What If There Was No Formula?

[lovie]

The problem is that the stats about the benefits are hard to seperate from the class/income of the bf mothers: FF is alot more common in low income areas so therefore all the other aspects of life attached to low income areas effect the results.

Like that statistic about bf babies being more clever that ff babies, they score better in maths and english tests at the age of 5/7/11/14. But bf mothers are more likely to be older/middle class/high income earners/with a degree, so those statistics could just as well be caused by the majority of the bf children being sent to good schools and having a parent who has a higher education so therefore a parent who is more likely to push the child in their own education.

 

[addie140910]

Seriously?
How would women cope? What would doctors suggest? How would you deal with low supply??

Interesting thought.

Drink unpasterized raw cows milk. Isn't that was done in the western days? Surley there was no formula, yet not everyone could breastfeed im sure.

I breastfeed Evelyn, but she does get formula as well due to low supply. We are working on that but I make no apologies for how I have chosen to raise my daughter. She is healthy and thriving and that is thanks to formula surely because without it she would have been hungry. I am glad that there was something created that is healthy for my baby and could nurish her when I couldn't give her what she needs.

My baby is going to receive higher test scores because I am a busy body stay at home mom and my grandma was a teacher before she retired.

(So there saying because I will take the time to work with her.)

She will not achieve those test scores because of formula or because of breastfeeding. Really!

 

[nosocks]

Seriously?
How would women cope? What would doctors suggest? How would you deal with low supply??

Interesting thought.

Drink unpasterized raw cows milk. Isn't that was done in the western days? Surley there was no formula, yet not everyone could breastfeed im sure.


and is still done today in less developed countries where formula is ridiculously expensive. I live in kenya and formula is so very expensive here- there is just no way a woman earning less than $80 a month can afford formula. But she has to go out and work to support her family. So whats the alternative for her? Often women travel hundreds of miles to work in the cities- they cant express or breastfedd... they cant afford formula. they have to use cows milk. I'm not saying its the best thing- but its their only option. This is why the bf/ ff debate irritates me a bit. At least we have the privelage of the choice to provide one of these- some (a huge percentage of the worlds population really!) dont. We should put more energy into solving these problems instead of criticing one another for formula feeding.

 

[omfgski]

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[TigerLady]

The problem is that the stats about the benefits are hard to seperate from the class/income of the bf mothers: FF is alot more common in low income areas so therefore all the other aspects of life attached to low income areas effect the results.

Like that statistic about bf babies being more clever that ff babies, they score better in maths and english tests at the age of 5/7/11/14. But bf mothers are more likely to be older/middle class/high income earners/with a degree, so those statistics could just as well be caused by the majority of the bf children being sent to good schools and having a parent who has a higher education so therefore a parent who is more likely to push the child in their own education.

Or it could just as easily be related to the special DHAs found in breast milk which are specifically designed/evolved to promote proper neuron development in the developing brain. Science has not been able to replicate those chemicals properly, so formula simply doesn't have them nor the same ability to build a brain. 98% of brain development occurs before the age of 2.

More likely it is down to both.

And, if you read thoroughly, in those studies SES and education are controlled for -- BF babies still come out with higher IQs on average. That doesn't mean all BF babies are smart and FF ones are dumb. It's just a general trend over large sample sizes with outliers on both ends of both groups.

The neuron building substances explain it better. Especially as IQ tests don't test knowledge or education, they try to test more basic raw aptitude, especially when administered young. Otherwise, your IQ would dramatically increase as you get older. Rather, it tends to stay the same and then decrease later in life as your brain looses function. You're not loosing everything you learned so much as your brain connections aren't working as well.

Once you understanding the details of the biology and studies it isn't statistical manipulation. It's supported evidence.

 

[lovie]

The studies I looked at did't use IQ and IQ is generally considered a unreliable and outdated way of measuring intelligence (in the uk at least)

I have stidies biology along with sociology and psychology and the first thing we were taught is that when you have stidies which have hard to control groups you have to look at them critically. I personally don't think it is that easy to ballence class as it is such a subtle and subjective thing, subjective isn't something that I think lends itself well to biological studies. A study that I would trust would be an identical twin study on a large scale, but it's not really ethical to do such a study.

For example if i ran a study looking at children who are dressed in mini boden clothing (expensive clothing brand often choosen by middle class parents) I would probably find that those children who wore mini boden clothing were in fact more intelligent than those who wore other brands of clothing.. i could conclude that the over priced t-shirts were somehow adding to the brain development of these children and declare myself "right" in buying 25 pound t-shirts.

With intellegence and bf my mother and aunt and uncle were ff but all 3 of them have a least a masters degree 2 of them have phd's so the body clearly has other ways developing the brain so that ff babies can become among the highest acheivers academically in society. having said that the fact my grandparents both went to Cambridge university and have surrounded the family with intellectual conversations and put a huge emphasis on education probably had more to do with their success than what they drank for the first 6 months of their life.

What about research that highlights the risks of breastfeeding? the huge amounts of toxins mothers give to their children whilst bf. You havn't mentioned those at all, it's all very well to quote (in my opinion dubious) pro bf statistics and decided that you are "right" bassed on those but at no time have you mentioned how you weighed up the risk of perfluorooctanoic acid, mercury, benzene and many more things most people would never dream of feeding a tiny developing baby.

I know it's nice to think that issues are clear cut and there is a "right" camp and there is a "wrong" camp but i really don't think that is the case in this situation. As many ladies have shared with us there are huge emotional considerations when talking about bf. In the uk people are living longer and are staying in education for longer despite the bf statistics.

 

[summer rain]

Such contaminants have been found in infant formula as well? A few chemicals have been found at higher levels in breastmilk but at the same time some chemicals, heavy metals and pollutants have been found in infant formula but not found in breastmilk. Formula is usually made from cows milk which is derived from cows feeding on grass that grows in the soil, soil being one of the biggest sources of contaminants there is. Then the formula is reconstituted with water which may also contain contaminants and put into bottles or cups which may also contain chemicals which can possibly leach, bisphenol A has been banned but there are other chemicals still in the bottles. So if that's a risk of BF then it has to be taken into account as a risk of FF too, surely? Xx

 

[summer rain]

https://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2431/10/63

 

[TigerLady]

I have a degree in Biology from a major research university (with a dual Education major) and have also studied psych. No need to explain how to control studies to me.

I still think, biologically speaking, it makes SENSE breast milk is good for brain development and has substances which promote healthy brains.

 

[alaskagrown]

I always wondered what breastfeeding rates would be if WIC didn't provide free formula in the US. And not to bash WIC in any way, shape, or form - they're letting me borrow a really nice breast pump

 

[going_crazy]

If there was no formula then my LO would have died.

Even a wet nurse or expressed milk, or cows milk, or goats milk wouldn't have helped. So yes, I am extremely grateful that formula milk is available.

 

[chellebelle8]

I tell you exactly what would happen if formula didn't exist...we would go back to the time where infant mortality rates were enough to make you shudder..who in their right mind would want This?

 

[TattiesMum]

Back I'm the day if they couldent afford a wet-nurse people gave animal milks instead and if they couldent afford that they mixed flour and even chalk with water to feed to the baby. I'm glad of the alternatives we have now.

I'm glad of the alternatives we have now too ... I BF my own children but happily support my daughter FF hers so I have no axe to grind. But back when there was no formula people had to manage in different ways and I think it's interesting to explore that just as history and to give us an understanding of how life was for our Great Grandmothers (or even Grandmothers)

My ex MIL had her first child on an island in the middle of WW2 (my ex was a 'change of life' baby - his older siblings were a lot older than him). Because of rationing and shipping problems there was no formula available at all and she had no milk - it simply didn't come in. So her son was wet nursed by another family member and another woman from the village and he thrived

My Mother was also a war baby - and adopted so my Gran had no milk of her own. They lived in Cumbria and were quite isolated so she was fed on formula when they could get it but otherwise was given goats or watered down cows milk - and weaned very early as they tended to do back then.

 

[alaskagrown]

My grandma wet nursed another baby alongside my mother. This was in Germany in the late 50's. Now I'm curious as to what the circumstances were (availability of formula, cost of formula?)! I will have to ask

I am sort of wet-nursing for a baby. I'm an exclusive pumper and I produce twice as much as my baby needs so I have donated over 3000 oz already to an ill baby with cerebral palsy. I guess she had fallen off the charts months ago and was hovering at the same weight for several months. Once she got my milk she started packing on the pounds!!

 

[Missy86]

That is such a nice thing to do alaskagrown

 

[Foogirl]

I keep thinking of that advert for one of the children's charities where they show the woman who can't feed her month old baby because she is malnourished, feeding the child with a mixture of flour and water. That's what happens.

 

[JASMAK]

Formula does save lives, but I think more women could breast feed if given PROPER advice and support.

 

[chellebelle8]

I think your right...there is not enough advice about bf but I also think we sometimes underplay the value of formula.

 

[Foogirl]

I think it's more that we overplay the value of breastfeeding. Sure it's good stuff, especially in the early weeks and especially for Preemies, but beyond that, it gives a short term protection against bugs and stuff and it's a good balance of nutrition. Formula is a perfectly acceptable alternative. I haven't seen the professionals en masse talk it down, rather they talk brestmilk up.

 

[JASMAK]

I think it's more that we overplay the value of breastfeeding. Sure it's good stuff, especially in the early weeks and especially for Preemies, but beyond that, it gives a short term protection against bugs and stuff and it's a good balance of nutrition. Formula is a perfectly acceptable alternative. I haven't seen the professionals en masse talk it down, rather they talk brestmilk up.

Although I also think formula is acceptable, breastmilk is MUCH more than you described. It has many benefits for mother AND baby, into toddlerhood.