the benefit of the public. good luck!

 

[Rafferty]

ooh, i also just want to add in case the ladies paying off student loans don't know...there's a student loan forgiveness program! i don't know the details of how it works, but essentially if you work in the public domain for x amount of years and you pay (based on your salary) the requisite amount, after x amount of years, any outstanding balance you have is wiped clean! i think the timeframe is 10 years. and you qualify based on the amount you earn and how much student loan you have left. but you have to work in the public domain or for the benefit of the public. good luck!

I'm pretty sure this only applies to a few specific degrees. But might be worth looking into...

 

[wristwatch24]

As an American that has recently moved to the UK (and is pregs here in the UK), i find this conversation riveting.

I, too, think US insurance is out-of-hand. Luckily, I only had to pay $100 a month for me and DH, but when I quit my job in anticipation of this move, our health care coverage quit. we then bought only bought emergency health insurance (to cover serious accidents). Doctors in the US still accept cash payment for visits, and i've always thought the cost has been lower to see a doc directly and have emergency insurance on the side (when I had my job though, the premium was so low it didn't matter). Of course, DH and i have been fortunate enough to never have chronic issues, but can we touch on that subject briefly? I worked in the health dept. and the rates of cardiovascular disease were shocking. I don't know if it's the same in the UK. although it is an affluent disease (meaning, the wealthier countries have a lot of it), it's the poorest that suffer b/c of the subsidized shi**y foods people put in their bodies. No wonder diabetes and high blood pressure are rampant! I think all of us generally need to take more responsibility for our own health.

second, i quit a 95K job to have a child. my husband earns half of that and supports us. i think we are overly reliant on childcare and working outside the home. why shouldn't that be expensive? it's great to have kids, but since when did we start pawning them off on other people to raise so we could have jobs? i appreciate every situation is different and i don't mean to offend anyone. i would seriously consider not having a child if i or a close family member couldn't raise it until pre-school age. i feel one of the largest problems with the western cultures is that few people want to spend time with their kids. i think kids become apathetic for a lot of reasons as teens, but i think parents out of the house have a lot to do with it, too. having said that, i think being a stay at home mom is probably the toughest job out there. ...i may want to go back to work, too!!!

again, no offense to anyone...just wanted to share a few thoughts on the subject.

I found the bit about SAHMs vs working moms to be really, really offensive. You can't say something that rude and then say "no offense" and think that it completely justifies insulting an entire group of people and an entire parenting style. And to say that kids become apathetic because parents work is ridiculous.

Edit: Also, I truly believe that your comments on the matter violate the forum rules stated here:


Antisocial, discriminatory or offensive messages (intended or otherwise) aimed at the community at large, certain demographics (including parenting styles) or specific members, are not permitted.

 

[amber2727]

As an American that has recently moved to the UK (and is pregs here in the UK), i find this conversation riveting.

I, too, think US insurance is out-of-hand. Luckily, I only had to pay $100 a month for me and DH, but when I quit my job in anticipation of this move, our health care coverage quit. we then bought only bought emergency health insurance (to cover serious accidents). Doctors in the US still accept cash payment for visits, and i've always thought the cost has been lower to see a doc directly and have emergency insurance on the side (when I had my job though, the premium was so low it didn't matter). Of course, DH and i have been fortunate enough to never have chronic issues, but can we touch on that subject briefly? I worked in the health dept. and the rates of cardiovascular disease were shocking. I don't know if it's the same in the UK. although it is an affluent disease (meaning, the wealthier countries have a lot of it), it's the poorest that suffer b/c of the subsidized shi**y foods people put in their bodies. No wonder diabetes and high blood pressure are rampant! I think all of us generally need to take more responsibility for our own health.

second, i quit a 95K job to have a child. my husband earns half of that and supports us. i think we are overly reliant on childcare and working outside the home. why shouldn't that be expensive? it's great to have kids, but since when did we start pawning them off on other people to raise so we could have jobs? i appreciate every situation is different and i don't mean to offend anyone. i would seriously consider not having a child if i or a close family member couldn't raise it until pre-school age. i feel one of the largest problems with the western cultures is that few people want to spend time with their kids. i think kids become apathetic for a lot of reasons as teens, but i think parents out of the house have a lot to do with it, too. having said that, i think being a stay at home mom is probably the toughest job out there. ...i may want to go back to work, too!!!

again, no offense to anyone...just wanted to share a few thoughts on the subject.

I found the bit about SAHMs vs working moms to be really, really offensive. You can't say something that rude and then say "no offense" and think that it completely justifies insulting an entire group of people and an entire parenting style. And to say that kids become apathetic because parents work is ridiculous.

Edit: Also, I truly believe that your comments on the matter violate the forum rules stated here:


Antisocial, discriminatory or offensive messages (intended or otherwise) aimed at the community at large, certain demographics (including parenting styles) or specific members, are not permitted.

i'm sorry you feel that was intentionally derogatory. I think everyone has their own reasons for doing what they need to do, but i do think some people don't want to spend time raising kids and still have them. which is fine by me personally, but then it also makes sense to me that childcare costs a lot. you can certainly have it removed if you feel it warrants removal.

 

[wristwatch24]

I think if you asked people who work they'd say that they'd much rather be home with their kids but can't always be. And it isn't fair to say that someone shouldn't have kids if they can't afford to stay home. You generalized an entire culture, you didn't say "some people" are that way. It's just really crazy to say that people who work are pawning their kids off on someone else to raise them is extremely judgmental. I think a select few people would choose to work if they had the means to stay home. And even if they do truly WANT to work, that is their decision and they shouldn't be shamed for it.

 

[zorak]

As an American that has recently moved to the UK (and is pregs here in the UK), i find this conversation riveting.

I, too, think US insurance is out-of-hand. Luckily, I only had to pay $100 a month for me and DH, but when I quit my job in anticipation of this move, our health care coverage quit. we then bought only bought emergency health insurance (to cover serious accidents). Doctors in the US still accept cash payment for visits, and i've always thought the cost has been lower to see a doc directly and have emergency insurance on the side (when I had my job though, the premium was so low it didn't matter). Of course, DH and i have been fortunate enough to never have chronic issues, but can we touch on that subject briefly? I worked in the health dept. and the rates of cardiovascular disease were shocking. I don't know if it's the same in the UK. although it is an affluent disease (meaning, the wealthier countries have a lot of it), it's the poorest that suffer b/c of the subsidized shi**y foods people put in their bodies. No wonder diabetes and high blood pressure are rampant! I think all of us generally need to take more responsibility for our own health.

second, i quit a 95K job to have a child. my husband earns half of that and supports us. i think we are overly reliant on childcare and working outside the home. why shouldn't that be expensive? it's great to have kids, but since when did we start pawning them off on other people to raise so we could have jobs? i appreciate every situation is different and i don't mean to offend anyone. i would seriously consider not having a child if i or a close family member couldn't raise it until pre-school age. i feel one of the largest problems with the western cultures is that few people want to spend time with their kids. i think kids become apathetic for a lot of reasons as teens, but i think parents out of the house have a lot to do with it, too. having said that, i think being a stay at home mom is probably the toughest job out there. ...i may want to go back to work, too!!!

again, no offense to anyone...just wanted to share a few thoughts on the subject.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I don't find your post derogatory, a bit closed in the thinking perhaps but not derogatory.

I'm from the UK and am living in the US while my OH completes his post doc. I need to go back to work when the baby is 12 weeks old. Yes, we could survive on OH's salary but it would be month to month living with no room for saving etc. My grand plan is that I will work here until he completes his post doc with my whole salary (less childcare) going in the bank so that when we do move back home when the baby is about 1 and a 1/2 we have enough money as the deposit for a house. I will then take time off. For me working is a means to an end, yes I'd love to stay home but it is not the most sensible thing to do in our current situation. Working is made easier though as both mine and OH's jobs are very flexable, we can start and finish when we choose (as long as the work gets done) and if we ever need to work from home we can.

 

[Missy08]

I also agree with DLA. My DH & I are expecting our second child and while daycare is really expensive, we just can't afford to live off one income (even with drastic changes). Even if we could swing it, we'd have nothing extra to put in savings or to be able to go out and do things as a family.

In regards to the insurance stuff, I also find this completely outrageous!! Our family is all on my husband's insurance and our premiums just keep going up and up and the coverage keeps getting worse. I currenly have a $2500 deductible so the doctor was wanting $400/month payments (plus what we already pay for insurance) to meet the deductible!

When my daughter was born after we left the hospital, bills started coming in for the stay, anesthesia, etc. I started making payments on all of them and had them paid off in a couple months...now it seems like I'm hearing the hospitals want the bills paid up front (before even leaving!)...Does anyone know about this?? I'm scared I'm going to be expected to pay a several thousand dollar bill upon being discharged

 

[Anthrogirl]

I would much rather pay higher premiums than pay that much in taxes and have worse coverage. Lots of people make the mistake of thinking "free" health care is free. Places that have "free" health care pay a ridiculous amount of taxes to make up for it.

I can't speak for all of the countries with universal healthcare, but this isn't exactly true between Canada and the US. Those at the bottom scale of the income ladder in Canada (my family) pay a similar tax rate to those in the US, perhaps marginally higher. Unless you are self employed in the US than taxes here are substantially higher starting at 17.5% for employment taxes. However taxation In Canada doesn't kick in until a family of four is making a much higher family income, somewhere in the order of $45, 000 to $55 000 a year once all of the tax credits and exemptions are figured into the equation. My SIL, in the upper tax brackets ($300 000+/yr) paid more in Canada than she would in the US at a lower income level, but is now being taxed almost more in the US without any of the benefits. Once you consider the $1000/month for her and hubby's medical she is actually worse off in TX than in Canada. I am the daughter of 2 border crossing accountants and really if you take a seriously critical look at the tax structures of the two countries you'll see that although taxation might be nominally higher in Canada, the social safety net is substantially better.

 

[zorak]

I would much rather pay higher premiums than pay that much in taxes and have worse coverage. Lots of people make the mistake of thinking "free" health care is free. Places that have "free" health care pay a ridiculous amount of taxes to make up for it.

I can't speak for all of the countries with universal healthcare, but this isn't exactly true between Canada and the US. Those at the bottom scale of the income ladder in Canada (my family) pay a similar tax rate to those in the US, perhaps marginally higher. Unless you are self employed in the US than taxes here are substantially higher starting at 17.5% for employment taxes. However taxation In Canada doesn't kick in until a family of four is making a much higher family income, somewhere in the order of $45, 000 to $55 000 a year once all of the tax credits and exemptions are figured into the equation. My SIL, in the upper tax brackets ($300 000+/yr) paid more in Canada than she would in the US at a lower income level, but is now being taxed almost more in the US without any of the benefits. Once you consider the $1000/month for her and hubby's medical she is actually worse off in TX than in Canada. I am the daughter of 2 border crossing accountants and really if you take a seriously critical look at the tax structures of the two countries you'll see that although taxation might be nominally higher in Canada, the social safety net is substantially better.

I also second this for the UK. Taxation is tiered so those on a lower income don't pay as much. The NHS also controls the pricing of all its supplies etc so the government pay no where near what the US gets charged for prescription drugs etc. Being such a big contract no supplier wants to price themselves out of the market,

I have also seen absolutely no difference in the care I received in the UK to that which I get now in the US, except at least in the UK I never had to worry about wether something was covered by my insurance or not.The one time I really noticed this was when TTC. We left the UK just as I was starting treatment only to discover to my horror it wasn't covered by our insurance here. Fortunatly we got pregnant naturally however we were only a few months away from moving back because of it.

 

[amber2727]

I think a select few people would choose to work if they had the means to stay home. And even if they do truly WANT to work, that is their decision and they shouldn't be shamed for it.

ok, i see where i went wrong here. after speaking with DH, he assured me that most people do want to stay at home with their kids if they can afford to do so and that my opinion has been heavily skewed from living in NYC for too long surrounded by nannies shuttling rich kids around the city. you get a lot of that in NYC! so, apologies again; my statements were made with this as my reference point. but i don't begrudge daycare centers for being so expensive; it is probably a much tougher job than i've ever had.

also, zorak, for what it's worth, i think your plan is an incredibly smart one.

 

[DLA]

Well in all fairness I'm extremely sensitive when it comes to this topic. I can't begin to describe the guilt I struggle with on a daily basis for beig away from son. I've spent countless hours crying at work because I hate being apart from him. I so wish it was different. I can't explain how unnatural it feels to me to be away from him. But I do make the most of the time I have. I hope I can figure out a way to stay home once I have my daughter without relying on public asssistance (healthcare). That's just something I don't feel comfortable with.

 

[amber2727]

Well in all fairness I'm extremely sensitive when it comes to this topic. I can't begin to describe the guilt I struggle with on a daily basis for beig away from son. I've spent countless hours crying at work because I hate being apart from him. I so wish it was different. I can't explain how unnatural it feels to me to be away from him. But I do make the most of the time I have. I hope I can figure out a way to stay home once I have my daughter without relying on public asssistance (healthcare). That's just something I don't feel comfortable with.

the maternity system in america also just sucks. at my last job in the US, i would have received two weeks paid time off and they'd hold my job for three months. !?!?! i'm not sure what the deal is here in the UK, but i know my sister-in-law took a year off work and that is not uncommon at all. I'm sure she wasn't paid for the full year, but at least her job was waiting for her.

i think it's also harder for you, DLA, b/c you have to weigh your views and beliefs (not accepting public assistance) with your desires to be at home with your children. I don't envy your internal struggle, but i'm sure that you'll find a solution that is the best for you and your family.

 

[wristwatch24]

I think a select few people would choose to work if they had the means to stay home. And even if they do truly WANT to work, that is their decision and they shouldn't be shamed for it.

ok, i see where i went wrong here. after speaking with DH, he assured me that most people do want to stay at home with their kids if they can afford to do so and that my opinion has been heavily skewed from living in NYC for too long surrounded by nannies shuttling rich kids around the city. you get a lot of that in NYC! so, apologies again; my statements were made with this as my reference point. but i don't begrudge daycare centers for being so expensive; it is probably a much tougher job than i've ever had.

also, zorak, for what it's worth, i think your plan is an incredibly smart one.

I can definitely see that happening in NYC. I agree with you on what you said regarding day care prices. I think the prices are justifiable in most cases if the care is good. I will have the luxury of having close family (my sister-in-law) watching my baby, and as a teacher I have a great schedule that will allow me a lot of time off with him/her. Even then, I do have guilt about going back to work and would much rather be with my baby, but I also want to be able to save up a lot of money and give him/her a great life without debt. I do feel very fortunate to have the schedule I have considering I do have to go back to work. And taking a year off at some point is definitely something we could do if we can stash away some substantial savings.