What If There Was No Formula?

[angelandbump]

I haven't read many replies as i would be here a long time and the footy is on so may i say sorry if i repeat what others have wrote.

People are quick to jump down the throats of mothers who say they were not able to breast feed and this whole 1% statistics may be true by one study but i can assure you it is not accurate like most 'statistics'.

People need to remember it is not always the mother!

What about babies that can't latch on? My son was 6 weeks early and had a very poor sucking reflex. I had milk flowing from me but he was tube fed for a week and every day i tried to breast feed him but his relax was very poor so i pumped milk. Now by the time my son was 8 weeks old, i had given up all hope of breast feeding him as my midwife tried to help then she got two different breast feeding specialists out who agreed that some babies when born early for example just can't do it.

I was very fortunate that due to freezing my breast milk etc., he was bottle fed breast milk for his first 3 and a half months then he was put on to formula as per recommended by my health visitor because my milk supply reduced very quickly. But some mothers who pump has problems with milk drying up very fast due to the lack of nipple stimulation from baby.

Luckily, due to technology we are lucky enough that such substitutes are available. You wouldn't question medicines which scientists have made to benefit us, so why question formula?

It is a good question and I don’t know why but it leaves me feeling frustrated

EDIT: Also take in to account the mothers who suffer with PND who can't breast feed not because of a physical condition but mental. I think we are very lucky that formula exists.

 

[SnuggleMum]

It is a shame that you were told by two specialists that some babies just don't get it, angelandbump. It takes different amounts of time (3 months in my case) for babies to get it, but almost all do - I've only ever known one baby not learn to latch. I've known dozens get it between 3-8 months! There is always, always hope, and it was unfair of them to say there wasn't. (That isn't to say you should carry on expressing, that is a personal decision, one each woman has to make for herself, but I think it was unfair of them to say it was hopeless).

 

[angelandbump]

It is a shame that you were told by two specialists that some babies just don't get it, angelandbump. It takes different amounts of time (3 months in my case) for babies to get it, but almost all do - I've only ever known one baby not learn to latch. I've known dozens get it between 3-8 months! There is always, always hope, and it was unfair of them to say there wasn't. (That isn't to say you should carry on expressing, that is a personal decision, one each woman has to make for herself, but I think it was unfair of them to say it was hopeless).

In my sons case, he had to be on special teats where the milk basically just had a steady flow and it requires very minimum sucking. They tried all sortes and visited 4 times a day for a week but he just got very upset.

I still to this day feel a huge sense of guilt for not being able to breast feed and it is a shame that some people end of with depression over this which from what i hear is more common than i thought.

They need more experienced breast feeding nurses in the NICU where my son was I think and maybe things may have been better but never mind

 

[Odd Socks]

I think we're lucky formula does exist.

First off, why shouldn't a mother have the right to choose how to feed her baby? Formula isn't poison, we all know "breast is best" & all that, but if a mother doesn't want to breastfeed, it's great she has the option not to.

Secondly, it doesn't work for everyone. Thank goodness there's another option when someone so desperately wants to breastfeed & can't, for whatever reason.

I'm very pro-breastfeeding for any mother who wants to breastfeed, moreso after failing to breastfeed my eldest daughter & knowing the emotions that go with having to bottle feed when it's not been what you've wanted. I'm so lucky that I've been able to breastfeed my second daughter & that it's come easy to her & I.

It's not for anyone to judge a mother about whether she feeds her child breastmilk or formula milk. It's no-one's business but theirs! But something I found out with Bella & since, was that most of the people who were formula feeding had wanted to breastfeed & hadn't managed to for whatever reason.

I went to hell & back to try & breastfeed Bella & I've spoken to dozens of other mothers with similar stories.

xx

 

[midori1999]

I think we're lucky formula does exist.

First off, why shouldn't a mother have the right to choose how to feed her baby? Formula isn't poison, we all know "breast is best" & all that, but if a mother doesn't want to breastfeed, it's great she has the option not to.

Secondly, it doesn't work for everyone. Thank goodness there's another option when someone so desperately wants to breastfeed & can't, for whatever reason.

I'm very pro-breastfeeding for any mother who wants to breastfeed, moreso after failing to breastfeed my eldest daughter & knowing the emotions that go with having to bottle feed when it's not been what you've wanted. I'm so lucky that I've been able to breastfeed my second daughter & that it's come easy to her & I.

It's not for anyone to judge a mother about whether she feeds her child breastmilk or formula milk. It's no-one's business but theirs! But something I found out with Bella & since, was that most of the people who were formula feeding had wanted to breastfeed & hadn't managed to for whatever reason.

I went to hell & back to try & breastfeed Bella & I've spoken to dozens of other mothers with similar stories.

xx

I think only one person has been judgemental about how Mums feed their babies on this thread. IMO, that is not something that should happen, Mum's should absolutely have the choice.

I do believe formula should be available and is needed, but if it didn't exist, the one good thing that would come of that would be that BF support would improve. In countries and cultures where formula is rarely used, BF support is outstanding. Not just from health professionals, (in some places there aren't really any health professionals) but from peers, because they have mostly all breastfed themselves and so know a lot about it and how to offer support regarding breastfeeding. In these countries and cultures, being physically unable to breastfeed is practically unheard of too. That's not a co-incidence, is it?

Just to clarify, I am not saying in any way that formula shouldn't be available.

 

[summer rain]

I am always confused by what people mean by lack of breastfeeding support ? i know this is ignorant, but what can be offered to help ? i genuinely don't know, at my hospital, as soon as i gave birth i was asked if i was breast feeding, and within minutes the "breast feeding support team" were in my room lol ! so from feed no 1 i had two women in there helping me, i assumed this is/was standard practice. If it isn't then this is something that every hospital should offer.

It varies considerably from area to area, hospital to hospital. The hospitals in this area are well known for pushing formula and not offering any practical hands on BF support, the LC only visits the hospital once every 3 weeks (no-one is in hospital for three weeks>! ) and if its the same one still working she was horribly rude to me when I had my eldest and told me to just FF. There is a BF support team but they are out in the community not in the hospitals and due to funding restraints they are limited to giving advice over the phone or at BF support groups, none of which are near to where I live and there are a few other areas of the borough not covered as well. xx

 

[summer rain]

=S Any excuse is a bloody good excuse. just think that if you had to go to the Drs first how meny would walk away with advice and support over just popin to asda for formula for milk because they cant be ased. Im not against formula, just think that people decide not to even try or ask for suport and give in to quickly. Maybe im wrong. but im alowed my opnion no?

I think the "can't be arsed" is unnecessary. The people I know who gave up bfing early on were at their wit's end and just couldn't cope - it wasn't through lack of trying.
Also, I have very little faith that gps would be the correct people to give that support. Also, the support needs to be in hospital. By the time you get home it can be too late as the nipple damage may already be unbearable. When I asked a midwife in hospital to check my latch because bfing was excruciating I was told it was normal for bfing to hurt at first. The only reason I continued was because my Lo was a very efficient feeder and only fed for 15mins at a time. Turns out she had tongue tie. No one ever looked until I asked.

My eldest's tongue and lip tie was never detected despite him being unable to feed well from breast or bottle, my youngest's mouth was checked for tongue tie by a midwife specifically trained to look for it, and a paediatrician in the hospital when he was born, neither of them spotted it despite it looking quite severe, thankfully it was better than it looked and didn't affect his weight gain etc but had it done so I doubt any real help would have been offered. With my second youngest he had severe allergic symptoms almost from birth and between 2-4 months he was very poorly, I needed the help and support and it just wasn't there, instead my supply was blamed, I was told to exclusively express for a few weeks so I'd 'know what he was getting', though the HV wrote in his red book that it probably was due to allergies and he needed to be referred to a specialist so she was just trying to bully me and pressure me into giving formula which I eventually broke down and did, on comfort formula he was a completely different baby so I don't regret him having it but I certainly didn't give up because 'I couldn't be arsed', gave up due to lack of support yes that certainly was true. xx

 

[meli1981]

i believe every mother should have the right to choose how they feed their baby. breastfeeding shouldnt be forced on anyone. the benefits of breastmilk should be shared with the mother and then she can decide from there. this is coming from a mom who ebf my baby for eighteen months, and my current lo for nine months

 

[indy and lara]

Women wouldn't have the freedom to choose to do what is best for them and their families, and would have to make do however they could. For the rich, they would have donor milk and wetnurses. Those who couldn't afford that... either they would cobble by with homemade "formula" or their baby would die.

Personally I find it fantastic that we are fortunate enough to live in a society where there is a safe and nutritious alternative to breastmilk. Yes, I'm aware that someone is going to turn around and say "But formula ISN'T SAFE!", but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

As for the 1% statistic... I've yet to see a truly rigorous scientific study which verifies this figure. And as far as I understand it, that's "1%" can't produce anything. It doesn't include those who have supply issues which would preclude them from being able to solely breastfeed without supplementing. Also, bandying about that figure is remarkably misleading. To put this into perspective a bit - 0.0085% of women in England will be diagnosed with cervical cancer. Yet you don't see anyone saying "Oh well, it's such a small number that it's not really worth talking about..."

Really strongly agree with this post.

I BF for 14 months and used to be a bit meh about people who chose not to BF. But you know, down the line, I really strongly believe it is NONE of my business how people are feeding their children as long as they are feeding their children. People make all sorts of choices in parenting that we may agree or disagree with. I made my choice. Of course I think it is the right and the best choice as it is the one I made. However, it does not mean that choosing to FF is the wrong choice for someone else. For example, if BF would really upset someone or they really don't want to do it then I do not believe it is for me, or anyone else to tell them they are wrong. We all know the benefits (and I really buy into the fact that BF has so many benefits) but sometimes you have to accept that people make different choices.

So what would happen if there was no formula? The affluent would get a wet nurse. Those without that kind of income would give their baby cow or goat milk. If people think formula is 'bad' for a baby, just stop and think what cows' milk can do to digestive systems of young babies.

 

[meli1981]

oh my lo cant tolerate cows milk, she gets soooo constipated, but shes fine on toddler formula

 

[Missy86]

This is still VERY raw for me and my LO is currently in hospital poorly so sorry if I come across as 'angry' or emotional

I wanted to BF this time around SO much. So much so I didn't think failure was an option and I didn't buy formula 'just in case'. With my first son I had PND and I was convinced that I wouldn't get it this time because I was going to be BFing. When Oliver was born bfing started off great and it continued to be great. He latched well, fed well, barely and soreness and I found it simple. But when Oliver was a week old that familiar dark cloud began to creep over me, I started to become tearful, my bond with Oliver began to fade and I could feel myself distancing myself from him. I started to dread feeds and cry when he needed feeding because I just didn't want to do it; I didn't want him near me. I realised that PND was setting in again and at this point I hated breastfeeding. But I carried on its best for him and I thought it would aid my bond. But the opposite happened, me dreading the feeds caused my bond with him to worsen, I began to resent him and when I looked at him I just felt nothing. This Sunday I hit rock bottom, I posted on here but it didn't seem to help. Then Oliver woke for a feed, I ended up lying on my landing in the foetal position, covering my ears sobbing. Because I didn’t want to feed him, I wanted to run away as far as I could and never come back. I was having thoughts of self-harm as I thought my boys would be better off without me. My OH rang my mum and my parents came round, my mum actually rocked me in her arms like a child and I felt as helpless as one tbh. I just broke down and it all came flooding out. On Monday I gave him and Oliver had his first formula feed. Honestly? It felt like a HUGE weight had been lifted, I felt better in myself tbh. I was still very down but I felt better. On Wednesday I was cuddling him and for the first time in weeks I was ENJOYING IT, I was kissing my baby and talking to him. The bond was and still is slowly returning. Unfortunately he is now n hospital with a urine infection (nothing to do with stopping bfing I have been told) and whilst he has been in my maternal instinct has been growing stronger. Although I'm still blaming myself and wondering if there is anything I could have done different.

I talked to a PND support worker and like she said I am ill, I didn't choose to be like this and I didn't choose to feel the way I did/do. So if it wasn't for formula I think my sons would have eventually lost their mum as I think I would have either had a complete mental breakdown or I would have made an attempt to take my own life. If that is just an 'excuse' to some, if you think I should have tried harder or I should have sought a doctor’s permission to switch to formula then that is your opinion. But I refuse to feel guilty for doing what is best for me and my son, and it is what's best as he would have suffered in the long run emotionally due to me constantly rejecting him and seeing me in tears most of the time.
x

 

[Missy86]

What is the upside of getting rid of formula, I really believe its lack of bf knowledge down the generations that has damaged bf rates

If c sections didnt exist I would be dead and most likely Rhys too so feeding wouldnt have been an issue any way

If you are gonna wipe formula off the earth why not c sections too, its not the natural way after all

 

[SnuggleMum]

What is the upside of getting rid of formula, I really believe its lack of bf knowledge down the generations that has damaged bf rates

If c sections didnt exist I would be dead and most likely Rhys too so feeding wouldnt have been an issue any way

If you are gonna wipe formula off the earth why not c sections too, its not the natural way after all

Like I said in an early post, there would be babies who would suffer, but it is possible that the overall health of the nation would improve. We might see lower rates of allergies, eczema, intolerances. There might be less SIDS, less of certain cancers (in Mums and babies). I don't know if in the developed world, there would be an overall benefit (as in more improvement than there is increased suffering, not that there wouldn't be any suffering). It could be cost to the NHS is lowered, from less illnesses, but there might also be an increased cost from extra breastfeeding support. There would be less formula prescriptions. Impossible to say how it would actually work out though!

If this is a global lack of formula, there would be a bigger impact, I'd have thought. With poor access to clean water, breastfeeding is more important than ever, but unscrupulous formula companeis market directly to these women, and many end up formula feeding when they cannot afford it. There was a famous 'guesstimate' a few years ago, that if the trend to avoid breastfeeding was reversed, we'd prevent 10 million cases of infant malnutrition and diarrhoea. Obviously it is really hard to quantify things like this.

Another factor is that many women do not/are not able to breastfeed for psychological reasons. If breastfeeding was normalised, I think more women would not suffer from this. I'm not saying what they go through is not real, but we would have less women who are unable to breastfeeding in public, if we have all grown up with and are totally comfortable with breastfeeding. Obviously if formula disappeared overnight, there would be suffering, but I think if we just had never had it, there would be less sexualisation of breasts (well, not less, but a better ability as a society to separate the two uses, like we do with Vaginas).

I agree that lack of breastfeeding knowledge down the generations has a massive impact - so many women find they are pregnant and have never seen a woman breastfeed!

 

[SnuggleMum]

With regard to c-sections, again I'm not sure how the balance would work. No-one would argue that there are situations where a c-section is genuinely a life-saving measure. There are, however, situations where it can be avoided. How do you weigh up the death of a small number babies/mothers to the benefits of a high vaginal birth rate? I don't know enough a c-sections to expand any further, but it would be an interesting discussion. I don't think anyone would want them banned though, just a deeper understanding of the factors that affect c-section rates, and the effects of c-sections.

 

[MrsPOP]

With regard to c-sections, again I'm not sure how the balance would work. No-one would argue that there are situations where a c-section is genuinely a life-saving measure. There are, however, situations where it can be avoided. How do you weigh up the death of a small number babies/mothers to the benefits of a high vaginal birth rate? I don't know enough a c-sections to expand any further, but it would be an interesting discussion. I don't think anyone would want them banned though, just a deeper understanding of the factors that affect c-section rates, and the effects of c-sections.

Hmm maybe by asking the mothers whose lives and their babies lives were saved by a C Section? I know my life was saved, I know my baby's life was saved. I find it difficult, insensitive, cruel to think that there are people who wish C Sections didnt exist for the greater good when it was my life and my daughter's life in the balance.

Same with formula, I find the attitude which *some* ladies are saying 'I wish there was no formula' to be very insensitive and cruel. I find most people who say that had either no BF difficulties or had difficulties that they could overcome so they had never been in my shoes or someone similar to me. I always say walk a mile in someone's shoes before you judge them.

 

[SnuggleMum]

How do you weigh up the death of a small number babies/mothers to the benefits of a high vaginal birth rate?.

Hmm maybe by asking the mothers whose lives and their babies lives were saved by a C Section? I know my life was saved, I know my baby's life was saved. I find it difficult, insensitive, cruel to think that there are people who wish C Sections didnt exist for the greater good when it was my life and my daughter's life in the balance.

Same with formula, I find the attitude which *some* ladies are saying 'I wish there was no formula' to be very insensitive and cruel. I find most people who say that had either no BF difficulties or had difficulties that they could overcome so they had never been in my shoes or someone similar to me. I always say walk a mile in someone's shoes before you judge them.

I don't know if you'll find anyone who does wish c-sections didn't exist, in all my time researching natural birth, I've never once come across one, just a lot of folk who think they should be used more responsibly (by the medical profession, not women).

I was speaking mainly from my experience, how I worked out whether to have a c-section or not (and what my threshold was in an emergency) - comparing the low rate of death to the high rate of complications (breastfeeding issues being a major one) was something I did.

I'm beginning to think I'm more of an Utilitarian than I thought!

 

[indy and lara]

At no point is it okay to rationalise the death of a few babies and mummies. None. Perhaps if it was your baby that people were declaring as an acceptable casualty of no formula or sections then you would realise how outrageous a statement you are making.

Why don't we ban baby food jars in order to discourage early weaning, forward facing car seats and so on? You cannot impose your parenting beliefs on someone else. Nor should you.

 

[SnuggleMum]

At no point is it okay to rationalise the death of a few babies and mummies. None. Perhaps if it was your baby that people were declaring as an acceptable casualty of no formula or sections then you would realise how outrageous a statement you are making.

Why don't we ban baby food jars in order to discourage early weaning, forward facing car seats and so on? You cannot impose your parenting beliefs on someone else. Nor should you.

Have I ever said what my parenting beliefs are? This is all hypothetical. I don't see how it is offensive to discuss the 'what ifs' of various situations. Saying there would be x benefit and y suffering isn't declaring someone as an acceptable casualty, just discussing what would happen. Have I said anywhere that I'd support a ban on formula, or I wish there wasn't formula, or that I think overall it'd be better? All I've done is ponder the possibilities of various scenarios - how is that offensive?

 

[Missy86]

My mother said to me a couple of days after having Rhys "you would have died a hundred years ago" and she is right he wouldnt have come out on his own so it wouldnt have been a good outcome

The older generation cannot teach us how to bf or help anymore thats the problem
My mother struggled to bf me and lasted 6 weeks and my MIL didnt try

 

[Ourlittlebump]

I think comparing those that have c-sections to those that use formula is unfair.

C-sections are more often than not opted for as they are potentially life saving not just because they are 'easier' (which they are not by the way!)
I feel that formula on the other hand is chosen by some women as they believe it will be easier than breastfeeding. Which, yes it may be but bringing up our children should come down to what is best for them not what is easiest!

I think other ladies are correct in saying that education is the key to a higher breastfeeding rate. There's not enough information or support out there by any means. We also need to make breastfeeding more normal! I can't remember the last time I saw anyone breastfeeding in public without a cover. I also can't remember the last time I breastfed in public without a cover without someone making a nasty remark.

I don't think formula should be given in hospitals (unless it is completely necessary...for the babies health etc.). It is far too accessible to desperately tired mums who are easily swayed from their breastfeeding intentions by uneducated midwives and nurses.
Perhaps if the option of formula wasn't so readily available more women would be forced to at least give it a go! And most importantly babies would be getting all that lovely colostrum!!

Women choose formula for the wrong reasons. I think that's why it sparks up so much debate. I have heard many 'reasons' for my friends choosing not to even attempt breastfeeding...
1. I want my life back
2. I want him/her to have a relationship with their Dad
3. I would feel weird letting him/her suck my boob
4. I don't want saggy boobs.
This is what annoys me about formula.
On the other hand I have complete respect for all formula feeding ladies out there who gave breastfeeding a try or simply couldn't feed their LOs. We have to remember that while it is rare some women simply can not breastfeed.

I don't think there's any answer to this debate. We all love our children and I think that that is the only thing that matters