What If There Was No Formula?

[Missy86]

I have PCOS and diabetes. Of course there are women who have PCOS and diabetes and successfully breastfeed. Doesn't discount all the people affected.



https://www.mobimotherhood.org/MM/article-pcos.aspx

Thanks for the link

I think I am lucky in that my PCOS is mild and has never had an impact on my fertility (only one ovary is effected) so maybe it doesnt effect my milk supply

 

[TigerLady]

Can someone explain the PCOS and bf thing to me, I know I only bf for a week but I had no problem with supply and I have PCOS

I'm curious about this too. Perhaps its a hormonal thing?

My understanding is only minimal, but from what I know about 1/3 of women with PCOS will have difficulty with BF. Some may be able to overcome their supply issues, others won't.

My friend's PCOS hadn't been properly diagnosed at the time. They were still working under the notion it was only thyroid problems (she has both.) She would pump for hours per day and only get 1 oz or less in total. Her DD had latching problems to boot. Even when she did figure out latching, she got frustrated at the breast because there was no milk there. An endocronologist looked at her blood work and told her, based on her hormone levels, there was virtually no chance she was capable of producing enough quality milk to BF. Her milk looked very different from mine, too. It was VERY thin and watery with virtually no cream (fat.)

Personally, I am grateful for formula in cases like this.

 

[MrsPOP]

I dont see how a mum can choose to give their baby formula without even trying Breastfeeding first though?
Everyone knows its best and has numerous benefits for both child and mother...if you want the best for your baby then why wouldn't you at least try to provide them with all these benefits?

I appear to be the only breastfeeder here.
It's funny how people are allowed to put people for for doing something as simple as feeding in public yet as soon as someone says anything negative about formula it's the end of the world.

Another point I've been thinking about...what would all the formula feeding mums do in the case of a major natural disaster?
I think Breastfeeding is safer all around. Less sickness, better immunity and a source of nutrition no matter what.
I'm also a big 'Eco warrior' and prefer Breastfeeding as it doesn't require fuel burning factories and transit to reach us.

As I have said before I feel like I'm been made out to be the bad one here but to be honest that doesn't really bother me anymore. All I ever see on bnb is Breastfeeding mums made out this way by others. Jealousy is a nasty thing...I'm SO proud to BF my daughter and feel very strongly about spreading the word. Breastfeeding is a dying talent and it scares me that my daughter will grow up in a world where it is becoming more and more rare

I'm not anti-BF at all. If I were why would I have tried so hard for so long? Why would I have ended up seriously depressed that I couldnt? I'm very pro-BF but I'm also very pro-choice in all parenting choices and would NEVER judge someone or disrespect someone for a choice I wouldn't make.

As for the jealousy remark yes I'm jealous in general I couldn't breastfeed but that is not why I have challenged you in this thread at all, I'm more mature than that. I found your views to be narrow minded and judgemental and as I have said previously I dislike views that are judgemental against ANY type of feeding choice.

Even if it were purely down to jealousy, considering what you went through I'm once again surprised by your attitude.

Whilst it is admirable you battled through and that you are passionate perhaps direct that lack of respect into a more positive energy and focus on trying to normalise BFing, or become a BF supported or something? The best BF supporters are those who struggled IMO therefore you could be part of the change to resuscitate the 'dying art' of BF.

 

[vintage67]

I have PCOS and diabetes. Of course there are women who have PCOS and diabetes and successfully breastfeed. Doesn't discount all the people affected.



https://www.mobimotherhood.org/MM/article-pcos.aspx

Thanks for the link

I think I am lucky in that my PCOS is mild and has never had an impact on my fertility (only one ovary is effected) so maybe it doesnt effect my milk supply

Doctors felt my PCOS was mild, but it took 2 years to conceive my first son and 4 years and 3 miscarriages to conceive my second.
Type 2 diabetes can affect milk supply as well. They always encourage diabetics to breastfeed, but quite a few of them will struggle with it. I have thyroid issues as well. It's all connected with the endocrine system, etc.

 

[Missy86]

I have PCOS and diabetes. Of course there are women who have PCOS and diabetes and successfully breastfeed. Doesn't discount all the people affected.



https://www.mobimotherhood.org/MM/article-pcos.aspx

Thanks for the link

I think I am lucky in that my PCOS is mild and has never had an impact on my fertility (only one ovary is effected) so maybe it doesnt effect my milk supply

Doctors felt my PCOS was mild, but it took 2 years to conceive my first son and 4 years and 3 miscarriages to conceive my second.
Type 2 diabetes can affect milk supply as well. They always encourage diabetics to breastfeed, but quite a few of them will struggle with it. I have thyroid issues as well. It's all connected with the endocrine system, etc.

 

[Quackquack99]

I dont see how a mum can choose to give their baby formula without even trying Breastfeeding first though?
Everyone knows its best and has numerous benefits for both child and mother...if you want the best for your baby then why wouldn't you at least try to provide them with all these benefits?

I appear to be the only breastfeeder here.
It's funny how people are allowed to put people for for doing something as simple as feeding in public yet as soon as someone says anything negative about formula it's the end of the world.

Another point I've been thinking about...what would all the formula feeding mums do in the case of a major natural disaster?
I think Breastfeeding is safer all around. Less sickness, better immunity and a source of nutrition no matter what.
I'm also a big 'Eco warrior' and prefer Breastfeeding as it doesn't require fuel burning factories and transit to reach us.

As I have said before I feel like I'm been made out to be the bad one here but to be honest that doesn't really bother me anymore. All I ever see on bnb is Breastfeeding mums made out this way by others. Jealousy is a nasty thing...I'm SO proud to BF my daughter and feel very strongly about spreading the word. Breastfeeding is a dying talent and it scares me that my daughter will grow up in a world where it is becoming more and more rare

Well as you said, you can't understand how anyone does not give bf a go. Well if you have never been in that position you will never will understand.
And tbh I don't care if people don't have respect for me because I didn't give it a go. All that matters is that the people I'm close to respect me for a great mum.

I'm sorry I dint understand what you're getting at. I haven't been in that position? I am a mother so I have been in the position to choose.
What are your reasons for not attempting to BF just out of interest? No one ever seems to give any.

Well if you must know I was sexually assaulted as a teenager and as an adult I suffer vaginismus where I suffer from painful sex and have bad issue with my breast. I've had therapy and counselling so how on earth you say you lack respect for me yet you haven't physically walked in my heels is ridiculous. Many people think that women who ff from the start usually do it for vanity but after speaking to a few, I've come to the conclusion that many people have underlying issues.

I don't mean to sound harsh or anything but I support anyone that wants to breastfeed but in this day and age I'm glad women have a choice. Bloody hell we fought for the right to vote, surely a mother is entitled to feed her baby which ever way it suits them best.

 

[lovie]

surely so long as everyone can feed their baby how they want to then everyone is happy? I cant see why if someone chooses (for whatever reason) to formula feed their baby it has any effect on a breast fed baby (and vica versa) its not like the formula is going to jump into your babies mouth or like a breast feeding mum is going to come and try to feed your baby.

 

[Ourlittlebump]

I dont see how a mum can choose to give their baby formula without even trying Breastfeeding first though?
Everyone knows its best and has numerous benefits for both child and mother...if you want the best for your baby then why wouldn't you at least try to provide them with all these benefits?

I appear to be the only breastfeeder here.
It's funny how people are allowed to put people for for doing something as simple as feeding in public yet as soon as someone says anything negative about formula it's the end of the world.

Another point I've been thinking about...what would all the formula feeding mums do in the case of a major natural disaster?
I think Breastfeeding is safer all around. Less sickness, better immunity and a source of nutrition no matter what.
I'm also a big 'Eco warrior' and prefer Breastfeeding as it doesn't require fuel burning factories and transit to reach us.

As I have said before I feel like I'm been made out to be the bad one here but to be honest that doesn't really bother me anymore. All I ever see on bnb is Breastfeeding mums made out this way by others. Jealousy is a nasty thing...I'm SO proud to BF my daughter and feel very strongly about spreading the word. Breastfeeding is a dying talent and it scares me that my daughter will grow up in a world where it is becoming more and more rare

Well as you said, you can't understand how anyone does not give bf a go. Well if you have never been in that position you will never will understand.
And tbh I don't care if people don't have respect for me because I didn't give it a go. All that matters is that the people I'm close to respect me for a great mum.

I'm sorry I dint understand what you're getting at. I haven't been in that position? I am a mother so I have been in the position to choose.
What are your reasons for not attempting to BF just out of interest? No one ever seems to give any.

Well if you must know I was sexually assaulted as a teenager and as an adult I suffer vaginismus where I suffer from painful sex and have bad issue with my breast. I've had therapy and counselling so how on earth you say you lack respect for me yet you haven't physically walked in my heels is ridiculous. Many people think that women who ff from the start usually do it for vanity but after speaking to a few, I've come to the conclusion that many people have underlying issues.

I don't mean to sound harsh or anything but I support anyone that wants to breastfeed but in this day and age I'm glad women have a choice. Bloody hell we fought for the right to vote, surely a mother is entitled to feed her baby which ever way it suits them best.

in very sorry to hear you had to go through that. I can completely understand why that could cause you to choose against BF. I think you have misunderstood my point though...I said I lack respect (not that I have non) for women who vhoose to formula feed for NO reason. Not those that choose not to for perfectly understandable reasons such as your own.

 

[midori1999]

I dont see how a mum can choose to give their baby formula without even trying Breastfeeding first though?
Everyone knows its best and has numerous benefits for both child and mother...if you want the best for your baby then why wouldn't you at least try to provide them with all these benefits?

I appear to be the only breastfeeder here.
It's funny how people are allowed to put people for for doing something as simple as feeding in public yet as soon as someone says anything negative about formula it's the end of the world.

Another point I've been thinking about...what would all the formula feeding mums do in the case of a major natural disaster?
I think Breastfeeding is safer all around. Less sickness, better immunity and a source of nutrition no matter what.
I'm also a big 'Eco warrior' and prefer Breastfeeding as it doesn't require fuel burning factories and transit to reach us.

As I have said before I feel like I'm been made out to be the bad one here but to be honest that doesn't really bother me anymore. All I ever see on bnb is Breastfeeding mums made out this way by others. Jealousy is a nasty thing...I'm SO proud to BF my daughter and feel very strongly about spreading the word. Breastfeeding is a dying talent and it scares me that my daughter will grow up in a world where it is becoming more and more rare

Well as you said, you can't understand how anyone does not give bf a go. Well if you have never been in that position you will never will understand.
And tbh I don't care if people don't have respect for me because I didn't give it a go. All that matters is that the people I'm close to respect me for a great mum.

I'm sorry I dint understand what you're getting at. I haven't been in that position? I am a mother so I have been in the position to choose.
What are your reasons for not attempting to BF just out of interest? No one ever seems to give any.

Well if you must know I was sexually assaulted as a teenager and as an adult I suffer vaginismus where I suffer from painful sex and have bad issue with my breast. I've had therapy and counselling so how on earth you say you lack respect for me yet you haven't physically walked in my heels is ridiculous. Many people think that women who ff from the start usually do it for vanity but after speaking to a few, I've come to the conclusion that many people have underlying issues.

I don't mean to sound harsh or anything but I support anyone that wants to breastfeed but in this day and age I'm glad women have a choice. Bloody hell we fought for the right to vote, surely a mother is entitled to feed her baby which ever way it suits them best.

in very sorry to hear you had to go through that. I can completely understand why that could cause you to choose against BF. I think you have misunderstood my point though...I said I lack respect (not that I have non) for women who vhoose to formula feed for NO reason. Not those that choose not to for perfectly understandable reasons such as your own.

But surely this is the point. You deem that to be a good reason. Someone else might deem not wanting saggy breasts (not that BF gives you saggy breasts!) as a good reason. That is for them to decide, not anyone else.

Everyone has a reason, whether it is complicated or simple and whether they even know what the reason is or not.

Please don't think I am 'having a go'. I'm not trying to, but I am trying to explain why it's not OK to judge other women or anything else, for how they choose to feed their baby. Giving formula is not child abuse, after all!

 

[TigerLady]

surely so long as everyone can feed their baby how they want to then everyone is happy? I cant see why if someone chooses (for whatever reason) to formula feed their baby it has any effect on a breast fed baby (and vica versa) its not like the formula is going to jump into your babies mouth or like a breast feeding mum is going to come and try to feed your baby.

But see, this is where it starts to get very complicated.

Not BF a child that could be BF can, arguably, have a negative effect on my child. Similar to the way a parent who chooses to not vaccinate their child has a negative effect on my child.

FF babies are more likely to be sick. Sick bugs spread. The more FF babies there are, the more sick bugs there are to spread around and the more likely my baby will come in contact with one.

FF babies are more likely to suffer health complications later in life (obesity, diabetes, even cancer.) Taxpayers foot the bill for many of those expensive illnesses (in the US taxpayers AND healthy people foot the bill in a more complicated system.) So, my children will someday being paying for the illnesses of those FF babies who have grown up to have health conditions that might have been prevented or diminished if they had been BF.

Of course, these are very hard arguments to quantify. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. The same way the vaccination argument exists. Vaccinations don't prevent disease 100%, usually at about 98%. My kids are vaccinated, but diseases are on the increase due to so many not getting vaccinated. So, now my kids are more likely to get sick, even though they are vaccinated. Same with BF. BF helps minimize sickness, but not prevent it. Sending my kids to a daycare full of FF babies has exposed them to more illness than I can even quantify -- and they have gotten sick much more often because of it.

So, there is an argument to be made that increasing BF rates in general would benefit EVERYONE -- the society as a whole.

These are the reasons that I get a bit more frustrated when parents choose to FF out of convienence or lack of education or some similar reason. They may believe they have made things easier on themselves, but they've made things harder on both their kids and mine.

 

[Missy86]

surely so long as everyone can feed their baby how they want to then everyone is happy? I cant see why if someone chooses (for whatever reason) to formula feed their baby it has any effect on a breast fed baby (and vica versa) its not like the formula is going to jump into your babies mouth or like a breast feeding mum is going to come and try to feed your baby.

But see, this is where it starts to get very complicated.

Not BF a child that could be BF can, arguably, have a negative effect on my child. Similar to the way a parent who chooses to not vaccinate their child has a negative effect on my child.

FF babies are more likely to be sick. Sick bugs spread. The more FF babies there are, the more sick bugs there are to spread around and the more likely my baby will come in contact with one.

FF babies are more likely to suffer health complications later in life (obesity, diabetes, even cancer.) Taxpayers foot the bill for many of those expensive illnesses (in the US taxpayers AND healthy people foot the bill in a more complicated system.) So, my children will someday being paying for the illnesses of those FF babies who have grown up to have health conditions that might have been prevented or diminished if they had been BF.

Of course, these are very hard arguments to quantify. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. The same way the vaccination argument exists. Vaccinations don't prevent disease 100%, usually at about 98%. My kids are vaccinated, but diseases are on the increase due to so many not getting vaccinated. So, now my kids are more likely to get sick, even though they are vaccinated. Same with BF. BF helps minimize sickness, but not prevent it. Sending my kids to a daycare full of FF babies has exposed them to more illness than I can even quantify -- and they have gotten sick much more often because of it.

So, there is an argument to be made that increasing BF rates in general would benefit EVERYONE -- the society as a whole.

These are the reasons that I get a bit more frustrated when parents choose to FF out of convienence or lack of education or some similar reason. They may believe they have made things easier on themselves, but they've made things harder on both their kids and mine.

I gotta say I dont agree with most of the points you have made there, toddlers and babys do need to be exposed to some illness to build up their immunity. That is what makes them stronger

 

[Ourlittlebump]

I dont see how a mum can choose to give their baby formula without even trying Breastfeeding first though?
Everyone knows its best and has numerous benefits for both child and mother...if you want the best for your baby then why wouldn't you at least try to provide them with all these benefits?

I appear to be the only breastfeeder here.
It's funny how people are allowed to put people for for doing something as simple as feeding in public yet as soon as someone says anything negative about formula it's the end of the world.

Another point I've been thinking about...what would all the formula feeding mums do in the case of a major natural disaster?
I think Breastfeeding is safer all around. Less sickness, better immunity and a source of nutrition no matter what.
I'm also a big 'Eco warrior' and prefer Breastfeeding as it doesn't require fuel burning factories and transit to reach us.

As I have said before I feel like I'm been made out to be the bad one here but to be honest that doesn't really bother me anymore. All I ever see on bnb is Breastfeeding mums made out this way by others. Jealousy is a nasty thing...I'm SO proud to BF my daughter and feel very strongly about spreading the word. Breastfeeding is a dying talent and it scares me that my daughter will grow up in a world where it is becoming more and more rare

Well as you said, you can't understand how anyone does not give bf a go. Well if you have never been in that position you will never will understand.
And tbh I don't care if people don't have respect for me because I didn't give it a go. All that matters is that the people I'm close to respect me for a great mum.

I'm sorry I dint understand what you're getting at. I haven't been in that position? I am a mother so I have been in the position to choose.
What are your reasons for not attempting to BF just out of interest? No one ever seems to give any.

Well if you must know I was sexually assaulted as a teenager and as an adult I suffer vaginismus where I suffer from painful sex and have bad issue with my breast. I've had therapy and counselling so how on earth you say you lack respect for me yet you haven't physically walked in my heels is ridiculous. Many people think that women who ff from the start usually do it for vanity but after speaking to a few, I've come to the conclusion that many people have underlying issues.

I don't mean to sound harsh or anything but I support anyone that wants to breastfeed but in this day and age I'm glad women have a choice. Bloody hell we fought for the right to vote, surely a mother is entitled to feed her baby which ever way it suits them best.

in very sorry to hear you had to go through that. I can completely understand why that could cause you to choose against BF. I think you have misunderstood my point though...I said I lack respect (not that I have non) for women who vhoose to formula feed for NO reason. Not those that choose not to for perfectly understandable reasons such as your own.

But surely this is the point. You deem that to be a good reason. Someone else might deem not wanting saggy breasts (not that BF gives you saggy breasts!) as a good reason. That is for them to decide, not anyone else.

Everyone has a reason, whether it is complicated or simple and whether they even know what the reason is or not.

Please don't think I am 'having a go'. I'm not trying to, but I am trying to explain why it's not OK to judge other women or anything else, for how they choose to feed their baby. Giving formula is not child abuse, after all!

Daffy breasts and vanity could never be a good enough reason not to breastfeed. I think we all know that.
Any mother that chooses self image over her child having the best start is extremely selfish. A mother should put her child above her self and all others no matter what.

 

[TigerLady]

surely so long as everyone can feed their baby how they want to then everyone is happy? I cant see why if someone chooses (for whatever reason) to formula feed their baby it has any effect on a breast fed baby (and vica versa) its not like the formula is going to jump into your babies mouth or like a breast feeding mum is going to come and try to feed your baby.

But see, this is where it starts to get very complicated.

Not BF a child that could be BF can, arguably, have a negative effect on my child. Similar to the way a parent who chooses to not vaccinate their child has a negative effect on my child.

FF babies are more likely to be sick. Sick bugs spread. The more FF babies there are, the more sick bugs there are to spread around and the more likely my baby will come in contact with one.

FF babies are more likely to suffer health complications later in life (obesity, diabetes, even cancer.) Taxpayers foot the bill for many of those expensive illnesses (in the US taxpayers AND healthy people foot the bill in a more complicated system.) So, my children will someday being paying for the illnesses of those FF babies who have grown up to have health conditions that might have been prevented or diminished if they had been BF.

Of course, these are very hard arguments to quantify. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. The same way the vaccination argument exists. Vaccinations don't prevent disease 100%, usually at about 98%. My kids are vaccinated, but diseases are on the increase due to so many not getting vaccinated. So, now my kids are more likely to get sick, even though they are vaccinated. Same with BF. BF helps minimize sickness, but not prevent it. Sending my kids to a daycare full of FF babies has exposed them to more illness than I can even quantify -- and they have gotten sick much more often because of it.

So, there is an argument to be made that increasing BF rates in general would benefit EVERYONE -- the society as a whole.

These are the reasons that I get a bit more frustrated when parents choose to FF out of convienence or lack of education or some similar reason. They may believe they have made things easier on themselves, but they've made things harder on both their kids and mine.

I gotta say I dont agree with most of the points you have made there

That's fine. But you haven't stated why? Probably because you don't like them. They are valid arguments with facts to back them.

I'm not saying they should be used as reasons to regulate how babies are fed. However, they should be used as reasons to make serious attempts to increase BF education and support with the ultimate aim of increasing overall BF rates.

 

[Missy86]

Sorry I did add to my reply

 

[TigerLady]

Limited exposure to disease vectors is a natural part of life. However, a child's immune system is not biologically ready to handle those exposures at full force until sometime around the age of 4-8 when the immune system is fully developed. Until that time, a child's immune system relies heavily on the natural antibodies found in breastmilk.

And if you really believe it is "good" for a baby to expose them to disease vectors, may I suggest you take yours to a sick ward? Next time you know someone with measles, whooping cough, pneumonia, etc. simply ask them to please cough on your baby.

See, that makes no sense does it? You'd never do that. You'd actively work to keep your baby from being exposed to those things.

Thus, my argument stands.

 

[vintage67]

Are you the poster that once said you had never seen a healthy formula fed baby? (tiger lady)

 

[midori1999]

I dont see how a mum can choose to give their baby formula without even trying Breastfeeding first though?
Everyone knows its best and has numerous benefits for both child and mother...if you want the best for your baby then why wouldn't you at least try to provide them with all these benefits?

I appear to be the only breastfeeder here.
It's funny how people are allowed to put people for for doing something as simple as feeding in public yet as soon as someone says anything negative about formula it's the end of the world.

Another point I've been thinking about...what would all the formula feeding mums do in the case of a major natural disaster?
I think Breastfeeding is safer all around. Less sickness, better immunity and a source of nutrition no matter what.
I'm also a big 'Eco warrior' and prefer Breastfeeding as it doesn't require fuel burning factories and transit to reach us.

As I have said before I feel like I'm been made out to be the bad one here but to be honest that doesn't really bother me anymore. All I ever see on bnb is Breastfeeding mums made out this way by others. Jealousy is a nasty thing...I'm SO proud to BF my daughter and feel very strongly about spreading the word. Breastfeeding is a dying talent and it scares me that my daughter will grow up in a world where it is becoming more and more rare

Well as you said, you can't understand how anyone does not give bf a go. Well if you have never been in that position you will never will understand.
And tbh I don't care if people don't have respect for me because I didn't give it a go. All that matters is that the people I'm close to respect me for a great mum.

I'm sorry I dint understand what you're getting at. I haven't been in that position? I am a mother so I have been in the position to choose.
What are your reasons for not attempting to BF just out of interest? No one ever seems to give any.

Well if you must know I was sexually assaulted as a teenager and as an adult I suffer vaginismus where I suffer from painful sex and have bad issue with my breast. I've had therapy and counselling so how on earth you say you lack respect for me yet you haven't physically walked in my heels is ridiculous. Many people think that women who ff from the start usually do it for vanity but after speaking to a few, I've come to the conclusion that many people have underlying issues.

I don't mean to sound harsh or anything but I support anyone that wants to breastfeed but in this day and age I'm glad women have a choice. Bloody hell we fought for the right to vote, surely a mother is entitled to feed her baby which ever way it suits them best.

in very sorry to hear you had to go through that. I can completely understand why that could cause you to choose against BF. I think you have misunderstood my point though...I said I lack respect (not that I have non) for women who vhoose to formula feed for NO reason. Not those that choose not to for perfectly understandable reasons such as your own.

But surely this is the point. You deem that to be a good reason. Someone else might deem not wanting saggy breasts (not that BF gives you saggy breasts!) as a good reason. That is for them to decide, not anyone else.

Everyone has a reason, whether it is complicated or simple and whether they even know what the reason is or not.

Please don't think I am 'having a go'. I'm not trying to, but I am trying to explain why it's not OK to judge other women or anything else, for how they choose to feed their baby. Giving formula is not child abuse, after all!

Daffy breasts and vanity could never be a good enough reason not to breastfeed. I think we all know that.
Any mother that chooses self image over her child having the best start is extremely selfish. A mother should put her child above her self and all others no matter what.

Really? To you. Obviously not to all women.

Is it selfish and vanity for someone to choose how they look above their child, or is a sign of our society and what it holds as important and probably therefore actually that woman's insecurity as opposed to vanity or selfishness.

Plus, I don't necessarily agree that a mother should put her child above herself and all others no matter what. Surely that would mean never leaving your child with another person? Never having a night out?

What about if I want to go out and get drunk and therefore don't breastfeed my baby that night or all of the next day? Selfish? Of course it is, but I am an individual as well as a Mother and sometimes I just have to come first. As long as my baby doesn't suffer because of that, then I don't see the problem?

Yes, it would be great if everyone chose to breastfeed. However, what seems like a silly or selfish reason to one person might seem like a huge issue. Women can and do suffer phsycological issues because of how their breasts look, it is one of the reasons 'cosmetic' breast surgery is available on the NHS and why the same surgery is a multi million pound industry.

 

[TigerLady]

Are you the poster that once said you had never seen a healthy formula fed baby? (tiger lady)

Nope. I would never say that as it is utter nonesense. You have to look at those things on population levels with statistically significant sample sizes.

And the studies have shown that BF babies tend to be healthier. That doesn't mean all BF babies are healthy. Nor does it mean all FF babies are sickly. It means only what it states.

And it makes sense. There are live antibodies in breastmilk. There are also biological components that help encourage complete development of the infant in an optimal manner. Those things are not replicated in forumula. Science isn't always better.

All of that makes sense when you also consider humans are technically born prematurely (even at full term.) As humans evolved a large brain size, the brain of a fetus became so big that the skull housing it became too big for a mother to birth (and live) at full term. Thus, over a great deal of time, "premature" birth became the norm. Human infants are born incredibly helpless and underdeveloped compared to all other primates -- because they are born too early. Breastmilk helping to continue to develop that human child into the toddler years was Nature's way of combating the premature birth problem.

The only other animals born so early are marsupials, and they complete their gestation fixed to a nipple with a constant supply of breastmilk in a sheltered pouch.

 

[midori1999]

surely so long as everyone can feed their baby how they want to then everyone is happy? I cant see why if someone chooses (for whatever reason) to formula feed their baby it has any effect on a breast fed baby (and vica versa) its not like the formula is going to jump into your babies mouth or like a breast feeding mum is going to come and try to feed your baby.

But see, this is where it starts to get very complicated.

Not BF a child that could be BF can, arguably, have a negative effect on my child. Similar to the way a parent who chooses to not vaccinate their child has a negative effect on my child.

FF babies are more likely to be sick. Sick bugs spread. The more FF babies there are, the more sick bugs there are to spread around and the more likely my baby will come in contact with one.

FF babies are more likely to suffer health complications later in life (obesity, diabetes, even cancer.) Taxpayers foot the bill for many of those expensive illnesses (in the US taxpayers AND healthy people foot the bill in a more complicated system.) So, my children will someday being paying for the illnesses of those FF babies who have grown up to have health conditions that might have been prevented or diminished if they had been BF.

Of course, these are very hard arguments to quantify. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. The same way the vaccination argument exists. Vaccinations don't prevent disease 100%, usually at about 98%. My kids are vaccinated, but diseases are on the increase due to so many not getting vaccinated. So, now my kids are more likely to get sick, even though they are vaccinated. Same with BF. BF helps minimize sickness, but not prevent it. Sending my kids to a daycare full of FF babies has exposed them to more illness than I can even quantify -- and they have gotten sick much more often because of it.

So, there is an argument to be made that increasing BF rates in general would benefit EVERYONE -- the society as a whole.

These are the reasons that I get a bit more frustrated when parents choose to FF out of convienence or lack of education or some similar reason. They may believe they have made things easier on themselves, but they've made things harder on both their kids and mine.

I do agree that increased BF rates would benefit society as a whole and I do think that maybe 'frustrated with' is a better term than 'lose respect for'. Like I said, in an ideal world, everyone would breastfeed, but I just don't believe it's for anyone to say what another woman should do with her body or judge that woman for her choices regarding feeding her baby, particularly as we often don't know the reasons or events that caused that woman to come to that decision.

 

[Ourlittlebump]

I dont see how a mum can choose to give their baby formula without even trying Breastfeeding first though?
Everyone knows its best and has numerous benefits for both child and mother...if you want the best for your baby then why wouldn't you at least try to provide them with all these benefits?

I appear to be the only breastfeeder here.
It's funny how people are allowed to put people for for doing something as simple as feeding in public yet as soon as someone says anything negative about formula it's the end of the world.

Another point I've been thinking about...what would all the formula feeding mums do in the case of a major natural disaster?
I think Breastfeeding is safer all around. Less sickness, better immunity and a source of nutrition no matter what.
I'm also a big 'Eco warrior' and prefer Breastfeeding as it doesn't require fuel burning factories and transit to reach us.

As I have said before I feel like I'm been made out to be the bad one here but to be honest that doesn't really bother me anymore. All I ever see on bnb is Breastfeeding mums made out this way by others. Jealousy is a nasty thing...I'm SO proud to BF my daughter and feel very strongly about spreading the word. Breastfeeding is a dying talent and it scares me that my daughter will grow up in a world where it is becoming more and more rare

Well as you said, you can't understand how anyone does not give bf a go. Well if you have never been in that position you will never will understand.
And tbh I don't care if people don't have respect for me because I didn't give it a go. All that matters is that the people I'm close to respect me for a great mum.

I'm sorry I dint understand what you're getting at. I haven't been in that position? I am a mother so I have been in the position to choose.
What are your reasons for not attempting to BF just out of interest? No one ever seems to give any.

Well if you must know I was sexually assaulted as a teenager and as an adult I suffer vaginismus where I suffer from painful sex and have bad issue with my breast. I've had therapy and counselling so how on earth you say you lack respect for me yet you haven't physically walked in my heels is ridiculous. Many people think that women who ff from the start usually do it for vanity but after speaking to a few, I've come to the conclusion that many people have underlying issues.

I don't mean to sound harsh or anything but I support anyone that wants to breastfeed but in this day and age I'm glad women have a choice. Bloody hell we fought for the right to vote, surely a mother is entitled to feed her baby which ever way it suits them best.

in very sorry to hear you had to go through that. I can completely understand why that could cause you to choose against BF. I think you have misunderstood my point though...I said I lack respect (not that I have non) for women who vhoose to formula feed for NO reason. Not those that choose not to for perfectly understandable reasons such as your own.

But surely this is the point. You deem that to be a good reason. Someone else might deem not wanting saggy breasts (not that BF gives you saggy breasts!) as a good reason. That is for them to decide, not anyone else.

Everyone has a reason, whether it is complicated or simple and whether they even know what the reason is or not.

Please don't think I am 'having a go'. I'm not trying to, but I am trying to explain why it's not OK to judge other women or anything else, for how they choose to feed their baby. Giving formula is not child abuse, after all!

Daffy breasts and vanity could never be a good enough reason not to breastfeed. I think we all know that.
Any mother that chooses self image over her child having the best start is extremely selfish. A mother should put her child above her self and all others no matter what.

Really? To you. Obviously not to all women.

Is it selfish and vanity for someone to choose how they look above their child, or is a sign of our society and what it holds as important and probably therefore actually that woman's insecurity as opposed to vanity or selfishness.

Plus, I don't necessarily agree that a mother should put her child above herself and all others no matter what. Surely that would mean never leaving your child with another person? Never having a night out?

What about if I want to go out and get drunk and therefore don't breastfeed my baby that night or all of the next day? Selfish? Of course it is, but I am an individual as well as a Mother and sometimes I just have to come first. As long as my baby doesn't suffer because of that, then I don't see the problem?

Yes, it would be great if everyone chose to breastfeed. However, what seems like a silly or selfish reason to one person might seem like a huge issue. Women can and do suffer phsycological issues because of how their breasts look, it is one of the reasons 'cosmetic' breast surgery is available on the NHS and why the same surgery is a multi million pound industry.

Perhaps they should have dealt with their insecurities before they fell pregnant and it affected another persons life then?
The same stands for you wanting to go out and get drunk. If that's the life style you like and your child gets in the way of that you should have never become a mother...it's not fair. Your child should always always always be first!!
Lots of things are available on the NHS because we live in a society where people have been allowed to abuse these systems by stating that things affect them so much they cant go on blah blah.