What If There Was No Formula?

[readytotry]

I think that increasing breastfeeding rates is a very complex problem. It is a zero-sum game in the sense that every ffing mother is one less bfing mother and that sets the scene for a conflict between bfing and ffing.

I know that some people do not believe that advertising of formula (or branding etc) plays a large part in the take-up rates of formula versus breastfeeding - but it does normalise ffing (at the expense of bfing???). In my opinion it does.

However, banning advertising/branding may also make ffing mothers feel stigmatized - and some may, quite understandably, feel defensive about their choice (particularly if it was not the choice they would have ideally made).

I don't think there is an easy solution to this conflict, I think in the long term to increase the amount of people willing to try breastfeeding, formula feeding imagery/cultural references do need to be replaced by breastfeeding imagery/cultural references in society - i.e. breastfeeding needs to be normalised at the expense of formula feeding. This should be done sensitively and non-judgementaly.

HOWEVER, in the short-run we need to deal with the large number of people who wish to, but are unable to breastfeed. In the UK at least it seems that although there is a lot of talk about promoting breastfeeding - in reality it is not a priority.

 

[Ourlittlebump]

I understand that, but honestly if a mother chooses not to breastfeed there is a reason behind it.

There is a reason behind every decision. I think what she's getting at when she says NO reason is not a lack of reason, but a reason that centers around lack of desire or willingness to BF. That is what she considers NO reason. Whereas reasons that are centered around a physical or psychological inability are more valid reasons in her opinion.

I have truly heard the reason for not BF given as "It's just not something I wanted to do. I didn't want to be the only one that could feed her. I didn't want to not be able to drop her off. I didn't want to make her clingy to me. I didn't want to bother with pumping at work. I wanted my life back. I wanted to be able to drink." Those are the kind of NO reasons she's getting at.

Thank you I'm happy that someone else is able to understand what I was saying.

 

[TigerLady]

I think that increasing breastfeeding rates is a very complex problem. It is a zero-sum game in the sense that every ffing mother is one less bfing mother and that sets the scene for a conflict between bfing and ffing.

I know that some people do not believe that advertising of formula (or branding etc) plays a large part in the take-up rates of formula versus breastfeeding - but it does normalise ffing (at the expense of bfing???). In my opinion it does.

However, banning advertising/branding may also make ffing mothers feel stigmatized - and some may, quite understandably, feel defensive about their choice (particularly if it was not the choice they would have ideally made).

I don't think there is an easy solution to this conflict, I think in the long term to increase the amount of people willing to try breastfeeding, formula feeding imagery/cultural references do need to be replaced by breastfeeding imagery/cultural references in society - i.e. breastfeeding needs to be normalised at the expense of formula feeding. This should be done sensitively and non-judgementaly.

HOWEVER, in the short-run we need to deal with the large number of people who wish to, but are unable to breastfeed. In the UK at least it seems that although there is a lot of talk about promoting breastfeeding - in reality it is not a priority.

Some good points here. Especially about the zero-sum game setting up a natural conflict.

It is my understanding that FF in the US is much much much more commericialized than in the UK. There are sappy commericials all over TV about happy, healthy, beautiful babies thriving solely on all the "best ingredients, closest to Mom's milk, brain boosting, immune boosting formula X." It is borderline false advertising in my opinion. Not that a baby can't be all of those things on formula, but if you see the commericials you are absolutely led to believe that FF is every bit as good, maybe even better, than BF. (Except for the more recent requirement that they have a small print disclaimer somewhere that states breastmilk is best. Like that outweighs the fancy commercial. LOL)

I don't think the fact that prescription medication is often not advertised provides it with more of a stigma. Actually, it has been successfully argued that the commericialization of perscription drugs leads to their increased (and unecessary!) use.

I think formula should be treated more closely to medication. Not made prescription only!!! But looked at as a necessity for some babies -- a life saving, wonderful one. But also seen as the exception. Where I live BF is currently the exception.

 

[vintage67]

I am a stay at home mom in the US with the television on most of the day on in the kitchen and I'm in and out of that room all day and I don't see any of the commercials you are talking about. Haven't seen any commercials like that in years if at all. Everyone's an expert on the US.

You can't even buy a can of formula in the US without a message about breastmilk stamped on it. Where are all of these dancing teddy bears and ducks that I hear so much about? The ones that mesmerized all of us and made my breasts not "work?"



I don't know where these dreamy US formula commecials are. The only one I've seen in years and years was for GoodStart. And it certainly didn't say it was as good as breastmilk. I found one on youtube from 1994 that still plainly said breastmilk was better.

 

[TigerLady]

I know my info says I live "In a Cave" but that cave happens to be one in the US. So, as a fellow US citizen I could fairly class myself as much as an expert as you, no?

Like this one:

https://www.adstorical.com/commerci...-eye-blend-baby-seeing-and-making-connections

https://jodieotte.com/?p=416

There is a whole line from this campaign that plastered the TV and magazines. Dreamy babies nestled in their parents' large hands (pics in mags) with talk about how you will support them best. And a small, fine print tag line about breast being best. That sort of advertising is not helping in promoting BF.

 

[midori1999]

For anyone who doesn't think that advertising works, there are a few examples at the following link, this is one:

"Two 1995 TV programmes, Newsnight (BBC 2 15.3.95) and Food File (C4 23.3.95) showed a Milupa hearing room in Hillingdon hospital. Before this room was opened babies were tested for hearing in a basinette. Now all the mothers have to go through this room which carries a large Milupa sign over the door. In the year following the opening of this room, sales of Milupa milks in the local clinic went up by 560%. "

from here:

https://www.babymilkaction.org/pages/uklaw.html

 

[vintage67]

The threads about formula commericials are very sadly humourous.
You want ugly unhealthy, crying babies. Actually, I think what some of you would be happy with would be a slovenly mom in an unkempt house with a baby in a crib several rooms away with a bottle propped on a pillow while a voice over says, "Formula. When you just don't give a shit." And maybe an end shot of a group of women drinking in a pub.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with formula commercials nor do I see anything wrong with formula money going to further research and produce a better product. Mothers who have to use formula deserve the best product possible for their babies. I hope the formula companies continue to research and develop the best products possible for the babies that need them. Babies deserve quality products.

Even if these lazy, no good, formula feeders who do it for reasons that aren't "sanctioned" by a team of breastfeeders, the baby is still the consumer of the product. That baby deserves the highest quality product available.

 

[TigerLady]

I don't want those types of commercials -- I don't want commercials period.

And I've never, not once, implied moms that FF were any of those things.

I honestly don't understand why just because I am pro-BF (not anti-FF), it is so frequently assumed I'm such a horrid person who would think such awful things about another mother and her baby.

And you're being a little naive if you think formula companies put all their profits back into making a better product. As far as I am aware, none of them are non-profit companies. They put those profits into the pockets of those in charge and those who own the company.

 

[midori1999]

The threads about formula commericials are very sadly humourous.
You want ugly unhealthy, crying babies. Actually, I think what some of you would be happy with would be a slovenly mom in an unkempt house with a baby in a crib several rooms away with a bottle propped on a pillow while a voice over says, "Formula. When you just don't give a shit." And maybe an end shot of a group of women drinking in a pub.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with formula commercials nor do I see anything wrong with formula money going to further research and produce a better product. Mothers who have to use formula deserve the best product possible for their babies. I hope the formula companies continue to research and develop the best products possible for the babies that need them. Babies deserve quality products.

Even if these lazy, no good, formula feeders who do it for reasons that aren't "sanctioned" by a team of breastfeeders, the baby is still the consumer of the product. That baby deserves the highest quality product available.

No one (well, maybe one or two very extreme posters who no one else agrees with) has said those things though.

Formula companies and their commercials undermine breastfeeding women. Women who want to breastfeed and that is wrong. They don't care about anyone's babies (hence the fact that around the world 4,000 babies die every day because they are given formula milks) they care about profit. They constantly behave unethically and appallingly in order to make more money.

And yes, I agree with Tigerlady, I would like to see formula commercials banned completely. It's there, it's availab,e women can buy it if they want or need to. That is their choice. Advertising pushes the price up for the women who want or need to buy it and it helps to normalise formula which undermines breastfeeding.

However, sadly you have your own issues in this area and I don't think you will ever see anything but personal critiscism where there is none.

 

[summer rain]

There's currently a tv commercial for Gerber infant formula being shown in some areas of the US, Fearless formula feeder mentioned it and linked to it on her blog (she had seen this ad herself on the television), so yes first stage infant formula is advertised in some places in the US xx

 

[readytotry]

The threads about formula commericials are very sadly humourous.
You want ugly unhealthy, crying babies. Actually, I think what some of you would be happy with would be a slovenly mom in an unkempt house with a baby in a crib several rooms away with a bottle propped on a pillow while a voice over says, "Formula. When you just don't give a shit." And maybe an end shot of a group of women drinking in a pub.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with formula commercials nor do I see anything wrong with formula money going to further research and produce a better product. Mothers who have to use formula deserve the best product possible for their babies. I hope the formula companies continue to research and develop the best products possible for the babies that need them. Babies deserve quality products.

Even if these lazy, no good, formula feeders who do it for reasons that aren't "sanctioned" by a team of breastfeeders, the baby is still the consumer of the product. That baby deserves the highest quality product available.

I don't know if you are replying to me but you are misrepresenting me if you are. I have no problem with formula feeding for WHATEVER or even NO reason. I do have a problem with formula companies undermining breastfeeding to grow their market. As I was trying to say in my previous post, I think it is a problem that by trying to prevent this we risk stigmatising ff mothers.

If formula companies were forbidden from advertising the price would go down as they would no longer be passing on the cost of advertising. This has nothing to do with research or quality. This would be of benefit to ff mothers.

I completely understand why this is a sensitive topic for you, but you are projecting a lot of anger and conflict into this discussion which is a bit out of keeping with the actual posts in this thread.

 

[summer rain]

I think advertising/marketing to HCPs is a big problem as well though not just obvious advertising in the mass media. All the formula companies in the UK have sites for HCPs that they don't want Joe Public to see because a lot of what they are promoting on their sites is pretty shady. I managed to join Hipps one though and well their 'informational' emails are pretty eye opening. The latest thing they plan to do is replace all their current formula range with one containing probiotics they claim to have isolated from breastmilk, it's all very misleading as its only one strain of probiotics whereas breast milk has many, also there are many other different types of living and immune cells in breastmilk that cannot be replicated. But Hipp are already paving the way for their new product to be portrayed as 'exactly like breastmilk' and no doubt they will jack up the price to justify the new ingredient xx

 

[indy and lara]

This is a bit of an aside but anyway.... it isn't as if there haven't been any tangents already.

I Bf for 14 months. At the time I would have said their were no negatives. However, when I stopped BF my daughter almost immediately became much more cuddly with her daddy, something she had not been previously. He was and still is, as exceptionally hands on dad but she would not cuddle with him/ try to get comfort that way. It seems that she got enough all the cuddles she wanted with me as I fed on demand. When I saw this and thought it through, I did feel sad that my husband had missed out on this. I am not saying they did not bond etc but BF clearly did impact he course of their early relationship. I am not sure how I would address this in future but I would have to consider it if we were ever to have another baby.

If you talk to most parents they will say that a child's "favorite" parent waxes and wanes throughout their life. Mom is favorite for a while, than Dad for a while, and back again. They are closer to different parents at different stages depending on what their current needs are and which parent fits those needs better. I think that's natural and not a problem.

Ah but you see for me it is a problem. As with most things I was not that aware of it while we were in the midst of it but it became very obvious when I stopped feeding. It was almost and immediate thing- I stopped feeding and almost the next day she started looking for cuddles with her Daddy.

Now, this may not be an issue for everyone but it was for me. We had previously lost a son and while hubby and DD have a very close bond I do think had he been struggling after her birth with the emotions surrounding our loss then this would have made it worse. I am aware there are lots of ifs and buts. However, it is a very real concern for me, even if it is not for others. If we were to have another baby I would have to think really carefully about how to address this.

 

[Tasha]

Interesting thread.

I know the conversation has moved on a bit but I wanted to talk about the idea of needing formula to be prescribed. You know that horrifies me, simply because *some* healthcare professionals are SO insensitive. I was sexuallu abused from a very young age (I was so young I can't remember exactly how old, but I think between the ages of three and five. I can however tell you in great detail the nightie I was wearing that first night) until I was well into my teens. I never spoke of it to anyone in RL apart from my husband, but when I was pregnant with my fourth I decided to tell the mw when she was doing the standard questions and that one came up, it was a HUGE deal for me as it meant I was taking a step towards accepting it has happened. She then wrote SEXUALLY ABUSED in big red letters on the back page of my handle held notes, I was mortified, these things could be seen by friends, family, any one! What if the person that decides handles it as sensitvily as that?

Also my reason just over eight years ago and seven years ago would of been 'I don't feel comfortable with the idea', when asked why I wouldn't of been able to tell them because I didn't know what made me uncomfotable. Infact it is only now, over eight years and five children on that I am beginning to see what made me uncomfortable. So what if they said being uncomfortable wasn't reason enough? Was I to be forced to BF? I think that might of pushed me over the edge, the uncomfortableness comes from being laughed at and poked, prodded, taken the piss out of when my breasts were just developing by the man who has affected my life in so many ways.

I did BF my fourth child for six weeks. We stopped then because we had zero support. I did manage to BF, I was comfortable with her BF, however I very much doubt I will ever NIP due to my issues and I know for a fact I will never be comfortable with my breasts. I probably should of 'dealt with my issues' before I had children but I didn't know they were an issue until this past week or so. So it isn't as simple as that.

 

[Tasha]

Sorry for the typo's I'm on my phone x

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

Tasha x

 

[Tasha]

Tasha x

Thank you.

And for you and all you went through with BF Oliver.

 

[readytotry]

Interesting thread.

I know the conversation has moved on a bit but I wanted to talk about the idea of needing formula to be prescribed. You know that horrifies me, simply because *some* healthcare professionals are SO insensitive. I was sexuallu abused from a very young age (I was so young I can't remember exactly how old, but I think between the ages of three and five. I can however tell you in great detail the nightie I was wearing that first night) until I was well into my teens. I never spoke of it to anyone in RL apart from my husband, but when I was pregnant with my fourth I decided to tell the mw when she was doing the standard questions and that one came up, it was a HUGE deal for me as it meant I was taking a step towards accepting it has happened. She then wrote SEXUALLY ABUSED in big red letters on the back page of my handle held notes, I was mortified, these things could be seen by friends, family, any one! What if the person that decides handles it as sensitvily as that?

Also my reason just over eight years ago and seven years ago would of been 'I don't feel comfortable with the idea', when asked why I wouldn't of been able to tell them because I didn't know what made me uncomfotable. Infact it is only now, over eight years and five children on that I am beginning to see what made me uncomfortable. So what if they said being uncomfortable wasn't reason enough? Was I to be forced to BF? I think that might of pushed me over the edge, the uncomfortableness comes from being laughed at and poked, prodded, taken the piss out of when my breasts were just developing by the man who has affected my life in so many ways.

I did BF my fourth child for six weeks. We stopped then because we had zero support. I did manage to BF, I was comfortable with her BF, however I very much doubt I will ever NIP due to my issues and I know for a fact I will never be comfortable with my breasts. I probably should of 'dealt with my issues' before I had children but I didn't know they were an issue until this past week or so. So it isn't as simple as that.

I can't believe the midwife wrote that on your notes like that - simply awful.

No-one should be forced to breastfeed. Or feel that they have to justify their decision not to IMO. I think what's important is providing support for mothers that do want to/are able to bf.

Also, if everybody had to sort out their issues before having children the human race would die out.

 

[MrsPOP]

Tasha you are one amazing lady and mummy xxx

 

[DLA]

Only read the first 7 pages but I seriously can't believe people believe formula should be prescribed! Why should I or anyone have to "prove" anything to anyone? This is MY baby and MY body. I will feed my child the way I choose to and not be dictated by some health professional. No one should have to justify, defend or explain anything about how they feed their child, as long as they are keeping their child healthy (which can be done via formula!) God what age are we living in here!?

btw I chose to BF and then EP, then switched to formula when I went back to work.