What If There Was No Formula?

[Missy86]

I don't know I think it's a fair comparison, I have used formula and had a c section btw

 

[Ourlittlebump]

But how can you compare a feeding choice to a life saving one?
The choice of live or die compared to boob or bottle is a little different in my book.

 

[Missy86]

Yes but if there was no formula babies would die, if they cant latch or there is no milk for them by other means

 

[Ourlittlebump]

I said exactly that in my post

I agree...but this is VERY VERY rare. Plus, a lot of ladies say they couldn't BF because their LO wouldn't latch. Why don't they pump...this way the baby would still be getting the best start in life.
My LO wouldn't latch after a c-section. She was showing no interest at all and became dehydrated....at this point I was luck enough to have an amazing midwife who sat with me sucking up the tiny amount of colostrum I managed to hand express from my breasts. It was painful...but I did it for Isobelle. I could easily have been a 'my baby wouldnt latch' lady but there's ways around it.

As for there being no milk available. This is even more rare.
Plus, let's be honest. Formula is used out of choice far more often than it is to save a life. C-section on the other hand is used 99% of the time to save a life and is hardly ever out of choice.

 

[lovie]

my mum gave me unpastrised goats milk as a night time feed as i was a very hungry baby.. im not sure if a baby would survive on goats milk alone, but it was ok for me along side breast milk.

i guess if there was no formula and the mother was unable to feed then a friend/relative would feed the baby and they would supliment with cow/goat/another animals milk,i really dont think babies would die, sure they might not be getting everything they need but probably enough to survive till an age where they could give them food.

 

[Ourlittlebump]

my mum gave me unpastrised goats milk as a night time feed as i was a very hungry baby.. im not sure if a baby would survive on goats milk alone, but it was ok for me along side breast milk.

i guess if there was no formula and the mother was unable to feed then a friend/relative would feed the baby and they would supliment with cow/goat/another animals milk,i really dont think babies would die, sure they might not be getting everything they need but probably enough to survive till an age where they could give them food.

Exactly! If there was no formula there would be lots of ladies with plenty of boob milk to go around
Most would do perfectly fine without it...although there are those babies with a milk allergy. Formula was invented as a prescription 'medicine/supplement' for exactly this! I think it's been used as a money making scheme ever since.

 

[MrsPOP]

I said exactly that in my post

I agree...but this is VERY VERY rare. Plus, a lot of ladies say they couldn't BF because their LO wouldn't latch. Why don't they pump...this way the baby would still be getting the best start in life.
My LO wouldn't latch after a c-section. She was showing no interest at all and became dehydrated....at this point I was luck enough to have an amazing midwife who sat with me sucking up the tiny amount of colostrum I managed to hand express from my breasts. It was painful...but I did it for Isobelle. I could easily have been a 'my baby wouldnt latch' lady but there's ways around it.

As for there being no milk available. This is even more rare.
Plus, let's be honest. Formula is used out of choice far more often than it is to save a life. C-section on the other hand is used 99% of the time to save a life and is hardly ever out of choice.

Goodness me!!!

Ok so I did pump. I pumped pumped pumped because I 'wanted to give my baby the best start' as you say.

I hand expressed colostrum and I pumped religiously. My little girl refused my EBM, yet guzzled the formula. So what then?

I think you'll find a lot of the 'my baby wouldn't latch' ladies actually DID pump

exclusively pumping is an extremely difficult job to do. Some women do this and I think they deserve a medal as I tried it but drove myself to a nervous breakdown doing it and also trying to relactate for 18 bloody weeks.

Walk a mile in a mummy's shows before you judge them. Yes I know you hand expressed colostrum and your LO wouldnt latch for a bit but I think you've only walked a yard in the 'baby wont latch' shoes.

 

[lovie]

I think giving your baby the best start in life is by being a loving attentive mummy, and if you are stressed and puming all the time that wont leave much time for the baby.. every mummy gives their baby the best start in life based on their own situation

 

[Ourlittlebump]

I said exactly that in my post

I agree...but this is VERY VERY rare. Plus, a lot of ladies say they couldn't BF because their LO wouldn't latch. Why don't they pump...this way the baby would still be getting the best start in life.
My LO wouldn't latch after a c-section. She was showing no interest at all and became dehydrated....at this point I was luck enough to have an amazing midwife who sat with me sucking up the tiny amount of colostrum I managed to hand express from my breasts. It was painful...but I did it for Isobelle. I could easily have been a 'my baby wouldnt latch' lady but there's ways around it.

As for there being no milk available. This is even more rare.
Plus, let's be honest. Formula is used out of choice far more often than it is to save a life. C-section on the other hand is used 99% of the time to save a life and is hardly ever out of choice.

Goodness me!!!

Ok so I did pump. I pumped pumped pumped because I 'wanted to give my baby the best start' as you say.

I hand expressed colostrum and I pumped religiously. My little girl refused my EBM, yet guzzled the formula. So what then?

I think you'll find a lot of the 'my baby wouldn't latch' ladies actually DID pump

exclusively pumping is an extremely difficult job to do. Some women do this and I think they deserve a medal as I tried it but drove myself to a nervous breakdown doing it and also trying to relactate for 18 bloody weeks.

Walk a mile in a mummy's shows before you judge them. Yes I know you hand expressed colostrum and your LO wouldnt latch for a bit but I think you've only walked a yard in the 'baby wont latch' shoes.

Good for you. You tried and that's the point i'm getting at! Some women give up too easily. You are not one of them.
Why are you quoting me on 'giving babies the best start' as if it's not true or judgmental? Don't you believe that breastmilk is best?

As for 'so what then?' ... then you would give formula, as you did. Which is perfectly fine and very much needed.
I can imagine it's a very hard job, as breastfeeding is equally as hard...if not a lot harder as you have the pain to deal with too. Especially is you had a C-section too like I did.

I'm not judging. At all! I think you're perhaps just being a little sensitive as you struggled so much?
I've only walked a yard? Seriously? You don't know my story at all. My baby would not latch for weeks. I was constantly in and out of hospital with her to see lactation consultants etc etc etc. I only mastered breastfeeding and got her to latch on easily at 14 weeks old. Is that classed as a mile?
Maybe you should have walked a mile in a struggling BF mummies shoes...is doesn't sound so nice when it's pointed at you does it?

 

[SnuggleMum]

I think giving your baby the best start in life is by being a loving attentive mummy, and if you are stressed and puming all the time that wont leave much time for the baby.. every mummy gives their baby the best start in life based on their own situation

I don't want to be too finicky and I get what you are saying, but we have to be careful not to go the other way. No one supported me pumping, because I was stressed, exhausted and unhappy. Everyone told me to stop, that I was being selfish to continue and that 'happy mum = happy baby'. Yes, we shouldn't judge those who pump for shorter periods, those who pump for long periods or anything inbetween. No one should be told they did wrong. I know you didn't say that, but I was often told that. I hated everyone implying I didn't have enough time for my baby, because I spent 7+ hours a day pumping.

 

[lovie]

I think giving your baby the best start in life is by being a loving attentive mummy, and if you are stressed and puming all the time that wont leave much time for the baby.. every mummy gives their baby the best start in life based on their own situation

I don't want to be too finicky and I get what you are saying, but we have to be careful not to go the other way. No one supported me pumping, because I was stressed, exhausted and unhappy. Everyone told me to stop, that I was being selfish to continue and that 'happy mum = happy baby'. Yes, we shouldn't judge those who pump for shorter periods, those who pump for long periods or anything inbetween. No one should be told they did wrong. I know you didn't say that, but I was often told that. I hated everyone implying I didn't have enough time for my baby, because I spent 7+ hours a day pumping.

I didnt mean that at all hun, i guess it depends alot on your baby and if you have a sleepy baby you have alot more time but if you have a baby that doesnt sleep so much it would be harder, also im sure it depends alot on what help you have at home from dad and friends/family. What i really ment is that a very large majority of women make their choices for what is best for their baby in their own situation so there isnt only one "best start in life"

 

[Quackquack99]

Personally I don't understand why people are only fixated on formula. Surely drinking milk is only a small portion of a baby/childs life? I know plenty of people who bf their babies but yet fed their children really unhealthy food.

I didn't bf and I won't disclose my reason because it is not up to anyone else to decide if it is valid or a good excuse. Fact it, without formula many babies would die or milk bank companies will form and will in turn probably make more than formula companies. This in essence will exploit vulnerable women in terms of cost because they want their baby to survive.

 

[MrsPOP]

I said exactly that in my post

I agree...but this is VERY VERY rare. Plus, a lot of ladies say they couldn't BF because their LO wouldn't latch. Why don't they pump...this way the baby would still be getting the best start in life.
My LO wouldn't latch after a c-section. She was showing no interest at all and became dehydrated....at this point I was luck enough to have an amazing midwife who sat with me sucking up the tiny amount of colostrum I managed to hand express from my breasts. It was painful...but I did it for Isobelle. I could easily have been a 'my baby wouldnt latch' lady but there's ways around it.

As for there being no milk available. This is even more rare.
Plus, let's be honest. Formula is used out of choice far more often than it is to save a life. C-section on the other hand is used 99% of the time to save a life and is hardly ever out of choice.

Goodness me!!!

Ok so I did pump. I pumped pumped pumped because I 'wanted to give my baby the best start' as you say.

I hand expressed colostrum and I pumped religiously. My little girl refused my EBM, yet guzzled the formula. So what then?

I think you'll find a lot of the 'my baby wouldn't latch' ladies actually DID pump

exclusively pumping is an extremely difficult job to do. Some women do this and I think they deserve a medal as I tried it but drove myself to a nervous breakdown doing it and also trying to relactate for 18 bloody weeks.

Walk a mile in a mummy's shows before you judge them. Yes I know you hand expressed colostrum and your LO wouldnt latch for a bit but I think you've only walked a yard in the 'baby wont latch' shoes.

Good for you.You tried and that's the point i'm getting at! Some women give up too easily. You are not one of them.
Why are you quoting me on 'giving babies the best start' as if it's not true or judgmental? Don't you believe that breastmilk is best?

As for 'so what then?' ... then you would give formula, as you did. Which is perfectly fine and very much needed.
I can imagine it's a very hard job, as breastfeeding is equally as hard...if not a lot harder as you have the pain to deal with too. Especially is you had a C-section too like I did.

I'm not judging. At all! I think you're perhaps just being a little sensitive as you struggled so much?
I've only walked a yard? Seriously? You don't know my story at all. My baby would not latch for weeks. I was constantly in and out of hospital with her to see lactation consultants etc etc etc. I only mastered breastfeeding and got her to latch on easily at 14 weeks old. Is that classed as a mile?
Maybe you should have walked a mile in a struggling BF mummies shoes...is doesn't sound so nice when it's pointed at you does it?

BIB1: Thankyou

BIB2: no I don't think BM is the best start in life. It is the best source of nutrition for a baby but I believe the best start for a baby is being born to a loving and caring mother (and father).

BIB3: it isn't a competition of which is harder failing to bf vs BFing with pain. But if you want ti make it one...You dealt with physical pain. You succeeded with the physical pain. I dealt with the emotional pain and failed. I think I'd rather deal with the physical pain personally.

BIB4: Yes I am sensitive about what happened to me. It doesn't make my feelings less valid because they come from a place of emotional trauma or pain. I am an advocate for people who struggle to come to terms with BF failure.

BIB5: in that case please pass me your shoes! It doesn't bother me if you point that at me at all because at the end of the Day whilst I respect and admire mums who manage to BF through adversity I would have LOVED to have walked the mile on your shoes because I would have achieved what I wanted with all my heart at the end of that mile, to BF. You struggled and won, I struggled and lost...I know who I would rather have been in that situation.

I'm surprised you would say quite disparingly (although context can be mistake on the Internet but that is how I interpreted it) 'well why don't these women pump then?' (which you applied to 'my baby didn't Latch' mummies, not people who don't bother to BF) after you had struggled so much. Good for you that you got through it but surely there were points in time, ever so fleetingly that you wanted to give up and I would have thought you would be more sympathetic considering you have walked ok, maybe 3 quarters of a mile in a 'my baby wouldnt latch' type of footwear.

It's that last quarter of a mile though that is the most painful and lonely on the path to giving up/failing. I would happily take 14 weeks of painful breastfeeding and multiple hospital visits over that

 

[Missy86]

Personally I don't understand why people are only fixated on formula. Surely drinking milk is only a small portion of a baby/childs life? I know plenty of people who bf their babies but yet fed their children really unhealthy food.

I didn't bf and I won't disclose my reason because it is not up to anyone else to decide if it is valid or a good excuse. Fact it, without formula many babies would die or milk bank companies will form and will in turn probably make more than formula companies. This in essence will exploit vulnerable women in terms of cost because they want their baby to survive.

These are very good points

 

[Ourlittlebump]

I said exactly that in my post

I agree...but this is VERY VERY rare. Plus, a lot of ladies say they couldn't BF because their LO wouldn't latch. Why don't they pump...this way the baby would still be getting the best start in life.
My LO wouldn't latch after a c-section. She was showing no interest at all and became dehydrated....at this point I was luck enough to have an amazing midwife who sat with me sucking up the tiny amount of colostrum I managed to hand express from my breasts. It was painful...but I did it for Isobelle. I could easily have been a 'my baby wouldnt latch' lady but there's ways around it.

As for there being no milk available. This is even more rare.
Plus, let's be honest. Formula is used out of choice far more often than it is to save a life. C-section on the other hand is used 99% of the time to save a life and is hardly ever out of choice.

Goodness me!!!

Ok so I did pump. I pumped pumped pumped because I 'wanted to give my baby the best start' as you say.

I hand expressed colostrum and I pumped religiously. My little girl refused my EBM, yet guzzled the formula. So what then?

I think you'll find a lot of the 'my baby wouldn't latch' ladies actually DID pump

exclusively pumping is an extremely difficult job to do. Some women do this and I think they deserve a medal as I tried it but drove myself to a nervous breakdown doing it and also trying to relactate for 18 bloody weeks.

Walk a mile in a mummy's shows before you judge them. Yes I know you hand expressed colostrum and your LO wouldnt latch for a bit but I think you've only walked a yard in the 'baby wont latch' shoes.

Good for you.You tried and that's the point i'm getting at! Some women give up too easily. You are not one of them.
Why are you quoting me on 'giving babies the best start' as if it's not true or judgmental? Don't you believe that breastmilk is best?

As for 'so what then?' ... then you would give formula, as you did. Which is perfectly fine and very much needed.
I can imagine it's a very hard job, as breastfeeding is equally as hard...if not a lot harder as you have the pain to deal with too. Especially is you had a C-section too like I did.

I'm not judging. At all! I think you're perhaps just being a little sensitive as you struggled so much?
I've only walked a yard? Seriously? You don't know my story at all. My baby would not latch for weeks. I was constantly in and out of hospital with her to see lactation consultants etc etc etc. I only mastered breastfeeding and got her to latch on easily at 14 weeks old. Is that classed as a mile?
Maybe you should have walked a mile in a struggling BF mummies shoes...is doesn't sound so nice when it's pointed at you does it?

BIB1: Thankyou

BIB2: no I don't think BM is the best start in life. It is the best source of nutrition for a baby but I believe the best start for a baby is being born to a loving and caring mother (and father).

BIB3: it isn't a competition of which is harder failing to bf vs BFing with pain. But if you want ti make it one...You dealt with physical pain. You succeeded with the physical pain. I dealt with the emotional pain and failed. I think I'd rather deal with the physical pain personally.

BIB4: Yes I am sensitive about what happened to me. It doesn't make my feelings less valid because they come from a place of emotional trauma or pain. I am an advocate for people who struggle to come to terms with BF failure.

BIB5: in that case please pass me your shoes! It doesn't bother me if you point that at me at all because at the end of the Day whilst I respect and admire mums who manage to BF through adversity I would have LOVED to have walked the mile on your shoes because I would have achieved what I wanted with all my heart at the end of that mile, to BF. You struggled and won, I struggled and lost...I know who I would rather have been in that situation.

I'm surprised you would say quite disparingly (although context can be mistake on the Internet but that is how I interpreted it) 'well why don't these women pump then?' (which you applied to 'my baby didn't Latch' mummies, not people who don't bother to BF) after you had struggled so much. Good for you that you got through it but surely there were points in time, ever so fleetingly that you wanted to give up and I would have thought you would be more sympathetic considering you have walked ok, maybe 3 quarters of a mile in a 'my baby wouldnt latch' type of footwear.

It's that last quarter of a mile though that is the most painful and lonely on the path to giving up/failing. I would happily take 14 weeks of painful breastfeeding and multiple hospital visits over that

I think you're making me out to be an ogre for no reason at all. If you go back and read y original post you'll see that I don't disagree with formula - I believe it is very much needed in certain situations such as your own.
Please don't offend me by saying that 14 Weeks of struggling caused only physical trauma. It was very emotional and a very difficult time on my life that I will not forget.
I was talking about mums that choose formula and not bothering to try and pump. And those mums only, not you or any other variation of the story you can come up with to make me look shitty for what I said.

You say I only walked 3/4 of the mile because I succeeded? That's completely unfair. As in life it is harder to succeed than it is to give up or fail as you put it. I could have done what you decided to do (which is perfectly fine) and I came close to doing it but I went the extra mile and continued to push through. Does that not make me worthy of your mile? Perhaps if I told you I had only 2 weeks of struggling and then switched to formula you would say I've walked a mile in 'your shoes'

If you would have loved to have walk in my shoes so you could Breastfeed then that's fair enough and I can understand why. I'm extremely proud of myself for doing so! But please don't make me out to be a formula hating lactavist. While I do feel strongly about Breastfeeding I also have respect for those that use formula...for the right reasons.

The best start in life for a baby is indee a loving family (again read my original post). However, this thread is about nutrition. Breast is best and no matter how anyone tries to twist it they will never prove otherwise.

There is no answer to this thread. We all know it. But it has gone off topic from what the original posted asked. 'what would happen without formula?'
The answer...everyone would breastfeed. Those that couldn't get their baby to latch would find another way such as expressing. Those with no milk would have their babies fed by family members.
Breastfeeding would be the norm and people like myself could for once enjoy feeding in public without judgement.
A Breastfeeding mums 'mile' doesn't end when she succeeds it continues due to the constant struggle with society and people looks and nasty comments. We continue to struggle emotionally constantly feeling torn between feeding our babies and possibly offending the narrow minded public.

 

[MrsPOP]

I said exactly that in my post

I agree...but this is VERY VERY rare. Plus, a lot of ladies say they couldn't BF because their LO wouldn't latch. Why don't they pump...this way the baby would still be getting the best start in life.
My LO wouldn't latch after a c-section. She was showing no interest at all and became dehydrated....at this point I was luck enough to have an amazing midwife who sat with me sucking up the tiny amount of colostrum I managed to hand express from my breasts. It was painful...but I did it for Isobelle. I could easily have been a 'my baby wouldnt latch' lady but there's ways around it.

As for there being no milk available. This is even more rare.
Plus, let's be honest. Formula is used out of choice far more often than it is to save a life. C-section on the other hand is used 99% of the time to save a life and is hardly ever out of choice.

Goodness me!!!

Ok so I did pump. I pumped pumped pumped because I 'wanted to give my baby the best start' as you say.

I hand expressed colostrum and I pumped religiously. My little girl refused my EBM, yet guzzled the formula. So what then?

I think you'll find a lot of the 'my baby wouldn't latch' ladies actually DID pump

exclusively pumping is an extremely difficult job to do. Some women do this and I think they deserve a medal as I tried it but drove myself to a nervous breakdown doing it and also trying to relactate for 18 bloody weeks.

Walk a mile in a mummy's shows before you judge them. Yes I know you hand expressed colostrum and your LO wouldnt latch for a bit but I think you've only walked a yard in the 'baby wont latch' shoes.

Good for you.You tried and that's the point i'm getting at! Some women give up too easily. You are not one of them.
Why are you quoting me on 'giving babies the best start' as if it's not true or judgmental? Don't you believe that breastmilk is best?

As for 'so what then?' ... then you would give formula, as you did. Which is perfectly fine and very much needed.
I can imagine it's a very hard job, as breastfeeding is equally as hard...if not a lot harder as you have the pain to deal with too. Especially is you had a C-section too like I did.

I'm not judging. At all! I think you're perhaps just being a little sensitive as you struggled so much?
I've only walked a yard? Seriously? You don't know my story at all. My baby would not latch for weeks. I was constantly in and out of hospital with her to see lactation consultants etc etc etc. I only mastered breastfeeding and got her to latch on easily at 14 weeks old. Is that classed as a mile?
Maybe you should have walked a mile in a struggling BF mummies shoes...is doesn't sound so nice when it's pointed at you does it?

BIB1: Thankyou

BIB2: no I don't think BM is the best start in life. It is the best source of nutrition for a baby but I believe the best start for a baby is being born to a loving and caring mother (and father).

BIB3: it isn't a competition of which is harder failing to bf vs BFing with pain. But if you want ti make it one...You dealt with physical pain. You succeeded with the physical pain. I dealt with the emotional pain and failed. I think I'd rather deal with the physical pain personally.

BIB4: Yes I am sensitive about what happened to me. It doesn't make my feelings less valid because they come from a place of emotional trauma or pain. I am an advocate for people who struggle to come to terms with BF failure.

BIB5: in that case please pass me your shoes! It doesn't bother me if you point that at me at all because at the end of the Day whilst I respect and admire mums who manage to BF through adversity I would have LOVED to have walked the mile on your shoes because I would have achieved what I wanted with all my heart at the end of that mile, to BF. You struggled and won, I struggled and lost...I know who I would rather have been in that situation.

I'm surprised you would say quite disparingly (although context can be mistake on the Internet but that is how I interpreted it) 'well why don't these women pump then?' (which you applied to 'my baby didn't Latch' mummies, not people who don't bother to BF) after you had struggled so much. Good for you that you got through it but surely there were points in time, ever so fleetingly that you wanted to give up and I would have thought you would be more sympathetic considering you have walked ok, maybe 3 quarters of a mile in a 'my baby wouldnt latch' type of footwear.

It's that last quarter of a mile though that is the most painful and lonely on the path to giving up/failing. I would happily take 14 weeks of painful breastfeeding and multiple hospital visits over that

I think you're making me out to be an ogre for no reason at all. If you go back and read y original post you'll see that I don't disagree with formula - I believe it is very much needed in certain situations such as your own.
Please don't offend me by saying that 14 Weeks of struggling caused only physical trauma. It was very emotional and a very difficult time on my life that I will not forget.
I was talking about mums that choose formula and not bothering to try and pump. And those mums only, not you or any other variation of the story you can come up with to make me look shitty for what I said.

You say I only walked 3/4 of the mile because I succeeded? That's completely unfair. As in life it is harder to succeed than it is to give up or fail as you put it. I could have done what you decided to do (which is perfectly fine) and I came close to doing it but I went the extra mile and continued to push through. Does that not make me worthy of your mile? Perhaps if I told you I had only 2 weeks of struggling and then switched to formula you would say I've walked a mile in 'your shoes'

If you would have loved to have walk in my shoes so you could Breastfeed then that's fair enough and I can understand why. I'm extremely proud of myself for doing so! But please don't make me out to be a formula hating lactavist. While I do feel strongly about Breastfeeding I also have respect for those that use formula...for the right reasons.

The best start in life for a baby is indee a loving family (again read my original post). However, this thread is about nutrition. Breast is best and no matter how anyone tries to twist it they will never prove otherwise.

There is no answer to this thread. We all know it. But it has gone off topic from what the original posted asked. 'what would happen without formula?'
The answer...everyone would breastfeed. Those that couldn't get their baby to latch would find another way such as expressing. Those with no milk would have their babies fed by family members.
Breastfeeding would be the norm and people like myself could for once enjoy feeding in public without judgement.
A Breastfeeding mums 'mile' doesn't end when she succeeds it continues due to the constant struggle with society and people looks and nasty comments. We continue to struggle emotionally constantly feeling torn between feeding our babies and possibly offending the narrow minded public.

I'm not making you out to be a lactivists or an ogre. I've challenged you on what you have said just have you have challenged me (where you called me sensitive), this is the news and debates section after all where people challenge each other's opinions.

The thread has gone off on multiple tangents. You asked why people didnt pump, I gave you my story of I did pump and lots of other ladies did. Don't ask the question if you don't like the answer. You implied 'my baby didn't latch' mummies were lazy in your original post. You say you were taking about mums who don't bother originally, it didn't seem that way to me hence why I challenged you. I'm also not trying to make you feel shitty, I think perhaps you are feeling sensitive too

Yes I would say you had walked the mile if you had given up after 2 weeks because you would have completed that harrowing journey I did. Instead you took a different turn, one that ended in a positive way. Yes you should be damn proud of yourself, it's brilliant you succeeded and I'm not dismissing you went through hell but you succeeded and that is why I said you didn't walk the mile in MY shoes. You walked in DIFFERENT and much more successful pair. I'll never change my opinion that I would rather have gone down your journey than your own. You went through hell and succeeded, I went through hell and failed. You have no idea of the emotional hell that stays with you due to BF failure. No idea.

I'm sorry that you feel offended that I said BF causes only physical pain. You offended my with your 'well why didn't the 'my baby didn't latch' mummies pump then... and also 'its much harder to succeed than be a failure' which I disagree with in *some* respects and certainly disagree with in BF vs BF failure. I dont think one is harder than the other, they are different however you are not left with the long term psychological damage of BF failure and I would argue that is harder in this circumstance. As I said before, I'm surprised about your attitude towards 'my baby didn't latch' mummies having been through what you went through. You mightnt think you werent but you came across quite disparaging in your original post. You may feel I'm being over sensitive but as I said before my feelings are not invalidated due to that.

I'm not trying to twist anything. I do think 'breast is the best nutrition', IMO I believe it isn't the best START in life. My opinion, just as you have your own. I felt that way when I was pregnant and stupidly thought BF would work out.

I've never seen people being horrible about BFing in real life but I do sympathise. It was one of the things I was looking forward to the most, NIP. However nothing will change that I would have much rather be the BF mummy dealing with judgement than the failure FF mummy dealing with judgement.

As always, gotta love the BF vs FF debate :tired:

 

[Missy86]

None of my family have had babies for many years, how would they have helped me

I also like the point of milk banks becoming big business, that could very well happen

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

I said exactly that in my post

I agree...but this is VERY VERY rare. Plus, a lot of ladies say they couldn't BF because their LO wouldn't latch. Why don't they pump...this way the baby would still be getting the best start in life.
My LO wouldn't latch after a c-section. She was showing no interest at all and became dehydrated....at this point I was luck enough to have an amazing midwife who sat with me sucking up the tiny amount of colostrum I managed to hand express from my breasts. It was painful...but I did it for Isobelle. I could easily have been a 'my baby wouldnt latch' lady but there's ways around it.

As for there being no milk available. This is even more rare.
Plus, let's be honest. Formula is used out of choice far more often than it is to save a life. C-section on the other hand is used 99% of the time to save a life and is hardly ever out of choice.

Goodness me!!!

Ok so I did pump. I pumped pumped pumped because I 'wanted to give my baby the best start' as you say.

I hand expressed colostrum and I pumped religiously. My little girl refused my EBM, yet guzzled the formula. So what then?

I think you'll find a lot of the 'my baby wouldn't latch' ladies actually DID pump

exclusively pumping is an extremely difficult job to do. Some women do this and I think they deserve a medal as I tried it but drove myself to a nervous breakdown doing it and also trying to relactate for 18 bloody weeks.

Walk a mile in a mummy's shows before you judge them. Yes I know you hand expressed colostrum and your LO wouldnt latch for a bit but I think you've only walked a yard in the 'baby wont latch' shoes.

Good for you.You tried and that's the point i'm getting at! Some women give up too easily. You are not one of them.
Why are you quoting me on 'giving babies the best start' as if it's not true or judgmental? Don't you believe that breastmilk is best?

As for 'so what then?' ... then you would give formula, as you did. Which is perfectly fine and very much needed.
I can imagine it's a very hard job, as breastfeeding is equally as hard...if not a lot harder as you have the pain to deal with too. Especially is you had a C-section too like I did.

I'm not judging. At all! I think you're perhaps just being a little sensitive as you struggled so much?
I've only walked a yard? Seriously? You don't know my story at all. My baby would not latch for weeks. I was constantly in and out of hospital with her to see lactation consultants etc etc etc. I only mastered breastfeeding and got her to latch on easily at 14 weeks old. Is that classed as a mile?
Maybe you should have walked a mile in a struggling BF mummies shoes...is doesn't sound so nice when it's pointed at you does it?

BIB1: Thankyou

BIB2: no I don't think BM is the best start in life. It is the best source of nutrition for a baby but I believe the best start for a baby is being born to a loving and caring mother (and father).

BIB3: it isn't a competition of which is harder failing to bf vs BFing with pain. But if you want ti make it one...You dealt with physical pain. You succeeded with the physical pain. I dealt with the emotional pain and failed. I think I'd rather deal with the physical pain personally.

BIB4: Yes I am sensitive about what happened to me. It doesn't make my feelings less valid because they come from a place of emotional trauma or pain. I am an advocate for people who struggle to come to terms with BF failure.

BIB5: in that case please pass me your shoes! It doesn't bother me if you point that at me at all because at the end of the Day whilst I respect and admire mums who manage to BF through adversity I would have LOVED to have walked the mile on your shoes because I would have achieved what I wanted with all my heart at the end of that mile, to BF. You struggled and won, I struggled and lost...I know who I would rather have been in that situation.

I'm surprised you would say quite disparingly (although context can be mistake on the Internet but that is how I interpreted it) 'well why don't these women pump then?' (which you applied to 'my baby didn't Latch' mummies, not people who don't bother to BF) after you had struggled so much. Good for you that you got through it but surely there were points in time, ever so fleetingly that you wanted to give up and I would have thought you would be more sympathetic considering you have walked ok, maybe 3 quarters of a mile in a 'my baby wouldnt latch' type of footwear.

It's that last quarter of a mile though that is the most painful and lonely on the path to giving up/failing. I would happily take 14 weeks of painful breastfeeding and multiple hospital visits over that

100 % agree with everything you have said

I tried to pump because I thought someone else feeding him may take away that anxiety of feeding him but when I pumped I barely got anything I think in about 30 minutes I managed to pump 1/2 and ounce, with a 3 year old and a newborn pumping was never going to work because I simply didn't have the time to sit there and do it. So like MrsPOP said it isn't that simple

I think its bad that some people see the world and the people within it in such a black and white way. When I first began BFing Oliver (inititally it went well) I didn't sit there and judge all women that FF because I knew excatly what it was like to try and 'fail' and I knew that most of them would have wanted to suceed more than anything. Why as mothers do we thnk it is acceptable to judge someone doing the best for THEIR child? It completely baffles me tbh x

 

[Ourlittlebump]

The only answer to the original thread is that...
everyone would breastfeed. Those that were unable would have their babies fed by others. If this wasn't possible babies would die. It would all come down to natures away of evolution...survival of the fittest.
Formula is very much needed...but also very VERY abused.

I have equal respect for formula and breastfeeding mothers. However, I have less respect for those that chose to use formula for no reason (never even attempted breastfeeding).
That's just my opinion.

 

[MrsPOP]

I have the same amount of respect for BFers as I do FFers as I do those who exclusively pump, I felt that way before I was pregnant, during pregnancy and after having my daughter.

What I don't respect is the close-minded people who judge mothers for whichever feeding methods they choose. I dislike people who think BFers are wrong as much as I dislike people who think ladies who don't even try to BF are wrong.

Formula cannot be 'abused'. It's not illegal to decide to FF. I believe every woman should give BF a go but I have no problem if they choose not to because it's their decision and thank goodness they are at least feeding their babies.

I was thinking about would I let another woman nurse my daughter. Tbh I don't think I would. I would happily accept donor milk that had been screened and I am angry with my hospital that they didn't offer it to me.