What If There Was No Formula?

[Tasha]

Thank you girls. I didnt share to get sympathy though, I just wanted people to see it isnt black and white, I didnt even know what my issue was and even if I did I very much doubt I was in a place where I could share why with a healthcare proffessional. And after the mw, I wouldnt share that information with a professional again either.

And as DLA says why should anyone have to prove anything to anyone?

 

[Ourlittlebump]

Tasha, I'm sorry to hear your story You're amazing for going through all of that and coming out the other side!
I feel that a few of you have hugely misunderstood me. People keep quoting (not directly) snippets of my previous posts. Including 'Getting over issues before having children'.
I just wanted to make it clear that I did not in any way mean these kind of issues. I was simply saying it in response to issues with their breasts...small issues.

I agree that looking back some of the things I said were VERY easy to interpret in the wrong way. I don't want to be seen as some horrid judgmental mother who thinks she's better than everyone just because she breastfeeds.

I'm sorry if i caused any upset. Unfortunately I get wound up far too easily and end up saying things I don't mean or putting things in such a way that they come across completely wrong.

Formula is very much needed...I think what I should have said is that I find it hard to understand why someone would formula feed out of choice. Not that I have less respect for them. We all love our babies and that's all that matters xx

 

[lovie]

We all love our babies and that's all that matters xx

 

[pinkpolkadot]

The threads about formula commericials are very sadly humourous.
You want ugly unhealthy, crying babies. Actually, I think what some of you would be happy with would be a slovenly mom in an unkempt house with a baby in a crib several rooms away with a bottle propped on a pillow while a voice over says, "Formula. When you just don't give a shit." And maybe an end shot of a group of women drinking in a pub.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with formula commercials nor do I see anything wrong with formula money going to further research and produce a better product. Mothers who have to use formula deserve the best product possible for their babies. I hope the formula companies continue to research and develop the best products possible for the babies that need them. Babies deserve quality products.

Even if these lazy, no good, formula feeders who do it for reasons that aren't "sanctioned" by a team of breastfeeders, the baby is still the consumer of the product. That baby deserves the highest quality product available.

Don't disagree with that in bold and don't see why anyone would (maybe I missed a post?)

I do have to agree with some of the others, I think you have the wrong idea (and I'm sure for your own reasons) about why so many dislike and disagree with formula advertising from a moral standpoint.

May I ask (and in a genuinely interested in discussing this topic kind of way), do you think that if formula advertising were banned this would affect BF/FF rates at all (bearing in mind some ladies have the choice)?

Putting dancing teddy bears aside for a moment, I heard a young mother recently saying she was worried her diet was not good enough to BF and so she was going to FF. Personally, I do not find this surprising having read some of the dubious BF diet advice given on some of the formula company websites. I find it hard to believe that this would affect not one persons decision.

Sorry I have gone further off topic here I think, the advertising stuff just interests me!

 

[snowfia]

The threads about formula commericials are very sadly humourous.
You want ugly unhealthy, crying babies. Actually, I think what some of you would be happy with would be a slovenly mom in an unkempt house with a baby in a crib several rooms away with a bottle propped on a pillow while a voice over says, "Formula. When you just don't give a shit." And maybe an end shot of a group of women drinking in a pub.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with formula commercials nor do I see anything wrong with formula money going to further research and produce a better product. Mothers who have to use formula deserve the best product possible for their babies. I hope the formula companies continue to research and develop the best products possible for the babies that need them. Babies deserve quality products.

Even if these lazy, no good, formula feeders who do it for reasons that aren't "sanctioned" by a team of breastfeeders, the baby is still the consumer of the product. That baby deserves the highest quality product available.

Don't disagree with that in bold and don't see why anyone would (maybe I missed a post?)

I do have to agree with some of the others, I think you have the wrong idea (and I'm sure for your own reasons) about why so many dislike and disagree with formula advertising from a moral standpoint.

May I ask (and in a genuinely interested in discussing this topic kind of way), do you think that if formula advertising were banned this would affect BF/FF rates at all (bearing in mind some ladies have the choice)?

Putting dancing teddy bears aside for a moment, I heard a young mother recently saying she was worried her diet was not good enough to BF and so she was going to FF. Personally, I do not find this surprising having read some of the dubious BF diet advice given on some of the formula company websites. I find it hard to believe that this would affect not one persons decision.

Sorry I have gone further off topic here I think, the advertising stuff just interests me!

I think they should have breastfeeding adverts, or whatever they're called like they have to help deter people from smoking/drugs or to raise awareness of certain illness's. I think that could help people see breastfeeding as the norm again.

And as for a 'breastfeeding diet'. I certainly don't have a good diet at all, which I am trying to change aha, but I'm breastfeeding just fine

 

[summer rain]

The threads about formula commericials are very sadly humourous.
You want ugly unhealthy, crying babies. Actually, I think what some of you would be happy with would be a slovenly mom in an unkempt house with a baby in a crib several rooms away with a bottle propped on a pillow while a voice over says, "Formula. When you just don't give a shit." And maybe an end shot of a group of women drinking in a pub.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with formula commercials nor do I see anything wrong with formula money going to further research and produce a better product. Mothers who have to use formula deserve the best product possible for their babies. I hope the formula companies continue to research and develop the best products possible for the babies that need them. Babies deserve quality products.

Even if these lazy, no good, formula feeders who do it for reasons that aren't "sanctioned" by a team of breastfeeders, the baby is still the consumer of the product. That baby deserves the highest quality product available.

Don't disagree with that in bold and don't see why anyone would (maybe I missed a post?)

I do have to agree with some of the others, I think you have the wrong idea (and I'm sure for your own reasons) about why so many dislike and disagree with formula advertising from a moral standpoint.

May I ask (and in a genuinely interested in discussing this topic kind of way), do you think that if formula advertising were banned this would affect BF/FF rates at all (bearing in mind some ladies have the choice)?

Putting dancing teddy bears aside for a moment, I heard a young mother recently saying she was worried her diet was not good enough to BF and so she was going to FF. Personally, I do not find this surprising having read some of the dubious BF diet advice given on some of the formula company websites. I find it hard to believe that this would affect not one persons decision.

Sorry I have gone further off topic here I think, the advertising stuff just interests me!

I know many ladies who have not BF for this reason. I was just writing a post about this in weaning section; in the US the formula companies even put their names on the vitamin supplements that BF babies purportedly need from birth xx

 

[summer rain]

Tasha you are one amazing lady and mummy xxx

Amen to that! xx

 

[pinklightbulb]

Interesting debate!

I am what a lot of FF mummies would class as this "mammary mafia" that gets spoken of on here so much, though I prefer the term "passionate lactivist"

I also feel that BF should be normalized. I agree with everything TigerLady has said, 110%. She has put it so much more eloquently than I feel I could, so I'll just park my bus next to hers.

Some posters, though, don't seem to understand that a debate is not supposed to be emotional. That's my only beef with this thread. *Always* these threads turn, and it is always the same names turning them. Why can we not have a factual debate without emotion clouding (and I'm sorry if this offends, but also ruining) the thread? It does my head in.

 

[midori1999]

Interesting debate!

I am what a lot of FF mummies would class as this "mammary mafia" that gets spoken of on here so much, though I prefer the term "passionate lactivist"

I also feel that BF should be normalized. I agree with everything TigerLady has said, 110%. She has put it so much more eloquently than I feel I could, so I'll just park my bus next to hers.

Some posters, though, don't seem to understand that a debate is not supposed to be emotional. That's my only beef with this thread. *Always* these threads turn, and it is always the same names turning them. Why can we not have a factual debate without emotion clouding (and I'm sorry if this offends, but also ruining) the thread? It does my head in.

Because it is a very emotive issue for a lot of women. I have known of women who 20, 30, 40 years down the line still feel huge emotional trauma because breastfeeding didn't work out for them and not everyone can be analytical about it, so for some people it does feel like a personal attack or an attack on their choices or decisions and I don't thinlk that is something that will change any time soon.

 

[Tasha]

I think emotions and breast feeding go hand in hand, and therefore it is to be expected that any debate surrounding breast feeding, is going to include emotions. It isnt as simple as being able to turn your emotions surrounding BF off and have a factual debate.

Pinklightbulb, I know you apologised if you offended, but some women here have shared how guilt ridden they are, what a traumatic time they had, why they did what they and in the case of myself and another woman - the fact that we have have in some way been sexually abused, so to then dismiss it as 'ruining the thread' is offensive.

Oh and I am of the mindset that if we can understand the reasons for stopping, the emotions behind it all, then we are haf way there to being able to help those women, should they want to be helped. And therefore increase BF rates.

 

[SnuggleMum]

I think emotions and breast feeding go hand in hand, and therefore it is to be expected that any debate surrounding breast feeding, is going to include emotions. It isnt as simple as being able to turn your emotions surrounding BF off and have a factual debate.

Pinklightbulb, I know you apologised if you offended, but some women here have shared how guilt ridden they are, what a traumatic time they had, why they did what they and in the case of myself and another woman - the fact that we have have in some way been sexually abused, so to then dismiss it as 'ruining the thread' is offensive.

Oh and I am of the mindset that if we can understand the reasons for stopping, the emotions behind it all, then we are haf way there to being able to help those women, should they want to be helped. And therefore increase BF rates.

I can see both sides to this. It is an emotive debate, always, which is a shame. I'm not saying hide emotions, or hide people, from the debate, all the time, but I'm another who occasionally would like a more logical discussion about it, rather than an emotional one. That isn't to say the emotions aren't valid, but sometimes they do get in the way of discussion. It is very difficult to tread carefully enough and not offend (I'm sure no ladies in this thread wanted to offend, but offence has been had, purely because of the emotions involved).

I wouldn't say it ruins the thread, but it does make the thread a certain type of thread, one which we see a lot off, whereas a less emotional (not sure how to word that bit) would be a different thread. There are emotions on both sides, so I wouldn't say it is one 'group' ruining it. I think a lot of the offense caused it because of the strong emotions we feel about how others' feed babies - although logically it isn't much of our business (although there is some debate about that) most women feel a 'connection' to all babies, and so react emotively to how they are fed.

 

[pinklightbulb]

Maybe I could have used a better word than ruining, so I apologize for that I'm running on 3 hours' sleep and as I said I'm not very good with wording things. if I have offended, that truly was not my objective.

 

[Kage76]

What would happen if formula didn't exist? well all we have to do is look to the past to see what happen- infant and child mortality would rise as well "failure to thrive". There may be milk banks- but im tipping like any commodity it wouldn't take someone very long to work out that there is money to be made and BM would be bought and sold like anything else of value. Then we would be having the conversation about how unscrupulous those milk banks are with their advertisements.

I honestly don't think there is an issue with the message getting across that breast is best- 90% of women will try to breastfeed. only around 40-50% of those women (in aus) will still be doing it at 6 months. More education is needed yes but there has to be some reality in the hyperbole- breastfeeding is HARD. I think a lot of women going in to breastfeeding expecting that because its the natural way to feed that it will be easy.

As for me my baby would have died. The end. Formula to me is the very best thing that has been invented. Yes i would have liked to have breastfed my baby but i couldn't. I tried everything. But what i resent on boards like this is that the only time FF is ok is if you put yourself through the wringer- personally i hate sentiments like 'well if you tried everything else then i guess formula is ok' I always come away from these threads feeling like the "right" to use formula is only gained by driving your self to PND with a duel pump attached to your useless breasts.

To me formula is a wonderful thing- i would rather hold a itchy sickly fat little baby than watch her fade away from no food at all.

 

[DLA]

What would happen if formula didn't exist? well all we have to do is look to the past to see what happen- infant and child mortality would rise as well "failure to thrive". There may be milk banks- but im tipping like any commodity it wouldn't take someone very long to work out that there is money to be made and BM would be bought and sold like anything else of value. Then we would be having the conversation about how unscrupulous those milk banks are with their advertisements.

I honestly don't think there is an issue with the message getting across that breast is best- 90% of women will try to breastfeed. only around 40-50% of those women (in aus) will still be doing it at 6 months. More education is needed yes but there has to be some reality in the hyperbole- breastfeeding is HARD. I think a lot of women going in to breastfeeding expecting that because its the natural way to feed that it will be easy.

As for me my baby would have died. The end. Formula to me is the very best thing that has been invented. Yes i would have liked to have breastfed my baby but i couldn't. I tried everything. But what i resent on boards like this is that the only time FF is ok is if you put yourself through the wringer- personally i hate sentiments like 'well if you tried everything else then i guess formula is ok' I always come away from these threads feeling like the "right" to use formula is only gained by driving your self to PND with a duel pump attached to your useless breasts.

To me formula is a wonderful thing- i would rather hold a itchy sickly fat little baby than watch her fade away from no food at all.

Completely agree.

 

[midori1999]

Actually, the majority of people on this thread have said that it is a woman's choice whether she uses formula or not, whatever the circumstances or reasons. Those who have said otherwise are in the tiniest minority.

 

[meli1981]

to be completely honest i havent heard anything about milk banks where i live. i didnt even know they existed. i live in canada, in a small town, if we have any there probably located in big cities far away. so formula is necessary, if bf doesnt work. a question to those who couldnt bf because of lack of supply, is there medication to help your milk supply and does it really work?

 

[TigerLady]

I would like to ask a genuine question, if I may.

I often see (and certainly am one that does this!) women who were successful with breastfeeding be the ones to say something to the effect of "If you couldn't breastfeed for some reason, then formula is absolutely an important and life-saving alternative."

The grey area comes into the "couldn't for some reason." I'd like to see anyone how can try, try. I know there are some that can't even try (for both medical and psychological issues.) I have never said a woman should drive herself into PND before finally admitting defeat and actually feel quite the opposite! However, it is easy to see where a woman would interpret much of what I say as meaning something to that end.

However, back to my genuine question. It is the women who didn't have to use formula or who are very comfortable in their choice with using formula that say it should be used as a alternative rather than a first choice.

Saying this automatically implies it is inferior -- there is no way around that. That's just the truth of it. Saying it shouldn't be the feeding method of first resort implies it is second-rate. Everything the pro-BF ladies say has at least a shade of that in it. The difficult truth is that if FF and BF were truly equal, there would be no debate and no one would care which a baby was given. So, the harsh reality is that FF is a "second best" and those mothers that would do ANYthing to provide their babies with the best and have to rely on FF will feel some level of regret/shame/quilt/disappointment/anger/resentment for not being able to give their baby what was best. (Which feeling(s) they feel vary from woman to woman.)

So, here is my question -- put to those who had to FF when they would have rather BF. Is there anything that can be done to ease those hurt feelings? Is there any way to promote BF as best for both mom and baby without exacerbating those feelings? I fear there's not. But I would hope there would be!

I find it sad and frustrating that women who wanted to BF and couldn't are the most hurt victims of this debate. They were hurt when they couldn't BF and they are hurt again everytime someone points out babies should be BF. When I promote BF, my target audience is those that 1) want to BF and 2) can BF but were choosing FF out of lack of education or understanding. Women that tried and couldn't BF seem to be the worst kind of collateral damage in this attempt to increase BF rates.

Did that even make sense??

 

[SnuggleMum]

to be completely honest i havent heard anything about milk banks where i live. i didnt even know they existed. i live in canada, in a small town, if we have any there probably located in big cities far away. so formula is necessary, if bf doesnt work. a question to those who couldnt bf because of lack of supply, is there medication to help your milk supply and does it really work?

Not to me, as I did manage to breastfeed, but had medically diagnosed low supply, and medication did work for me (that and a strict pumping routine). It greatly depends on the reason for the supply problems though. In most cases, it is a positioning/attachment/management issue, and if that can be resolved (not always easy) then the supply problems can be rectified. Other times, if it is a hormonal problem (such as in pregnancy or other cases) there isn't much that can be done. There are also cases where women don't have enough glandular tissue (nothing to do with breast size, but what is actually inside - it is thankfully rare).

 

[TigerLady]

to be completely honest i havent heard anything about milk banks where i live. i didnt even know they existed. i live in canada, in a small town, if we have any there probably located in big cities far away. so formula is necessary, if bf doesnt work. a question to those who couldnt bf because of lack of supply, is there medication to help your milk supply and does it really work?

There are medications that can help, but they only work for some women. Also, low supply is not the only reason women can't BF. So, while meds work for some, so far they aren't a magic pill that will work for all.

 

[Kage76]

to be completely honest i havent heard anything about milk banks where i live. i didnt even know they existed. i live in canada, in a small town, if we have any there probably located in big cities far away. so formula is necessary, if bf doesnt work. a question to those who couldnt bf because of lack of supply, is there medication to help your milk supply and does it really work?

Domperidone (brand nameMotilium, Motillium, Motinorm Costi and Nomit) can be used to boost supply- for me it didn't work- but i know of women who have had great success with it.